[eDebate] KCC on NPR
Wed Jun 8 19:07:58 CDT 2005
I'm pretty sure that its like Kansas which is they can't travel more than 500 miles from the
border. They can also get some exceptions for that ... I think. Don't quote me on it.
--- Paul Johnson <paulj567 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> my question is about missouri- isnt it that
> missourians cant travel out of state because the state
> wont sanction interstate competition?
> --- Bob Jordan <bobjordan at debatecoach.info> wrote:
> > I thought the story was very well done and it is
> > probably the best
> > explanation this old dog has heard for this type of
> > argumentation. There are
> > a couple of things I am unclear about a former
> > debater, Missouri resident,
> > and father of a current high school debate
> > participant.
> > I understand that your students come from a
> > disadvantaged area, but I am
> > curious how your program is disadvantaged. It sounds
> > like you travel far
> > more extensively than any program in Southwest
> > Missouri and you are playing
> > with the kids on the national circuit. You certainly
> > have a level of
> > privilege that we don't. The high school programs in
> > our area are huge, but
> > travel to tournaments in this area of the state
> > except for a few times per
> > year. You could travel to a tournament in Missouri
> > every single weekend and
> > debate in a time warp. No counterplans, no critical
> > argumentation, no
> > peformance, etc. It's not turn of the century, but
> > then again minorities and
> > women wouldn't have been able to participate at the
> > turn of the century.
> > Would you feel compelled to take the same
> > argumentative stance if you came
> > down to the Ozarks to debate?
> > Bob Jordan
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: edebate-admin at ndtceda.com
> > [mailto:edebate-admin at ndtceda.com] On Behalf
> > Of Joe Miller
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:33 AM
> > To: gordonm+ at pitt.edu
> > Cc: edebate at ndtceda.com; gordonm at pitt.edu
> > Subject: Re: [eDebate] KCC on NPR
> > I forwarded this e-mail to Sylvia. She worked very
> > hard on the story.
> > I'm sure she'll be thrilled bythe compliment.
> > Answers interspersed:
> > On 6/8/05, gordonm+ at pitt.edu <gordonm+ at pitt.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi folks.
> > >
> > > 23 minutes listening to this will be some of your
> > best-spent time of the
> > summer:
> > >
> > >
> > > TICLE_ID=780072
> > >
> > > This piece is reported superbly by NPR journalist
> > Sylvia Maria Gross - see
> > http://www.prx.org/user/sylviamariagross - it also
> > breaks new ground in the
> > ongoing conversation regarding the "Louisville
> > Project."
> > >
> > > * It hints at Joe Miller's book in progress - Joe,
> > what can we expect?
> > It's narrative nonfiction. I followed the KCC squad
> > through the
> > 2002-2003 season, in which they battled
> > unsuccessfully with the Missouri
> > State High School Activities Association for
> > permission to compete at TOC
> > and then finished tenth at NFL nats. This main story
> > will digress into other
> > stories, such as the history of KC's nationally
> > significant deseg case
> > (college fans might like to know that it'll have
> > biographical set pieces
> > about Ede Warner, Daryl Burch, Bill Shanahan and
> > Rashad Evans). By book's
> > end, however, I become part of the story as an
> > assistant coach of the squad
> > (most of this will be handled in the epilogue). It
> > will be published in fall
> > '06 by Farrar, Straus & Giroux.
> > >
> > > * It gives a teaser at the end regarding Kansas
> > City Central's choice to
> > forego the TOC and instead collaborate with MBA in a
> > public debate project -
> > what happened there?
> > >
> > I now regret this decision. After a late-season
> > tournament in Chicago, we
> > agreed to pass on applying for an at-large invite to
> > TOC. We were frustrated
> > by the Chicago tournament -- not because we didn't
> > break, but because we
> > were facing the same arguments over and over again
> > and they were being
> > delivered quite pissily. This was something we only
> > experienced at Chicago
> > tournaments and at U of Kentucky's tournament in
> > December -- in Iowa,
> > Nebraska and Tennessee we faced interesting and
> > thoughtful counter-arguments
> > and, win or lose, we felt like we were learning and
> > growing. So we decided
> > to not spend time and money on something that we
> > worried would be of dubious
> > value (Plus one high school coach told us the TOC is
> > totally uptight and not
> > a lot of fun).
> > Later, a number of friends we've made along the way
> > argued convincingly that
> > we should reconsider. But by then it was too late.
> > Next year perhaps.
> > > * It provides a forum for the argument that
> > Louisville-type arguments are
> > "closer to the original intent of the activity."
> > This is a new twist I
> > haven't heard much in college - can we get some
> > elaboration?
> > >
> > I'm probably going to get in trouble trying to
> > answer this in such a short
> > space. Geoffery's argument relates to the metaphor
> > KCC was offering this
> > year -- that the UN is debate. Both are places where
> > a diverse group of
> > people can come together to talk about how to make
> > the world a better place.
> > The choice of words "original intent" might be a bit
> > dicy -- the UN's
> > orignal intent is very clearly stated in its
> > charter, while debate's is less
> > certain. Perhaps a better way to say it would be
> > "potential ideal."
> > Regardless, we argued that both the UN and debate
> > have drifted from their
> > original intent by way of exclusionary norms -- the
> > highly specialized and
> > peculiar style of national-circuit debate and the
> > veto/permanent-member
> > structure of the UN Security Council, the only body
> > authorized to decide on
> > binding policy.
> > In more esoteric terms, we're really into the idea
> > of debate being more like
> > it used to be -- an integral part of a free society,
> > as opposed to a
> > shrinking subculture. By season's end we were
> > realizing that the mission
> > wasn't so much about providing opportunities for the
> > underprivileged as it
> > was about saving the privileged from their own
> > self-destruction. Setting
> > aside for a moment the inequalities of a bygone era,
> > we wish that we could
> > go back to the turn of the century (and from there
> > back another 5,000
> > years), when students would debate one another and
> > the events would draw
> > huge crowds and would become front-page news. Now
> > that's agency! It seems
> > to me that this is something America could really
> > use right now, even if
> > it's horribly naive to believe it might actually
> > happen. But... Louisville
> > has been getting a lot of press, and now we've
> > gotten a little, so, who
> > knows?
> > From my perspective as a shiboleth-spouting newbie,
> > all these diversity
> > initiatives -- from the UDLs to the UofL -- are
> > basically saving the life of
> > this dying game, which just so happens to be vital
> > to Western democracy.
> > > Made me think. I wonder if Jacob Levensen will top
> > this hard act to
> > follow.
> > >
> > > Remember that Thomas Frank debated at Shawnee
> > Mission East?
> > > http://www.ndtceda.com/archives/200505/0146.html
> > >
> > > I'm going to try and update him.
> > >
> > > * * *
> === message truncated ===
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