Mon Jan 31 15:49:54 CST 2000
Since noone has yet taken a bite at this one, I will.
The Soros quote below lacks tact, perhaps, saying international institutions
ought to pull aid because it doesn't influence events.
Of course, the only reason to give is to influence events in one way or
another -- whether that influence is political or affecting the lives of
individual people directly. That is, one wouldn't take an action unless
they expect that action to have a consequence.
International aid to Russia has not been positive. At best it has been
squandered. At worst it has forestalled necessary reforms.
We know more than we often admit about what makes economies better off. We
know LESS than we often admit HOW to make economies better off. It's the
difference between know THAT and know HOW.
Russia needs institutions of civil society that respect the rule of law,
private property, etc. We do not have the slightest clue how to create
those. They have to come indigenously. What they do NOT need are loans.
What they do NOT need is to continually churn the printing press.
We'd be better off walking away from the aid and not causing any more
damage.. and not trying to influence them. And why provoke their hatred,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Team Topic Debating in America [mailto:EDEBATE at LIST.UVM.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Michael Bear Bryant
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 5:38 PM
> To: EDEBATE at LIST.UVM.EDU
> Subject: Soros' Goals
> Controversial UDL sponsor, George Soros, has been accused of bringing down
> the British economy in the early 1990's and the Malaysian economy
> of the late
> 1990's with his sudden pull-out recommendations for pension-fund
> I'm wondering how gar the policy debate community is willing to
> go to condemn
> his new recommendation that IMF economic stability funds be denied the new
> transition government in Russia.
> Soros: IMF Should Not Help Russia
> Jan. 30 DAVOS, Switzerland (AP) - U.S. financier George Soros
> said today that
> the International Monetary Fund should pull out of Russia in view of the
> current political climate there. Foreign institutions and investors ``have
> lost the ability to influence the direction of events'' in Russia, said
> Soros, chairman of the influential Soros Fund Management, during a news
> conference at the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos. Soros
> pointed to the
> conflict in the breakaway republic of Chechnya as a worrying sign.
> Recognizing the potential for provocation,
>From Mon Jan 31 14:07:29 2000
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:07:29 -0800
Reply-To: Sue_Lowrie at CAPGROUP.COM
To: Team Topic Debating in America <EDEBATE at LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Sue Lowrie <Sue_Lowrie at CAPGROUP.COM>
Subject: Re: My FINAL post on myn/nonmyn
Comments: To: DARREN ELLIOTT <elliottdarren at HOTMAIL.COM>
Darren and respondent:
I will make this short and sweet, but I will tell you as someone included on
Darren's list (and feeling incredibly honored by it) that this type of list does
a number of things:
It recognizes that although this activity may have some male-bias, it has a
strong and supportive circle of women and men who help a long list of women
achieve what they are capable of achieving.
It highlights to the community that we have been successful at fostering,
listening to and responding to the voices of women.
It points out that our sometimes seemingly lonely struggles are not so lonely
It inspires me to continue to be concerned and to try to follow in the rather
large footsteps of women like Carrie and Glenda and Laura...
It also makes me reflect on all of the women and men who have given me
support, love and encouragement during both the good and the bad times...
In doing all this, you may not see it achieving anything by your
standards...but, it isn't really your standards that Darren is trying to achieve
by. I think he's aiming a little higher...he's aiming to achieve the standards
of respect and admiration and appreciation that mean so much to people like
me...So, thanks Darren...and I'd like to add a couple of names to the list
(sorry if I'm being repetitive, but I don't think I saw these names):
Jan Hovden, Gina Lane, Leigh Farstfeedth (spelling? sorry!), and Tracy Gonos...
DARREN ELLIOTT <elliottdarren at HOTMAIL.COM> on 01/31/2000 12:33:30 PM
Please respond to DARREN ELLIOTT <elliottdarren at HOTMAIL.COM>
To: EDEBATE at LIST.UVM.EDU
cc: (bcc: Sue Lowrie/COMM/CRMC/CAPITAL)
Subject: Re: My FINAL post on myn/nonmyn
Answer the args or concede the debate, idiot. Haefele's comment on your IQ
pretty much sums it up. As for calling me out however,
>People like Darren prove my point. what is this shiznit about posting a
>list of women every time gene sends a message? what good is that going to
>accomplish? what if i post a list of men every time a female (is that word
>offensive to since its etymological classification defines females in a
>binary opposition to males?) posts something to the list? WHAT THE FUCK IS
>THAT GOING TO ACCOMPLISH??
First, you need someone like me to prove your point because your arguments
suck. Second, Inundating the stupid with the truth will hopefully help them
see the light. Constant exposure to the truth, and eventually the people
will come around. The point of my list and my argument you failed to answer
is simple-womyn in this activity have had to climb a lot higher hill then
the men, so their accomplishments do/should stand out. Post your list of
men-still a non-answer. Besides hopefully if I clog your account with the
names of womyn in this activity you'll shut the hell up and go away.
>some of you people are so fucking stupid and so caught up in your futile
>little wars to convert the world you fucking lose site of what the fuck is
>really going on in the world. theres more important things, and better ways
>of solving problems than doing stupid shit like this.
We're stupid? That's a good one, and credible. You're the jackass saying
narratives, poems, etc. is bullshit and accomplishes nothing. You're dead
wrong. After re-reading them last night I feel compelled to make sure the
struggle of womyn in this activity is highlighted in the hopes of equality
some glorious day. Maybe you will never understand. Maybe you will. But
some in the middle may have been brought around to the realization that the
womyn in our activity for too long have been silenced. It's ime they are
heard. And you cannot deny how impressive the list is that I've
thanks for reading,
Asst. Debate Coach Wichita State University
>I love you, you love me, we're a happy family,
>Leroy Tyrone Hiroshima
>"Will Not Giveup Halfway, Will Always Support Faye"
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