[eDebate] Speaker Points
Wed Nov 28 15:06:39 CST 2001
I think I pretty much attended the same school as Josh. I'm willing to go
on the record and say POOR speeches get 26s. You really have to work for a
25, but IM not opposed to pulling that trigger on a combination of rudeness
combined with poor ability. Which happens in JV with too much frequency of
27-27.5 is where most average debaters end in my book. Speeches that are
techinically proficicient with some strategic debating get 28s, persuasion
and strategy get you beyond 28 into 28.5s up to 29s, I rarely give 30s.
I've sat in on more than one round this year, or heard my teams talk about
how they can't figure out how so and so gets good points. I mean Ive
watched rounds where I would say, oh thats a 28, or not much better than
average, and I see 29.5s handed out.
Maybe the more speeches you see the less they appear amazing :)
So I'll ally myself with Josh, I think point inflation is rampant and
although I've only had a few debaters ask me about speaker points, I think
lots of folks are jsut politicking for speaker awards. Its important to get
that type of attention for 1st round bids, copeland awards, who you mutually
prefer, etc. Which if you don't think happens, then you coach differently
than me :)
We are human after all...
Back to listening to 80s music, yep, thats the school I like!
>From: "Joshua Hoe" <ifjxh at hotmail.com>
>To: lacyjp at wfu.edu, jason at regnier.com
>CC: eDebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: Re: [eDebate] Speaker Points
>Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:09:49
>I have to amit lately the speaker point issue has been troubling for me. I
>firmly believe that point-inflation is so rampant that it no longer is
>meaningful to distinguish between speakers in a round based on points.
>Twice recently I have had people I really like confront me over relatively
>low-points and both times I have had the same answer, basically:
>1). Not all of your speeches are equal in value. If I have heard you give
>speech that is a 28.5 and then the next time I judge you your speech does
>not meet that standard how in the world can I let you know that without
>lowering your points?
>2). Not all speeches are 28s or above. Just because every single first
>judge in the USA thinks theywill pariahs if they use the 27s does not mean
>you always give 28 or better speeches.
>3). There should be something special about getting a 29 and something
>otherworldly about getting a 30. A 30 should be for the best speech you
>ever gave not for every other speech.
>4). When, for instance, a UNT speaker was 22nd at Wake but tied for 11th
>there may be something a little skewed in point land.
>I guess the most illustrative example I can think of was a discussion I had
>with a debater who will remain nameless who asked why I did not give
>high points like everyone else did. I replied that the style that debater
>used was more intended to emphasize her/his advantage in technical ability
>instead of emphasizing persuasion and speaking and that the cost of that
>strategy of speaking was lower points. To me, a great speaker would never
>put me in a situation where I had to read every card in a debate to make
>Now that I have firmly placed myself both in the old school and at the
>reaches of the strike sheet :) I will go back to tournament administration
>Joshua B. Hoe
>University of North Texas
>>From: Jean Paul Lacy <lacyjp at wfu.edu>
>>To: Jason Regnier <jason at regnier.com>
>>CC: eDebate at ndtceda.com
>>Subject: Re: [eDebate] Speaker Points
>>Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:06:33 -0500 (EST)
>>Sounds like Wake is going to get great points from you, since none of our
>>cards make our arguments.
>>(at least the cards I cut)
>>On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Jason Regnier wrote:
>> > > 27.5: Above average (Hard to get above this if your best argument has
>> > > be made by your partner during your speech or you need to rely on a
>> > > boom-box to make your argument for you-deal with the format like
>> > > everyone else has to)
>> > I agree. But i'd like to extend this sentiment. When I start judging
>> > the future, I will only give 27.5 to anybody who needs to rely on cards
>> > make their argument for them.
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