debate separatism and the Women's round robin

[T.J. X]

No, I have only learned from the history that the Europeans told me would
work. How dare you compare the intent of an African to remedy and preserve
their culture that was stolen from them to the intentional and racist
segregation to prevent the pollution of a pure race. You are an example of
the need for separation. You try to make a moral issue for the oppressed to
learn, understand, and approve of the actions and terms of equality of the
oppressor. As for history, maybe you should study how Africans in America
have separated values and can code switch to live with Europeans and explain
how I have to live two lives so you can have you social harmony. Don't
assume that your post and the reading of mine is anything more than your
misperception of what you want to see and you not having to be marked by a
skin that society has normatively defined as deviant and evil, you have
ABSOLUTELY no right to tell me how to eliminate, perceive and live with the
issues of racism and my exclusion of a single conciousness, because you
don't want the American dream to fall. Oh, my great-grandmother was
Cherokee, does that earn me a cookie for double oppression.

Kyta


>From: MWBRYANT at aol.com
>To: kyta_swan at hotmail.com
>CC: edebate at list.uvm.edu
>Subject: Re: debate separatism and the Women's round robin
>Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:17:34 EDT
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>From MWBRYANT at aol.com Wed Aug 30 10:18:39 2000
>Message-ID: <57.a9a679c.26de9bae at aol.com>
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>
>In a message dated 8/30/00 9:45:09 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
>kyta_swan at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
> > regardless, if SC wants an all women's round robin, do it. If it splits
>the
> >  community so what. It is already split and covered in the guise of
>cultural
> >  superiority and stylistic vitiation of African groups and others
>anyway.
> >  Just becuase the integrationist motive of the Europeans are not
>satisfied,
> >  does not mean the intent and instrumentalism of debate go away.  it
>simply
> >  conforms to the specific subject (the female) and presents an new
>meaning
>in
> >  their environment (the community they establish).
> >
>
>It just seems very ironic that you end up supporting the advocacy of the
>most
>odious racists. The neo-Nazis in the USENET newsgroups argue that they're
>not
>really racists, because they intend no harm to African-Americans. The
>neo-Nazis claim they only want the blacks to stop pushing integration and
>seek their own schools, churches and independent culture. They want the
>blacks to get out of their communities and establish independent
>communities.
>
>I think that any reasonable person has the ability to envision the
>consequences of the social Balkanization inherent to the philosophies of
>identity separatism. Don't we learn anything from history?
>
>I'm over half Cherokee, so be careful in essentializing my arguments as the
>propaganda of a European male.
>
>Bear

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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:24:31 EDT
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To: Team Topic Debating in America <EDEBATE at LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Michael Bear Bryant <MWBRYANT at AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: debate separatism and the Women's round robin
Comments: To: kyta_swan at hotmail.com

In a message dated 9/5/00 2:06:11 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
kyta_swan at hotmail.com writes:

> No, I have only learned from the history that the Europeans told me would
>  work. How dare you compare the intent of an African to remedy and preserve
>  their culture that was stolen from them to the intentional and racist
>  segregation to prevent the pollution of a pure race. You are an example of
>  the need for separation. You try to make a moral issue for the oppressed
to
>  learn, understand, and approve of the actions and terms of equality of the
>  oppressor. As for history, maybe you should study how Africans in America
>  have separated values and can code switch to live with Europeans and
explain
>
>  how I have to live two lives so you can have you social harmony. Don't
>  assume that your post and the reading of mine is anything more than your
>  misperception of what you want to see and you not having to be marked by a
>  skin that society has normatively defined as deviant and evil, you have
>  ABSOLUTELY no right to tell me how to eliminate, perceive and live with
the
>  issues of racism and my exclusion of a single conciousness, because you
>  don't want the American dream to fall. Oh, my great-grandmother was
>  Cherokee, does that earn me a cookie for double oppression.
>

I suggest you raise yourself above the hatred of separatism. Maybe if you
could raise yourself above the sole consciousness you PERCEIVE you might
realize that you play directly into the hands of real racists by requesting
the same ends - separate communities. Your use of the lexicon of critical
language does little to dispell my sincere beliefs that you are, indeed, a
racist. Whatever your skin color, separatism is the voice of the past and
cannot be returned to without the payment of a far more heinous situation
than the one that brought you to your present despair.

I am not impressed with the kind of social balkanization philosophies you
share with the neo-Nazis.

The fact that you choose to mock my Cherokee ancestry gives me little reason
to respect the stupidity you preach.

As I reject the Nazis, I reject your thinly disguised counter-racism.

Bryant