Bush speaking double out of his piehole

[Jennifer Dixon]

If you want to check out the specifics behind the bill George W. signed into 
law, the address under which you can examine the Texas statute is:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/cqcgi?CQ_SESSION_KEY=XIOHZNVCNITV&CQ_QUERY_HANDLE=123993&CQ_CUR_DOCUMENT=1&CQ_TLO_DOC_TEXT=YES

It says absolutely NOTHING about punch-card ballots.  It refers to paper 
ballots ONLY throughout the entire document.  Ambiguous, yes...  proof of 
hypocrisy, no.

Jen
Wyoming


>From: "Jim Hanson" <hansonjb at whitman.edu>
>To: <edebate at ndtceda.com>
>Subject: RE: Bush speaking double out of his piehole
>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:18:24 -0800
>
>two things:
>
>1. i agree; if gore gets to do a hand count in the four counties; bush gets
>to do hand counts in other counties; it should be done throughout the 
>state;
>and the 72 hour rule should be waived.
>
>2. bush did sign the bill with punch cards in mind.
>http://foxnews.com/election_night/111100/trail_111100.sml
>Responding at a late afternoon press conference, former Secretary of State
>Warren Christopher, representing Gore's campaign, criticized the move and
>called on the Republicans to drop the suit.
>"If Gov. Bush truly believes that he has won the election in Florida, he
>should not have any reason to fear having the machine count checked by a
>hand count," Christopher said.
>He added that contrary to his stance today, Bush signed a law as Texas
>governor that hand recounts are the preferred method for settling punch 
>card
>disputes.
>----------------
>
>the bottom line to all of this is: the punch cards are shockingly 
>inaccurate
>representations of people's voting. from what i've been reading, they are
>typically off by 2% unless hand counted because the tabs don't completely
>fall out.
>
>jim hanson :)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jennifer Dixon [mailto:piratepookiebear at hotmail.com]
>Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 5:18 PM
>To: edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: RE: Bush speaking double out of his piehole
>
>
>I would agree that Bush is being hypocritical, IF there were a handcount
>mandated across the entire state of Florida.  Since only a few precincts
>were chosen for this handcount by the Gore campaign (these precincts are
>considered to be Deomcratic strongholds), it really isn't fair to the
>Republicans.  This action was not initiated until the time period for which
>the Bush campaign could have requested handcounts in other counties
>(Considered to be staunchly Republican) had expired.  How is that fair?
>There were 22,000 disqualified ballots in one county in the panhandle that
>overwhelmingly voted for George W.--but they can no longer delve into the
>possibility that there may be additional votes for him.
>
>Also, with election officials examining dsiqualified ballots to determine
>the voters intentions, it appears to be a very subjective procedure.  When
>the Deomcratic and Republican representatives disagree on what they believe
>the ballots indicate, they are sent to the county elections panel 
>(comprised
>mainly of deomcrats in these counties) to determine the voter's intent.
>
>Also, just out of curiousity, does anybody know if Bush signed the bill
>regarding handcounts with the hole-punch system in mind?  I don't like the
>man, and I certainly don't want him to be President, but are the facts 
>being
>misrepresented here?
>
>If I were Bush, I'd filed for an injuction, too.  You can bet your ass Gore
>would do the same given the circumstances were reversed.
>
>Jen
>Wyoming
>
> >From: "Jim Hanson" <hansonjb at whitman.edu>
> >To: "STEVE CLEMMONS" <debatecoach at usa.net>, <edebate at ndtceda.com>
> >Subject: RE: Bush speaking double out of his piehole
> >Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:37:16 -0800
> >
> >additional argument:
> >
> >george bush signed into law in texas in 1997 that hand count votes will
> >take
> >preference over machine counts (cnn news, today).
> >
> >this is the height of hypocrisy.
> >
> >bush has made a very, very bad move by turning using the courts to stop a
> >hand count.
> >
> >jim hanson
> >whitman college
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: STEVE CLEMMONS [mailto:debatecoach at usa.net]
> >Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 7:33 AM
> >To: edebate at ndtceda.com
> >Subject: Bush speaking double out of his piehole
> >
> >
> >I have to admit, I am getting REAL tired of the party line, Gore should
> >step
> >down for the good of the country.  Could somebody, any body tell me about
> >the
> >impending Constitutional Crisis.  That is being bandied around like it 
>was
> >Nuclear War.  So What if the election isn't certified, what is the big
> >deal?
> >I don't want to get off the rant that I am about to begin, but last I
> >looked,
> >the Constitition was a f'ed up document to begin with that we have tried 
>to
> >improve over the years.  That is tanatmount to making a shit sandwich, 
>and
> >then getting out the Grey Poupon.  So, if this calls into question the
> >constitution, then so be it.
> >
> >The real purpose is to hopefully expose the double standard the bush
> >campaign
> >is trying to feed the people.  They are considering an injunction to hand
> >counting votes, when that is EXACTLY how Bush "picked" up some votes (98 
>to
> >be
> >exact) in Seminole County, a heavy Republican county.
> >"As you are aware heavily Republican Seminole County Florida was the last
> >to
> >finish its mandatory recount. The margin was down to about 229 and 
>Seminole
> >County votes added another 98 (net) to Bush. The reason for Seminole
> >County's
> >delay is that they voluntarily provided the complete recount, including
> >rejected ballots, sought in Palm Beach etc. Yesterday Afternoon local TV
> >news
> >carried pictures and an interview with a member of the Seminole County
> >election board (Supervisor of Elections?) and local Republican 
>congressman
> >John Mica who was present and interviewed. They were running each
> >individual
> >ballot through the voting machines. ANY BALLOT THE MACHINE REJECTED WAS
> >THEN
> >EXAMINED BY HAND, AND IF THE "WILL OF THE VOTER" COULD BE DETERMINED. 
>THEY
> >PREPARED A NEW BALLOT TO REPLACE THE ORIGINAL REJECTED BALLOT AND ADDED
> >THIS
> >NEWLY CREATED BALLOT TO THE COUNT. Naturally in a county Bush carried
> >almost
> >2-1 this resulted in a net increase of Bush votes. Now in the Republican
> >Seminole County Florida, under the leadership of Congressman John Mica
> >(R-Fla)
> >acting on behalf of Bush.. The rejected votes were examined and added to
> >the
> >official totals. If the Bush camp thinks that it is proper to examine by
> >hand
> >the rejected votes in Republican Seminole County Florida, and to 
>substitute
> >new ballots for those rejected, how can this possibly be proper when done
> >in
> >Seminole County Florida and then be improper when done in Palm Beach 
>County
> >Florida?
> >
> >here is the link to the news story
> >http://www.channel6000.com/sh/election2000/florida/stories/election200-flor
>i
> >da-20001109-112839.html
> >
> >So, when I hear that for the good of the country line, I still just get
> >ill.
> >Especially after the justifaction for that line depends on an impassioned
> >defense of democracy, which in a more strict democracy, then popular vote
> >would have decided the election. (Socail Contract theory proves)
> >
> >Steve
> >Mac Debate
> >
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> >
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