Bush speaking double out of his piehole
Sat Nov 11 21:58:30 CST 2000
If you want to check out the specifics behind the bill George W. signed into
law, the address under which you can examine the Texas statute is:
It says absolutely NOTHING about punch-card ballots. It refers to paper
ballots ONLY throughout the entire document. Ambiguous, yes... proof of
>From: "Jim Hanson" <hansonjb at whitman.edu>
>To: <edebate at ndtceda.com>
>Subject: RE: Bush speaking double out of his piehole
>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:18:24 -0800
>1. i agree; if gore gets to do a hand count in the four counties; bush gets
>to do hand counts in other counties; it should be done throughout the
>and the 72 hour rule should be waived.
>2. bush did sign the bill with punch cards in mind.
>Responding at a late afternoon press conference, former Secretary of State
>Warren Christopher, representing Gore's campaign, criticized the move and
>called on the Republicans to drop the suit.
>"If Gov. Bush truly believes that he has won the election in Florida, he
>should not have any reason to fear having the machine count checked by a
>hand count," Christopher said.
>He added that contrary to his stance today, Bush signed a law as Texas
>governor that hand recounts are the preferred method for settling punch
>the bottom line to all of this is: the punch cards are shockingly
>representations of people's voting. from what i've been reading, they are
>typically off by 2% unless hand counted because the tabs don't completely
>jim hanson :)
>From: Jennifer Dixon [mailto:piratepookiebear at hotmail.com]
>Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 5:18 PM
>To: edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: RE: Bush speaking double out of his piehole
>I would agree that Bush is being hypocritical, IF there were a handcount
>mandated across the entire state of Florida. Since only a few precincts
>were chosen for this handcount by the Gore campaign (these precincts are
>considered to be Deomcratic strongholds), it really isn't fair to the
>Republicans. This action was not initiated until the time period for which
>the Bush campaign could have requested handcounts in other counties
>(Considered to be staunchly Republican) had expired. How is that fair?
>There were 22,000 disqualified ballots in one county in the panhandle that
>overwhelmingly voted for George W.--but they can no longer delve into the
>possibility that there may be additional votes for him.
>Also, with election officials examining dsiqualified ballots to determine
>the voters intentions, it appears to be a very subjective procedure. When
>the Deomcratic and Republican representatives disagree on what they believe
>the ballots indicate, they are sent to the county elections panel
>mainly of deomcrats in these counties) to determine the voter's intent.
>Also, just out of curiousity, does anybody know if Bush signed the bill
>regarding handcounts with the hole-punch system in mind? I don't like the
>man, and I certainly don't want him to be President, but are the facts
>If I were Bush, I'd filed for an injuction, too. You can bet your ass Gore
>would do the same given the circumstances were reversed.
> >From: "Jim Hanson" <hansonjb at whitman.edu>
> >To: "STEVE CLEMMONS" <debatecoach at usa.net>, <edebate at ndtceda.com>
> >Subject: RE: Bush speaking double out of his piehole
> >Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:37:16 -0800
> >additional argument:
> >george bush signed into law in texas in 1997 that hand count votes will
> >preference over machine counts (cnn news, today).
> >this is the height of hypocrisy.
> >bush has made a very, very bad move by turning using the courts to stop a
> >hand count.
> >jim hanson
> >whitman college
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: STEVE CLEMMONS [mailto:debatecoach at usa.net]
> >Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 7:33 AM
> >To: edebate at ndtceda.com
> >Subject: Bush speaking double out of his piehole
> >I have to admit, I am getting REAL tired of the party line, Gore should
> >down for the good of the country. Could somebody, any body tell me about
> >impending Constitutional Crisis. That is being bandied around like it
> >Nuclear War. So What if the election isn't certified, what is the big
> >I don't want to get off the rant that I am about to begin, but last I
> >the Constitition was a f'ed up document to begin with that we have tried
> >improve over the years. That is tanatmount to making a shit sandwich,
> >then getting out the Grey Poupon. So, if this calls into question the
> >constitution, then so be it.
> >The real purpose is to hopefully expose the double standard the bush
> >is trying to feed the people. They are considering an injunction to hand
> >counting votes, when that is EXACTLY how Bush "picked" up some votes (98
> >exact) in Seminole County, a heavy Republican county.
> >"As you are aware heavily Republican Seminole County Florida was the last
> >finish its mandatory recount. The margin was down to about 229 and
> >County votes added another 98 (net) to Bush. The reason for Seminole
> >delay is that they voluntarily provided the complete recount, including
> >rejected ballots, sought in Palm Beach etc. Yesterday Afternoon local TV
> >carried pictures and an interview with a member of the Seminole County
> >election board (Supervisor of Elections?) and local Republican
> >John Mica who was present and interviewed. They were running each
> >ballot through the voting machines. ANY BALLOT THE MACHINE REJECTED WAS
> >EXAMINED BY HAND, AND IF THE "WILL OF THE VOTER" COULD BE DETERMINED.
> >PREPARED A NEW BALLOT TO REPLACE THE ORIGINAL REJECTED BALLOT AND ADDED
> >NEWLY CREATED BALLOT TO THE COUNT. Naturally in a county Bush carried
> >2-1 this resulted in a net increase of Bush votes. Now in the Republican
> >Seminole County Florida, under the leadership of Congressman John Mica
> >acting on behalf of Bush.. The rejected votes were examined and added to
> >official totals. If the Bush camp thinks that it is proper to examine by
> >the rejected votes in Republican Seminole County Florida, and to
> >new ballots for those rejected, how can this possibly be proper when done
> >Seminole County Florida and then be improper when done in Palm Beach
> >here is the link to the news story
> >So, when I hear that for the good of the country line, I still just get
> >Especially after the justifaction for that line depends on an impassioned
> >defense of democracy, which in a more strict democracy, then popular vote
> >would have decided the election. (Socail Contract theory proves)
> >Mac Debate
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