From zompetti  Thu Sep  1 00:53:46 2005
From: zompetti (zompetti at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:53:46 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Midwest Programs Only
Message-ID: <8C77CD0A72A39D6-FE0-693C@FWM-D32.sysops.aol.com>

Would any of you be interested (or could tentatively commit) to attending a tournament hosted by Illinois State, Friday January 27 - Sunday, January 29?
 
We'd offer n, jv, o if entries warrant (although I'm guessing probably just novice and open).  The tournament would probably be low-budget to keep costs down, but there are lots of friendly folks here and (surprisingly) a lot of good restaurants here -- hey, why do you think I moved here?
 
Just gauging interest.  Please let me know as soon as you can.
 
Thanks,
zomp
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/6ee1319f/attachment.htm 


From debate  Thu Sep  1 09:31:55 2005
From: debate (debate at ou.edu)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:31:55 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Need round coverage for UNI...
Message-ID: <5f0bfd88b0f.4316ca8b@ou.edu>

Hello,

I have 4 teams and 1 judge for UNI.

I need to hire out 8 rounds of debate.  Is there anyone out there with extra rounds?

Peace,

Jackie





From ewarner  Thu Sep  1 10:07:28 2005
From: ewarner (Ede Warner)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:07:28 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] west point tourney?
Message-ID: <s316e104.041@gwise.louisville.edu>

Is there one?  Somebody let me know...




From debate  Thu Sep  1 11:11:41 2005
From: debate (debate at ou.edu)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:11:41 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Talking heads are failing us......
Message-ID: <62a23f2f6c33.4316e1ed@ou.edu>

In case you have not noticed........

The racial divide amongst New Orleans survivors.  I am not talking about those who died and those who lived. I am talking about those who are left in the city stranded vs. those who manged to escape.

Why is it that most of the people they show stranded in New Orleans are black?  You see very few light skinned people stuck at the superdome or the convention center, or on top of their houses.  The privileged divide has obviously reared its head.

Those who did not have cars, waiting on their pay checks, all they had was the food in their shelves, these seem to be the people left in New Orleans, those who did not have the fiscal privilege to leave.

"The bus drivers were scared!"   What is this?  Busses are lined up ready to take people out, but not going in.
How long do they wait?

I am sorry, but hearing acronyms and the titles of the people who people have talked to has gone on long enough.  If all of the talking heads would get buisy and quit doing media interviews and work on coordinating the removal of people from the area, lives might be saved.

To claim the people are lawless and then showing images of mostly black people upset because they are dyeing, labeling it as lawlessness --- disgusting.  

How about food drops or water drops or something?

How long will people wait before these people are saved?

Is it lawlessness, or are people starving and attempting to survive?

Obviously elected officials have failed to help the people in most distress.

Bush will tour?  Why dont he use all of that personnel to rescue instead of guard his tour?

Disgusted by our modern day political spectacle.


Jackie
\

Example --  A meeting with ALan greenspan is set up by Bush -- we see where the priorities are........................




From dave  Thu Sep  1 14:24:39 2005
From: dave (David L. Steinberg)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:24:39 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] [Fwd: Emergency housing drive at www.hurricanehousing.org.  Pass it
 on.]
Message-ID: <43175577.1000301@miami.edu>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Emergency housing drive at www.hurricanehousing.org. Pass it on.
Date: 	Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:18:54 -0700
From: 	Noah T. Winer, MoveOn.org Civic Action <moveon-help at list.moveon.org>
To: 	David L. Steinberg <dave at miami.edu>



Do you have a spare room, bed or couch to offer a family fleeing 
hurricane Katrina?

<http://www.hurricanehousing.org?id=5947-2808266-rkDEKWEkngfutxTutdr4Ew>

Please forward this message to anyone in the Southeast who can help.

Dear MoveOn member,

Hurricane Katrina's toll on communities, homes and lives has devastated 
the nation. Now victims must face the daunting question of where to go 
next--and we can help.

Tens of thousands of newly homeless families are being bused to a 
stadium in Houston, where they may wait for weeks or months. At least 
80,000 are competing for area shelters, and countless more are in 
motels, cars, or wherever they can stay out of the elements. The Federal 
Emergency Management Agency and the Red Cross are scrambling to find 
shelter for the displaced.

This morning, we've launched an emergency national housing drive to 
connect your empty beds with hurricane victims who desperately need a 
place to wait out the storm. You can post your offer of housing (a spare 
room, extra bed, even a decent couch) and search for available housing 
online at:

http://www.hurricanehousing.org 
<http://www.hurricanehousing.org?id=5947-2808266-rkDEKWEkngfutxTutdr4Ew>

Housing is most urgently needed within reasonable driving distance 
(about 300 miles) of the affected areas in the Southeast, especially New 
Orleans.

Please forward this message to anyone you know in the region who might 
be able to help.

But no matter where you live, your housing could still make a world of 
difference to a person or family in need, so please offer what you can.

The process is simple:

# You can sign up to become a host by posting a description of whatever 
housing you have available, along with contact information. You can 
change or remove your offer at any time.
# Hurricane victims, local and national relief organizations, friends and 
relatives can search the site for housing. We'll do everything we can to 
get your offers where they are needed most. Many shelters actually 
already have Internet access, but folks without 'net access can still 
make use of the site through case workers and family members.
# Hurricane victims or relief agencies will contact hosts and together 
decide if it's a good match and make the necessary travel arrangements. 
The host's address is not released until a particular match is agreed on.

If hosting doesn't work for you, please consider donating to the Red 
Cross to help with the enormous tasks of rescue and recovery. You can 
give online at:

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=859

As progressives, we share a core belief that we are all in this 
together, and today is an important chance to put that idea to work. 
There are thousands of families who have just lost everything and need a 
place to stay dry. Let's do what we can to help.

http://www.hurricanehousing.org 
<http://www.hurricanehousing.org?id=5947-2808266-rkDEKWEkngfutxTutdr4Ew>

Thanks for being there when it matters most.

--Noah Winer and the whole MoveOn.org Civic Action Team
  Thursday, September 1st, 2005

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subscription Management:
This is a message from MoveOn.org Civic Action. To change your email 
address, update your contact info, or remove yourself (David L. 
Steinberg) from this list, please visit our subscription management page at:
http://moveon.org/s?i=5947-2808266-rkDEKWEkngfutxTutdr4Ew
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/b00cdd33/attachment.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: buttonclickhere.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 781 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/b00cdd33/attachment.gif 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: o.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 43 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/b00cdd33/attachment-0001.gif 


From debate.gsu  Thu Sep  1 14:31:27 2005
From: debate.gsu (Dr. Joe Bellon)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:31:27 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] GSU Tournament - Entry Notice
Message-ID: <e06af37d050901123178ab22f5@mail.gmail.com>

Given the fact that our hotel block is so oversold, we are beginning
to worry that we don't have enough competition rooms reserved. We
currently have the capacity to host 148 teams (total for all 3
divisions), and can add more rooms if we need to -- but we need to
know how many of y'all are planning to come.

To that end, please take the time to register for the tournament at
the Bruschke web site as soon as you can. We don't mind if the names
of your teams change ten days before the tournament, but we do need to
make sure we're covered in the space department.

Dr. Joe Bellon
Director of Debate
Georgia State University




From scottelliott  Thu Sep  1 14:39:57 2005
From: scottelliott (scottelliott at grandecom.net)
Date: Thu,  1 Sep 2005 14:39:57 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Fair warning
Message-ID: <1125603597.4317590d8f4bf@webmail.grandecom.net>

This was posted by NOAA just three weeks prior to Katrina. You would have
thought that the government, republicans and democrats, state and federal,
would have been a little more prepared for this event.

"Given the forecast of above-normal activity for the
remainder of the season, it is imperative that residents and government
officials in hurricane-vulnerable communities have a hurricane preparedness
plan in place."

Why they are not dropping pallets of bottled water and food at the N.O.
Superdome is byond my comprehension. Seeing children in America dying of thirst
on live television is more than I can stand. WTF is going on in Lousiana.

Scott

btw

We, as individuals, in Houston are not allowed to drive to New Orleans with food
and water. Its been tried already, the state troopers have the interstate
blocked at Gonzales--east of Baton Rouge.


NOAA: August 2005 Update to Atlantic Hurricane Season Outlook
Issued: 2 August 2005

Realtime monitoring of tropical Atlantic conditions
Realtime monitoring of tropical East Pacific conditions


Atlantic Hurricane Outlook & Seasonal Climate Summary Archive



SUMMARY
NOAA is calling for a 95% to 100% chance of an above-normal 2005 Atlantic
hurricane season, according to a consensus of scientists at National Oceanic
and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) Climate Prediction Center (CPC),
Hurricane Research Division (HRD), and National Hurricane Center (NHC). This
forecast reflects NOAA's highest confidence of an above-normal hurricane
season
since their outlooks began in August 1998.

The updated outlook calls for an extremely active season, with an expected
seasonal total of 18-21 tropical storms (mean is 10), with 9-11 becoming
hurricanes (mean is 6), and 5-7 of these becoming major hurricanes (mean is
2-3). The likely range of the ACE index for the season as a whole is
180%-270%
of the median.

The predicted seasonal totals include the considerable activity that has
already
occurred prior to this update (7 tropical storms and 2 major hurricanes).
Therefore, for the remainder of the season, we expect an additional 11-14
tropical storms, with 7-9 becoming hurricanes, and 3-5 of these becoming
major
hurricanes. The expected ACE range during August-November is 110%-200% of
the
median. These very high levels of activity are comparable to those seen
during
August-November 2003 and 2004. Given the forecast that the remainder of the
season will be very active, it is imperative that residents and government
officials in hurricane-vulnerable communities have a hurricane preparedness
plan in place.

The predicted nearly 100% chance of an above-normal season is higher than
the
70% likelihood indicated in NOAA's pre-season outlook issued May 16th. This
increased certainty reflects the fact that the atmospheric and oceanic
conditions favoring hurricane formation that were predicted in May are now
in
place. These conditions, combined with the high levels of activity already
seen, make an above-normal season nearly certain.

DISCUSSION

1. Expected Activity- 95%-100% chance of above normal

The atmospheric and oceanic conditions favoring hurricane formation that
were
predicted in May are now in place. These conditions, combined with the high
levels of activity already seen, make an above-normal season nearly certain
(95% to 100%). There is only a 0%-5% chance of a near-normal season, and a
0%
chance of a below-normal season. (see Background Information for NOAA's
definitions of above-, near-, and below-normal seasons)

An important measure of the total seasonal activity is NOAA's Accumulated
Cyclone Energy (ACE) index, which accounts for the collective intensity and
duration of Atlantic tropical storms and hurricanes during a given hurricane
season. The ACE index is also used to define above-, near-, and below-normal
hurricane seasons. A value of 117% of the median (Median value is 87.5)
corresponds to the lower boundary for an above-normal season.

For the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season the outlook calls for an extremely
active
season, with the seasonal ACE index forecasted to range from 180%-270% of
the
median. This range is above the 175% baseline that Goldenberg et al.
(Science,
2001) use to define a hyperactive season. The outlook also calls for a
seasonal
total of 18-21 tropical storms, with 9-11 becoming hurricanes, and 5-7 of
these
becoming major hurricanes [categories 3-4-5 on the Saffir-Simpson scale].
Because the ACE index does not directly account for the numbers of tropical
storms, hurricanes, and major hurricanes, the predicted ACE range can verify
even if these numbers fall outside their predicted ranges.

This forecast reflects NOAA's highest confidence of an above-normal
hurricane
season since their outlooks began in August 1998. This prediction also
reflects
a continuation of above-normal activity that began in 1995, and will likely
be
the seventh extremely active season since 1995.

Even though there has already been considerable early season activity (7
tropical storms, with two becoming major hurricanes), most of the activity
is
still expected to occur during the climatological peak months of
August-October. Many of the storms during this period will develop from
disturbances moving westward from the west coast of Africa, and will likely
form over the tropical Atlantic Ocean and Caribbean Sea in the region
between
9?N-21.5?N (black box). Historically, tropical storms that first form in
these
areas account for 55% of all hurricanes and 80% of all major hurricanes.
They
also account for nearly the entire difference in hurricanes and major
hurricanes between above-normal and below-normal hurricane seasons.

Tropical storms that form over the tropical Atlantic Ocean generally track
westward toward the Caribbean Islands and/or United States as they
strengthen
into hurricanes, and therefore pose an increased threat to these regions.
Historically, seasons with above-normal levels of overall activity have
averaged 2-3 U.S. hurricane landfalls and 1-2 landfalls in the region around
the Caribbean Sea during August-November.

Although the conditions that produce hurricane landfalls are well known,
they
are often related to the daily weather patterns rather than the seasonal
climate patterns, and are very difficult to predict at these extended
ranges.
As a result, it is currently not possible to confidently predict the number
or
intensity of landfalling hurricanes at these extended ranges, or whether a
given locality will be impacted by a hurricane this season. Nonetheless,
given
the forecast of above-normal activity for the remainder of the season, it is
imperative that residents and government officials in hurricane-vulnerable
communities have a hurricane preparedness plan in place.

2. Expected Climate Conditions - Active multi-decadal signal, above-average
Atlantic Ocean temperatures, exceptionally favorable wind and air pressure
patterns

Beginning with 1995 all of the Atlantic hurricane seasons have been above
normal, with the exception of two El Ni?o years (1997 and 2002). This
contrasts
sharply with the generally below-normal activity observed during the
previous
25-year period 1970-1994 (Goldenberg et al. 2001, Science). Time series of
key
atmospheric wind parameters and Atlantic SSTs highlight the dramatic
differences between these above-normal and below-normal periods. Conditions
were also very conducive for above-normal hurricane seasons during the 1950s
and 1960s, as seen by comparing Atlantic SSTs and seasonal ACE values.

The regional atmospheric circulation features and oceanic conditions causing
these very long-period fluctuations in hurricane activity are linked to the
tropics-wide multi-decadal signal (Bell and Chelliah 2005, Journal of
Climate).
This multi-decadal signal has been very conducive to above-normal hurricane
seasons since 1995, and is the main contributing factor to the above-normal
2005 activity.

The favorable conditions predicted by NOAA in their outlook issued May 16th
are
now in place. These conditions are expected to persist through the peak
August-October months of the season. They include 1) lower surface air
pressure
and exceptionally warm SSTs across the tropical Atlantic and Caribbean Sea,
2)
an amplified subtropical ridge at upper levels across the central and
eastern
North Atlantic, 3) reduced vertical wind shear over the tropical North
Atlantic
and Caribbean Sea, which results from an expanded area of easterly winds in
the
upper atmosphere and weaker easterly trade winds in the lower atmosphere,
and
4) a configuration of the African easterly jet (wavy light blue arrow) that
favors hurricane development from tropical disturbances moving westward from
the African coast.

Of particular relevance to this outlook is that two July tropical systems,
Major
Hurricanes Dennis and Emily, formed over the eastern Caribbean Sea and over
the
central tropical Atlantic (near 10?N), respectively. It is rare for
hurricanes
to develop in these regions during July because the wind patterns are
normally
so unfavorable. The formation of Major Hurricanes Dennis and Emily in these
regions is another indication that favorable conditions are already in place
for a very active season.

Another factor known to significantly impact Atlantic hurricane seasons is
ENSO
(Gray 1984, Monthly Weather Review), with El Ni?o events favoring fewer
hurricanes and La Ni?a events favoring more hurricanes. Based on the most
recent ENSO outlook issued by NOAA's Climate Prediction Center, ENSO-neutral
conditions are expected in the tropical Pacific through October. Therefore,
the
ENSO phenomenon is not expected to impact this hurricane season.

3. Multi-decadal fluctuations in Atlantic hurricane activity

Historically, Atlantic hurricane activity has exhibited very strong
multi-decadal variability, with alternating periods lasting several decades
of
generally above-normal or below-normal activity. These multi-decadal
fluctuations in hurricane activity result nearly entirely from differences
in
the number of hurricanes and major hurricanes forming from tropical storms
first named in the tropical Atlantic and Caribbean Sea.

Hurricane seasons during 1995-2004 have averaged 13.6 tropical storms, 7.8
hurricanes, 3.8 major hurricanes, and with an average ACE index of 159% of
the
median. NOAA classifies all but two of these ten seasons (El Ni?o years of
1997
and 2002) as above normal, and six of these years as hyperactive. If the
2005
season verifies as predicted, it will be the seventh hyperactive season in
the
last 11 years. In contrast, during the preceding 1970-1994 period, hurricane
seasons averaged 9 tropical storms, 5 hurricanes, and 1.5 major hurricanes,
with an average ACE index of only 75% of the median. NOAA classifies twelve
(almost one-half) of these 25 seasons as being below normal, only three as
being above normal (1980, 1988, 1988), and none as being hyperactive.

4. Uncertainties in the Outlook

The main uncertainty in this outlook is the number of landfalling tropical
storms and hurricanes in the United States and the region around the
Caribbean
Sea. Although the conditions that produce hurricane landfalls are well
known,
they are very difficult to predict at these extended ranges because they are
often related to the daily weather patterns rather than the seasonal climate
patterns. It is currently not possible to confidently predict the number or
intensity of landfalling hurricanes at these extended ranges, or whether a
given locality will be impacted by a hurricane this season. Historically,
seasons with above-normal levels of overall activity have averaged 2-3 U.S.
hurricane landfalls and 1-2 landfalls in the region around the Caribbean Sea
during August-November.


Given the forecast of above-normal activity for the
remainder of the season, it is imperative that residents and government
officials in hurricane-vulnerable communities have a hurricane preparedness
plan in place.

FORECASTERS

NOAA's Climate Prediction Center
Dr. Gerald Bell, Meteorologist; Gerry.Bell at noaa.gov
Dr. Muthuvel Chelliah, Physical Scientist; Muthuvel.Chelliah at noaa.gov
Dr. Kingste Mo, Meteorologist; Kingste.Mo at noaa.gov

NOAA's Hurricane Research Division
Stanley Goldenberg, Meteorologist; Stanley.Goldenberg at noaa.gov
Dr. Christopher Landsea, Meteorologist; Chris.Landsea at noaa.gov

NOAA's National Hurricane Center
Eric Blake, Meteorologist; Eric.S.Blake at noaa.gov
Dr. Richard Pasch, Meteorologist; Richard.J.Pasch at noaa.gov







From stannardmatt  Thu Sep  1 15:02:13 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 14:02:13 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] need judging at emporia
Message-ID: <BAY101-F4590830EA7705FC382AC6D2A00@phx.gbl>

Wyoming is looking to hire between 3 and 6 rounds of judging at Emporia.  
We'll pay $25 a round in cash.  Please backchannel if interested.

stannard





From privethedge  Thu Sep  1 15:17:07 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Fair warning
In-Reply-To: <1125603597.4317590d8f4bf@webmail.grandecom.net>
Message-ID: <20050901201707.36444.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com>

HI, Look..I hate to say this - a few years ago I was watching a National Geographic special on superstorms, the nightmare scenario the show covered as a category 5 hurricane hitting New Orleans. The show went through everything that is happening now - it's almost like watching the show in real time.
 
The blame for what happened has to be placed soley on the government of the State and the Feds - the former head of the US Army Corp of Engineers said on TV last evening that they knew the levies would only hold against a category 3, but that the expense of a system that would withstand a category 5 was considered to be to great when held against the risk of a such a storm (thought to be once every 500 years and only then, maybe). They knew..and they said it was too expensive.
 
However - I will say that shooting at rescue helicopters, setting fires, and what not - is out of line. You don't shoot the people coming to save you. If you do, people will not come.
 
And, despite what many of you may think of my politics..I actually think it's morally permissible to loot food and clothing - but TVs? Stereos? No.
 
Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/e0e42e5f/attachment.htm 


From jwpatt00  Thu Sep  1 14:24:57 2005
From: jwpatt00 (JW Patterson)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:24:57 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] FW: Kentucky Henry Clay Revisited
In-Reply-To: <BF3C8885.176F5%jwpatt00@uky.edu>
Message-ID: <BF3CCDC9.17744%jwpatt00@uky.edu>



THIS INVITATION IS BEING RESENT AT THE REQUEST OF SEVERAL COACHES WHO DID
NOT RECEIVE IT IN JULY.

NOTE: NO HIRED JUDGES AVAILABLE FROM KENTUCKY


INVITATION

UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY

36th ANNUAL DEBATE TOURNAMENT

 October 8, 9, & 10 2005
(Saturday, Sunday, & Monday)

 
TOURNAMENT HOTEL: RAMADA INN AND CONFERENCE CENTER: FINALLY ALL BEDROOMS,
MEETING ROOMS, AND LOUNGES ARE NOW EQUIPPED WITH HIGH-SPEED INTERNET!

E-MAIL ENTRIES ONLY TO jwpatt00 at uky.edu; REMEMBER TO PLACE AN ASTERISK BY
ANY TEAM COMPETING FOR THE PRESEASON NOVICE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

A FEE OF $100/TEAM WILL BE ASSESSED FOR ANY DROPS AFTER WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 5
AT 5 P.M.

Dear Director of Forensics:

This is your invitation to the 36th Annual University of Kentucky Collegiate
Debate Tournament on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, October 9, 10, & 11,
2004.  The Tournament will have one division: THE HENRY CLAY DEBATES
(Varsity) plus "THE PRE-SEASON NOVICE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP."

DATES:  Saturday, Sunday, and Monday,  October 8, 9, 10, 2005

FORMAT FOR THE HENRY CLAY DEBATES (VARSITY):  The format will consist of
eight preliminary rounds of switch-side, two-person teams debating the
2005-2006 topic.

         RESERVATIONS FOR ANNA BELL?S

The restaurant is located in downtown Lexington across from the courthouse
on upper street, and features both European and American cuisine.

If you want to dine at "Anna Bell?s" during the Kentucky Tournament, you
should call immediately.  The phone number is (859)-381-0900.  THE
RESTAURANT ALWAYS FILLS  ON WEEKENDS SO PLEASE MAKE RESERVATIONS EARLY.

        RESERVATIONS FOR HOLLY HILL INN

Ouita Papka, her husband Chris, and Roger Solt have opened a restaurant in
Midway, Kentucky. They are open Wednesday through Saturday evening and
Sunday for brunch. The food is superb.  Ouita changes the menu frequently
with creative dishes.  Call 859-846-4732 for reservations.  Let them know
you're with the debate tournament.  Please inquire at the registration desk
for directions to the Holly Hill Inn.

SWEET SIXTEEN

Should we have approximately the same  number of teams as last year, we will
employ a special format to arrive at the "Sweet Sixteen."  Team 9-24 (or a
smaller number) may debate in a run-off on Monday morning to determine the
magic number of sixteen.  Obviously, 1-8 would sit out during this round.
This format still enables us to have all "out" rounds at the Ramada Hotel
Deluxe (formerly Harley Hotel).

FULL DOUBLE-OCTA

We will hold a full double-octa under two and only two conditions. First,
the number of teams exceeds 90; second, if enough coaches volunteer eight
bedrooms in which to hold the additional debates. If both of these
conditions are not met, we will clear 24 teams into a partial-double.
 

FORMAT FOR THE PRE-SEASON NOVICE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

This event will be an elimination bracket probably beginning at the
quarter-final level, but could begin earlier or later depending on the
number of entries.  Even if we have a partial octofinal, we will work out a
scheme in which novices who participate in Varsity octofinals but
subsequently lose will be able to enter the elimination bracket at the
quarterfinal level. "Novice" will be defined as students who are debating
for the first time in college this year.  To be eligible for this division,
debaters must have first participated in the preliminary rounds of the Henry
Clay Varsity Debates.

TOURNAMENT PRACTICES:

        A. Rounds Per Day.  There will be four rounds held on Saturday and
Sunday, with elimination rounds on Monday.

        B. Procedure for Assigning Judges.  Judges will be assigned on a
selective procedure based on the input of the coaches.  Random assignments
will not be followed.

        C. Breaking Brackets.  We will continue the practice of not
breaking brackets in the elimination rounds.  Thus, teams from the same
school will meet if their numbers fall accordingly.

JUDGES:  Each school is expected to provide one judge per team.
Accordingly, a coach with one team will be expected to judge four rounds;
plus at least one elimination round.  A coach with two teams is expected to
judge all eight rounds; plus at least one elimination round. NOTE:  In
addition to his or her preliminary judging assignments, each judge is
expected to stay one round past that in which their team is eliminated.
Hence, each judge is expected to be available at least through
quarter-finals.  HIRED JUDGES ARE NOT AVAILABLE. WE WILL, HOWEVER, REFER
PEOPLE WHO WISH TO JUDGE AT THE HENRY CLAY TO THOSE COACHES WHO ARE HOPING
TO HIRE JUDGES. 


REGISTRATION FEE:  The registration for the Henry Clay Debates is
one-hundred and fifty dollars ($150) per team. A twenty dollar ($20)
surcharge will be assessed to each novice team who wishes to be considered
for the special elimination bracket in the competition for the title
"PRE-SEASON NOVICE NATIONAL CHAMPIONS".  The surcharge is to defray the
cost of additional trophies.  Fees include coaches parties each night plus
one luncheon and continental breakfast.  If you pay by check, please make
the check payable to UK Student Forum.

TRANSPORTATION:  Unfortunately, UK can no longer provide transportation to
and from the airport or campus.

FRIDAY REGISTRATION:  All registration will take place Friday evening,
October 7, 2005 in the Lexington Suite of the Ramada Hotel Deluxe
(Formerly Harley Hotel) between 6:30 and 11 p.m.  No registration will occur
on Saturday.

HOUSING: The Ramada Hotel Deluxe is the Tournament Hotel: (859) 299-1261.
Cost:  $84 per night for one to four people.  Each school must secure its
own housing.  Arrangements should be made immediately.  Most motel managers
say they will be completely filled by mid-September.  We are competing with
Thoroughbred racing at Keenland Race Course as well as UK football.  PLEASE
make your reservations immediately.

SINCE ALL SOCIAL EVENTS AND ELIMINATION ROUNDS WILL BE HELD AT THE RAMADA
HOTEL DELUXE, WE URGE YOU TO STAY THERE IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. Arrangements
have been made with the Ramada Hotel Deluxe for a special rate or $84 plus
tax per night.


RAMADA HOTEL DELUXE (Formerly the HARLEY HOTEL (Convention Hotel):  100
rooms available
Reservations held until Sept. 23
(859) 299-1261
$84+ tax (1-4 people) flat rate.
Reservation Code:  Kentucky Debates

CAUTION IN THE USE OF RAMADA ROOMS:  When you check out, the Ramada Hotel
Deluxe will have a staff person check the room.  If it is unduly dirty or
trashed, the hotel will assess an additional $25 cleaning fee per room. If
the carpet has to be shampooed, it will be an additional $50 per room.

SUGGESTED OVER-FLOW HOTELS

DAYS INN (1 Block from Ramada)
(859) 299-1202

RED ROOF INN NORTH (1 block from Ramada)
859-293-2626 or 1-800-733-7663.

IF THE ABOVE ARE FILLED TRY:

HOLIDAY INN NORTH (1 mile from Ramada)
(859) 232 - 0512

Bluegrass Budget Inn
232 New Circle Rd
Lexington, KY 40505
(859) 299-1211

PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE TOTAL TAX ON LEXINGTON LODGING IS 11.3 PERCENT.

QUESTIONS OR LAST MINUTE CHANGES:  If any questions arise, or of any last
minute changes occur, please do not hesitate to contact me.  My telephone
numbers are:

University Office: (859) 257-1665
Debate Office: (859) 257-6523
Home: (859) 272-4268
Fax: (859) 323-1995
Cell: (859) 552-7297

E-Mail: jwpatt00 at uky.edu

If you need to reach me after 4:00pm, October 5th, until the end of the
tournament, you can contact me at the Ramada Hotel Deluxe, Lexington Suite,
(859) 299-1261.  

I am looking forward to seeing you and your teams at the University of
Kentucky's 2004 Debates.

Sincerely,

J.W. Patterson
Director of Debate

University of Kentucky


------ End of Forwarded Message

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/79d77a51/attachment.html 


From ucodebate  Thu Sep  1 16:02:27 2005
From: ucodebate (ucodebate at att.net)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:02:27 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] Katrina
Message-ID: <090120052102.7529.43176C62000A62F500001D6921602810600A9B0E0D0A0B010C9A@att.net>

Scott,

Your post says why the government didn't listen to the report.  The report is the intellectual property of the NOAA.  Bush is firmly entrenched in the habit of disregarding them and their scholarship.  Blow em off about global warming - blow em off about these pesky global warming induced superstorms.

Perhaps he was too busy on vacation to scramble the materials needed to deal with this crisis.

I KNOW that a lot of national guard folks are overseas and we don't have the spare capacity to deal with something like this and occupy Iraq.  That is why we fired Generals Wallace & Shensheki (sp). Bush didn't want to hear the truth about any of that.  We're streatched too thin to handle both those objectives.

Also, I was interested in Jackie's post about racism/classism.  I think that he is on-point in many regards.  These folks lacked the economic means and the extended network of well-to-do friends outside the area to escape such an ordeal.  

Another issue that not a single person has mentioned is the fact that one-size fits all shelter solutions won't work for some in the New Orleans area.

I've paid to park outside of Jackson Squre in the Quarter.  I've spent a lot of time in this area.  I've gone to 7 Mardi Gras in the last 15 years.  Many of the homeless people in this part of New Orleans are mentally ill or have drug dependency issues.  You can't tell a crack head whose been a crack head for 15 years that they are not going to be allowed to do crack in the shelter.  If you tell them that, they will not go.  I'm not saying everyone left in the Big Easy is a crack head!!!  Just that some of the people had special needs that required some tolerance on the part of the establishment and that those needs were not something that the evacuation seemed to be sensitive to.  Some didn't leave because they had pets.  There should be a crack head shelter, a pet friendly shelter, and an alcohol tolerated shelter.  Free rides were given to "low income" people from the Superdome to shelters in Shreveport and Baton Rouge.  I don't think that part of it is as pronounced as some might believe.  What is a more reasonable justification is distrust of the system, desire to retain privacy, and the lack of attention to special needs.

I agree with Duane.  Blanket amnesty should be given for the procurement of consumables.  However, I would go a step further.  If you're out looting T.V.'s and sneakers there are no jails to put you in.  The police and national guard should be given orders to shoot "looters" stealing non-consumables with non-lethal, rubber bullets.  The governments are too overburdened to enforce property laws and save peoples lives.  This would allow them to protect the property, save lives, and provide a penalty for the inappropriate "looting"

I know that Donna Smith, Tony Fagan, Beth Fagan, and lil Charlie Fagan are safe.  I spoke with Tony on the phone for a few minutes last night until his cell was dead.  He has used his organizational skills to get all 22 of the O'Rielly Auto Parts stores that he runs open with gas generators to run the registers.  Three of his stores were blown off the map and some employees remain missing.

Still no word from our good friend, former SeLa debater Jason Smith.  He rode out the storm in Bougalousa, LA.  They took a direct hit and I can't get any information about him.  Boug is between Slidell and Bay St. Louis 20 minutes north of I-10.

The news has really bummed me out of late,

Jason Stone--
Director of Debate 
100 N. University Ave. 
Department of Communication 
University of Central Oklahoma 
Edmond, OK 73034 
(405) 974-5584 (o) 
bronze.ucok.edu/debate_team/ 




-------------- Original message from Duane Hyland <privethedge at yahoo.com>: -------------- 


HI, Look..I hate to say this - a few years ago I was watching a National Geographic special on superstorms, the nightmare scenario the show covered as a category 5 hurricane hitting New Orleans. The show went through everything that is happening now - it's almost like watching the show in real time.

The blame for what happened has to be placed soley on the government of the State and the Feds - the former head of the US Army Corp of Engineers said on TV last evening that they knew the levies would only hold against a category 3, but that the expense of a system that would withstand a category 5 was considered to be to great when held against the risk of a such a storm (thought to be once every 500 years and only then, maybe). They knew..and they said it was too expensive.

However - I will say that shooting at rescue helicopters, setting fires, and what not - is out of line. You don't shoot the people coming to save you. If you do, people will not come.

And, despite what many of you may think of my politics..I actually think it's morally permissible to loot food and clothing - but TVs? Stereos? No.

Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind? If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/fe6f3775/attachment.htm 


From the_wglf  Thu Sep  1 16:03:01 2005
From: the_wglf (THE WGLF)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:03:01 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] Judging Available at GA State
Message-ID: <BAY105-F125DDA02EDCD113E313C4DF3A00@phx.gbl>

I know I have three rounds available, maybe four.

Get in touch with me and we can work something out.

Never underestimate the value of a free strike.

Love,
James

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From Joseph.Scrocca  Thu Sep  1 16:09:00 2005
From: Joseph.Scrocca (Scrocca, J. MAJ SOCSCI)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:09:00 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] WEST POINT TOURNAMENT INVITE
Message-ID: <F12DB0160933A1439005D0F9DD67BAE60641401D@USMASVGDOIM214.usma.ds.army.edu>

I am pleased to invite you to the 38th annual West Point Debate
Tournament from 21 October to 23 October, 2005.  This year's tournament
will feature six preliminary rounds, two on Friday and four on Saturday,
with elimination rounds on Sunday in open, junior varsity and novice
divisions.  Tournament entries must be received by October 17, 2004.
Entries after that date are subject to room availability.  By tradition
we will host the awards brunch on Sunday morning at the West Point Club
overlooking the Hudson River.  Entry fees will cover continental
breakfast and lunch on Saturday and brunch on Sunday. 

Tournament fees: $80 per team. Meal fee for judges (to cover breakfast,
lunch, brunch and snacks) is $20.  New programs with limited budgets may
submit a request for their fees to be lowered for the tournament. 



Our tournament is CEDA sanctioned and will comply with the underlying
principles of CEDA's Statement on Sexual Harassment and Discrimination
and the Statement of Ethical Principles. 

 

If you have any questions, please call me at (845) 938-3383 or
joseph.scrocca at usma.edu. Hope to see you at West Point. 

 

Respectfully,


Joe Scrocca
Tournament Director 

 

 

West Point Debate Tournament 
October 21 - October 23, 2005
United States Military Academy at West Point, NY 

 

*       Resolved: The United States Federal Government should
substantially increase diplomatic and economic pressure on the People's
Republic of China in one or more of the following areas: trade, human
rights, weapons nonproliferation, Taiwan.

*       Format: Three divisions of debate will be offered: novice,
junior varsity, and varsity.

o      Time limits for speeches are 9-3-6 with ten minutes of
preparation time. 

o      There will be six preliminary rounds. Rounds one and two will be
pre-set. Rounds three through six will be power matched. 

o      We will use random judging.  

o      An appropriate number of elimination rounds will be offered in
accordance with applicable rules and based on the size of the
tournament. 

o      Entries: Enter as many teams as you like in each of the three
divisions.  If entries exceed room availability, latecomers may be
restricted. 
Eligibility for participation in the division is governed by the
CEDA rules. 



1. Novice division: open to debaters who have no more than a total of 24
rounds of team policy or Lincoln-Douglas debate at any level (high
school or college) or college LD debate prior to the academic year, or
to persons who have competed in the novice division in a previous year
but have not advanced into the elimination rounds at two tournaments or
to those who meet the prior qualifications and have not advanced to the
final round of three novice, JV or varsity tournaments where there are
20 or more teams in the division. 

 

2. Junior Varsity division: (1) Open only to students who are competing
in their first two academic years of intercollegiate debate beyond the
novice level; (2) Progression during the year. Debaters competing in JV
must progress to open or varsity debate: a. if they advance to the final
round of three JV, open, or varsity tournaments (no matter where), or b.
if they qualify to attend the National Debate Tournament. (3) ADA
Nationals. The aforementioned progression requirement based on winning
the final rounds of three junior varsity, open, or varsity tournaments
does not apply to ADA Nationals. 


3. Varsity division: open to all students. Please enter the tournament
by October 23, 2004 by email. Entries after this date are subject to
campus room availability. Enter early as our room space may be limited
by construction. Judging: Each school should provide a qualified judge
for each one or two teams entered in the tournament. A judge will be
responsible to cover three preliminary rounds and at least one
elimination round for 
each team entered. All judges will be required to judge through the
octafinal elimination round or one round after your last team is
eliminated whichever occurs later. 



*       Awards: Awards will be awarded for the top sixteen teams in each
division and for the top ten speakers in each division. The first place
varsity team will also take home the traveling trophy (saber) for one
year. 

 

*       Fees: Entry fees are $80 per team, $20 per judge. Make checks
payable to Directorate of Cadet Activities. Fees include trophies, food,
and the awards brunch on Sunday for all team participants, coaches, and
judges.  

 

*       Hotel information: Note -- West Point is "geographically
challenged." The best selection of hotels is in the Newburgh area,
approximately 30 minutes from post. 
If you'd prefer a closer hotel book early because many hotels are
already sold out.   

 

1) Clarion Hotel, Newburgh, 1-845-564-9020

Approximately 30 minute from USMA

Group Rate $100-$120 depending on occupancy, Breakfast Included

"West Point Debate Tournament"  80 rooms reserved

2) Comfort Inn Newburgh, 1-845-567-0567
Approximately 35 minute from USMA
Approximate Rate: $90 a night, Continental Breakfast Included
3) Hampton Inn Newburgh, 1-845-567-9100
Approximately 40 minutes from USMA
Approximate Rate: $135  

4) U S Academy Motel
<http://www.google.com/local?q=hotels&hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2005-22,RN
WE:en&sa=X&near=Highland+Falls,+NY+10928&radius=0&latlng=41358177,-73974
618,17523179522678885082> , (845) 446-2021

Highland Falls, NY, Approximately 1 mile from USMA

Limited availability

5) West Point Motel
<http://www.google.com/local?q=hotels&hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2005-22,RN
WE:en&sa=X&near=Highland+Falls,+NY+10928&radius=0&latlng=41358177,-73974
618,8748017386877056930> , (845) 446-4180

Highland Falls, NY, Approximately 1 mile from USMA

Limited availability

6) Palisade Motel
<http://www.google.com/local?q=hotels&hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2005-22,RN
WE:en&sa=X&near=Highland+Falls,+NY+10928&radius=0&latlng=41358177,-73974
618,8614606736973930147> , (845) 446-9400

Highland Falls, NY, Approximately 1 mile from USMA 

Limited availability

 

*       Entry Deadlines: Please enter the tournament by October 17,
2004. Be sure to phone or e-mail late entries or any last minute
changes. Teams dropped after October 21 at noon may still be assessed
the entry fee. Additionally, judges covering dropped teams after October
21 at noon will still be expected to judge the rounds committed for the
dropped team. Please enter the tournament via email to
joseph.scrocca at usma.edu.  

 

*       Directions: To West Point: West Point is in the Hudson Valley
approximately one hour north of NYC. Access via the NY Thruway (84) to
9W South, exit at 218 and follow signs to West Point or, the New Jersey
Turnpike (I-95) to the Palisades Parkway to Bear Mountain Bridge then
follow the signs to West Point. 
* Enter through Thayer Gate. 

 

*       Tournament Registration: Registration will be held in Thayer
Hall Friday 
afternoon from 1:00 pm to 4:00 p.m. Off load tubs and evidence on Thayer
Roof. Parking will be in the parking lots around the ball field. 

 

*       Airport information: The closest airport is Stewart
International Airport in Newburgh New York. Other airports in the region
include Newark (1.5 - 2 hours), LaGuardia and JFK (1.5 - 2 hours
depending on traffic). Consult your travel agent and MapQuest for
driving directions. 

 

*       Public Transportation: The closest train is Garrison (approx. 11
miles across the river). 

 

*       Special Announcements: Smoking is only permitted outside the
academic buildings. Please do not smoke in the public lounges or
classrooms. 

 

*       Post security is in effect. Please ensure that all debaters
carry a photo ID with them at all times. Vans will be subject to a
routine search at the gate (plan on an extra 10 minutes). Enter post at
Thayer Gate. 

 

*       TOURNAMENT SCHEDULE 
** We're using military time to indicate that we will start promptly. 
Friday, 21 October 
Upon Arrival Team Registration 
Thayer Hall 
1615-1815 Round 1 
Thayer Hall 
1830-2030 Round 2 
Thayer Hall 

 

Saturday, 22 October 
0700-0800 Continental Breakfast 
Thayer Rotunda 
0800-1000 Round 3 
Thayer Hall 
1000-1200 Round 4 
Thayer Hall 
1200-1300 Lunch and District Coaches' Meeting (LOC TBA) 
Thayer Rotunda 
1300-1500 Round 5 
Thayer Hall 
1600-1800 Round 6 
Thayer Hall 

 

Sunday, 23 October
0700-0800 Coffee and Juice 
Thayer Rotunda 
0800-1000 Octafinals 
Thayer Hall 
1000-1130 Brunch and Awards 
Thayer Hall 
1200-1430 Quarterfinals 
Thayer Hall 
1430-1700 Semifinals 
Thayer Hall 
1800-2030 Final Round 
Thayer Hall 

 

 

 

Registration Form next page

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


WEST POINT DEBATE TOURNAMENT 2005 

ENTRY FORM 


School__________________________________________________________________


Address ________________________________________________________________



Person Submitting Entry
___________________________________________________


Office Phone (______)_____________ Home Phone
(______)_____________________ 

 

Please include the full name of each debater entered. 


Varsity Debate: 
Team #1 _______________________________________ 
Team #1 ________________________________________ 
Team #2 _______________________________________ 
Team #2 ________________________________________ 
Team #3 _______________________________________ 
Team #3 ________________________________________ 
Team #4 _______________________________________ 
Team #4 ________________________________________ 

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________


Jr. Varsity Debate: 

Team #1 _______________________________________ 
Team #1 ________________________________________ 
Team #2 _______________________________________ 
Team #2 ________________________________________ 
Team #3 _______________________________________ 
Team #3 ________________________________________ 
Team #4 _______________________________________ 
Team #4 ________________________________________ 

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________


NOVICE 
Team #1 _______________________________________ 
Team #1 ________________________________________ 
Team #2 _______________________________________ 
Team #2 ________________________________________ 
Team #3 _______________________________________ 
Team #3 ________________________________________ 
Team #4 _______________________________________ 
Team #4 ________________________________________ 

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________




Judges 
_____________________________________ 
_____________________________________ 
_____________________________________ 
_____________________________________ 
_____________________________________ 
_____________________________________ 
_____________________________________ 
_____________________________________ 

 

Total number:
of Vegetarians __________ 
of Vegans________

 

Cost:
$80 per team ____________________ 
$20 per judge (food fee) ____________________ 
Uncovered teams ($100 or $25 per round) ____________________ 

Total cost:_______________

 

 

Joe Scrocca

Major, AV

Department of Social Sciences

United States Military Academy 

West Point, NY 10996

COM: 845-938-3383

Cell: 845-661-4477

FAX: 845-938-4563

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/7744161d/attachment.html 


From Joseph.Scrocca  Thu Sep  1 16:22:19 2005
From: Joseph.Scrocca (Scrocca, J. MAJ SOCSCI)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:22:19 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] WEST POINT TOURNAMENT INVITE
Message-ID: <F12DB0160933A1439005D0F9DD67BAE606414078@USMASVGDOIM214.usma.ds.army.edu>

Been a long day...please disregard the two instances in which the
invitations reads 2004 and replace with 2005.  Thank you.  

 

Joe Scrocca

Major, AV

Department of Social Sciences

United States Military Academy 

West Point, NY 10996

COM: 845-938-3383

Cell: 845-661-4477

FAX: 845-938-4563

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/8c8d4901/attachment.htm 


From goss_judy  Thu Sep  1 16:38:25 2005
From: goss_judy (Judy Goss)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:38:25 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Katrina
In-Reply-To: <090120052102.7529.43176C62000A62F500001D6921602810600A9B0E0D0A0B010C9A@att.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F233FE1E70A0F2784EB3A6B9AA00@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/ed9af012/attachment.html 


From joe_koehle  Thu Sep  1 17:36:09 2005
From: joe_koehle (Joe Koehle)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:36:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] judging availible for GA state and Kentucky
Message-ID: <20050901223609.13982.qmail@web50207.mail.yahoo.com>

3 rounds for sale at ga state
8 for sale at kentucky.
 
hit me back and we'll negotiate.
 
Joe Koehle
W Ga

		
---------------------------------
 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/bf9b532a/attachment.htm 


From mmk_savant  Thu Sep  1 18:34:15 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:34:15 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] don't be...
Message-ID: <BAY101-F4079FFB68C31233DACFDDFE4A00@phx.gbl>

either of these cumdumpsters:

1) John F. Kennedy Jr.

( 
http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/03/15/1110900217_3222.jpg 
)

this asshole wrote of Katrina: "In 1998, Republican icon Pat Robertson 
warned that hurricanes were likely to hit communities that offended God.   
Perhaps it was Barbour?s memo (against Kyoto) that caused Katrina, at the 
last moment, to spare New Orleans and save its worst flailings for the 
Mississippi coast."
( 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/afor-they-that-sow-the-_b_6396.html 
)

don't be like him.  don't use this tragedy to make moronic political 
statements like his.  don't try to use this disaster as an opportunity to 
take potshots at George Bush, the United States, capitalism, government, 
minorities, Democrats, etc.  because only a cumdumpster would do that.

2) Marion "Pat" Robertson

( http://www.mickeyz.net/images/pat_robertson_ds.jpg )

this asshole uses money donated to his "Operation Blessing," which 
advertises as a disaster relief charity, to fly diamond mining equipment to 
his diamond mines in Zaire, to give direct grants of millions of dollars to 
the Christian Broadcasting Network, and to spend 30% of all contributions on 
"administration".  This televangelist faith-healer scumbag took credit for 
diverting hurricane Gloria from Virginia Beach onto Long Island in 1985 and 
then to have similarly steered hurricane Felix in 1995 from Virginia Beach 
to New Jersey (where it killed 8).  Hurricane Bonnie made landfall in 
Virginia Beach shortly after Pat warned Orlando that "Gay Day" at Disney 
World would provoke God to send a hurricane there.  Also prayed to God to 
divert hurricane Isabel in 2003 but it still landed and 10 died in Virginia. 
  no doubt this cumdumpster will shortly expound that Katrina was God's 
punishment for the sins of New Orleans.  several of his fellow reverends 
have already done so.  don't be this asshole either.

thanks,
Michael Korcok





From privethedge  Thu Sep  1 18:39:20 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Katrina
In-Reply-To: <090120052102.7529.43176C62000A62F500001D6921602810600A9B0E0D0A0B010C9A@att.net>
Message-ID: <20050901233920.48217.qmail@web50913.mail.yahoo.com>

HI, It turns out that in one of the states ( I didn't catch the full story) that the legal code does allow for the looting of food and other items necessary for survival - but not for luxury items. Which, I think is good. You'd have to be really cruel to say that people didn't deserve food and the like.
 
I'm not sure I agree with shooting looters though - even if they boost a tv set or something. I mean, people that are afraid, or angry, or, most likely, both, do stupid stuff. I'd say arrest them, get them to calm down, feed them, whatever..but shooting them seems really harsh to me.
 
Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








		
---------------------------------
 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/f76f6a90/attachment.html 


From parcherj  Thu Sep  1 18:42:09 2005
From: parcherj (Jeff Parcher)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:42:09 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] don't be...
References: <BAY101-F4079FFB68C31233DACFDDFE4A00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <008001c5af4e$c9842e00$6401a8c0@D3GVG561>

"No One Can Say they Didn't See it Coming"

By Sidney Blumenthal

In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the 
three most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New 
Orleans flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.




      REUTERS

      An aerial view of the New Orleans airport underwater.

Biblical in its uncontrolled rage and scope, Hurricane Katrina has left 
millions of Americans to scavenge for food and shelter and hundreds to 
thousands reportedly dead. With its main levee broken, the evacuated city of 
New Orleans has become part of the Gulf of Mexico. But the damage wrought by 
the hurricane may not entirely be the result of an act of nature.

A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New 
Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush 
administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood 
killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban 
Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and 
renovated levees and pumping stations. In early 2001, the Federal Emergency 
Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New 
Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a 
terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the 
flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq 
war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New 
Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the 
waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the 
beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent 
since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring 
freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, 
but it was too late.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune, which before the hurricane published a 
series on the federal funding problem, and whose presses are now underwater, 
reported online: "No one can say they didn't see it coming ... Now in the 
wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked 
about the lack of preparation."

The Bush administration's policy of turning over wetlands to developers 
almost certainly also contributed to the heightened level of the storm 
surge. In 1990, a federal task force began restoring lost wetlands 
surrounding New Orleans. Every two miles of wetland between the Crescent 
City and the Gulf reduces a surge by half a foot. Bush had promised "no net 
loss" of wetlands, a policy launched by his father's administration and 
bolstered by President Clinton. But he reversed his approach in 2003, 
unleashing the developers. The Army Corps of Engineers and the Environmental 
Protection Agency then announced they could no longer protect wetlands 
unless they were somehow related to interstate commerce.

In response to this potential crisis, four leading environmental groups 
conducted a joint expert study, concluding in 2004 that without wetlands 
protection New Orleans could be devastated by an ordinary, much less a 
Category 4 or 5, hurricane. "There's no way to describe how mindless a 
policy that is when it comes to wetlands protection," said one of the 
report's authors. The chairman of the White House's Council on Environmental 
Quality dismissed the study as "highly questionable," and boasted, 
"Everybody loves what we're doing."

            NEWSLETTER

            Sign up for Spiegel Online's daily newsletter and get the best 
of Der Spiegel's and Spiegel Online's international coverage in your In-Box 
everyday.







"My administration's climate change policy will be science based," President 
Bush declared in June 2001. But in 2002, when the Environmental Protection 
Agency submitted a study on global warming to the United Nations reflecting 
its expert research, Bush derided it as "a report put out by a bureaucracy," 
and excised the climate change assessment from the agency's annual report. 
The next year, when the EPA issued its first comprehensive "Report on the 
Environment," stating, "Climate change has global consequences for human 
health and the environment," the White House simply demanded removal of the 
line and all similar conclusions. At the G-8 meeting in Scotland this year, 
Bush successfully stymied any common action on global warming. Scientists, 
meanwhile, have continued to accumulate impressive data on the rising 
temperature of the oceans, which has produced more severe hurricanes.

In February 2004, 60 of the nation's leading scientists, including 20 Nobel 
laureates, warned in a statement, "Restoring Scientific Integrity in 
Policymaking": "Successful application of science has played a large part in 
the policies that have made the United States of America the world's most 
powerful nation and its citizens increasingly prosperous and healthy ... 
Indeed, this principle has long been adhered to by presidents and 
administrations of both parties in forming and implementing policies. The 
administration of George W. Bush has, however, disregarded this principle 
... The distortion of scientific knowledge for partisan political ends must 
cease." Bush completely ignored this statement.

In the two weeks preceding the storm in the Gulf, the trumping of science by 
ideology and expertise by special interests accelerated. The Federal Drug 
Administration announced that it was postponing sale of the morning-after 
contraceptive pill, despite overwhelming scientific evidence of its safety 
and its approval by the FDA's scientific advisory board. The United Nations 
special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa accused the Bush administration of 
responsibility for a condom shortage in Uganda -- the result of the 
administration's evangelical Christian agenda of "abstinence." When the 
chief of the Bureau of Justice Statistics in the Justice Department was 
ordered by the White House to delete its study that African-Americans and 
other minorities are subject to racial profiling in police traffic stops and 
he refused to buckle under, he was forced out of his job. When the Army 
Corps of Engineers' chief contracting oversight analyst objected to a $7 
billion no-bid contract awarded for work in Iraq to Halliburton (the firm at 
which Vice President Cheney was formerly CEO), she was demoted despite her 
superior professional ratings. At the National Park Service, a former Cheney 
aide, a political appointee lacking professional background, drew up a plan 
to overturn past environmental practices and prohibit any mention of 
evolution while allowing sale of religious materials through the Park 
Service.

On the day the levees burst in New Orleans, Bush delivered a speech in 
Colorado comparing the Iraq war to World War II and himself to Franklin D. 
Roosevelt: "And he knew that the best way to bring peace and stability to 
the region was by bringing freedom to Japan." Bush had boarded his very own 
"Streetcar Named Desire."

Sidney Blumenthal, a former assistant and senior advisor to President 
Clinton and the author of "The Clinton Wars," is writing a column for Salon 
and the Guardian of London





From mmk_savant  Thu Sep  1 18:43:08 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:43:08 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] yah...
Message-ID: <BAY101-F16363D5FEE8DF8A11DBD1BE4A00@phx.gbl>

robert f kennedy jr. that is

Michael Korcok





From parcherj  Thu Sep  1 18:44:02 2005
From: parcherj (Jeff Parcher)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:44:02 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] don't be...
References: <BAY101-F4079FFB68C31233DACFDDFE4A00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <008301c5af4f$099034d0$6401a8c0@D3GVG561>

John F. Kennedy Jr. is dead so I doubt he said anything about Katrina.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Korcok" <mmk_savant at hotmail.com>
To: <edebate at ndtceda.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: [eDebate] don't be...


> either of these cumdumpsters:
>
> 1) John F. Kennedy Jr.
>
> ( 
> http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/03/15/1110900217_3222.jpg )
>
> this asshole wrote of Katrina: "In 1998, Republican icon Pat Robertson 
> warned that hurricanes were likely to hit communities that offended God. 
> Perhaps it was Barbour's memo (against Kyoto) that caused Katrina, at the 
> last moment, to spare New Orleans and save its worst flailings for the 
> Mississippi coast."
> ( 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/afor-they-that-sow-the-_b_6396.html )
>
> don't be like him.  don't use this tragedy to make moronic political 
> statements like his.  don't try to use this disaster as an opportunity to 
> take potshots at George Bush, the United States, capitalism, government, 
> minorities, Democrats, etc.  because only a cumdumpster would do that.
>
> 2) Marion "Pat" Robertson
>
> ( http://www.mickeyz.net/images/pat_robertson_ds.jpg )
>
> this asshole uses money donated to his "Operation Blessing," which 
> advertises as a disaster relief charity, to fly diamond mining equipment 
> to his diamond mines in Zaire, to give direct grants of millions of 
> dollars to the Christian Broadcasting Network, and to spend 30% of all 
> contributions on "administration".  This televangelist faith-healer 
> scumbag took credit for diverting hurricane Gloria from Virginia Beach 
> onto Long Island in 1985 and then to have similarly steered hurricane 
> Felix in 1995 from Virginia Beach to New Jersey (where it killed 8). 
> Hurricane Bonnie made landfall in Virginia Beach shortly after Pat warned 
> Orlando that "Gay Day" at Disney World would provoke God to send a 
> hurricane there.  Also prayed to God to divert hurricane Isabel in 2003 
> but it still landed and 10 died in Virginia. no doubt this cumdumpster 
> will shortly expound that Katrina was God's punishment for the sins of New 
> Orleans.  several of his fellow reverends have already done so.  don't be 
> this asshole either.
>
> thanks,
> Michael Korcok
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
> 





From mmk_savant  Thu Sep  1 19:39:01 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 20:39:01 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] and yah...
Message-ID: <BAY101-F190FF0767BC98D1062F95FE4A30@phx.gbl>

Sidney Blumenthal is a great example of what i meant.
don't be like that idiot either.

Michael Korcok





From stannardmatt  Thu Sep  1 21:15:09 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 20:15:09 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] and yah...
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F190FF0767BC98D1062F95FE4A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F15AB70D0790974E86FCD0ED2A30@phx.gbl>

Translation for the Korcok-impaired:

Don't use facts to suggest any kind of causal relationship between the 
decisions of the Bush administration and any kind of disasters or 
undesirable events.  If you do, Korcok will (a) apply a brilliant 
levelling-gaze to equate you with Pat Robertson (thereby equating fact-based 
analysis about funding levies and flood control with religious 
pronouncements about divine wrath, since they are both the same thing as 
long as they serve Korcok's political agenda), and (b) call you 
"cumdumpster" and an "idiot."

Only Korcok gets to be political and say it's good for some people to die.  
Only he gets to take potshots and call people names.  Understand?  He gets 
to do that, you don't.  Any questions?  Good.

mjs





From parcherj  Thu Sep  1 21:22:57 2005
From: parcherj (Jeff Parcher)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 22:22:57 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] korcok and George Bush
References: <BAY101-F190FF0767BC98D1062F95FE4A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <002501c5af65$3cc86190$6401a8c0@D3GVG561>

korcok still mindlessly defending the retard-in-chief with such brilliant 
arguments as: "that guy's an idiot."

perhaps korcok could enlighten us on why he thinks Sidney Blumnethal's 
thesis that the Bush Administration has polticized science with 
fundamentalist nonsense is somewhow incorrect.

i'd actually be quite interested in how korcok can defend one of 
Blumenthal's examples: the decision yesterday by the FDA to permanently 
delay approval of Plan B (morning after pill) as an over the counter drug 
despite the fact that the FDA's own scientific panel reccomended in it's 
favor.

i, for one, salute Susan Wood and her decision to resign over this rank 
prioritzation of religious blither over the lives and health of women.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A high-ranking Food and Drug Administration official 
resigned Wednesday in protest over the agency's refusal to allow 
over-the-counter sales of emergency contraception.

Susan Wood, director of FDA's Office of Women's Health, announced her 
resignation in an e-mail to colleagues at the agency. The e-mail was 
released by contraception advocates.

The FDA last Friday postponed indefinitely its decision on whether to allow 
the morning-after pill, called Plan B, to be sold without a prescription. 
The agency said it was safe for adults to use without a doctor's guidance 
but was unable to decide how to keep it out of the hands of young teenagers 
without a prescription -- a decision contrary to the advice of its own 
scientific advisers.

"I can no longer serve as staff when scientific and clinical evidence, fully 
evaluated and recommended for approval by the professional staff here, has 
been overruled," wrote Wood, who also was assistant commissioner for women's 
health. "The recent decision announced by the Commissioner about emergency 
contraception, which continues to limit women's access to a product that 
would reduce unintended pregnancies and reduce abortions, is contrary to my 
core commitment to improving and advancing women's health."

Plan B's maker has been trying for two years to begin nonprescription sales, 
and the FDA's latest postponement of its fate was a surprise: Commissioner 
Lester Crawford won Senate confirmation to take his job only after promising 
members of Congress to make a final decision by September 1.

Crawford announced Friday that the agency considered over-the-counter sales 
to women 17 and older fine, but that younger teens would still need a 
prescription -- and that the agency was unable to decide how pharmacies 
could enforce an age limit, or even if it was legal to have such dual sales.







From privethedge  Thu Sep  1 21:27:45 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:27:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] and yah...
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F15AB70D0790974E86FCD0ED2A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050902022745.84738.qmail@web50914.mail.yahoo.com>

Look..do we actually have to turn this time when we should be thinking about all the people in those states that were hit by Katrina, and all the people that we know that still might be missing and such into a "Bush is Evil?" "Bush is God!" moment? Bush cut funding for the flood control, and he sold out the wetlands this was bad. The city and the Feds never invested properly on flood control to begin with, comfortable with getting buy with enough to help save everyone on a category 3 storm, but nothing more. Everyone is to blame in this mess. Each disaster/problem/mishap doesn't call for an indict or rabid defense of Bush. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
 Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050901/232b1b0c/attachment.htm 


From marty002  Thu Sep  1 22:02:34 2005
From: marty002 (Jillian Alejandria Marty)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 22:02:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Joe Schatz- Binghampton please respond.
Message-ID: <7155042.1125630154377.JavaMail.marty002@bama.ua.edu>

Hey Joe get back at me 

Jillian 
Alabama




From mmk_savant  Thu Sep  1 22:42:24 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 23:42:24 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] dumpsters
Message-ID: <BAY101-F2746A2715955D9935D98DAE4A30@phx.gbl>

no... it is simpler than that.

only a complete scumbag encounters this disaster and uses it to push their 
politics.
and only an idiot doesn't get that.  got it?  no?

Michael Korcok





From stannardmatt  Thu Sep  1 22:48:18 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:48:18 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] dumpsters
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F2746A2715955D9935D98DAE4A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F7253313890773CC9490E6D2A30@phx.gbl>

Uh, pot calling kettle what?

mjs


>From: "Michael Korcok" <mmk_savant at hotmail.com>
>To: edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: [eDebate] dumpsters
>Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 23:42:24 -0400
>
>no... it is simpler than that.
>
>only a complete scumbag encounters this disaster and uses it to push their 
>politics.
>and only an idiot doesn't get that.  got it?  no?
>
>Michael Korcok
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>eDebate mailing list
>eDebate at ndtceda.com
>To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
>http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate





From mmk_savant  Fri Sep  2 00:04:56 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 01:04:56 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans stannard
Message-ID: <BAY101-F263EEDEEFE9B91A3955EE8E4A30@phx.gbl>

because you don't see a distinction between Robert Kennedy calling Katrina's 
devastation of Gulf Coast Mississippi just deserts for Hailey Barbour's 
opposition to Kyoto and my expression of disgust that he did so?  same 
thing?  pot-kettle for you?

because you don't see a distinction between Pat Robertson raking in millions 
for his fake disaster relief charity and my expression of disgust that he 
does things like that?  same thing?

because you don't see a difference between Sidney Blumenthal looking at the 
human disaster of this hurricane and cobbling together an absurd screed 
blaming George Bush and my calling it what it is, mind-numbingly partisan 
crassness?  i am using Katrina to push my political agenda rather than just 
reacting to Blumenthal in revulsion?

go ahead, Matt.  explain how this would never have happened in a socialist 
utopia...  how it is all the fault of capitalism.  you won't because you are 
better than that.  they aren't.





From erm868f  Fri Sep  2 00:08:49 2005
From: erm868f (Morris, Eric R)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 00:08:49 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] dumpsters
Message-ID: <75489B77C88F414E946BDCBD0A14369D24D6CD@magnus.SMSU.EDU>

I guess you would say the same for Bush using 9/11 to push his politics? That's still close to every day.... I guess you would say the same to those trying to hype the looting, such that resources were diverted FROM search and rescue TO protecting flood damaged property. 

Despite the ad homs, I think the political pressure IS useful. I feel like this administration is slowly STARTING to take action. Perhaps the criticism (and the knowledge that they'll take a pounding on the flood funding question) is part of reason why. If the country gets furious about these things, it might light a fire under them and do some good. That is an appropriate political agenda in a time of crisis, no doubt.

Put another way: I've given money, I've listed my home for refugee families, I watch with sadness sickness and anger, and I gripe about the incompetence. I think the final one, when joined by others, IS a productive response. In fact, not griping given what I've read would be terribly dishonest on my part. Anger is part of my emotional response.

I would find your implicit appeal to national unity more compelling if the nation as a whole was the victim. Over time (and perhaps morally) we may be, but the victims I see on TV (and the ones dead in homes, I suspect) are largely poor and black. This crisis is a vivid illustration of how human catastrophe is an equity issue. Why do you insist that we refuse to acknowledge it?

Crises are places of argument, whether they should be or not. In calling for people to hush about their reactions to this one, you are also engaged in politicizing it - just in a different way. Your approach would exonerate incompetence, and define Bush as part of the solution while ignoring the ways he contributed to the problem.

I won't defend the Kennedy quote you used as an example, but what exactly did you think was wrong with the Blumenthal article Parcher cited? Feel free to answer in a couple of weeks if your crisis ethics preclude you from thinking about it right now.

You are a friend, but I strongly disagree with you on this.

Eric Morris

Missouri State


________________________________

From: edebate-admin at ndtceda.com on behalf of Michael Korcok
Sent: Thu 9/1/2005 10:42 PM
To: edebate at ndtceda.com
Subject: [eDebate] dumpsters



no... it is simpler than that.

only a complete scumbag encounters this disaster and uses it to push their
politics.
and only an idiot doesn't get that.  got it?  no?

Michael Korcok


_______________________________________________
eDebate mailing list
eDebate at ndtceda.com
To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate





From mmk_savant  Fri Sep  2 01:03:26 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:03:26 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] and Ermo
Message-ID: <BAY101-F382176DD63B80191BA52E0E4A30@phx.gbl>

9/11 was an attack on the United States by terrorists, a political act which 
demanded politics.  i had no problems with anyone having political responses 
to it.

those using the looting to promote racism disgust me.  as do those using 
this tragedy to promote a far-right politcal agenda... as i have clearly 
indicated...

huh?  if someone thinks the response to this tragedy is too slow, 
inadequate, or misdirected, they should say so.  Kennedy, Robertson, and 
Blumenthal aren't doing that.  Kennedy is using the tragedy to push Kyoto,  
Robertson to fund his scam charity, and Blumenthal to take potshots at Bush.

gripe all you want.  express your rage at incompetence to your heart's 
content.  i assume you are incensed at Democratic Louisiana Governor 
Kathleen Blanco's absurd mishandling of this crisis.  or at Democratic New 
Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin's miserable disappearance.  no?  at George Bush?  
what a surprise.  ok... sorry... cheapshot.  Come on Eric...  Sidney 
Blumenthal isn't angry to help the people of the Gulf Coast... he is using 
their tragedy to make stupid political points about the morning after pill 
or something.  and that's what douchebags do.

i made no appeal to national unity in those posts.  i expressed disgust at 
those who see human disaster and think "how can i advance my political 
agenda with this."

Eric, i don't refuse to acknowledge that those who are poor, black, creole, 
uneducated, American, New Orleans residents, are disproportionately 
suffering and struggling and triumphing and committing horrible acts in this 
catastrophe.  what i refuse to do is to blame the Louisiana Democratic party 
for their plight, to concoct tenuous arguments about how it is Huey Long's 
and Bill Clinton's fault, to use their plight as a platform to argue that 
God is punishing New Orleans for its homosexuality, to go on a tirade about 
how evil China is for not signing the Kyoto protocol, etc.

right Eric.  it is George Bush's fault.  and being disgusted by those whose 
knee-jerk reaction to this tragedy is to use it to bash Bush is my refusal 
to admit his culpability in creating hurricanes (Kennedy's argument is 
exactly that... he didn't sign Kyoto and global warming created Katrina so 
Bush is responsible) or weakening levees (Blumenthal's argument is exactly 
that... he didn't fund the Army Corps study of how to fix things last year 
so George busted that levee) or creating racism or whatever...  because 
EVERYTHING is ultimately the fault of George Bush!!!

look, George Bush and i, we do not see eye-to-eye.  for example... Pat 
Robertson is getting a huge plug by FEMA for his fake disaster-relief 
charity.  George gave that charity $50 million in his faith-based charity 
thing.  not good.  double plus bad.  bad bad President.  okay?  does that 
slake your Bush-hate?

>You are a friend, but I strongly disagree with you on this.

good to hear.  the friend part i mean.  we can work on the strongly disagree 
part...  especially since Jarman sent me hate-mail about the Jazzy JJ Jarman 
crack a few days back... i trust things are well with you.

Michael Korcok





From mmk_savant  Fri Sep  2 01:34:59 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:34:59 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans parcher
Message-ID: <BAY101-F25138928A4E80AD94ECBADE4A30@phx.gbl>

i disagree with the Bush administration and George Bush about many things.

the differences between you and i used to be disagreements in the middle.
you seem to me to have drifted more into the knee-jerk, uncritical, 
simple-minded hatred of all things Bush.  and that is a shame because that 
is the path to irrelevance:  you will continue to lose politically and you 
won't commit to building a center.  and i think that is a bad thing.  
because a reasonable America depends on a robust middle.

here is another way to understand me and, inter alia, what you don't get 
about America and why you have lost Congress, the Presidency, and the 
Courts.  and why your ideas just don't matter any more.

in a war you choose sides.  <--- that is a period.

i am a "conservative atheist".

the "conservative" part:

economically i believe in more economic growth, less government, less 
regulation, less taxation, more enterprise.  because capitalism is the 
unmatchable engine of prosperity.

in global governance, i believe that the United States is the "shining city 
on the hill", the last best hope of humankind, a beacon of liberty, a 
country that needs to accept that it must lead because if we do not, global 
chaos is guaranteed.

the "atheist" part:

mine is a technical/rational viewpoint.  i have little respect for 
mysticism, superstition, the religion grift, tradition for tradition's sake, 
or rank nonsense.  i am at least as "liberal" as you about prayer in school, 
the pledge of allegiance, the teaching of evolution, faith-based 
initiatives, the morning-after pill, stem cell research, or abortion.

i am also a traditional "liberal" socially.  the government has no business 
in your bedroom, no right to regulate what you read,  the law should never 
give preferential treatment to one race or ethnicity or sex over another, 
and the criminal justice system should guarantee and protect expansive 
individual  rights.

but in a war you choose sides.

that is because there is no viable center in American politics.  the 
centripetal forces have won.  the shrill screeching morons of the far left 
and the shrill screeching morons of the far right have evacuated the center. 
  and those of us who used to be there had to choose which way to go.  and 
we chose right because the economy and global governance are more important 
than the rest.

and those of you who chose left chose poorly.  and those of you who were and 
are the shrill screeching morons of the left screwed yourselves and the 
center-left and those of us who agree with you about so many things.

and you know if there was a viable middle,  if we worked to create a center 
that mattered,  that fought for America, it would easily win.  because 
America is like me:  generally conservative on matters of economics and 
foreign policy and generally liberal on the rest.

the dumb-as-dirt accusation is that i am somehow a defender of George Bush.  
I guess i am in a way.  because in a war you choose sides.  and he is better 
than the alternatives.  and when the screeching morons of the left have 
nothing wise or innovative or worthwhile to say about the economy or foreign 
policy, when all they offer is knee-jerk nonsensical criticism, the only 
appropriate response is a mocking derisive taunt.  and when i do that it 
seems like i am defending George Bush.  I guess i am in a way.  because in a 
war you choose sides.

but the reality is that i am not a defender of George Bush.  when he 
announces that "intelligent design" should be taught in the nation's science 
classes i recoil with disgust, when he pushes policies to send billions of 
dollars to religious "charities" like Pat Robertson's scam "Operation 
Blessing", i grit my teeth, when the right seriously pushes an agenda which 
includes the elimination of privacy rights, overturning Roe v Wade, when the 
FDA restricts the morning after pill, when Republicans won't fund stem cell 
research, i hang my head.

but in a war you choose sides.  and the economy and global governance comes 
first.  period.

one more thing then i will shut up.

John McCain and Hillary Clinton seem to understand me.  and America.  at 
least they are trying to look like they will fight for the middle.  but the 
shrill screeching morons of the left and the shrill screeching morons of the 
right have a lot of support and the force of centripetal politics is worse 
than any hurricane.  that will be Hillary's fight.  to fight for my vote.  
for America's center.  but hope has a way of withering in the screeching 
shrill.

thank you for reading,
Michael Korcok





From doyle  Fri Sep  2 06:05:22 2005
From: doyle (Doyle Srader)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 06:05:22 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] ans parcher
Message-ID: <431831F2.3030807@sfasu.edu>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/e4faa488/attachment.html 


From trond  Fri Sep  2 07:10:29 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:10:29 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans parcher
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F25138928A4E80AD94ECBADE4A30@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F25138928A4E80AD94ECBADE4A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050902081029.3u9xupogcg48408w@web.mail.umich.edu>

> and you know if there was a viable middle,  if we worked to create a 
> center that mattered,  that fought for America, it would easily win.  
> because America is like me:  generally conservative on matters of 
> economics and foreign policy and generally liberal on the rest.

You may lean this way put the polling data pretty consistently suggests
"America" feels exactly otherwise.

The public is consistently progressive on economic issues, prefers
multilateralism and diplomacy over unilateral force, and is more conservative
than you (though not the GOP) on social issues, excepting "privacy" and some
type of pro-choice position.

There is little doubt that Director Brown and Secretary Chertoff were 
engaged in
spinning the tragedy for political gain (or perhaps more accurately, inept
efforts at damage control) during their dozens of TV appearances while people
were decomposing in the streets.  ('There is water at the Convention 
Center') Ditto for the spectacle of Bush "rushing" back to DC on Day 3 
after insisting
for weeks he could run the world from Crawford.

Do the minions of this administration in their politicizing of this issue
deserve your scorn?  If so, let's hear it.

Or are those who oppose this administration, or who apprehend the facts about
underfunded levee projects, diverted National Guard, etc., supposed to allow
the administration to once again avoid accountability and fix this as a total
shock and in any case the fault of others?

I remember when coaching the Seawolves on the oceans topic that Cornell 
ran this
nasty little FEMA case.  Do you remember?  It struck me then as boring and
small-bore, but the thing was, it brought home the W's, at least when the
debaters didn't mess up.

Why? It rightly pointed out that while it was impossible to predict 
exactly how
and when natural disasters would strike, a large measure of the damage of such
events came in their wake from poor planning that could be changed.  The thing
that made the case so strong, as I recall, was the choice solvency evidence
about how extensive pre-planning for mitigation, evacuation, delivery of
essential services, food, and water, and so forth, would dramatically lessen
the human impact of unpredictable natural disasters.

Things like completing improved levees, pre-positioning supplies, adequate
evacuation measures, funding not cutting FEMA, etc.  Getting your butt down
there with a bunch of food and water.  The little things.

Trond E. Jacobsen




From stannardmatt  Fri Sep  2 07:19:15 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 06:19:15 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] ans stannard
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F263EEDEEFE9B91A3955EE8E4A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F246AF1A021D8C19408D75CD2A30@phx.gbl>

>i am using Katrina to push my political agenda rather than just reacting to 
>Blumenthal in revulsion?

Yes.  Yes you are.  Both in your original and subsequent posts.  In fact, 
you can't seem to help it.  And you keep doing it.  And each subsequent post 
of yours gets more and more political.  I'm not the one saying there's 
anything wrong with that, but you're like a priest preaching abstinence and 
then tossing off while listening to parishoners' confessions.

>
>go ahead, Matt.  explain how this would never have happened in a socialist 
>utopia...  how it is all the fault of capitalism.  you won't because you 
>are better than that.  they aren't.

Natural disasters interact with social and political conditions.  Nothing 
particularly radical about saying that.  Their occurances occasion 
discussion about those conditions.  Good or bad, those discussions are not 
exclusive with mourning the (in my opinion, unnecessary) loss of life, or 
giving aid to victims.  I'd have had a lot more respect for you if you'd 
rationally answered what you saw as unwarranted attacks on Bush rather than 
fallen into a mystic's rage over the violation of some absurd "sacred" 
off-limits tragic space by political conversation.

And stop blaming your supercharged, insulting rhetoric on the decline of the 
political middle in America or the bad arguments made by liberals.  You made 
a choice to become a reactionary after 9-11, to resort to name-calling and 
dismiss and ad hom anyone who questioned anything outside of the party line. 
  You could have had some intellectual integrity and continued to be the 
careful thinker you used to be, but you didn't.  I may be rude, naive, or 
foolishly utopian, but at least I'm not blaming it on other people.

stannard





From alyse.kraus  Fri Sep  2 08:28:00 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Talking heads are failing us......
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b05090206282b2b2017@mail.gmail.com>

While I think it is indeed a sad fact that the majority of the people left 
behind in New Orleans are African Americans, I think that Jackie's post 
misses a few points.
 "Busses are lined up ready to take people out, but not going in. 
How long do they wait?"
 Busses cannot get into to New Orleans now. There are very few ways in and 
out of the city. The main route in is I-10. While parts of I-10 are elevated 
within the city and still above water, entire stretches of the interstate 
are still underwater or damaged to the point where vehicles are unable to 
navigate them. The causeway across Lake Ponchartrain has been absolutely 
destroyed, so that option is also out. There are very few roads in the city 
that aren't under water. Rescuers are trying to get as many people out as 
they can, but there are only so many people that can fit into the boats and 
helicopters. Not to mention that yesterday, someone shot a rescuer as a 
rescue attempt was being made - it's not an easy situation for these rescue 
teams. 
 "To claim the people are lawless and then showing images of mostly black 
people upset because they are dyeing, labeling it as lawlessness --- 
disgusting."
 Numerous officials in both law enforcement and government offices have said 
that people who are "looting" items such as food, water, medicine, and basic 
needs will not be stopped, shot at, or arrested. Where people start talking 
about disgusting displays of lawlessness are when things like this happen: 
There's a Walmart in the Garden District of New Orleans. It closed for the 
storm, but after the storm, employees who were left behind opened the store 
and organized an effort to distribute supplies (water, food, blankets, bug 
spray) to citizens. However, people got restless and eventually overran the 
distribution, broke into the store and ransacked the place. The section of 
the store that was hit the hardest was the guns and ammunition. Every gun 
and almost every last bit of ammunition in the store was stolen. Chances 
are, it might be some of these same guns who are being used to shoot police 
officers and rescuers. That is the lawlessness people are talking about. 
 To take food and water is one thing - those are things necessary to 
survive. But some of the items being taken are guns, jewelry, expensive 
clothing from stores along Canal Street, narcotics from pharmacies, 
electronic equipment, dvds, beer and liquor. 
 As someone who grew up on Florida's gulf coast (near Pensacola), I can say 
from experience that hurricanes are hell on earth. Our area, despite being 
right along the gulf, was decently above sea level and after hurricanes like 
Opal, Ivan, and Dennis many homes were destroyed, entire stretches of 
highway were washed out, power was down for weeks at a time, and supplies 
were low. However, one of the most important things I remember about those 
experiences was the amount of grace and strength people showed. And I don't 
think that is something that is unique to my memories. Entire towns and 
neighborhoods along the Mississipi coast have been destroyed and people 
there are also without power, water, food, or shelter in many cases. 
However, the looting is not nearly as widespread there and there are 
numerous reports of those who have sharing with those who would otherwise go 
without. 
 I think the frustration that many people have expressed, including the 
governor of Louisianna and the mayor of New Orleans, is with the fact that 
people are not taking the things they need, they are stealing items that go 
beyond basic human needs. The government is trying to help. But it's not 
easy. Even through Camille, Andrew, and the four storms that hit Florida 
last year, destruction on this scale is not something that has been 
witnessed. Never has an entire US city been inundated with water. The only 
hurricane in US history that approaches the scale of destruction seen in New 
Orleans is the Galveston hurricane of September 9, 1900. That storm totally 
destroyed the city and took *years* to recover from - and even then, the 
city was not below sea level so the water left after the storm unlike New 
Orleans where it sits in what is essentially a bowl.
 I know that it is terrifying and frustrating to see the images on the new 
from New Orleans. And I know that it seems like nothing is being done. But 
criticizing our government in this forum does not fix things. I promise you 
that people are trying to help. But hurricanes are not something that can be 
recovered from immediately (there are parts of Northwest Florida where 
structures that had just been repaired from Ivan, which hit last September, 
were re-damaged when Hurricane Dennis hit earlier this summer). It takes 
time and patience. The best thing we can all do now is to offer our prayers 
for the citizens of the areas affected and offer our resources to the 
agencies and people trying to help. 
 - Alyse
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/23fa478a/attachment.htm 


From stannardmatt  Fri Sep  2 08:40:15 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 07:40:15 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] Enter Wyoming tournament on debateresults.com
Message-ID: <BAY101-F426B152D09985B6BB6E94AD2A30@phx.gbl>

The entry form for the Laramie Invitational is now up at 
www.debateresults.com.

Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

stannard





From alyse.kraus  Fri Sep  2 09:01:22 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:01:22 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b05090207014ddabe58@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone else think it's sad that at a time when hundreds of thousands of 
people along the gulf coast have lost everything, we're seeing this kind of 
crap on edebate. I'm sorry, but I think that says something seriously bad 
about our community. Debate is supposed to be an activity that educates us 
about the world around us, in hopes that we can then become better citizens 
of that world who are willing and able to help in times of need. Instead, 
less than a week after what could be the most devastating event in US 
history, some of the smartest minds in the country are on this list 
name-calling, fingerpointing, and generally missing the point by about a 
mile. 
 I'm just as politically opinionated as the next person, and I too have my 
ideas and theories about why things are the way they are and what should be 
done - but I don't think now is the time for that. Maybe I feel this way 
because, another 50-75 miles east at landfall, and the images on tv could 
have been of my hometown and my family and friends, or maybe it's because 
I've lived on the gulf coast and dealt with hurricanes and evacuations and 
the aftermath for most of my life. Either way, this is utterly absurd. 
Despite what many seem inclined to think, this natural disaster and the 
aftermath stems from causes that go WAY beyond George W. Bush. And the 
solution will also go way beyond George W. Bush. The starving of protected 
wetlands happened long before Bush was in office - the very levees built to 
protect the city have stopped the Mississippi from flooding and depositing 
silt and sediment needed to build up those same wetlands - and that's 
something that started in the 60's. If you'd really like to gain a better 
understanding of just how New Orleans got to the point it's at now, read the 
following serious of articles from the Times-Picayune. Even though they were 
written years before this storm, they read like the current headlines of 
CNN.
 http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/
 But honestly, I find it hard to grasp that some of the smartest people I 
know are on this list throwing around terms like "cumdumpster", 
"retard-in-chief" and the like, when a several hundred mile wide swath of 
America's gulf coast is facing something few of us could imagine. 
  I really think our community is better than this.
  - Alyse
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/2c14fa83/attachment.html 


From CCooper  Fri Sep  2 09:28:56 2005
From: CCooper (Chris Cooper)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:28:56 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Katrina
In-Reply-To: <20050901233920.48217.qmail@web50913.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200509021423.j82ENVjm010735@smtp2.dti.net>

I'm really quite intrigued by this notion of turning a blind eye to the
looting of survival items during this (or any) crisis.  It seems there is an
almost universal support for it.  When survival is at stake, it's perfectly
legitimate for people to steal private property?   Is that what we're
saying?  Or is it only when survival is at stake in the instance of a
natural disaster or act of God?  And if so, why only then?

 

And while your pondering that.

 

It also seems like there is an almost universal disdain for folks who are
pilfering NON-essential items like TVs and guns.  We should shoot those
people on site.  They are contributing to a sense of anarchy and lawlessness
and taking advantage of the disaster for personal gain, right?  But, what if
the person is looting the TV to TRADE for essential items like food and
water?  Is that permissible?  Would they have to prove it?  Would it be
acceptable for them to USE the TV until such time as they have the
opportunity to trade it for food/water/etc or is that a punishable offense?

 

I'm just really dumbstruck how a situation like this reveals the
arbitrariness inherent in our concepts of private property.  Hrmmmm.

 

COOP

 

  _____  

From: edebate-admin at ndtceda.com [mailto:edebate-admin at ndtceda.com] On Behalf
Of Duane Hyland
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:39 PM
To: ucodebate at att.net; scottelliott at grandecom.net; edebate at ndtceda.com
Subject: Re: [eDebate] Katrina

 

HI, It turns out that in one of the states ( I didn't catch the full story)
that the legal code does allow for the looting of food and other items
necessary for survival - but not for luxury items. Which, I think is good.
You'd have to be really cruel to say that people didn't deserve food and the
like.

 

I'm not sure I agree with shooting looters though - even if they boost a tv
set or something. I mean, people that are afraid, or angry, or, most likely,
both, do stupid stuff. I'd say arrest them, get them to calm down, feed
them, whatever..but shooting them seems really harsh to me.

 

Duane

 

"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of
the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that
person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind. If the
opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error
for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the
clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its
collision with error." John S. Mill

  _____  

Start <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=34442/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs>  your day
with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/8fc38f2a/attachment.htm 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 09:42:39 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 07:42:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Katrina
In-Reply-To: <200509021423.j82ENVjm010735@smtp2.dti.net>
Message-ID: <20050902144239.90281.qmail@web50912.mail.yahoo.com>

My God...Coop and Jason Stone taking making me feel too liberal and not hard enough on the looters? What next???  Does Doyle admit he's a Bush loyalist? Will Parcher admit Bush is God? Will James Carvile run for the Senate as a Republican? Surely this is a sign of the end being close. LOL.
 
I think it stands to reason that most people will overlook the looting of food in a crisis - you need food and water to live, who is going to tell starving, thirsty people that they shouldn't have things to eat or water to drink? Who would charge people in that condition? The merchant is going to lose the stock anyway - to the conditions, so why not allow it to benefit people? However, most people will not show the same level of consideration to someone stealing a TV - unless you're a Circus performer, they aren't edible commodities. But, I tend to think that people do stupid stuff in a crisis, things they wouldn't normally do otherwise (reference the guy in Mississippi who shot his sister to death over a bag of ice - he was out of his mind) - so you shouldn't shoot them, just arrest them, get them fed, calmed down and then see what's up - but shooting someone for doing stuff in a moment of panic doesn't make sense. Now, if we are talking about the bastards who raped people in the
 Super Dome, by all means shoot them - that's not panic, that's depravity - but really? But really, calling for the  shooting of someone over a TV Set? That makes no sense, especially given what the vast majority of this community thinks about violence.
 
Duane 



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/bc4f1cd0/attachment.html 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 09:47:02 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 07:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <ffc8ea7b05090207014ddabe58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050902144702.64616.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com>

I have to agree with Alyse. Like I said before - do we have to turn EVERYTHING into a "Bush Sucks" "Bush Rules" momement? And, like I told Parcher back channel - there's something especially undiginified about a PhD calling the President "Retard in Chief" the same way it's not diginfied to call Blumenthal a "cumdumpster" I mean - come on people, you are some of the brighest people in the nation and "Retard in Chief" and "Cumdumpster" are the terms you use????? UGH.
 
Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








		
---------------------------------
 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/0b728900/attachment.htm 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 09:50:47 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 07:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <ffc8ea7b05090207014ddabe58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050902145047.91984.qmail@web50912.mail.yahoo.com>

One thought - I wonder if there was a movement to blame the McKinnely administration for the Gavelston hurricane disaster in 1900? Did the gov mess up on New Orleans? Yes..absolutely. But now isn't the time for blame. Help people now, cast barbs (and they are richly deserved) later on. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/ff376ecd/attachment.html 


From debate  Fri Sep  2 09:51:04 2005
From: debate (debate at ou.edu)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:51:04 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Talk about silencing voices....
Message-ID: <8ddbae662b7a.43182088@ou.edu>

So I was listening to the NAACP speakers concerning what is going on in New Orleans.

Jesse Jackson Jr, was just beginning to talk about the medias focus on the situation, but General Strock came on, they switched over, talked about levies, then shited back to Jesse Jackson, Jr when he was finishing his last line. 

something interesting to consider.......






From debatekorea  Fri Sep  2 09:54:27 2005
From: debatekorea (Jason Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:54:27 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Katrina conversation
In-Reply-To: <ffc8ea7b05090207014ddabe58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F22FD3CCB9884E5566A6B99AEA30@phx.gbl>

On Friday nights I teach an English conversation class to a small group of 
Buddhist NGO activists and scholars.  Tonite, prior to class, one of them 
mentioned how terrible things looked on the news about New Orleans and the 
gulf coast.

I told her that I personally felt relieved it had now passed on and had not 
hit Alabama directly because much of my family lives in Mobile.......they 
were not entirely spared as my aunt had half of her house crushed by a pine 
tree, but mercifully no one was in the computer room at the time and 
everyone was safe.  At least it was damage that is reparable.

My Buddhist student then responded by saying she was happy to hear my family 
was safe and that they were not one of the angry and abandoned refugees 
being shown worldwide who are living in front of the New Orleans convention 
center.  She made a comparison to the tsunami and mentioned she was amazed 
at how slowly things seem to be getting dealt with, and that this surprised 
her since it was the US.

Finally, she asked why all those refugees were black.....she asked me if all 
of the residents of New Orleans were black, or was there some reason why all 
the stranded folks on television were black....

Others have already said what I was thinking....its a good question and none 
of the answers are very good.

Lets be honest ya'll, folks in the status quo have clearly dropped the ball, 
and its weak to suggest that we shouldnt hold them accountable.  It isnt 
figner pointing, just ask the mayor of New Orleans.  CNN International just 
aired the entirety of his radio interview, incredibly powerful stuff from a 
man on the front lines.

It was a national tragedy, now its an international disgrace.  We can 
engineer a revolution in a foreign country (or two) but we cant help our own 
citizens.  Homeland Security??????


Jason L. Jarvis
Director of Debate, International Center for Speech and Debate
Kyung Hee University, Seoul , Korea
*********
Asian Debate Institute
http://debatekorea.blogspirit.com
**********
Korea Debate Listserv
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/koreadebatelist/





From alyse.kraus  Fri Sep  2 10:06:18 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:06:18 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Re: Katrina conversation
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F22FD3CCB9884E5566A6B99AEA30@phx.gbl>
References: <ffc8ea7b05090207014ddabe58@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BAY107-F22FD3CCB9884E5566A6B99AEA30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b0509020806226a34d5@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first post but I in no way think we should 
abandon the American tradition of demanding accountability from our leaders. 
What I do think is that there is a way to do it and a way not to do it. 
Duane captured the spirit of my post perfectly. Why are the smartest people 
I know calling people "cumdumpsters", "retards" and "douchbags" at a time 
like this? I really think there are more effective, articulate, and 
appropriate ways to level our criticism. And I also think that criticism 
should be directed to the right people. The Bush administration certainly 
has a hand in this, but it certainly doesn't deserve all of the blame. 
 I was serious when I posted that link to the Times-Picayune series and 
encouraged people to read the series. It was written in 2002 but the damage 
described could have been written yesterday. However, one thing the article 
is really good at doing is examining the history involved in a disaster like 
this. Responsibilty for the widespread damage we see on the news goes back 
for decades. Some could even say it goes back farther than that to people 
who settled on low-lying areas and barrier islands that would have best been 
left un-inhabited. But no matter how far back you want to look, it's 
impossible to ignore the fact that, if we're going to hold people 
accountable for this tragedy, we're going to have to go far beyond the 
current administration.
 - Alyse

 On 9/2/05, Jason Jarvis <debatekorea at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> 
> On Friday nights I teach an English conversation class to a small group of
> Buddhist NGO activists and scholars. Tonite, prior to class, one of them
> mentioned how terrible things looked on the news about New Orleans and the
> gulf coast.
> 
> I told her that I personally felt relieved it had now passed on and had 
> not
> hit Alabama directly because much of my family lives in Mobile.......they
> were not entirely spared as my aunt had half of her house crushed by a 
> pine
> tree, but mercifully no one was in the computer room at the time and
> everyone was safe. At least it was damage that is reparable.
> 
> My Buddhist student then responded by saying she was happy to hear my 
> family
> was safe and that they were not one of the angry and abandoned refugees
> being shown worldwide who are living in front of the New Orleans 
> convention
> center. She made a comparison to the tsunami and mentioned she was amazed
> at how slowly things seem to be getting dealt with, and that this 
> surprised
> her since it was the US.
> 
> Finally, she asked why all those refugees were black.....she asked me if 
> all
> of the residents of New Orleans were black, or was there some reason why 
> all
> the stranded folks on television were black....
> 
> Others have already said what I was thinking....its a good question and 
> none
> of the answers are very good.
> 
> Lets be honest ya'll, folks in the status quo have clearly dropped the 
> ball,
> and its weak to suggest that we shouldnt hold them accountable. It isnt
> figner pointing, just ask the mayor of New Orleans. CNN International just
> aired the entirety of his radio interview, incredibly powerful stuff from 
> a
> man on the front lines.
> 
> It was a national tragedy, now its an international disgrace. We can
> engineer a revolution in a foreign country (or two) but we cant help our 
> own
> citizens. Homeland Security??????
> 
> 
> Jason L. Jarvis
> Director of Debate, International Center for Speech and Debate
> Kyung Hee University, Seoul , Korea
> *********
> Asian Debate Institute
> http://debatekorea.blogspirit.com
> **********
> Korea Debate Listserv
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/koreadebatelist/
> 
> 
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/05a5dca5/attachment.htm 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 10:16:36 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:16:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Katrina conversation
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F22FD3CCB9884E5566A6B99AEA30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050902151636.56568.qmail@web50915.mail.yahoo.com>

In case anyone is wondering, according to the news reports - 67% of the residents of New Orleans, within the city limits, are African American. When you start factoring in the group that is living in poverty, the figures go up sharply. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/7b986053/attachment.html 


From spamchang  Fri Sep  2 10:18:47 2005
From: spamchang (s.y.c.)
Date: Fri,  2 Sep 2005 08:18:47 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] blog from new orleans
Message-ID: <1125674327.43186d5714cb8@webmail.stanford.edu>

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

relevant excerpt:

Jesse Jackson
Dear Sir:

Respectfully, I submit that you should shut the hell up. Looting and
lawlessness IS the problem. The National Guard choppers are BEING SHOT AT.
The NOPD are BEING SHOT AT. You want to focus on the levee? So do they, but
check this out: THEY CAN'T UNTIL THE MOB STOPS ATTACKING THE RESCUE
OPERATION.

I know you're looking at this situation with concern for the racial
implications of the deterioration of civilization out here, but this is
bigger than whether people are going to be racists after this is over. This
is about rescuing the masses i.e. life and death.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and blame your stupid
comments on your lack of knowledge of the situation. Don't prove me a fool
for doing so.

Regards,

Michael Barnett




From joe_tung  Fri Sep  2 11:01:38 2005
From: joe_tung (Joseph Tung)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:01:38 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <ffc8ea7b05090207014ddabe58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F42AB7FCFB9519FF6E4DFE9F8A30@phx.gbl>

Alyse,

I agree to a certain degree, but at the same time, I hope people will strive 
to do both.  Often times, our community speaks out, but does not act out.

Here in Houston, the opinions of the president are abundant, but so are the 
many plans to cancel Labor Day plans to stay in town and contribute to the 
many efforts dedicated to the wave of thousands and thousands of evacuees.  
The "water cooler" discussions this morning consist of the firm's efforts to 
raise money, people opening up their homes to evacuees, and our personal 
weekend plans to commit goods, services, and time to those who need it more 
than we do.

But, there has also been a discussion regarding the federal government's 
response, as well as the president's responsibility during this crisis.

Still, you're right about the discussion on eDebate.  Hopefully, there will 
be debaters across the country today who will continue to open their mouths 
and speak, but also open their wallets, their homes, and their schedules, to 
give in anyway possible, to those who truly need it.

Joseph Tung

----Original Message Follows----
From: Alyse Kraus <alyse.kraus at gmail.com>
Reply-To: alyse.kraus at gmail.com
To: edebate <edebate at ndtceda.com>
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:01:22 -0400

Does anyone else think it's sad that at a time when hundreds of thousands of
people along the gulf coast have lost everything, we're seeing this kind of
crap on edebate. I'm sorry, but I think that says something seriously bad
about our community. Debate is supposed to be an activity that educates us
about the world around us, in hopes that we can then become better citizens
of that world who are willing and able to help in times of need. Instead,
less than a week after what could be the most devastating event in US
history, some of the smartest minds in the country are on this list
name-calling, fingerpointing, and generally missing the point by about a
mile.
  I'm just as politically opinionated as the next person, and I too have my
ideas and theories about why things are the way they are and what should be
done - but I don't think now is the time for that. Maybe I feel this way
because, another 50-75 miles east at landfall, and the images on tv could
have been of my hometown and my family and friends, or maybe it's because
I've lived on the gulf coast and dealt with hurricanes and evacuations and
the aftermath for most of my life. Either way, this is utterly absurd.
Despite what many seem inclined to think, this natural disaster and the
aftermath stems from causes that go WAY beyond George W. Bush. And the
solution will also go way beyond George W. Bush. The starving of protected
wetlands happened long before Bush was in office - the very levees built to
protect the city have stopped the Mississippi from flooding and depositing
silt and sediment needed to build up those same wetlands - and that's
something that started in the 60's. If you'd really like to gain a better
understanding of just how New Orleans got to the point it's at now, read the
following serious of articles from the Times-Picayune. Even though they were
written years before this storm, they read like the current headlines of
CNN.
  http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/
  But honestly, I find it hard to grasp that some of the smartest people I
know are on this list throwing around terms like "cumdumpster",
"retard-in-chief" and the like, when a several hundred mile wide swath of
America's gulf coast is facing something few of us could imagine.
   I really think our community is better than this.
   - Alyse





From ucodebate  Fri Sep  2 11:52:54 2005
From: ucodebate (ucodebate at att.net)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:52:54 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
Message-ID: <090220051652.27081.43188366000556BE000069C921603763160A9B0E0D0A0B010C9A@att.net>

McKinnely didin't have CNN showing the hurricane cruise through Florida and gather steam.  McKinnely didn't see what Bush should have seen.  A hurricane with a well organizied and developed eye several miles across and wind gusting between a 140-170 miles an hour.  A hurricane more than 200 miles in diameter.

with scores of years worth of advances in technology and increases in population, effective governance has gotten more complicated.  In short your argument from a parallel case is "weak sauce".

jason--
Director of Debate 
100 N. University Ave. 
Department of Communication 
University of Central Oklahoma 
Edmond, OK 73034 
(405) 974-5584 (o) 
bronze.ucok.edu/debate_team/ 



-------------- Original message from Duane Hyland <privethedge at yahoo.com>: -------------- 


One thought - I wonder if there was a movement to blame the McKinnely administration for the Gavelston hurricane disaster in 1900? Did the gov mess up on New Orleans? Yes..absolutely. But now isn't the time for blame. Help people now, cast barbs (and they are richly deserved) later on. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind? If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/f712eef4/attachment.htm 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 12:00:05 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:00:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <090220051652.27081.43188366000556BE000069C921603763160A9B0E0D0A0B010C9A@att.net>
Message-ID: <20050902170005.62998.qmail@web50913.mail.yahoo.com>

No, Jason..you jumped too soon..lol..sorry. If you read "Isaac's Storm' you'll see that his administration was criticized. Not because they didn't act fast enough, which they didn't, but because they had surpressed what amounted to accurate (and this in those days) forecasting of the size and strength of the storm done by the Cubans..because nobody trusted that anyone other than white, American males could accurately predict hurricanes even though, at hte time, the Cubans were the world leaders in such things. He got the equivalent, for those times, of what Bush is getting today. My point was that Presidents get blamed for this stuff - not that they don't. Bush should have been worried, should have acted sooner - no argument. But, it's always been the case as well.
 
Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/83756faf/attachment.html 


From alyse.kraus  Fri Sep  2 12:16:54 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:16:54 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <090220051652.27081.43188366000556BE000069C921603763160A9B0E0D0A0B010C9A@att.net>
References: <090220051652.27081.43188366000556BE000069C921603763160A9B0E0D0A0B010C9A@att.net>
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b05090210163a4e05f9@mail.gmail.com>

Although the parallel isn't perfect, don't dismiss it so quickly. 
 With scores of years worth of advances in technology, we still can't know 
where a hurricane will go or how strong it will be when it gets there. Last 
year, forcasters (using the latest tech) thought Charley would make landfall 
as a Category 2 strorm near Tampa. Instead it made landfall 90 miles north 
as a category 4 (after strengthening dramatically in a period of few hours). 
Hurricane forcasting is an imperfect science. Not to mention that, every 
time the government tells people to evacuate and they do and the storm 
doesn't come, they become less likely to leave next time. I witnessed this 
phenomenon first-hand last summer. I worked as a front desk agent at the 
Sandestin Golf and Beach Resort in Destin, Florida. Through several 
hurricanes early in the summer - Bonnie, Charley, and Frances - our town was 
always in that cone of possible landfall. And people would leave. But, after 
3 times of being told we might get hit, and then not, when hurricane Ivan 
was forecast to affect the gulf area, people didn't leave. They were told it 
was headed for (ironically) New Orleans, and when it turned at the last 
minute, a lot of people were caught unprepared. The loss of life wasn't 
anything on the scale of what we're seeing with Katrina, but any time a Cat 
4 makes landfall, it's not fun. 
 This kind of thing has nothing to do with the President. Also, numerous 
accounts of the 1900 Galveston hurricane mention that Cuban meteorologists 
had sent telegrams to the US warning of a devasting hurricane that had 
passed over Cuba and into the gulf. And the US ignored them. To me this 
seems just as bad as Bush "dismissing" the NOAA (which I doubt is true). Not 
to mention that individuals on the island, including the US Weather Service 
meteorologist there ignored numerous warning signs of the storms approach 
(waves, wind, huge drops in pressure). In fact, in Galveston, there are 
stories of people who came from out of town to look at the big waves that 
were making their way ashore in advance of the storm. 
 And if you read the Times-Picayune series of articles, they detail how, for 
centuries now, people have built on low-lying areas in southern Louisianna. 
Then a hurricane will come through (the story about Last Island is a good 
example) and destroy low-lying land, leave it underwater, and people move 
inland by a few miles. And it's a cycle. After New Orleans got hammered by a 
few hurricanes in the early 20th century (1940's I believe) a system of 
levees was designed. Then in the 60's Hurricane Betsy came in and 
essentially proved the levees worthless. So the levees were raised and pumps 
were installed. All of this demonstrates a point: we tend to worry about 
disaster preparedness only after a disaster. Before 9/11 very few people 
designed buildings to withstand planes being flown into them. Before 
hurricanes in the 40's New Orleans had little to no protection. Before the 
1900 storm, Galveston didn't even have a seawall. 
 I'm not saying this belated response is a good thing, but that it is 
something that has been proven to hold true over time. Another consideration 
is the fact that, often times, things designed to protect us, end up hurting 
us more. For centuries the Mississippi would flood it's banks every year and 
then deposit tons of sediment into marshlands that served as barriers to 
storm surges and helped weaken storms before they moved inland. Now, due the 
systems of levees and canals designed to protect cities like New Orleans 
(most of which were built in the last 50-75 years), all of that silt ends up 
in the Gulf. The Gulf in turn has been steading moving northward encroaching 
upon more and more land and essentially turning New Orleans into a city 
surrouned by water on all sides.
 None of this, however, is Bush's fault. Nor is it Clinton's fault. Or the 
Mayor of New Orleans, or the governor of Louisiana. It goes much farther 
back. We could all do with a bit of a history lesson before we start playing 
the fingerpointing game.
 - Alyse
 
 On 9/2/05, ucodebate at att.net <ucodebate at att.net> wrote: 
> 
>  McKinnely didin't have CNN showing the hurricane cruise through Florida 
> and gather steam. McKinnely didn't see what Bush should have seen. A 
> hurricane with a well organizied and developed eye several miles across and 
> wind gusting between a 140-170 miles an hour. A hurricane more than 200 
> miles in diameter.
>  with scores of years worth of advances in technology and increases in 
> population, effective governance has gotten more complicated. In short your 
> argument from a parallel case is "weak sauce".
>  jason--
> Director of Debate 
> 100 N. University Ave. 
> Department of Communication 
> University of Central Oklahoma 
> Edmond, OK 73034 
> (405) 974-5584 (o) 
> bronze.ucok.edu/debate_team/ <http://bronze.ucok.edu/debate_team/> 
> 
> -------------- Original message from Duane Hyland <privethedge at yahoo.com>: 
> -------------- 
> 
> One thought - I wonder if there was a movement to blame the McKinnely 
> administration for the Gavelston hurricane disaster in 1900? Did the gov 
> mess up on New Orleans? Yes..absolutely. But now isn't the time for blame. 
> Help people now, cast barbs (and they are richly deserved) later on. Duane
> 
> 
>     "You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
> 
> "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of 
> the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that 
> person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind? If the 
> opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error 
> for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the 
> clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its 
> collision with error." John S. Mill
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/98d14374/attachment.htm 


From michelle_lancast  Fri Sep  2 13:02:21 2005
From: michelle_lancast (Michelle Lancaster)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:02:21 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
Message-ID: <BAY102-F41B301603BB2FB4E09FE09F9A30@phx.gbl>

Once again, I think despite all the claims to 'look at the big picture' ie 
the human suffering, those quick to head off any discussion of culpability 
have missed the point.

While we can discuss the conditions and responsibilty for those that created 
the storm, the ORIGINAL edebate posts were simply discussing the fact that 
it is without a doubt a federal and state myopia that has left New Orleans 
in a state that will take years to recover from.  Even Duane agreed with 
this sentiment - the lack of an evacuation route, the lack of adequate 
personnel and equipment to respond to this level of crisis (wonder where 
those national guard troops are. . .and those helicopters...and who sent 
them there, hmmm) and the lack, STILL, of any plan to deal with this 
situation as it currently exists.  Flyovers are cute photo ops, not a 
strategy.

And let's get real - the administration made the decision to divert levee 
funds to Iraq.  Would that have prevented the deluge of water that covers 
the city now?  Unfortunately, we will never know.  For a former governor so 
close to the Gulf of Mexico and who's seen the damage hurricanes can cause, 
that's inexcusable to me.  Judy's comment on the report for the NOAA, whose 
funding has been gutted by yall's GOP buddies and systematically ignored, is 
pertinent here, too.  Without a hint of irony, the front page of the Post 
Wednesday was covered with hurricane reports and photos, with a small 
article under the fold about how the Bush admin was moving to relax 
pollution control efforts at power plants.  Warming the Gulf of Mexico via 
the massive pollutants down there on the Coast increases the likelihood of 
hurricanes.

In the wake of such a devastating blow, we should be focused on (a) how to 
deal with the immediate situation and (b) how to prevent this from happening 
again.  From my reading, that's what the posts dealt with.  Bush gets a big 
fat F on both fronts.

And for about the last time, if you're a big ole supporter of the party that 
invented the wedge issue, divide and conquer strategy for governing the 
nation, stop lecturing the rest of us on our diviseness.  Its not division - 
its demanding accountability and asking tough questions.





From Alfred.Snider  Fri Sep  2 13:08:31 2005
From: Alfred.Snider (Alfred C. Snider)
Date: Fri,  2 Sep 2005 14:08:31 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] International Debate Academy
Message-ID: <20050902140831.35wdygio1qbockok@webmail.uvm.edu>

THERE IS STILL TIME TO BECOME PART OF THIS AWESOME EVENT!

INTERNATIONAL DEBATE ACADEMY

Location: Slovenj Gradec - Peace Messenger City, Slovenia
Date(s): 19 November 2005 to 26 November 2005

An intensive debate training & debate tournament & a lot of fun. It is organised
for all university students - those with a lot of debate experience and also
those with none and those who will become university students next year. It is
organized by ZIP ? Pro et Contra, Institute of Culture of Dialogue, Slovenia,
and WDI ? World Debate Institute, Vermont, USA. Head of Trainers is Alfred C.
Snider, worldwide known professor of debate from the World Debate Institute.
The topic of the IDAS 2005 will be international security. Participants will be
provided with a research package that will include basic information about the
topics covered. The essence of the Academy will be interactive workshops, based
on practice. At the end of the Academy, there will be a tournament in British
Parliamentary Style. We have already organised Debate Academy in 2003 and 2004.
Academy 2004 WAS a huge success - we had 70 participants from 13 countries,
trainers from USA, England, Slovenia, and Serbia. This year we have an even
more international faculty.

Type: Student Training
Language(s): English

Contact: Primoz Karnar
Tel: +386 31 347 825
Fax: +386 14 317 333
e-mail: IDAS2005 at yahoo.com
Website: http://www.ljudmila.org/debata/en

Entry Fee: 100 Euro includes food and housing
Open To: university students
Entry Deadline: Thursday, September 15, 2005

Notes
Only for UNIVERSITY STUDENTS and those entering university.

After the participants submit the online application on
http://www.ljudmila.org/debata/en they will have to write a short case analysis
in order to be accepted.

Topics
International security

Additional Information:

INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY DEBATE ACADEMY, Slovenj Gradec, 19th to 26th of
November 2005

TENTATIVE SCHEDULE

Saturday, 19th of November:  registration from 12.00 ? 18.00
18.00-19.00 Dinner
19.00 Opening ceremony
19.15  Lecture: British Parliamentary Debate Format, Role of the speakers, Note
? taking
20. 30  Demonstration  debate

Sunday, 20th of November
8.45   Morning Assembly
9.00 ? 10.30  Lecture: Public Speaking, Method
11.00 ? 13.00 Small groups: exercises  public speaking
13.00 ? 14.30 Lunch
14.30 Motion announced
15.00 ? 16.45 Practice debate and feedback
17.00 ? 18.00 Lecture: International security today, Part 1:
Fight against terrorism.
18.00 ? 19.30 Dinner
19.30 Motion announced
20.00 ? 21.30 Practice debate and feedback

Monday, 21st of November
8.45 Morning Assembly
9.00 ? 10.30 Lecture; Argumentation  & Refutation
11.00 ? 13.00 Small groups: exercises argumentation & refutation
13.00 ? 14.30 Lunch
14.30 Motion announced
15.00 ? 16.45 Practice debate and feedback
17.00 ? 18.00 Lecture: International security, Part 2:
 Relationship between UN and USA.
18.00 ? 19.30 Dinner
19.30 Motion announced
20.00 ? 21.30 Practice debate and feedback

Tuesday, 22nd of November

8.45 Morning Assembly
9.00 ? 10.30 Lecture; Government Strategy
11.00 ? 13.00 Small groups: exercises case building & extending
13.00 ? 14.00 Lunch
14.00 ? 15.30  Electives
16.00 ? 18.30 Reception  with the Mayor  and Public Round table discussion
about international security and UN and USA relationship with USA Ambassador in
Slovenia  Mr Robertson (confirmed) and other guests speakers (to be announced)
18.30 ? 19.30 Dinner
19.30 Motion announced
20.00 ? 21.30 Practice debate and feedback

Wensday, 23rd of November
8.45     Morning Assembly
9.00 ? 10.30 Lecture: Opposition strategies
11.00 ? 13.00 Small groups: exercises opposition strategies
13.00 ? 14.30 Lunch
14.30 Motion announced
15.00 ? 16.30 Practice debate and feedback
16.45 ? 18.00 Lecture: Electives
18.00 ? 19.30 Dinner
19.30 Motion announced
20.00 ? 21.30 Practice debate and feedback

Thursday, 24th of November
8.45 Morning Assembly
9.00 ? 10.30 Lecture: Points of information & Manner
11.00 ? 13.00 Small groups: exercises points of information
13.00 ? 14.30 Lunch
14.30 ? 15.45 Electives
16.00 Motion announced
16.30  Tournament: Round 1
18.00 ? 19.30 Dinner
19.30 Motion announced
20.00 ? 21.30 Tournament: Round 2

Friday, 25th of November
8.30 Motion announced
9.00 Tournament, Round 3
11.00 Motion announced
11.30 Tournament: Round 4
13.00 ? 14.30 Lunch
14.30 Motion announced
15.00 Tournament: Round 5
17,.00 Motion announced
17.30 Semi ? finals
19.00 ? 20.00 Last Dinner
20.00 Motion announced
20.30 Finals
22.00 Closing Ceremony

Saturday, 26th of November: Departure

Faculty

Head of the trainers: Dr Alfred C. Snider, University of Vermont, USA
Trainers:

Jason Jarvis,  Kyung Hee University, Seoul, South Korea, also director of Asian
Debate Institute and World Debate Institute-Asia.

Branka Josimov, ACCD Serbia and Montenegro

Sam Nelson, Cornell University, USA. Has directed his program to a USA national
championship.

Maja Nenadovic, Doctoral program  student at the Utrecht University, Netherlands

Liisa Past, Post graduate student at Oslo University, Estonian Debating Society,
Estonia

Loke Wing Fatt, Society of Associated Inter-tertiary Debaters, Singapore

Mateja Peter, Post graduate student at Cambridge University, Za in proti, zavod
za kulturo dialoga, Slovenia

Jure Pozgan, Za in proti, zavod za kulturo dialoga, Slovenia

Dr Omar Salahuddin, Multimedia University, Malaysia.

Bojana Skrt, Za in proti, zavod za kulturo dialoga, Slovenia

Masako Suzuki, Doctoral Program Student, Keio University, Tokio, Japan. Twice
national champion in Japan.

Dr Joe Zompetti, Illinois State University, USA

More to be added.

MOTIONS TO BE DEBATED (research packet will be provided, begin now!)

This house believes that China is a threat to international security.

This house believes UN should replace USA in Iraq.

This house believes UN and USA should cooperate when fighting terrorism.

This house supports the admission of Turkey into the EU.

This house supports Chechnya becoming an independent state.

This house supports the 6-parties talks concerning the sitatuation in Northeast
Asia.

This house supports that the EU should have an army.

This house would take military measures to stop human rights abuses in Sudan.

This house believes that the USA is the most dangerous terrorist.

This house would stop work on the nuclear enrichment program in Iran.

This house would negotiate with terrorists.

This house would solve the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

This house believes Taiwan has a right to become an independent country.

This house would stop producing  nuclear weapon.

This house would destroy all the nuclear weapons in the world.

This house supports the Kurds.

This house fears Pakistan.

This house believes that UN peacekeeping troops do more harm than good.

This house would close USA military basis in Asia.

This house believes that Africa can secure itself.

This house believes that the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is a failure.

This house believes that Latin America should become a demilitarized zone.

This house believes that military participation in efforts to control illegal
drugs has been a failure.

This house believes that all nations should adopt a no first use policy for
nuclear weapons.

This house would develop a new generation of nuclear weapons.

This house believes that nuclear electrical power is a security danger.

This house believes that open borders can be a significant threat to
international security.

This house would demilitarize space.

This house would make the United Nations responsible for outer space security
and development.

This house would not allow human settlement of the moon.

This house believes that the more we venture into outer space the more secure
Earth becomes.

This house believes that current security measures have not made airline travel
more secure.

This house believes that those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve
neither.






Questions?

Ask.







From jbhdb8  Fri Sep  2 13:17:46 2005
From: jbhdb8 (Josh Hoe)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:17:46 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F41B301603BB2FB4E09FE09F9A30@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-F41B301603BB2FB4E09FE09F9A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <f6ec14bb05090211177882d738@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe I am just being naiive here, and certainly not trying to get in a 
fight....but since there has been like one grade 5 hurricane in NO in like 
forever maybe....just maybe.....they did a CBA and assumed it was a lower 
budgetary priority and that kicked alot of good people in the butt.
 Josh

 On 9/2/05, Michelle Lancaster <michelle_lancast at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> Once again, I think despite all the claims to 'look at the big picture' ie
> the human suffering, those quick to head off any discussion of culpability
> have missed the point.
> 
> While we can discuss the conditions and responsibilty for those that 
> created
> the storm, the ORIGINAL edebate posts were simply discussing the fact that
> it is without a doubt a federal and state myopia that has left New Orleans
> in a state that will take years to recover from. Even Duane agreed with
> this sentiment - the lack of an evacuation route, the lack of adequate
> personnel and equipment to respond to this level of crisis (wonder where
> those national guard troops are. . .and those helicopters...and who sent
> them there, hmmm) and the lack, STILL, of any plan to deal with this
> situation as it currently exists. Flyovers are cute photo ops, not a
> strategy.
> 
> And let's get real - the administration made the decision to divert levee
> funds to Iraq. Would that have prevented the deluge of water that covers
> the city now? Unfortunately, we will never know. For a former governor so
> close to the Gulf of Mexico and who's seen the damage hurricanes can 
> cause,
> that's inexcusable to me. Judy's comment on the report for the NOAA, whose
> funding has been gutted by yall's GOP buddies and systematically ignored, 
> is
> pertinent here, too. Without a hint of irony, the front page of the Post
> Wednesday was covered with hurricane reports and photos, with a small
> article under the fold about how the Bush admin was moving to relax
> pollution control efforts at power plants. Warming the Gulf of Mexico via
> the massive pollutants down there on the Coast increases the likelihood of
> hurricanes.
> 
> In the wake of such a devastating blow, we should be focused on (a) how to
> deal with the immediate situation and (b) how to prevent this from 
> happening
> again. From my reading, that's what the posts dealt with. Bush gets a big
> fat F on both fronts.
> 
> And for about the last time, if you're a big ole supporter of the party 
> that
> invented the wedge issue, divide and conquer strategy for governing the
> nation, stop lecturing the rest of us on our diviseness. Its not division 
> -
> its demanding accountability and asking tough questions.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/8577a933/attachment.html 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 13:19:02 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:19:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F41B301603BB2FB4E09FE09F9A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050902181902.18120.qmail@web50910.mail.yahoo.com>

LOL..Yes, "even" I say that the government didn't do a good job at all on this one. F, that's for sure. However, if we are casting blame about levies - let's be fair - EVERYONE knew the levies couldn't do anything against a 4 or a 5, and would barely, just, hold against a 3. It was known for years and years and years. While Bush did nothing to help the situation, and even did a lot to hurt the situation, everyone is complicit because they all looked at the pricetag and then the risk and said no. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/b4bd90cc/attachment.htm 


From wnewnam  Fri Sep  2 13:23:50 2005
From: wnewnam (William Newnam)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:23:50 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something being offered for college students in NO
Message-ID: <000a01c5afeb$7a2e7ed0$acc48caa@emorycard.emory.edu>

One of our alums just sent this message to us.

In addition, I know that Georgia State is making similar efforts, though I am unaware of other institutions in the state:

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Hill [mailto:Adam.Hill at state.tn.us]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:20 PM
To: amymarieoo at aol.com; AllenS at apsu.edu; Amy.Coombs at cat.com;
asf_tn at hotmail.com; Andrew.Fowler at morgankeegan.com;
allen.fink at volvo.com; mac.rose at volvo.com; aoliver at westaninsurance.com;
chuck_ato at yahoo.com
Subject: Displaced College Students


See Message below.  If you know of any college student displaced by
Hurricane Katrina please make them aware of the following option:
Displaced college students can come to any Tennessee institution for the
semester.  States that are eligible include: LA, MS, AL, GA.

If they have paid their tuition already they do not have to pay again.
For students who have not paid tuition they are allowed to pay TN
in-state tuition to help defray the cost associated with doing this.

Tennessee is happy to help her neighbors and want to do our part to
make this trying time as easy as possible.  Please take advantage of
this opportunity and make any parents or college students displaced by
the storm aware of this option.

Thanks,

Adam Hill
Legislative Liaison
Tennessee

Governor Bredesen announced plans yesterday to open Tennessee's
public colleges and universities to students from Mississippi, Alabama,
Georgia and Louisiana schools that have been closed due to storm damage.
 The University of Tennessee and Board of Regents systems are making
arrangements to allow students from these effected institutions to
continue their studies in Tennessee.  Eligible and interested students
should call 800-669-2678



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/85 - Release Date: 8/30/2005
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/8774f39b/attachment.html 


From scottelliott  Fri Sep  2 13:42:42 2005
From: scottelliott (scottelliott at grandecom.net)
Date: Fri,  2 Sep 2005 13:42:42 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] 10,000 dead! WTF! No Excuse. Simply No Excuse for this!
Message-ID: <1125686562.43189d225b8a7@webmail.grandecom.net>

TEN THOUSAND DEAD! Ten Thousand in New Orleans area alone, and I would guess
9,950 are (1) African American (2) Elderly (3) below the poverty line (4) with
less than a high school education and (5) all of the above.

10,000. 10,000! Dead due to pure and unadulterated lack of attention and
planning! Told by the experts that this was the third most likely scenario for
mass disaster in the United States. Told by the NOAA scientists  at least three
weeks in advance that there was 100% probability of Category 5 huricanes
striking the GUlf Coast. Have you ever heard of a meterologist saying "100%
chance!?" Told by NOAA that it was "imperative" that federal and state
govenrments prepare in the wake of a 100% guaranteed prediction of
mega-hurricanes. Told by the USACE that the levees could barely withstand a
category three storm. Gutted, yes, gutted by at least 40% the Corps' levee
building capability just last year. Four days before some people get a fucking
bottle of water. WTF?! Its a truckload of water. Budweiser in Houston produces
a truckload of beer in less than five minutes. They could have had canned water
in New Orleans within five damn hours. Man, even I think there needs to be some
ass kicking of the people in charge on this. Unacceptable. Simply outrageous.

Scott


BATON ROUGE, United States (AFP) - US Senator David Vitter said that the death
toll from Hurricane Katrina could top 10,000 in Louisiana alone.


"My guess is that it will start at 10,000, but that is only a guess," Vitter
said, adding that he was not basing his remarks on any official death toll or
body count.

Vitter, a Louisiana Republican, also called for the immediate deployment of
regular US combat troops in New Orleans, saying the build-up of National Guard
troops was too slow to quickly restore order.

Such a step would require Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco to formally request
the dispatch of federal army soldiers, a highly unusual step.

Blanco said on Thursday that she had asked for 40,000 troops, the majority of
which are National Guard units from Louisiana and elsewhere.

Five-thousand National Guard troops are expected to be on the ground in
violence-wracked New Orleans by late Friday, military leaders said.

But Vitter said that timeline could be too slow, amid reports that bands of
armed men are roaming the streets in the city, which is 80 percent submerged in
floods brought in by a storm tide after the hurricane hit on Monday.

Vitter, speaking to reporters at the emergency response center in Baton Rouge,
also said he gave the federal government a grade 'F' for its response to the
disaster so far.








From alyse.kraus  Fri Sep  2 13:51:28 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:51:28 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b05090211514b9c852a@mail.gmail.com>

Look, I've never said we shouldn't look at who's responsible. And I'm 
certainly not saying the administration and their decisions shouldn't be 
questioned. I guess the difficulty I face is watching a really smart group 
of people focus on what is a tiny tiny part of the problem. Particularly 
when that group of people resorts to name calling ("douchebag" and "retard" 
are hardly the language of change) and silly jabs that really seem to miss 
the big picture. 
 The most effective posts about this have been the ones of schools offering 
to wave entry fees to tournaments or offer sleeping accomodations for those 
SELA teams at upcoming tournaments. The rest of the crap - the name calling, 
the fingerpointing, the turning EVERYTHING into a GOP vs the Dems, Left vs 
Right type of debacle is something I think we could do without right now. 
Why do I say that? Because here's the real big picture: I've lived along the 
gulf coast for almost my entire life. I still have a lot of family there. I 
follow hurricane season religiously. And you want to know the single biggest 
trend I've noticed? People are mighty full of opinions and recommendations 
and outrage in the immediate aftermath of the storm. Everyone gets so 
outraged that disasters happen and that they cost so much and hurt so many. 
But usually, come November/December, when hurricane season is done, those 
discussions tend to stop. And all of those ideas and that outrage goes away. 
Instead of acting, instead of getting involved and finding out what they can 
actually do to help. 
 For some perspective on this, click the link to the blog from N.O. that was 
posted to this list earlier today. Read the 6:35pm entry from August 29th 
(that'd be Monday, day the storm made landfall). Here's what he (someone who 
was and still is in New Orleans and is witnessing all of this firsthand) 
wrote:
 "I've been overwhelmed with IMs and emails and messages all day, lots of 
people thanking me, giving me credit for all kinds of wonderful stuff I 
probably don't deserve credit for, and sending me well wishes, prayers, and 
their love. It's great, and I'm glad not one person said 'It's all Bush's 
fault' or 'Kerry said Katrina was destroy New Orleans before he said it 
wasn't.' " 
  It's reading stuff like that and then reading the utter ridiculousness 
which ends up on this list that makes me so frustrated. 
 And to answer what Michelle wrote:
 "And for about the last time, if you're a big ole supporter of the party 
that 
invented the wedge issue, divide and conquer strategy for governing the 
nation, stop lecturing the rest of us on our diviseness. Its not division - 
its demanding accountability and asking tough questions. "
 Your insulting barbs and what seem like SWEEPING generalizations of anyone 
who identifies in any way with the Republican party aside, it is perfectly 
acceptable to demand accountability. It's one of the founding traditions of 
this country. We demand that our leaders be accountable for their actions. 
Asking tough questions goes hand in hand. My point was simply this: a) let's 
try and think about the ways in which we ask these questions (as I said, 
douchebag and retard do not = language of change) and b) let's also ask the 
tough questions of "what have I done or what can I do to make this situation 
better?" 
 The Red Cross is accepting donations online 
https://www2.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp as is the Salvation Army 
http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn.nsf and also the North American 
Missions Board 
https://www.kintera.org/site/c.9qKILUOzEpH/b.238542/k.9A2/Disaster_Relief_Fund/apps/ka/sd/donor.asp?c=9qKILUOzEpH&b=238542&en=guITJ0NIKcLNLZMIKfJUI3OHKeLUIfN2KmJVI9ORLkKRI9OXJsJbG.

 $100 feeds a family of four for 2 days. I know some of us are making that 
in the time we spend typing emails to edebate. 
 - Alyse
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/54044adf/attachment.htm 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 13:59:48 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:59:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] something being offered for college students in NO
In-Reply-To: <000a01c5afeb$7a2e7ed0$acc48caa@emorycard.emory.edu>
Message-ID: <20050902185949.21746.qmail@web50909.mail.yahoo.com>

I know Virginia is allowing any state resident who is going to school in NO, or one of hte other effected states, to register at Virignia schools. I'm trying to check with my wife to see if there is any other national policies being put in effect, or if there is a central location to find out where people might be at school in the interim - for those of you looking for people. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/fd591880/attachment.html 


From mcfaddet  Fri Sep  2 14:08:47 2005
From: mcfaddet (T. G. McFadden)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:08:47 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Floods
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20050902150543.03664770@idol.union.edu>

Folks:

Of course, this is not new, in a sense, in all of its implications.  The 
Missippi River flooding in 1927 was an enormous calamity, having many of 
the same overtones as the current situation.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/flood/

The controversy over levee-dynamiting continues to this day.


T. McFadden


T. McFadden, College Librarian
Schaffer Library
Union College
Schenectady, NY 12308
518-388-6277





From tlyden  Fri Sep  2 14:04:07 2005
From: tlyden (todd lyden)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:04:07 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] Topic, Katrina, Weird Idea
Message-ID: <BAY103-F4234786DABD3AEEE8E50C2C1A30@phx.gbl>

I was going over the topic with novi today and we got to talking about other 
formats... and I threw in the change of topic that occurred at Wake 4 years 
post-9/11.

Thought occurred to me... is there anyone out there running a tourney in the 
next semester willing to do something similar to what Wake did? Even one 
round would be an interesting display, but I wonder if a director has the 
rocks to make an entire tournament about nothing but the impact of Katrina.

If someone is, please let me know because I think my debaters would be 
interested... anyone else?





From blackdebateguy  Fri Sep  2 14:19:00 2005
From: blackdebateguy (doug dennis)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:19:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <20050902181902.18120.qmail@web50910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050902191900.12044.qmail@web50203.mail.yahoo.com>

everyone knew leves couldn't hold, everyone is complicit. 
 
wow. 
 
i'm sure most people in new orleans didn't look at the pricetag and say, "this is too expensive for the risk, so no we won't pay"...
 
d

Duane Hyland <privethedge at yahoo.com> wrote:
LOL..Yes, "even" I say that the government didn't do a good job at all on this one. F, that's for sure. However, if we are casting blame about levies - let's be fair - EVERYONE knew the levies couldn't do anything against a 4 or a 5, and would barely, just, hold against a 3. It was known for years and years and years. While Bush did nothing to help the situation, and even did a lot to hurt the situation, everyone is complicit because they all looked at the pricetag and then the risk and said no. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/c9bd0674/attachment.htm 


From parcherj  Fri Sep  2 14:24:22 2005
From: parcherj (Jeff Parcher)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:24:22 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] dumpsters
References: <BAY101-F2746A2715955D9935D98DAE4A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001301c5aff3$f0900050$c6aefea9@D3GVG561>

obviously conservatives would like a world in which no blame is ascribed. 
after all, look at the world they've created.

any moron that sees a disaster and does not look for it's cause is probably 
korcok pushing the agenda of his favorite fundamentalists christian 
retard-in-chief.

got it?

no?

i didn't think so....

jp
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Korcok" <mmk_savant at hotmail.com>
To: <edebate at ndtceda.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:42 PM
Subject: [eDebate] dumpsters


> no... it is simpler than that.
>
> only a complete scumbag encounters this disaster and uses it to push their 
> politics.
> and only an idiot doesn't get that.  got it?  no?
>
> Michael Korcok
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
> 





From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 14:42:14 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:42:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <20050902191900.12044.qmail@web50203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050902194214.37067.qmail@web50910.mail.yahoo.com>

yet, that's what the Corp of Engineers, the state government, and the local government did. When they saw the price tag and calculated the risk - which was billed at one possible storm of that magnitude very 500 years, if then, they said no. Hard to believe, but that's what they did. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/5ff6b80e/attachment.html 


From tlyden  Fri Sep  2 14:46:53 2005
From: tlyden (todd lyden)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:46:53 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] The Bush Answer to Katrina
Message-ID: <BAY103-F16F819C1AF900857A4237DC1A30@phx.gbl>

I  have  just  completed  a meeting with my national security team, and we 
have received the latest intelligence updates.
    The  deliberate  and  deadly  attack carried out against  our country 
was more than an act of Mother Nature.  This was an act of war. This  will  
require  our  country  to  unite in steadfast determination and resolve.  
Freedom and democracy are under attack.
    The  American  people need to know that we're facing a different enemy 
than  we  have  ever faced.  This enemy hides in shadows, and has no regard 
for  human  life.   This is an enemy who preys on innocent and unsuspecting 
people,  then  runs  for  cover.   But  it  won't  be able to run for cover 
forever.   This  is  an  enemy that tries to hide.  But it won't be able to 
hide forever.  This is an enemy that thinks its harbors are safe.  But they 
won't be safe forever.
    This enemy attacked not just our people, but all freedom-loving people 
everywhere  in  the  world.   The United States of America will use all our 
resources  to  conquer  this  enemy.   We will rally the world.  We will be 
patient, we will be focused, and we will be steadfast in our determination.
    This battle will take time and resolve.  But make no mistake about it: 
we will win.
    The  federal  government and all our agencies are conducting business. 
But it is not business as usual.  We are operating on a heightened security 
alert.   America  is  going forward, and as we do so, we must remain keenly 
aware  of  the  threats  to  our  country.   Those in authority should take 
appropriate precautions to protect our citizens.
    But we will not allow this enemy to win the war by changing our way of 
life or restricting our freedoms.  This morning, I am sending to Congress a 
request  for  emergency funding authority, so that we are prepared to spend 
whatever  it takes to rescue victims, to help the citizens of Mississippi 
and  Louisiana respond to this tragedy, and to protect our national 
security.
    I  want  to thank the members of Congress for their unity and support. 
America  is  united.   The freedom-loving nations of the world stand by our 
side.   This  will  be a monumental struggle of good versus evil.  But good 
will prevail.
    Thank you very much.

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: "todd lyden" <tlyden at hotmail.com>
Subject: The Bush Answer to Katrina?
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:32:39 +0000
Size: 3653
Url: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/fbe8c091/attachment.mht 


From erm868f  Fri Sep  2 14:42:49 2005
From: erm868f (Morris, Eric R)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:42:49 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] UNI Swing partner needed
Message-ID: <75489B77C88F414E946BDCBD0A14369D01061D5C@magnus.SMSU.EDU>

We're looking for a swing partner at the UNI tournament. We'd rather
send him in open, but a JV pairing would also be possible.

 

Thanks!

 

Ermo

Missouri State

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/67c1c988/attachment.html 


From parcherj  Fri Sep  2 15:13:15 2005
From: parcherj (Jeff Parcher)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:13:15 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] blither
References: <BAY101-F25138928A4E80AD94ECBADE4A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <007101c5affa$c667e6b0$c6aefea9@D3GVG561>

My answer to the blithering from several corners about how terrible it is 
that we are arguing and politicizing an issue while people are dying is:



The disaster is the product of political, economic and social structures. 
Many people are to blame for those structures.  George bush has spent the 
last four years scaring americans and promising to build a catastrophe 
response system.  We've now seen the net the result of homeland security 
under bush.



My answer to "in a war you choose sides.  <--- that is a period.""



Nothing could illustrate the obvious problem with George Bush, Michael 
Korcok and current American politix more than this line.  Simplifying 
complex problems into moronic one sentence attacks.  The "choose sides" 
notion of war has served us so well in the past (Korea, Vietnam, Panama, 
Kosovo, Iraq) after all.  Next, Korcok will be quoting the idiot bimbo Anne 
Coulter on how all democrats are traitors.  "America, love it or leave it!" 
What are the sides Michael?  Good white Christian America vs. the sand 
niggers?  Terrorists with an air force vs. suicide bombers?   US Marines vs. 
Iraqi civilians?  Afghan villagers vs. American cluster bombs?  Innocent 
Muslims vs. American torturers?



Pardon the "educated elite" (that your party/president holds in such 
disdain) for wanting a little bit more nuance in our war crime preparations 
than "choose sides."



My answer to the rest of the drivel about philosophy:



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral 
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for 
selfishness.


John Kenneth Galbraith



My favorite line in korcoks post: "i believe that the United States is the 
"shining city on the hill", the last best hope of humankind, a beacon of 
liberty..."  very poetic.  it nearly makes me want to jump and spout the 
pledge of allegiance. imagine me wiping the tears from eyes.  Turn on CNN 
and watch your "shining city on the hill."



jp





From sethtellsworth  Fri Sep  2 15:20:45 2005
From: sethtellsworth (Seth Ellsworth)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 20:20:45 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] something being offered for college students in NO
Message-ID: <BAY105-F20FC18AD2DF513ED2EF9B1D1A30@phx.gbl>

While being very far away from New Orleans, the University of Wyoming is 
also trying to help

The President of the University of Wyoming, Tom Buchanan posted this on the 
UW website:

As an educational institution, we have a special responsibility to help our 
fellow colleges and universities and their students in this difficult time. 
UW welcomes inquiries from students enrolled at colleges and universities 
whose operations have been interrupted by Hurricane Katrina. Although our 
fall semester is already under way, in a limited number of cases we may be 
able to accommodate students who wish to pursue studies at UW this semester. 
Recognizing that recovery from the damage may take many months, we also 
welcome inquiries for spring semester 2006 and beyond, and we will work to 
ensure the most efficient possible resolution of issues involving on-campus 
housing, transfer of credit, the availability of financial aid and 
reconciliation of course prerequisites.

Students who intended to attend or enroll at universities affected by 
Hurricane Katrina should contact the UW Office of Admissions via the Web at 
http://www.uwyo.edu/admissions.





From CCooper  Fri Sep  2 15:39:29 2005
From: CCooper (Chris Cooper)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:39:29 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Precient National Geographic Article
Message-ID: <200509022034.j82KYfjm004812@smtp2.dti.net>

For those who haven?t seen it already
.scary how accurately this calamity
was predicted:

 

National Geographic Magazine

     October 2004

     http://205.188.130.53/ngm/0410/feature5/

 

GONE  WITH  THE  WATER

 

By Joel K. Bourne, Jr.

 

     The Louisiana bayou, hardest working marsh in America, is in big
trouble?with dire consequences for residents, the nearby city of New
Orleans, and seafood lovers everywhere.

 

 

 It was a broiling August afternoon in New Orleans, Louisiana, the Big Easy,
the City That Care Forgot. Those who ventured outside moved as if they were
swimming in tupelo honey. Those inside paid silent homage to the man who
invented air-conditioning as they watched TV "storm teams" warn of a
hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico. Nothing surprising there: Hurricanes in
August are as much a part of life in this town as hangovers on Ash
Wednesday. 

 

But the next day the storm gathered steam and drew a bead on the city. As
the whirling maelstrom approached the coast, more than a million people
evacuated to higher ground. Some 200,000 remained, however?the car-less, the
homeless, the aged and infirm, and those die-hard New Orleanians who look
for any excuse to throw a party.

 

The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a
deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of
the massive berm that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80
percent of New Orleans lies below sea level?more than eight feet below in
places?so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick
ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over
the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through
the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the
Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city,
people climbed onto roofs to escape it.

 

Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and
industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from
dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to
pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of
putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It
was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.

 

When did this calamity happen? It hasn't?yet. But the doomsday scenario is
not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane
strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up
there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New
York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the
city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great.

 

"The killer for Louisiana is a Category Three storm at 72 hours before
landfall that becomes a Category Four at 48 hours and a Category Five at 24
hours?coming from the worst direction," says Joe Suhayda, a retired coastal
engineer at Louisiana State University who has spent 30 years studying the
coast. Suhayda is sitting in a lakefront restaurant on an actual August
afternoon sipping lemonade and talking about the chinks in the city's
hurricane armor. "I don't think people realize how precarious we are,"

Suhayda says, watching sailboats glide by. "Our technology is great when it
works. But when it fails, it's going to make things much worse."

 

The chances of such a storm hitting New Orleans in any given year are
slight, but the danger is growing. Climatologists predict that powerful
storms may occur more frequently this century, while rising sea level from
global warming is putting low-lying coasts at greater risk. "It's not if it
will happen," says University of New Orleans geologist Shea Penland. "It's
when." 

 

Yet just as the risks of a killer storm are rising, the city's natural
defenses are quietly melting away. From the Mississippi border to the Texas
state line, Louisiana is losing its protective fringe of marshes and barrier
islands faster than any place in the U.S. Since the 1930s some 1,900 square
miles (4,900 square kilometers) of coastal wetlands?a swath nearly the size
of Delaware or almost twice that of Luxembourg?have vanished beneath the
Gulf of Mexico. Despite nearly half a billion dollars spent over the past
decade to stem the tide, the state continues to lose about 25 square miles

(65 square kilometers) of land each year, roughly one acre every 33 minutes.

 

A cocktail of natural and human factors is putting the coast under. Delta
soils naturally compact and sink over time, eventually giving way to open
water unless fresh layers of sediment offset the subsidence. The
Mississippi's spring floods once maintained that balance, but the annual
deluges were often disastrous. After a devastating flood in 1927, levees
were raised along the river and lined with concrete, effectively funneling
the marsh-building sediments to the deep waters of the Gulf. Since the 1950s
engineers have also cut more than 8,000 miles (13,000 kilometers) of canals
through the marsh for petroleum exploration and ship traffic. These new
ditches sliced the wetlands into a giant jigsaw puzzle, increasing erosion
and allowing lethal doses of salt water to infiltrate brackish and
freshwater marshes.

 

While such loss hits every bayou-loving Louisianan right in the heart, it
also hits nearly every U.S. citizen right in the wallet. Louisiana has the
hardest working wetlands in America, a watery world of bayous, marshes, and
barrier islands that either produces or transports more than a third of the
nation's oil and a quarter of its natural gas, and ranks second only to
Alaska in commercial fish landings. As wildlife habitat, it makes Florida's
Everglades look like a petting zoo by comparison.

 

Such high stakes compelled a host of unlikely bedfellows?scientists,
environmental groups, business leaders, and the U.S. Army Corps of
Engineers?to forge a radical plan to protect what's left. Drafted by the
Corps a year ago, the Louisiana Coastal Area (LCA) project was initially
estimated to cost up to 14 billion dollars over 30 years, almost twice as
much as current efforts to save the Everglades. But the Bush Administration
balked at the price tag, supporting instead a plan to spend up to two
billion dollars over the next ten years to fund the most promising projects.

Either way, Congress must authorize the money before work can begin.

 

To glimpse the urgency of the problem afflicting Louisiana, one need only
drive 40 minutes southeast of New Orleans to the tiny bayou village of Shell
Beach. Here, for the past 70 years or so, a big, deeply tanned man with
hands the size of baseball gloves has been catching fish, shooting ducks,
and selling gas and bait to anyone who can find his end-of-the-road marina.

Today Frank "Blackie" Campo's ramshackle place hangs off the end of new
Shell Beach. The old Shell Beach, where Campo was born in 1918, sits a
quarter mile away, five feet beneath the rippling waves. Once home to some
50 families and a naval air station during World War II, the little village
is now "ga'an pecan," as Campo says in the local patois. Gone forever.

 

Life in old Shell Beach had always been a tenuous existence. Hurricanes
twice razed the community, sending houses floating through the marsh. But it
wasn't until the Corps of Engineers dredged a 500-foot-wide (150-meter-wide)
ship channel nearby in 1968 that its fate was sealed. The Mississippi
River-Gulf Outlet, known as "Mr. Go," was supposed to provide a shortcut for
freighters bound for New Orleans, but it never caught on. Maybe two ships
use the channel on a given day, but wakes from even those few vessels have
carved the shoreline a half mile wide in places, consuming old Shell Beach.

 

Campo settles into a worn recliner, his pale blue eyes the color of a late
autumn sky. Our conversation turns from Mr. Go to the bigger issue affecting
the entire coast. "What really screwed up the marsh is when they put the
levees on the river," Campo says, over the noise of a groaning
air-conditioner. "They should take the levees out and let the water run;
that's what built the land. But we know they not going to let the river run
again, so there's no solution."

 

Denise Reed, however, proposes doing just that?letting the river run. A
coastal geomorphologist at the University of New Orleans, Reed is convinced
that breaching the levees with a series of gated spillways would pump new
life into the dying marshes. Only three such diversions currently operate in
the state. I catch up with Reed at the most controversial of the lot?a
26-million-dollar culvert just south of New Orleans named Caernarvon.

 

"Caernarvon is a prototype, a demonstration of a technique," says Reed as we
motor down a muddy canal in a state boat. The diversion isn't filling the
marsh with sediments on a grand scale, she says. But the effect of the added
river water?loaded as it is with fertilizer from farm runoff?is plain to
see. "It turns wetlands hanging on by the fingernails into something quite
lush," says Reed. 

 

To prove her point, she points to banks crowded with slender willows, rafts
of lily pads, and a wide shallow pond that is no longer land, no longer
liquid. More like chocolate pudding. But impressive as the recovering marsh
is, its scale seems dwarfed by the size of the problem. "Restoration is not
trying to make the coast look like a map of 1956," explains Reed. "That's
not even possible. The goal is to restore healthy natural processes, then
live with what you get."

 

Even that will be hard to do. Caernarvon, for instance, became a political
land mine when releases of fresh water timed to mimic spring floods wiped
out the beds of nearby oyster farmers. The oystermen sued, and last year a
sympathetic judge awarded them a staggering 1.3 billion dollars. The case
threw a major speed bump into restoration efforts.

 

Other restoration methods?such as rebuilding marshes with dredge spoil and
salt-tolerant plants or trying to stabilize a shoreline that's eroding 30
feet (10 meters) a year?have had limited success. Despite the challenges,
the thought of doing nothing is hard for most southern Louisianans to
swallow. Computer models that project land loss for the next 50 years show
the coast and interior marsh dissolving as if splattered with acid, leaving
only skeletal remnants. Outlying towns such as Shell Beach, Venice, Grand
Isle, and Cocodrie vanish under a sea of blue pixels.

 

Those who believe diversions are the key to saving Louisiana's coast often
point to the granddaddy of them all: the Atchafalaya River. The major
distributary of the Mississippi River, the Atchafalaya, if left alone, would
soon be the Mississippi River, capturing most of its flow. But to prevent
salt water from creeping farther up the Mississippi and spoiling the water
supply of nearby towns and industries, the Corps of Engineers allows only a
third of the Mississippi's water to flow down the Atchafalaya. Still, that
water and sediment have produced the healthiest wetlands in Louisiana. The
Atchafalaya Delta is one of the few places in the state that's actually
gaining ground instead of losing it. And if you want to see the delta, you
need to go crabbing with Peanut Michel.

 

"Peanut," it turns out, is a bit of a misnomer. At six foot six and 340
pounds, the 35-year-old commercial fisherman from Morgan City wouldn't look
out of place on the offensive line of the New Orleans Saints. We launch his
aluminum skiff in the predawn light, and soon we're skimming down the broad,
caf? au lait river toward the newest land in Louisiana. Dense thickets of
needlegrass, flag grass, cut grass, and a big-leafed plant Michel calls
elephant ear crowd the banks, followed closely by bushy wax myrtles and
shaggy willows. 

 

Michel finds his string of crab pots a few miles out in the broad expanse of
Atchafalaya Bay. Even this far from shore the water is barely five feet
deep. As the sun ignites into a blowtorch on the horizon, Michel begins a
well-oiled ritual: grab the bullet-shaped float, shake the wire cube of its
clicking, mottled green inhabitants, bait it with a fish carcass, and toss.

It's done in fluid motions as the boat circles lazily in the water.

 

But it's a bad day for crabbing. The wind and water are hot, and only a few
crabs dribble in. And yet Michel is happy. Deliriously happy. Because this
is what he wants to do. "They call 'em watermen up in Maryland," he says
with a slight Cajun accent. "They call us lunatics here. You got to be crazy
to be in this business."

 

Despite Michel's poor haul, Louisiana's wetlands are still a prolific
seafood factory, sustaining a commercial fishery that most years lands more
than 300 million dollars' worth of finfish, shrimp, oysters, crabs, and
other delicacies. How long the stressed marshes can maintain that production
is anybody's guess. In the meantime, Michel keeps at it. "My grandfather
always told me, Don't live to be rich, live to be happy," he says. And so he
does. 

 

After a few hours Michel calls it a day, and we head through the braided
delta, where navigation markers that once stood at the edge of the boat
channel now peek out of the brush 20 feet (six meters) from shore. At every
turn we flush mottled ducks, ibis, and great blue herons. Michel, who works
as a hunting guide during duck season, cracks an enormous grin at the sight.

"When the ducks come down in the winter," he says, "they'll cover the sun."

 

To folks like Peanut Michel, the birds, the fish, and the rich coastal
culture are reason enough to save Louisiana's shore, whatever the cost. But
there is another reason, one readily grasped by every American whose way of
life is tethered not to a dock, but to a gas pump: These wetlands protect
one of the most extensive petroleum infrastructures in the nation.

 

The state's first oil well was punched in south Louisiana in 1901, and the
world's first offshore rig went into operation in the Gulf of Mexico in
1947. During the boom years in the early 1970s, fully half of the state's
budget was derived from petroleum revenues. Though much of the production
has moved into deeper waters, oil and gas wells remain a fixture of the
coast, as ubiquitous as shrimp boats and brown pelicans.

 

The deep offshore wells now account for nearly a third of all domestic oil
production, while Louisiana's Offshore Oil Port, a series of platforms
anchored 18 miles (29 kilometers) offshore, unloads a nonstop line of
supertankers that deliver up to 15 percent of the nation's foreign oil. Most
of that black gold comes ashore via a maze of pipelines buried in the
Louisiana muck. Numerous refineries, the nation's largest natural gas
pipeline hub, even the Strategic Petroleum Reserve are all protected from
hurricanes and storm surge by Louisiana's vanishing marsh.

 

You can smell the petrodollars burning at Port Fourchon, the offshore oil
industry's sprawling home port on the central Louisiana coast. Brawny
helicopters shuttle 6,000 workers to the rigs from here each week, while
hundreds of supply boats deliver everything from toilet paper to drinking
water to drilling lube. A thousand trucks a day keep the port humming around
the clock, yet Louisiana 1, the two-lane highway that connects it to the
world, seems to flood every other high tide. During storms the port becomes
an island, which is why port officials like Davie Breaux are clamoring for
the state to build a 17-mile-long (27-kilometer-long) elevated highway to
the port. It's also why Breaux thinks spending 14 billion dollars to save
the coast would be a bargain.

 

"We'll go to war and spend billions of dollars to protect oil and gas
interests overseas,"

Breaux says as he drives his truck past platform anchors the size of
two-story houses. "But here at home?" He shrugs. "Where else you gonna
drill? Not California. Not Florida. Not in ANWR. In Louisiana. I'm third
generation in the oil field. We're not afraid of the industry. We just want
the infrastructure to handle it."

 

The oil industry has been good to Louisiana, providing low taxes and
high-paying jobs. But such largesse hasn't come without a cost, largely
exacted from coastal wetlands. The most startling impact has only recently
come to light?the effect of oil and gas withdrawal on subsidence rates. For
decades geologists believed that the petroleum deposits were too deep and
the geology of the coast too complex for drilling to have any impact on the
surface. But two years ago former petroleum geologist Bob Morton, now with
the U.S. Geological Survey, noticed that the highest rates of wetland loss
occurred during or just after the period of peak oil and gas production in
the 1970s and early 1980s. After much study, Morton concluded that the
removal of millions of barrels of oil, trillions of cubic feet of natural
gas, and tens of millions of barrels of saline formation water lying with
the petroleum deposits caused a drop in subsurface pressure?a theory known
as regional depressurization. That led nearby underground faults to slip and
the land above them to slump.

 

"When you stick a straw in a soda and suck on it, everything goes down,"

Morton explains. "That's very simplified, but you get the idea." The
phenomenon isn't new: It was first documented in Texas in 1926 and has been
reported in other oil-producing areas such as the North Sea and Lake
Maracaibo in Venezuela. Morton won't speculate on what percentage of wetland
loss can be pinned on the oil industry. "What I can tell you is that much of
the loss between Bayou Lafourche and Bayou Terrebonne was caused by induced
subsidence from oil and gas withdrawal. The wetlands are still there,
they're just underwater." The area Morton refers to, part of the
Barataria-Terrebonne estuary, has one of the highest rates of wetland loss
in the state. 

 

The oil industry and its consultants dispute Morton's theory, but they've
been unable to disprove it. The implication for restoration is profound. If
production continues to taper off in coastal wetlands, Morton expects
subsidence to return to its natural geologic rate, making restoration
feasible in places. Currently, however, the high price of natural gas has
oil companies swarming over the marshes looking for deep gas reservoirs. If
such fields are tapped, Morton expects regional depressurization to
continue. The upshot for the coast, he explains, is that the state will have
to focus whatever restoration dollars it can muster on areas that can be
saved, not waste them on places that are going to sink no matter what.

 

A few days after talking with Morton, I'm sitting on the levee in the French
Quarter, enjoying the deep-fried powdery sweetness of a beignet from the
Caf? du Monde. Joggers lumber by in the torpid heat, while tugs wrestle
their barges up and down the big brown river. For all its enticing
quirkiness, for all its licentious pleasures, for all its geologic
challenges, New Orleans has been luckier than the wetlands that lined its
pockets and stocked its renowned tables. The question is how long Lady Luck
will shine. It brings back something Joe Suhayda, the LSU engineer, had said
during our lunch by Lake Pontchartrain.

 

"When you look at the broadest perspective, short-term advantages can be
gained by exploiting the environment. But in the long term you're going to
pay for it. Just like you can spend three days drinking in New Orleans and
it'll be fun. But sooner or later you're going to pay."

 

I finish my beignet and stroll down the levee, succumbing to the hazy, lazy
feel of the city that care forgot, but that nature will not.

 

- - -

 

Bibliography

 

Barry, John. Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and How It
Changed America. Simon and Schuster, 1998.

 

Hallowell, Christopher. Holding Back the Sea: The Struggle for America's
Natural Legacy on the Gulf Coast. HarperCollins Publishers, 2001.

 

Streever, Bill. Saving Louisiana? The Battle for Coastal Wetlands.

University Press of Mississippi, 2001.

 

Tidwell, Mike. Bayou Farewell: The Rich Life and Tragic Death of Louisiana's
Cajun Coast. Vintage Books, 2004.

 

# # #

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/9f3bcf26/attachment.htm 


From trond  Fri Sep  2 16:16:51 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:16:51 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] blaming the President for natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <ffc8ea7b05090211514b9c852a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ffc8ea7b05090211514b9c852a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050902171651.b9dp1zcie8gs8cg8@web.mail.umich.edu>

> Look, I've never said we shouldn't look at who's responsible. And I'm
> certainly not saying the administration and their decisions shouldn't be
> questioned. I guess the difficulty I face is watching a really smart group
> of people focus on what is a tiny tiny part of the problem. Particularly
> when that group of people resorts to name calling ("douchebag" and "retard"
> are hardly the language of change) and silly jabs that really seem to miss
> the big picture.

We agree that we should examine closely who is responsible.  We agree the Bush
Administration is not alone worthy of blame.  I say show Blanco and Landrieu
the door and sentence Breaux to cleanup Canal Street.

More seriously you are absolutely correct that there is large set of causation
issues that transcend party and that are not restricted to events of the last
several years.  Issues that go back centuries and that involve complex social
phenomena, including race and class issues.  But there are some 
specific things
for which this administration is substantially responsible and for which they
should be held accountable.

The most obvious among them is that this thing happened on his watch, that he
was strumming guitars in California as old people went into shock from lack of
insulin and babies cried for food, that recent warnings should have produced
superior responses, that his administration cut relevant funding, that his DHS
told people to go places and then failed to deliver the goods.  I dare 
say that
Bush, as the Commander in Chief, as the ultimate head of the executive branch,
must be held accountable.

Is it unreasonable for me to think that regardless of what else I might feel
about Bush?s other policies, if his administration can?t handle this crisis
better than they have, then the President should resign?

Completely agree the vulgar rhetoric is infantile.

The rest of the crap - the name calling,
> the fingerpointing, the turning EVERYTHING into a GOP vs the Dems, Left vs
> Right type of debacle is something I think we could do without right now.

I think you are trying to be too sly here: ?sure we should demand
accountability...but we don?t want any finger-pointing or partisanship?.

How else will accountability be imposed?
Democrats did contribute to this situation and they must be dealt with 
as well. Start with the useless Blanco and the glib Landrieu.  But they 
don?t  control
the military, FEMA, and the Corps.  And they don?t set Iraq war troop 
levels or
direct the DHS.

> Why do I say that? Because here's the real big picture: I've lived along the
> gulf coast for almost my entire life. I still have a lot of family there. I
> follow hurricane season religiously. And you want to know the single biggest
> trend I've noticed? People are mighty full of opinions and recommendations
> and outrage in the immediate aftermath of the storm. Everyone gets so
> outraged that disasters happen and that they cost so much and hurt so many.
> But usually, come November/December, when hurricane season is done, those
> discussions tend to stop.

I?ll be on this issue and using the Bush record of ineptitude in my political
work and discussions in November and December.  I will be working to help put
people in power who will deal with these situations more appropriately.

And I deeply resent your insinuation that because I or others choose to post
opinions about the deficiencies of the Bush Administration this must trade-off
with pro-active steps to help those now in need.  You have no idea what
efforts, if any, I or any other posters have undertaken to help those in need.

Even if I had done nothing, however, I have every right to try and ensure this
administration is held accountable.

While your assertion that it is part of the American political tradition that
governing elites are held accountable is false, I do agree with you that it is
?perfectly acceptable to demand accountability.?

I demand accountability.

Trond E. Jacobsen




From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 16:40:35 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:40:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] something being offered for college students in NO An Important Link
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F20FC18AD2DF513ED2EF9B1D1A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050902214035.38328.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, My wife is currently very involved in the process of redirecting kids from schools that were hit by the hurricane to schools that weren't. She urges anyone interested in the effort, curious about what schools are doing what, or simply want to see this amazing process in action, should go to this link http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/jbrentzel?forum=29347  it is the nanational association of college admission counseling and it provides the central message board for information on this effort, and what schools are trying to do. 
 
Aditional advice is if you are a student from outside of the hurricane zone that was intending to attend a school in the hurricane zone and you are looking for an insitution to attend look to your state education agency for possible information.
 
Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/36d46945/attachment.html 


From delliott  Fri Sep  2 17:12:25 2005
From: delliott (Darren Elliott)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:12:25 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] UNI Judging available
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.1.20050902171032.01d66a70@kckcc.toto.net>

Anyone who needs judging for UNI and can pay cash, we have a judge for 
you.  Skippy Flinn is willing to hire out for up to 4 rounds of judging 
Sat-Sun.  He wont be there Monday so you cant pay him to take your elim 
commitment if you stay in the bar too late on Sunday 
night!  Sorry.  Otherwise let me know if you need him.

Peace,
Chief

Darren Elliott
Director of Debate
KCKCC





From scottelliott  Fri Sep  2 17:44:02 2005
From: scottelliott (scottelliott at grandecom.net)
Date: Fri,  2 Sep 2005 17:44:02 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Cite for the third most likely catastrophe prediction
Message-ID: <1125701042.4318d5b2a2f3f@webmail.grandecom.net>

No One Can Say they Didn't See it Coming"

By Sidney Blumenthal

In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three
most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New Orleans
flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.



REUTERS
An aerial view of the New Orleans airport underwater.
Biblical in its uncontrolled rage and scope, Hurricane Katrina has left millions
of Americans to scavenge for food and shelter and hundreds to thousands
reportedly dead. With its main levee broken, the evacuated city of New Orleans
has become part of the Gulf of Mexico. But the damage wrought by the hurricane
may not entirely be the result of an act of nature.

A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans
could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration
ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in
1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in
which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping
stations. In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a
report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most
likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City.
But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried
up as it was drained into the Iraq war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut
funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of
Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80
percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction
in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the
Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing
New Orleans' levees, but it was too late.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune, which before the hurricane published a series on
the federal funding problem, and whose presses are now underwater, reported
online: "No one can say they didn't see it coming ... Now in the wake of one of
the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of
preparation."

The Bush administration's policy of turning over wetlands to developers almost
certainly also contributed to the heightened level of the storm surge. In 1990,
a federal task force began restoring lost wetlands surrounding New Orleans.
Every two miles of wetland between the Crescent City and the Gulf reduces a
surge by half a foot. Bush had promised "no net loss" of wetlands, a policy
launched by his father's administration and bolstered by President Clinton. But
he reversed his approach in 2003, unleashing the developers. The Army Corps of
Engineers and the Environmental Protection Agency then announced they could no
longer protect wetlands unless they were somehow related to interstate
commerce.

In response to this potential crisis, four leading environmental groups
conducted a joint expert study, concluding in 2004 that without wetlands
protection New Orleans could be devastated by an ordinary, much less a Category
4 or 5, hurricane. "There's no way to describe how mindless a policy that is
when it comes to wetlands protection," said one of the report's authors. The
chairman of the White House's Council on Environmental Quality dismissed the
study as "highly questionable," and boasted, "Everybody loves what we're
doing."


NEWSLETTER
Sign up for Spiegel Online's daily newsletter and get the best of Der Spiegel's
and Spiegel Online's international coverage in your In-Box everyday.





"My administration's climate change policy will be science based," President
Bush declared in June 2001. But in 2002, when the Environmental Protection
Agency submitted a study on global warming to the United Nations reflecting its
expert research, Bush derided it as "a report put out by a bureaucracy," and
excised the climate change assessment from the agency's annual report. The next
year, when the EPA issued its first comprehensive "Report on the Environment,"
stating, "Climate change has global consequences for human health and the
environment," the White House simply demanded removal of the line and all
similar conclusions. At the G-8 meeting in Scotland this year, Bush
successfully stymied any common action on global warming. Scientists,
meanwhile, have continued to accumulate impressive data on the rising
temperature of the oceans, which has produced more severe hurricanes.

In February 2004, 60 of the nation's leading scientists, including 20 Nobel
laureates, warned in a statement, "Restoring Scientific Integrity in
Policymaking": "Successful application of science has played a large part in
the policies that have made the United States of America the world's most
powerful nation and its citizens increasingly prosperous and healthy ...
Indeed, this principle has long been adhered to by presidents and
administrations of both parties in forming and implementing policies. The
administration of George W. Bush has, however, disregarded this principle ...
The distortion of scientific knowledge for partisan political ends must cease."
Bush completely ignored this statement.

In the two weeks preceding the storm in the Gulf, the trumping of science by
ideology and expertise by special interests accelerated. The Federal Drug
Administration announced that it was postponing sale of the morning-after
contraceptive pill, despite overwhelming scientific evidence of its safety and
its approval by the FDA's scientific advisory board. The United Nations special
envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa accused the Bush administration of responsibility
for a condom shortage in Uganda -- the result of the administration's
evangelical Christian agenda of "abstinence." When the chief of the Bureau of
Justice Statistics in the Justice Department was ordered by the White House to
delete its study that African-Americans and other minorities are subject to
racial profiling in police traffic stops and he refused to buckle under, he was
forced out of his job. When the Army Corps of Engineers' chief contracting
oversight analyst objected to a $7 billion no-bid contract awarded for work in
Iraq to Halliburton (the firm at which Vice President Cheney was formerly CEO),
she was demoted despite her superior professional ratings. At the National Park
Service, a former Cheney aide, a political appointee lacking professional
background, drew up a plan to overturn past environmental practices and
prohibit any mention of evolution while allowing sale of religious materials
through the Park Service.

On the day the levees burst in New Orleans, Bush delivered a speech in Colorado
comparing the Iraq war to World War II and himself to Franklin D. Roosevelt:
"And he knew that the best way to bring peace and stability to the region was
by bringing freedom to Japan." Bush had boarded his very own "Streetcar Named
Desire."

Sidney Blumenthal, a former assistant and senior advisor to President Clinton
and the author of "The Clinton Wars," is writing a column for Salon and the
Guardian of London.





From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 18:32:18 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:32:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] More Information for Colleges and Students Effected by the Hurricane
Message-ID: <20050902233218.61393.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, My wife thought y'all would like to see this e-mail, as it gives vital information for those in the zone, and other interested parties.  Department of Education Electronic AnnouncementFederal Student Aid Programs ? Hurricane Katrina ? Transfers, Deadline Extensions, and Other Guidance


Publication Date: September 2, 2005 
Author: Sally L. Stroup, Assistant Secretary for Postsecondary Education 
Subject: Federal Student Aid Programs ? Hurricane Katrina ? Transfers, Deadline Extensions, and Other Guidance 
Over the next several days we will issue a series of communications providing guidance to assist students and postsecondary educational institutions, in recognition of the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina. We are aware that many applicants, students, and borrowers have been impacted by the hurricane, as well as institutions and other program participants. Last year, we published guidance in a Dear Colleague Letter which, until otherwise modified, can be relied upon for this current natural disaster. The letter (GEN-04-04) is available on IFAP at http://www.ifap.ed.gov/dpcletters/GEN0404.html. 
Transfer Students: 
Regular student enrollment ? We encourage institutions (receiving institutions) to enroll students who have been impacted by the hurricane as regular students (i.e., enrolled for the purpose of obtaining a degree, certificate or other recognized educational credential offered by that institution), even if information that would normally be needed for an admissions decision is not immediately available. If the receiving institution waives admissions requirements that it would normally impose, it should include an explanation of that action in the student?s file. 
Non-regular student enrollment ? Some receiving institutions have expressed concern that, for various operational and timing reasons, they may not be able to admit as regular students, students who had planned on enrolling at an impacted institution. An impacted institution is an institution whose operations have been significantly impaired by the hurricane. Instead, they may be permitting these students to enroll in a non-matriculated status (transient, visitor, etc.). Since only regular students are eligible to receive funds under the Title IV, Federal student aid programs, we have been asked if any accommodation can be made for students in this situation. 
In those limited instances where a receiving institution is unable to enroll a student from an impacted institution as a regular student, it may provide the student with Title IV, Federal student aid program funds after the student has signed a certification that he or she was enrolled in a degree, certificate, or other credential program at a specifically identified eligible institution that has been impacted by Hurricane Katrina. This authority is limited to any academic terms or payment periods that begin prior to January 1, 2006. The certification should include a clear statement that the claim by the student is true and accurate and that the statement may be reviewed. 
Suggested wording for this statement is ? I certify that I was admitted to or enrolled in an academic program leading to a degree, certificate or other recognized educational credential for the 2005-2006 academic year at (Name of Institution) _________________________________________________ and am unable to attend that institution due to the effects of Hurricane Katrina. I also certify that this information is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge and that I understand that it is subject to review by the United States Department of Education. 
Printed or Typed Name ____________________________________________ 
Signature _________________________________ Date ______________ 
The receiving institution must maintain a copy of the certification and must make a good faith determination that the coursework to be taken by the student would likely be accepted at the home institution. 
ISIRs, Awarding, and Payments: 
When awarding aid to students who had planned on attending an impacted institution, the receiving institution must use its own ISIR or SAR records and its own budgets, definitions, and packaging policies. All loan certifications and originations, and disbursements must be made under the name and number of the receiving institution. 
In some cases the new institution may not have received an ISIR from the CPS, since the student did not include that institution when the FAFSA was submitted. The new institution can be added to the CPS record in a number of ways ? 
   The student can go on-line to www.fafsa.ed.gov and, using an FSA PIN, add the new institution to the record. 
   The student can call 1-800-4FEDAID (1-800-433-3243) and provide his or her name, social security number, date of birth, and either the DRN or the name of at least one institution currently listed on the CPS record, so that the customer service representative can add the institution to the student?s record. 
   The student can add the new institution using Part 2 of a paper SAR and mailing it to the address provided. 
   If the student presents his or her DRN (printed on the SAR) to the receiving institution, it can use FAA Access to add itself (or another institution) to the record. 
   If the student presents his or her DRN (printed on the SAR) to the receiving institution, it can call 1-800-4FEDAID (1-800-433-3243) and provide the student?s name, social security number, date of birth, and DRN so that the customer service representative can add the institution to the student?s record.
In all instances, the receiving institution will be added to the CPS record and an ISIR will be generated and sent to the receiving institution within 24 to 72 hours. 
While it is likely that some of the students may have had Title IV, Federal student aid program funds disbursed to them from the impacted institution, determining if and how much aid may have been disbursed is probably not possible at this time. While there may be a few exceptions, in most cases any funds that had been disbursed would not represent more than one-half of the student?s eligibility at the former institution. Therefore, institutions are encouraged to calculate their awards and to disburse the first portion of those awards as soon as possible. Within a few weeks, and before most second disbursements are scheduled to be made, we will assess the situation and advise program participants of a simplified process to determine if and how much of the earlier disbursements needs to be considered before the receiving institution makes its second disbursements. 
Deadlines: 
We intend to publish in the Federal Register a notice extending to December 1, 2005, certain published deadline dates for submission of information and reports by impacted institutions. We also intend to extend previously published deadlines for application (FAFSA) corrections by students and institutions, receipt of SARs and ISIRs by institutions, and submission of verification documents to institutions by students. 
We thank all of our Title IV program participants for their patience, cooperation, and understanding as, together, we do our part to assist those impacted by the terrible results of Hurricane Katrina. 

Posted September 2, 2005 on www.NASFAA.org, the Web Site of the 
National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators (NASFAA). 





"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








		
---------------------------------
 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/9d3403aa/attachment.htm 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  2 18:35:30 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Aragorn Speaks - Words from Vigo Mortensen
Message-ID: <20050902233530.85413.qmail@web50910.mail.yahoo.com>

In the often and rightly quoted words of Bill Clinton, "There's nothing wrong with America that can't be fixed by what's right with America." We see now how individuals and groups around the country are acting in any way they can to help their fellow citizens in Louisiana, Mississippi and other devastated places near the Gulf of Mexico. They refuse to stand idly by and wait for President Bush and his morally-bankrupt, pirate administration to respond in an appropriately urgent and compassionate manner to the escalating agony and desperation of our fellow citizens. This agony and desperation was caused in large part by a near complete absence of adequate federal government funding, preparedness, and leadership. We the people will continue to help Americans and non-Americans alike, with or without the participation or approval of George W. Bush and his Neo-Conservative cohorts. While it is true that what is most important right now is to rescue, feed, house, and in any way possible
 care for those immediately affected by the disaster, it is equally true that in the long run those directly responsible for aggravating the tragic situation must be held accountable. The mounting evidence of the Bush administration's criminal mismanagement of the nation, as well as its consistently arrogant disregard for our planet's people and natural environments must be confronted immediately. Those who voted for Bush last year, or who have continually supported his outlaw administration in its destructively dishonest conduct, including not only extremist conservatives but also politically-calculating democrats, need not hang their heads or avert their eyes now. What they can and ought to do is join the increasing numbers of Americans who are demanding that presidential impeachment proceedings be initiated as soon as possible. Members of the Bush Administration responsible for the blatant lies and self-serving manipulations that have fanned the flames of disaster from Iraq to New
 Orleans must be prosecuted as our laws require. We must insist on this. Furthermore, we must not allow these disgracefully unpatriotic public servants to be pardoned by any future president as Gerald Ford did for Richard Nixon. Please call or write your government representatives and help get the scoundrels out of government and in prison where they belong. Do not allow the subject to be changed, do not be distracted. The time to act is now. Take back your country. 
      - Viggo Mortensen, 1 Sept., 2005. 



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/408e3891/attachment.html 


From andy.edebate  Fri Sep  2 21:19:44 2005
From: andy.edebate (Andy Ellis)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:19:44 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] fw from max schnurer re katrina
Message-ID: <9368bc9b05090219193e650f99@mail.gmail.com>

Andy, 

Would you do me a favor? I want to post this to edebate, but I'm not subbed 
w/ my new addy. 
 Despite the lagging help of the policy debate community, it seems like some 
hip hop stars have something to say about Katrina. 
 http://p076.ezboard.com/fpoliticalpalacefrm57.showMessage?topicID=437.topic
 A Few Things to Ponder: Hip Hoppers Step Up Despite Losses A Few Things to 
Ponder: Hip Hoppers Step It Up Despite Huge Losses
by Davey D

Friday Sept 2 2005-Yesterday in New York BET, The National Urban League, 
Russell Simmons, Ben Chavis and the Hip Hop Summit Action Network, Chris 
Rock, Juvenile and Master P held a press conference and spoke to the 
devastation in New Orleans caused by Hurricane Katrina 

Juvenile who has already started relief efforts informed the audience that 
he has lost his home, but is determined to see New Orleans rebuilt. He also 
came armed with information and statistics to back up his points about the 
US being able to do all sorts of things all over the world including being 
over in Iraq but not doing as much as they could and should in impoverished 
communities here at home. Many folks were impressed that Juv was able to 
come off with well-researched information and that he was willing to throw 
down in spite of his losses. 

Master P who also lost many of his homes and businesses also spoke and told 
the audience that he's always dreamed of being able to leave New Orleans to 
travel the world as a rapper and basketball player, but he never thought 
he's see a day when he could not come back home? 

Sadly, Juvenile and Master P were not the only New Orleans based rappers to 
suffer major losses from Hurricane Katrina. We learned that Baby and his 
Cash Money Clique lost just about everything-from homes to studios. We heard 
that Baby managed to escape to Miami. We hope and pray that their families 
are ok. 

We offer up our heartfelt condolences to former No Limit rapper Mia X. Long 
time Yo-Yo hit me up the other day to let me know that a devastated Mia was 
trying to reach out to folks because she may have lost more then half her 
family to this tragedy. I'm not up on all the details, but the loss of life 
for even one loved one is heartbreaking. One can only imagine what Mia must 
be going through if she lost many more. Again our hearts and prayers go out 
to her for her losses. 

BET President Deborah Lee said that BET is putting together a huge telethon 
in conjunction with the Red Cross and The National Urban League on September 
9th. Scores of artists and celebs are expected to take part as music mogul 
Russell Simmons promised to help deliver as many artists as he can to the 
events. 

Chris Rock kicked off his remarks by talking about how places like Biloxi, 
Mississippi needed our help like 3 weeks ago. He joked about the challenge 
people had when they got into the airport and tried to hail a cab to get 
somewhere. He then honed in on the serious nature behind his humorous 
remarks which basically centered around how our collective neglect for these 
poor areas are now manifesting in what we are seeing today in new Orleans 
and Mississippi. 

Although not in attendance at the New York press conference, we have to 
acknowledge the relief efforts and losses of other Hip Hop icons. First up 
we have Mississippi's prodigal son, David Banner who has sparked off relief 
and repair efforts in his home state. He is currently planning to put 
together some sort of benefit concert when the time is right.He also has a 
Heal the Hood Foundation and last I heard he was trucking bottled water into 
impoverished areas in Mississippi

Jay-Z and P-Diddy have stepped up and have each donated one million dollars 
to the Red Cross. They have also donated large amounts of clothing from 
their companies Roc-a-Wear and Sean John. 

Ludacris has stepped it up and his using funds from his Ludacris Foundation 
to help in the relief efforts.

James Prince who is the CEO of Rap-A-Lot records has done what most of these 
major labels have yet to do. He's stepped up and he opened up a shelter in 
Houston for refugees coming in from New Orleans and Mississippi. It's hard 
to believe that in the most affluent and technologically advanced nation on 
the planet that in 2005 we have refugees from this country. Say what you 
will, but in a country that has thousands of hotels, closed down army bases 
and other underused and unused facilities why do we have what we have in the 
wake of Katrina? 

What also struck me about Prince, the CEO of Rap-A-Lot Records is how he as 
a label owner stepped up to contribute. He clearly recognizes that a good 
part of his label's success is because of the talent that has merged from 
many of those poor impoverished neighborhoods in the Gulf States. What I'm 
surprised to NOT hear are words from all those multi-national corporate 
owned major labels who have been relatively silent. One would think that 
when you consider the huge jazz and blues catalogues owned by some of these 
major label groups that they would be among the first to be helping out and 
making public declarations to help bring relief to this area that has made 
them billions not millions. 

What we've gotten from these major record labels in the form of their public 
representative the RIAA is an announcement in the mists of all this 
devastation, that they intend to sue 754 more 'illegal' music down-loaders. 
I checked the news clippings and even the RIAA website this Friday morning 
(Sept 2) and saw no mention of them helping or even giving a link to the 
Katrina relief efforts. (I took screen shots of all those websites if anyone 
wishes to see them or thinks I am lying). That includes all the big wigs 
like Interscope Records, which is home to 50 Cent and Eminem to J records, 
which is home to Alicia Keyes to Sony records. These labels spin millions a 
year for fancy parties and shindigs during the award shows. They spend lots 
of dough on music convention-many of them held in New Orleans. We all know 
that many of them spend crazy money on airplay and magazine ads. Will they 
bring that sort of spending power to the relief efforts? 

The only major label that I saw with any sort of acknowledgement was 
Universal Records, which has a public service announcement from George Bush 
and a list of charities and links so one can donate. You cannot even go to 
the website without being asked to donate and learning about the disaster. I 
am almost certain Universal will be following up with donations and 
resources of their own, which is a good thing. Let us hope other major 
labels will follow suit or at the very least instruct the RIAA to chill on 
these ill-timed lawsuits. 

Can you imagine how sad it would be if some of those RIAA lawsuits are for 
people who have been left homeless and their lives destroyed in that region? 
What would be good is they took the money from the 14 thousand they filed 
and settled with for an average of 3 thousand bucks a piece and donate that 
to the relief efforts. 

Again my point is that while it's great that we can point to dozens of 
artists stepping it up and donating time money and resources, where are the 
real beneficiaries who have gleamed so much the people of that region? This 
was a point that Juvenile and Master P made at the conference. They 
emphasized how much the city of New Orleans alone has given to the world 
both culturally and musically. New Orleans would be more than just missed if 
it were not rebuilt. Maybe this will change in time, with respect to these 
major labels, we'll just wait and see? 

Relief efforts have been in full swing by Hip Hop activists throughout the 
country since day one. Everyone from author/activist Kevin Powell to radio 
host Rosa Clemente to Erica Ford have all been on the ground sparking off 
organizing efforts from around the country. For example, next Thursday in 
New York, Powell is spearheaded a fundraiser benefit that is the same vein 
as his annual blanket relief events he does around the holidays. 

Clemente was on air at WBAI in new York the other night banging the drums to 
get more community folks active by donating to organizations and following 
through to make sure that what they give goes directly to the communities in 
need. Her along with organizations like the Malcolm X Grassroots Committee 
are compiling a list of charities who have good reputations in the region. 
What has been found in the past is that many charities do not always get 
resources to the people who need them the most. 

Erica Ford who works closely with Ja Rule and his grassroots organization is 
getting a rally together where folks can donate this weekend in conjunction 
with the Millions More Movement.

In Chicago, Hip Hop author Hadji Williams (Don't Knock the Hustle) has been 
hard at work donating proceeds from his newly released book this weekend to 
Hurricane victims. 

In Atlanta, Hip Hop publicist Shemia Miller who works with artist like Game, 
Jermaine Dupri and Kam to name a few has been on the grind getting relief 
underway in her neck of the woods.

Here in the Bay Area activists like Tony Colemen from Mindz Eye Collective 
and All of Us or None are preparing some sort of relief efforts. Katrina 
although was 3000 miles away, it really struck close to home because fellow 
activist Mike Milloy (spelling may be off) has not been able to contact his 
family who live in New Orleans. Everyone fears for the worse because of the 
destruction in the area where they reside. 

All that has been mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg. We asked the 
hard question earlier this week where is Hip Hop? One thing for sure many of 
the artists and their immediate associates are all stepping up and throwing 
down. All this should be encouragement for others to do the same, if for any 
reason because this is home and these are our people. Like I suggested 
earlier take a few of those diamonds off that watch or out that grill and 
help out. The other thing to keep in mind is that all this should be a 
lesson for us to start preparing so we can survive any other tragedy. The 
obvious poor planning and ill preparedness of the federal government has 
shown that the only folks we can rely on in times like this is ourselves and 
the strong networks of people we have built around us. 

Susan Taylor of Essence Magazine spoke to the biased media coverage. She 
asked the reporters that were on hand to go back to their newsrooms and 
insist that they stop trying to show the people as animalistic criminals who 
are looting. She talked about how many of the victims are getting what they 
need to survive and in many places; there are no store clerks to take money. 


Taylor's points were underscored by some news agencies that have actually 
shown the coverage behind the looting, where you have people with babies who 
have been left alone for 2or 3 days with no help at all. Fox News in LA has 
been very good at bringing this point to light. In addition, while you do 
have some lawlessness, it is in the minority compared to all those who have 
been pulling together and trying to make it through one of the worst 
disaster to ever hit the US. 

xxFrommy own personal experience as a journalist, I too have seen how things 
get twisted. There are two glaring cases that come to mind. The first was in 
1989 after the devastating earthquake in San Francisco. The national media 
went and tried to make the residents of West Oakland look like criminals who 
were looting cars and people trapped under the Cypress Freeway. You had many 
people doing the armchair thing about how terrible these people were until 
it was realized that what they thought was looting was actually local 
residents risking life and limb to try to rescue people still alive and 
buried under the rubble. Some people were going back bringing trapped people 
water and health supplies. Others were going back and grabbing pursues and 
IDs for stricken and shocked family members. To this day people who saw the 
initial coverage still saw West Oaklanders as looters and not heroes. In 
addition, it was years after the earthquake before that, part of town were 
repaired. 

The other incident was in London during the first bomb attacks. I was there 
and actually covered it. I gathered many interviews and have on tape person 
after person stating that the bombings were no big deal because they happen 
all the time and that the latest incident was the result of Bush and Prime 
Minister Tony Blair's foreign policies. I was there with other reporters and 
I watched with my own eyes as some of my mainstream counterparts went out of 
their way to try and find somebody who was panicked by the attacks and 
willing to blame Al Queda. What was being aired on national news in no way 
reflected what we all experienced at the bombing sites. In fact, we wound up 
eating dinner at a packed restaurant right across the street from open of 
the bombing sites and even took the subway home. More importantly, Londoners 
were not running around panicked. I have all this on tape, which we aired. 

These examples are cited to bring to light what we are seeing with some of 
this coverage in New Orleans in terms of bias. For example, there are 
hundreds of dead bodies floating in those floodwaters; they have not shown 
that on TV. In those flood waters are alligators, they have not shown that. 
There was one news report that I actually did see about an elderly couple 
being trapped in their cars and 8 alligators swimming around them waiting to 
eat them if they left the car. 

In many places there are people who are without homes who have been outside 
enduring the harsh elements for 2-3 days. That story has not been fully 
told. People think that it was real easy for folks to bounce out of town 
when they got the evacuation orders. We're now finding out such activities 
were poorly executed and in many cases damn near impossible. 

To underscore this point, folks may wanna check out a show they aired on the 
Discovery Channel a few month's ago about changing weather conditions. They 
focused on Hurricanes and described an impending scenario about Hurricane X 
striking New York City. Scientist believe it's only a matter of time before 
a catastrophic wind storm hits the big apple. During the show they showed 
how hard it would be for New Yorkers to leave the area and get out of harms 
way once the orders were given. The key words here are 'harm's way'. 

What a lot of people fail to realize is that Katrina didn't directly hit New 
Orleans. The direct hits took place outside the city itself. It struck in 
many of the areas that people were running away to. Many of the homes 
destroyed are outside of New Orleans as well. In other words, with a storm 
this wide and so huge and planes grounded you were likely to get hit unless 
you were able to get to the center of the state and even then it didn't mean 
that you could do easily and quickly. 

It's like telling folks in San Francisco to get out of town because an 
Earthquake is coming and they rush across the Bridge to Oakland. That ain't 
gonna do no good. During rush hour it takes 2 hours just to get 40 or 50 
miles away from Frisco. Can you imagine what things would be like during an 
ill planned evacuation Where you gonna run to when earthquakes and their 
damage can be felt hundreds of miles away? 

We also have to note that you have rampant price gauging and we're not 
talking about gas only. That's another story that hasn't been fully 
reported. Instead of giving supplies away you have people trying to charge 
top dollar in the some of the nation's most impoverished communities for 
badly needed supplies. 

You have scenarios where the police themselves have been looting. Lastly you 
don't see a lot of reports about George Bush refusing to tell his oil 
buddies to sacrifice and lower gas prices. He was asked this by Diane Sawyer 
earlier today. 

This is not to say that everything is kosher and everyone is without fault 
in New Orleans, but this is a life or death situation for a lot of folks. It 
should also be a hard lesson for all of to learn from. Are we prepared for a 
disaster when it strikes us. Can I really leave the bay if a massive 
Earthquake hits? Do I have enough supplies on hand? What am I willing to do 
if my house which is on solid ground is left standing while nearby house on 
soft land are decimated? Having a 'tell them to go eat cake' attitude in the 
face of disaster don't cut it especially when people feel their survival is 
at stake... 

Quote from Afrika Bambaataa-November 2004 
Well, I see that people have really disrespected Mother Earth which is a 
living entity. If you disrespect Mother Earth, she will spit your ass out. 
We have become a cancer to her and with all this bombing and chemical 
warfare in different places and stuff like that; Mother Nature is going to 
put it on human's butts all over the planet. That movie 'The Day After' was 
a movie sent by the creator for all people to see, just like the Matrix. All 
this is definitely going on. If you notice right after they released that 
movie 'The Day After Tomorrow', it looked like some of the same stuff 
(bizarre, destructive weather conditions) was happening right over Florida 
and many other places. It's gonna get more serious as this millennium goes 
forth?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/f7315c49/attachment.htm 


From trenchant_calculate  Fri Sep  2 22:34:08 2005
From: trenchant_calculate (Kenney Trent, Esq.)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:34:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Relief effort by former SELA students, and lagniappe.
Message-ID: <20050903033408.55521.qmail@web53715.mail.yahoo.com>

Greetings friends.  I am a former debater at Southeastern Louisiana, and am now a Florida attorney.  My college roomate was a great guy named Jeff Bloch, who is now a member of the United States Park Police in Washington, D.C.  He married a woman from the Hammond, Louisiana area (about an hour north of New Orleans, where the school is located), and has been anxious to travel back to Louisiana to check on friends and family members, as well as to assist in the relief/rebuilding efforts.  I am not personally a big fan of police in general, but as we all know there are exceptions to every rule. Jeff is one of them.  He mentioned that he was thinking of taking the last of his personal leave time to travel to Louisiana and Mississippi to help out, but that he did not have the money to do that. I told him I would "sponsor" him with $500 - - after all, I figured, I was planning on donating some money anyway, and I'd rather donate it in a manner through which I could have certainty that it
 would actually do some good, than give it to some "charity."  This started the ball rolling, and in the last few days Jeff has been able to obtain some matching donations from D.C. businesses, family members, and strangers.  At this point, he is setting up a big truck to carry groceries, diapers, generators, etcetera to the Gulf Coast region.  
 
It seems quite clear that there is only so much the government can do in a situation like this, and that private efforts should be encouraged.  I, for one, would like to see the government give tax write-offs this year for contributions and charitable efforts directed through private individuals and enterprises, and plan to write a Congressman or two in an effort to propagate this particular meme.
 
Similarly, I encourage anyone who is willing and has the means to do so to donate to Jeff's personal relief mission.  I can't make any promises as to the *particular* uses of any funds donated, but I can make a *general* promise: that every last penny will be dedicated to genuine relief efforts in the region in the next week (including gas for the travel to and from the area, and food for the volunteers).  Doubtless some cynics will see in this message some ulterior motive, and those who do are free to believe whatever they like.  Nonetheless, I for one hope that through this, and other individual efforts, the great humane spirit of good Americans can overcome a substantial portion of the grief, tragedy, misery, and evil we see unfolding on our television sets each day.
 
If you care to contribute, go to www.paypal.com and send money to thespeedycop at hotmail.com.  I will report back with the results, and the uses to which the money was put, and will provide photographs.  Thank you so much.
 
Kenneth Trent (954)261-8205; (954)822-9402; (407)880-5877; and
Jeff Bloch (301)675-8006.



"Truth never damages a cause that is just"--Mohandas Gandhi

"Few people are capable of expressing opinions with equanimity which differ from the prejudices of their social environments.  Most people are incapable of even forming such opinions."--Einstein
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050902/2c3a4018/attachment.html 


From cpwiii  Sat Sep  3 01:42:38 2005
From: cpwiii (cpwiii at bellsouth.net)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:42:38 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] gee, thanx---please help
Message-ID: <000601c5b052$aeadf4d0$5ef94cd8@cpwiii>

Those of of us hit by Katrina, Dennis, and Ivan:

ANY CHANCE  ya'll could re-post GSU and KY invitations to me backchannel ---lost power for a while.  TX  (Particularly JW).  All my best, while at my worst.  Tod.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050903/01fe0ad6/attachment.htm 


From cpwiii  Sat Sep  3 01:47:16 2005
From: cpwiii (cpwiii at bellsouth.net)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:47:16 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] 10,000 dead! WTF! No Excuse. Simply No Excuse for this!
Message-ID: <000501c5b053$53d26a40$5ef94cd8@cpwiii>

Those who don't know speak.  And you MISSED the children dying.  No wonder you should shut up!!!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050903/dd7dee3d/attachment.html 


From cpwiii  Sat Sep  3 01:49:04 2005
From: cpwiii (cpwiii at bellsouth.net)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:49:04 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] The Bush Answer to Katrina
Message-ID: <000501c5b053$94211f60$5ef94cd8@cpwiii>

Another idiot who has'nt been there!!!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050903/f4856615/attachment.htm 


From cpwiii  Sat Sep  3 01:59:14 2005
From: cpwiii (cpwiii at bellsouth.net)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:59:14 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Hurricane Central
Message-ID: <000601c5b054$ffb09070$5ef94cd8@cpwiii>

Granted, Katrina PRETTY MUCH missed Pensacola, but Ivan and Dennis did not.  ONLY lost power for 16 hours, and wondered if I'd be alive tomorrow, but lost 7 hotels I represent, my sister and brother's houses, and other ACCROUTREMENTS.

People posting from any place further from HERE are not qualified to say anything, and should SHUT UP!!!

Pick any pea-nut gallery.

Best wishes.

All this political crap when people are DYING is bile.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050903/f37edd98/attachment.html 


From debatekorea  Sat Sep  3 02:34:30 2005
From: debatekorea (Jason Jarvis)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 03:34:30 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Hurricane Central
In-Reply-To: <000601c5b054$ffb09070$5ef94cd8@cpwiii>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F29F080D6013793C504957CAEA20@phx.gbl>

Good luck in dealing with the difficulties you have and are facing.

However, as Trond pointed out its a bit unfair to judge people just for 
writing their feelings.  Political debates may be all many of us can do as 
we are helpless.....and as those in charge seem to be even less useful.

For what its worth, half my family live in the Mobile area, i was born 
there....my uncle had his condo in Gulf Shores obliterated last year due to 
some hurricane whose name I forget.  My aunt, uncle, cousin and his wife and 
newborn were almost crushed by a 50 foot pine tree that decided to become a 
guest in their house during Katrina.

I too, go through the waiting and hoping game every year, praying that a 
random tree, flood, lightning bolt, or tornadoe spawned by the current big 
storm doesnt lead to a funeral flight back to the states.

Spare us your self righteousness, your attempt to silence people is lame, 
you dont have the only insight or a corner on the "truth" or moral high 
ground regarding the anarchy on the Gulf.
I would agree that the level of discourse should be higher....but, the WHOLE 
WORLD is watching this nonsense and its particularly salient to discuss WHY, 
and HOW this could be allowed to happen.

Someone also ought to explain to the citizens of America and the rest of the 
world why 95% of the refugees are black (can you?).

Congrats to George for saying the obvious: that the situation is fucked up 
and no one in charge has done much to fix it....but after the Mayor of New 
Orleans very understandable and emotional rant, what choice did George 
really have.....its not like he can spin this as another "mission 
accomplished"

my heart goes out to those in need


Jason L. Jarvis
Director of Debate, International Center for Speech and Debate
Kyung Hee University, Seoul , Korea
*********
Asian Debate Institute
http://debatekorea.blogspirit.com
**********
Korea Debate Listserv
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/koreadebatelist/




----Original Message Follows----
From: <cpwiii at bellsouth.net>
To: <edebate at ndtceda.com>
Subject: [eDebate] Hurricane Central
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:59:14 -0500

Granted, Katrina PRETTY MUCH missed Pensacola, but Ivan and Dennis did not.  
ONLY lost power for 16 hours, and wondered if I'd be alive tomorrow, but 
lost 7 hotels I represent, my sister and brother's houses, and other 
ACCROUTREMENTS.

People posting from any place further from HERE are not qualified to say 
anything, and should SHUT UP!!!

Pick any pea-nut gallery.

Best wishes.

All this political crap when people are DYING is bile.





From doyle  Sat Sep  3 04:31:09 2005
From: doyle (Doyle Srader)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 04:31:09 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] The Bush Answer to Katrina
Message-ID: <43196D5D.4060304@sfasu.edu>

Oops, almost forgot. We have determined that (closes his eyes and stabs 
his finger at the enemies list) ... ummm, North Korea is behind the 
hurricane. (No, wait, they have nukyuler weapons.) Okaaayyyy ... Iran! 
Iran is behind the hurricane. The proof is that "Katrina," is an anagram 
of "Iran 'tak." We will not tolerate Iran's attack; we will proceed at 
once to fight hurricanes in Iran so we don't have to fight them on our 
own streets.

Oh, and we need to open the ANWR. Or, um, a hurricane will hit Alaska.

-- 
Doyle Srader, Ph.D.
Lecturer, Speech Communication
Stephen F. Austin State University
http://www.faculty.sfasu.edu/f_sraderdw/

Ezekiel 36:26-27





From deansweberg  Sat Sep  3 09:02:55 2005
From: deansweberg (Dean Sweberg)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:02:55 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Relief effort by former SELA students, and lagniappe.
In-Reply-To: <20050903033408.55521.qmail@web53715.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV6111E8AF465F3129E8A7DB2A20@phx.gbl>

I'd like to say I commend Jeff's enthusiasm and willingness to personally
bring direct relief to the gulf.  I am a former debater from Western
Washington and now work for the American Red Cross in Iowa.  Unless you live
on the moon, you already know the Red Cross donation number and website and
all.  I just want to let everyone know that if you can't donate money, you
CAN donate three weeks of your time and go down as a Red Cross volunteer.
You will need to be trained by your local chapter, who (classroom space
permitting) will offer free classes in running a shelter, distributing
cleanup supplies/food/water, etc.  The conditions you'd work under are very
harsh/extreme, but many people are in urgent need and this response is
requiring we quickly recruit many new volunteers.  This relief effort is
going to be LONG and it will become increasingly difficult to deploy
available volunteers as the weeks and months stretch on.  The Red Cross will
cover your travel and basic expenses if you are willing to be trained and go
to work for at least three weeks.  Even if you aren't available (can't give
three weeks now), getting trained allows us to contact you the next time the
urgent need exists. 
 
I am currently working in the headquarters of the 9-state midwest region
helping deploy volunteers from this area by the hundreds.I work here for one
more week here before I too leave for three weeks in the gulf.  If you have
questions, feel free to backchannel me at swebergd at iowarivers-redcross.org
but after next week I'll be out of email contact for a while.
 
Note: As you can imagine, local Red Cross chapters are getting swamped with
phone calls, so you might have to be patient if you call. 
 
Sorry for the non-debate related email.
Dean Sweberg
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050903/81e20e23/attachment.htm 


From matt_gerber27  Sat Sep  3 11:02:02 2005
From: matt_gerber27 (Matt Gerber)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:02:02 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] 10,000 dead! WTF! No Excuse. Simply No Excuse for this!
In-Reply-To: <1125686562.43189d225b8a7@webmail.grandecom.net>
Message-ID: <BAY102-F34E8C2C6E84603543FF4459CA20@phx.gbl>

TOLD by the authorities to evacuate 48 hours ahead of the storm.

Not to sound callous, I am as shocked as anyone about the disaster and 
bungled response. BUT, there were half-empty busses leaving the city for 2 
days during the MANDATORY evacuation.


>From: scottelliott at grandecom.net
>To: edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: [eDebate] 10,000 dead! WTF! No Excuse. Simply No Excuse for this!
>Date: Fri,  2 Sep 2005 13:42:42 -0500
>
>TEN THOUSAND DEAD! Ten Thousand in New Orleans area alone, and I would 
>guess
>9,950 are (1) African American (2) Elderly (3) below the poverty line (4) 
>with
>less than a high school education and (5) all of the above.
>
>10,000. 10,000! Dead due to pure and unadulterated lack of attention and
>planning! Told by the experts that this was the third most likely scenario 
>for
>mass disaster in the United States. Told by the NOAA scientists  at least 
>three
>weeks in advance that there was 100% probability of Category 5 huricanes
>striking the GUlf Coast. Have you ever heard of a meterologist saying "100%
>chance!?" Told by NOAA that it was "imperative" that federal and state
>govenrments prepare in the wake of a 100% guaranteed prediction of
>mega-hurricanes. Told by the USACE that the levees could barely withstand a
>category three storm. Gutted, yes, gutted by at least 40% the Corps' levee
>building capability just last year. Four days before some people get a 
>fucking
>bottle of water. WTF?! Its a truckload of water. Budweiser in Houston 
>produces
>a truckload of beer in less than five minutes. They could have had canned 
>water
>in New Orleans within five damn hours. Man, even I think there needs to be 
>some
>ass kicking of the people in charge on this. Unacceptable. Simply 
>outrageous.
>
>Scott
>
>
>BATON ROUGE, United States (AFP) - US Senator David Vitter said that the 
>death
>toll from Hurricane Katrina could top 10,000 in Louisiana alone.
>
>
>"My guess is that it will start at 10,000, but that is only a guess," 
>Vitter
>said, adding that he was not basing his remarks on any official death toll 
>or
>body count.
>
>Vitter, a Louisiana Republican, also called for the immediate deployment of
>regular US combat troops in New Orleans, saying the build-up of National 
>Guard
>troops was too slow to quickly restore order.
>
>Such a step would require Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco to formally 
>request
>the dispatch of federal army soldiers, a highly unusual step.
>
>Blanco said on Thursday that she had asked for 40,000 troops, the majority 
>of
>which are National Guard units from Louisiana and elsewhere.
>
>Five-thousand National Guard troops are expected to be on the ground in
>violence-wracked New Orleans by late Friday, military leaders said.
>
>But Vitter said that timeline could be too slow, amid reports that bands of
>armed men are roaming the streets in the city, which is 80 percent 
>submerged in
>floods brought in by a storm tide after the hurricane hit on Monday.
>
>Vitter, speaking to reporters at the emergency response center in Baton 
>Rouge,
>also said he gave the federal government a grade 'F' for its response to 
>the
>disaster so far.
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>eDebate mailing list
>eDebate at ndtceda.com
>To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
>http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate





From RSMITHTTU  Sat Sep  3 12:19:46 2005
From: RSMITHTTU (RSMITHTTU at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:19:46 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] Bush's Storm Response
Message-ID: <86.2fab4e35.304b3532@aol.com>

While it is certainly not President Bush's fault that Katrina hit the Gulf  
coast, it is undeniable that the game of chess he has been playing with  
American Soldiers and the country of Iraq is at least partially responsible  for the 
pathetic response to this natural disaster.  I find it ironic that  President 
Bush calls himself a fiscal conservative. What is conservative about  massive 
deficient spending to support a completely unnecessary war? He's like a  
college freshmen running up her/his family's credit card so he can play laser  
tag/war video games 24 hours a day instead of going to class. All the  while, his 
family is suffering at home from a disaster and desperately need  help but 
he's already maxed out the family credit card so there isn't much help  to give. 
Imagine how fast we could have responded to this disaster and how  fast we 
could rebuild the gulf coast if we had all the money and military  resources, 
currently being pumped into Iraq, at our disposal. Funding for FEMA  has been 
steadily decreasing for a while now, while military spending has  been 
increasing. YOU DO THE MATH! 
 
-There are many reasons why it took the national  guard several days to 
arrive in Louisiana. 
-There are many reasons why more people were not saved by military  
operations after the storm.
-There are many reason why supplies are so scarce.
 
Not all, but most of these reasons are directly  related to simple 
economics.....................
Our president has chosen to place the safety of his own citizens behind the  
game of chess he's playing in Iraq. While I am certainly not a Bush fan, I was 
 impressed with how well he responded immediately after 9-11.  However,  
Katrina is far more catastrophic than 9-11 was and this time the response has  
been unbelievably terrible. Yes, I said it, he seems to be nearly as concerned  
about the hurricane victims as he is about the soldiers and innocent children  
that die in Iraq on a daily basis.
 
Peace,
 
Ryan
 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050903/c931a7ea/attachment.html 


From mmk_savant  Sat Sep  3 13:28:16 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:28:16 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] debate's resident hero
Message-ID: <BAY101-F39D869E6E9FF903E81D1E2E4A20@phx.gbl>

of course he was called in to assist in the hurricane rescue effort.

Bob Lechtreck will be gone helping with the Katrina rescue effort for a few 
weeks.

BC Debate will be taking donations of frontline answers to generic negative 
positions until his safe return.

Michael Korcok





From tlyden  Sat Sep  3 14:39:10 2005
From: tlyden (todd lyden)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:39:10 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] Al Qaeda Takes Credit For Katrina. President Bush Concerned.
Message-ID: <BAY103-F34BE4E750C7EC640207A10C1A20@phx.gbl>

(Washington, D.C.) A tape aired today by Arab news network, Al-Jazeera, in 
which Bin-Laden right hand man, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, claims that the 
devastation in Louisiana was "our act of meteorological terror unleashed 
upon the infidels" is causing concern in Washington.

Though as of this writing the CIA and NSA have not verified the tape as 
authentic, CIA Chief Porter Goss issued this statement. "We are concerned 
about this claim. However, there exists no credible evidence to link Al 
Qaeda and hurricane Katrina. But as a precaution, 500 meteorologists in the 
New Orleans area have been detained for questioning under Section 3,987, 
Subsection 5,678, Sub-subsection 3, Weathermen As Enemy Combatants, of the 
Patriot Act."

The Al-Jazeera tape shows al-Zarqawi sitting on the ground dressed in a 
yellow, "Gordons of Gloucester-type" rain coat. Beside him is a large 
"golf-type" umbrella and behind him is a "weather graphic" of a tornado. 
Al-Zarqawi claimed that "while we have unleashed the hurricane terror of 
Louisiana, we are not responsible for the destruction of Mississippi. That 
was Providence, and it shows Providence is on our side. Praise rain. Praise 
wind."

Porter Goss also addressed this point in his statement. "It is this 
selective weather terror that causes us to doubt the link. However, the 
"weather graphic" may have a link to US based Al Qaeda meteorologists, which 
is the reason for their detainment."

This afternoon, the White House issued a statement by President Bush. "The 
American People can rest assured that we are doing our utmost to get to the 
bottom of this. But while we are confident that we will prevail should it be 
proven that this natural disaster was terror driven, let's face it--we're 
going to have to write off Intelligent Design."

Calls to Press Secretary Scott McClellan's office asking if this was simply 
a White House ploy to divert attention from an administration that was 
woefully lagging in dispatching the National Guard to the area because the 
National Guard is in tatters due to Iraq were met with a return call that 
Press Secretary McClellan will be unable to answer any questions due to an 
emergency ulcer operation.

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i9141





From jfoy  Sat Sep  3 17:11:02 2005
From: jfoy (Foy, John A.)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:11:02 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] Loves Me Some Bellinger
Message-ID: <F6DE8F0B15888A4F9E0769262B3AE65675BC49@its83.regis.net>


That is all, carry on
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050903/87522f91/attachment.htm 


From debate  Sun Sep  4 09:52:48 2005
From: debate (debate at ou.edu)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 09:52:48 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Bechtel rebuilding New Orleans....
Message-ID: <b129b1b67a92.431ac3f0@ou.edu>

So i heard this brief interview with the Bechtel adminster.


Wouldnt it be great if Bechtel could rebuild New Orleans?  Then Bush can receive some kickbacks after his four year term.

We can have the same company that is "rebuilding" baghdad rebuild new orleans.

Such creative minds at work.  I bet they would offer a great deal!


Just some things to look forward to.  Some are looking at this as another "cash cow'.  With natural disasters, we dont even have to blow up other countries and make them miserable.  We let a natural disaster hit, waller in misery for a while, then let these "efficient" companies rebuild another city.  I am sure we should call in Haliburton also.


peace,

Bechtel Groupie




From mmk_savant  Sun Sep  4 14:06:26 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 15:06:26 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] supreme court
Message-ID: <BAY101-F303C156832FDF86C65AD86E4A50@phx.gbl>

Renominate John Roberts to replace Rehnquist as Chief Justice.
Edith Brown Clement to replace O'Connor.
Alberto Gonzales gets the next one.

absent insider dirt about Clement and Gonzales, they are great choices and 
likely the next 2
"safe, go gently but certainly right" picks.

Edith Brown Clement is a New Orleans attorney turned 5th Circuit Appeals 
(Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi) judge.  she is a woman.  she is moderate 
right.

the Roberts to Chief Justice and Clement too choice leaves Democrats without 
a good answer:
what will they say besides "unh... well... that is... dammit!"

the real question is whether Bush should grasp for more than this.  Scalia 
for Chief Justice, Edith Jones and John Roberts for associates, for example.

The surest path for him is the right side of middle, though:  let the left 
continue to alienate the rest of us by screeching shrilly against moderates. 
The loony left has, after all, been Bush's strongest ally all along (a 
strategy learned from Clinton who perfected support thru having shrill 
enemies).  Mid-term elections are coming up after all and why not go for a 
history-withering party-in-power gets even more in back-to-back mid-terms.

Michael Korcok





From trond  Sun Sep  4 16:35:57 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 17:35:57 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] supreme court
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F303C156832FDF86C65AD86E4A50@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F303C156832FDF86C65AD86E4A50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050904173557.a1awhhw00wsswgwg@web.mail.umich.edu>

I am mortified that you would raise such crass political and tactical 
questions
at a time when the whole country must unite behind the Great Leader so he can
save all those sinners.

Trond E. Jacobsen

Quoting Michael Korcok <mmk_savant at hotmail.com>:

> Renominate John Roberts to replace Rehnquist as Chief Justice.
> Edith Brown Clement to replace O'Connor.
> Alberto Gonzales gets the next one.
>
> absent insider dirt about Clement and Gonzales, they are great 
> choices and likely the next 2
> "safe, go gently but certainly right" picks.
>
> Edith Brown Clement is a New Orleans attorney turned 5th Circuit 
> Appeals (Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi) judge.  she is a woman.  she 
> is moderate right.
>
> the Roberts to Chief Justice and Clement too choice leaves Democrats 
> without a good answer:
> what will they say besides "unh... well... that is... dammit!"
>
> the real question is whether Bush should grasp for more than this.  
> Scalia for Chief Justice, Edith Jones and John Roberts for 
> associates, for example.
>
> The surest path for him is the right side of middle, though:  let the 
> left continue to alienate the rest of us by screeching shrilly 
> against moderates. The loony left has, after all, been Bush's 
> strongest ally all along (a strategy learned from Clinton who 
> perfected support thru having shrill enemies).  Mid-term elections 
> are coming up after all and why not go for a history-withering 
> party-in-power gets even more in back-to-back mid-terms.
>
> Michael Korcok
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
>
>
>





From mvolpe1  Sun Sep  4 16:44:23 2005
From: mvolpe1 (Megan A Volpert)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:44:23 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] megan volpert is still alive and still in baton rouge
Message-ID: <OF0403281D.01A0992D-ON86257072.00776BD8-86257072.00776BDE@lsu.edu>




subject heading pretty much sums it up.  my phone service is still very
sporadic, but at least twice a day i've been getting voicemails from debate
people i haven't heard from in ages.  hence, now that my power is back on,
this generic email to all who have spent two minutes being concerned about
my welfare due to katrina: i am just fine, and thanx so much for thinking
of me.

the news is great at displaying the extent of the damage, as per usual, but
so far has been lacking in a portrait of what solutions have been
happening.  i can only speak to what is going on around me in baton rouge
every day--but that's quite a lot.  my city has taken on thousands of
refugees, and everyone i know has been consumed by the relief effort.
there is a huge ton of work still to be done, but the hospitality cajun
culture is so famous for has quickly and easily been translated into a
massive campaign to cope with the situation.  if watching the news is
starting to freak you out in an unbearable way, take heart: i have been
observing all week with what tenacity the dirty south survives.

peace and blessings...

~m




From tpreston  Sun Sep  4 17:29:39 2005
From: tpreston (Tom Preston)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:29:39 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Katrina
Message-ID: <E5110E378848754CA99CE7F4A6B00FC57C6F7C@vader.gc.peachnet.edu>

All: 

I hope that all colleagues affected directly by Hurricane Katrina are safe.
I have fond memories of the area from Mardi Gras debate tournaments past as
well as the NCA and ICA conventions over the past few years in New Orleans.

Judging by the flood of 1927, Betsy in 1965, and now Katrina, it looks more
like a 40 year rather than a 500 year pattern for flooding.  Perhaps the best
argument over the issue I've heard was made "performatively" the other
evening by Aaron Neville in his rendition of the song "Louisiana 1927", whose
lyrics perhaps are just as applicable to Katrina's aftermath today as they
are to the event about which they were written.  

As most of you know by now as I imagine you've already donated, the site
http://www.give.org/news/katrina.asp seems to be a good starting point for
searching for charities involved in the relief effort.  I am interested in
learning other ideas in terms of what we can do now that, for whatever
reason, this has happened. . .

I've also learned much from the discussion and arguments so far on this
listserve, arguments that some thought "counterintuitive" back in the day,
suddenly don't seem so counterintuitive as once thought. . .

All good wishes to everybody,

Tom Preston
Professor of Communication
Gainesville College
Oakwood, Georgia
tpreston at gc.peachnet.edu








From mmk_savant  Sun Sep  4 17:54:13 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:54:13 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans trond
Message-ID: <BAY101-F29D60FA0E3CA84FDDFAC6CE4A50@phx.gbl>

shouldn't you be on your way to DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY!!!?
<that still cracks me up 2 days later... Trond demanding accountability...  
suhhhwwwweeet!>

look, it was simple.  only slime uses a natural disaster to advance their 
politics.  that's all i said.
i pointed to 2 obvious examples, Kennedy and Robertson.

but even that sent you all into paroxysms.
"you are silencing us!"
"no!  we must denounce Bush with every breath! DENOUNCE HIM!  Bush made the 
hurricane! Bush breeched the levee!"
"grummppphhhluk!  grrreeeffff!"

and then it got REALLY silly.

Parcher included himself among the "educated elite."  look.  your 
application was denied.  DENIED. we require our members to be literate.  be 
happy with membership in "Ignorant Lumpenleften" and let it go.  although 
your use of "retard-in-chief" puts you in the running for premier humorist 
of the far left, that is insufficient for admission into the "educated 
elite."

Stannard opined that my thought wasn't as careful as it used to be.  this 
from someone whose idea of a conversational thread is: "Good morning Matt." 
"You fascist apologist!  Trying to divert my attention from the crimes of 
capitalist exploitation of the heroic proletariat!  The morning is bleak and 
genocidal, not what you call "good". "Ah... ok... did you own a 1-speed bike 
as a youth, Matt?"

Although Stannard tried to be humorous at the end of 1 of his posts.  
Sarcasm or something.  Like you attempted humor in your last post.  Look, I 
do appreciate that you 2 are trying to cultivate a sense of playfulness.  
But... well... you suck at it.  Your senses of humor are akin to Soviet 
female shot-putters' sense of feminity...  a clunky, plodding, heavy clay 
plop.  Stannard writes:
"plop. bleccchhhhh. plop. dragggg. plop!"

Doyle.  HAHAHAHA!  every time i read Doyle any more i am reminded of scenes 
from Monty Python:  "Ducks float!  Witches float!  Witches weigh the same as 
ducks!  Everything that burns is made of wood.  Witches burn!  So witches 
are made of wood!  Bush looked at me with his Evil Eye!"

Trond, the trouble is that an idiotic set of memes has your nuts and won't 
let go.  Even cult droogs seem to have more freedom than you do.  You used 
to play with ideas.  Now they have you.  "DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY!"  that 
cracks me up!

Eric Morris, my friend.  Eric, your Bush arguments:  it would have taken a 
minimum of 20-25 years to upgrade the levees so no hope of solvency, Bush 
cut $2 billion from the budget because it was earmarked for locks along the 
Mississippi based on future barge traffic estimates that were screwed up, 
the reports are that abandoned grain barges crashed into the 17th St. levee 
and would have busted even category 5 levees, even the MIT guy says vast 
majority of the greater hurricane intensity is from natural factors and he 
won't claim even 1% greater intensity because of warming, if Bush had signed 
Kyoto in 2001, it still wouldn't have decreased warming even 1 bit by now.  
but i don't care.  NOT MY POINT.  my point was, and i think you largely 
agreed:  only a slime bag encounters this tragedy and uses it to advance 
their politics.  by, you know, cobbling together stupid arguments to bash 
Bush or by claiming that the devastation was just desserts for Hailey 
Barbour's opposition to Kyoto.  it really is not any more complex than that, 
bud.

I saw "The 40 Year Old Virgin" last night.  It was pretty funny.

(yes, Bob, i do expect outrage, venom, and bitterness in response to the 
above 2 sentences)

how is that Alyse?  not a single "d...bag" or "c...dumpster" in the whole 
post!

Michael Korcok





From trond  Sun Sep  4 20:27:45 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 21:27:45 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans trond
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F29D60FA0E3CA84FDDFAC6CE4A50@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F29D60FA0E3CA84FDDFAC6CE4A50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050904212745.vfwxlrwm4gkkksgg@web.mail.umich.edu>

> look, it was simple.  only slime uses a natural disaster to advance 
> their politics.  that's all i said.
> i pointed to 2 obvious examples, Kennedy and Robertson.

Absent the outrage it was too likely (certain?) the Bush administration would
continue to drag their feet.  If the bad mouthing created enough of a PR
problem that it caused his administration to accelerate their efforts 
by half a
day, no, even one minute, it was valuable.  Am I correct that you are weighing
some amorphous etiquette factor against saving lives?  Fine, call us unseemly.

I did not issue an anti-Bush jeremiad but asked that he be held 
responsible for
the acts and decisions of his administration in relation to disaster planning
before and in the wake of Katrina.  No Roberts, no social security, no Iraq,
etc.  A simple appeal for effective leadership in response to the worst 
natural
disaster in our history.

And I asked you to condemn the administration figures who were even then
politicizing the situation.  Your rank hypocrisy and the fact of an underlying
political agenda using the tragedy, the very crime you allege, are both 
clearly
revealed in your silence.

Finally, as you well know, much of the human impact is a function of planning
and human decision-making before and after the disaster.  Katrina was a
necessary but not sufficient condition for the realization of the horrors we
have witnessed along the Gulf Coast.  Incompetence and poor priorities in the
White House were necessary.

Why is it wrong to demand they be held accountable in proportion to 
their share
of responsibility?

> but even that sent you all into paroxysms.
> "you are silencing us!"

Said no such thing.  To someone else I expressed frustration regarding an
insinuation, at least one I perceived, in retrospect probably in error.  It?s
not very easy to shut me up.  No has tried or succeeded in silencing me.  Rush
Limbaugh is the only white guy I know who whines about being silenced.

> "no!  we must denounce Bush with every breath! DENOUNCE HIM!  Bush 
> made the hurricane! Bush breeched the levee!"
> "grummppphhhluk!  grrreeeffff!"

Of course, Mike, no one said any of these things, least of all me.

> Trond, the trouble is that an idiotic set of memes has your nuts and 
> won't let go.  Even cult droogs seem to have more freedom than you 
> do.  You used to play with ideas.  Now they have you.  "DEMAND 
> ACCOUNTABILITY!"  that cracks me up!

I really do not know what much of that means (what is a droog?), but I do
appreciate the 'd' and the caps.

To recap, an argument opponent said that it was ?perfectly acceptable 
to demand
accountability,? which is exactly what I did.  It?s called co-opting your
opponent.  It also seems a reasonable standard to apply, along with minimal
competence, in evaluating this, or any, president.  We may differ in our
expectations of minimum requirements.  It is the same rationale I used to
condemn Blanco, Landrieu, and Breaux, while recognizing their more limited
powers.

The first part of the sentence including the ?demand? you playfully mock, the
part where I said ?While your assertion that it is part of the American
political tradition that governing elites are held accountable is false,?
reveals how realistic I view this prospect under current arrangements.  Still,
the theater was worth it if it brought a smile to your face.

Mike, it really is OK to admit you were wrong about Bush.  I won?t hold it
against you and won?t let it affect my estimation of your intelligence.

Trond E. Jacobsen




From debate  Sun Sep  4 20:47:00 2005
From: debate (debate at ou.edu)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 20:47:00 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Fwd: Re:SELA
Message-ID: <baa62a5913be.431b5d44@ou.edu>

An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: W0214510 <emarlow at selu.edu>
Subject: Re:SELA
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:38:25 -0500
Size: 2259
Url: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050904/a48d6d0a/attachment.mht 


From privethedge  Sun Sep  4 20:57:59 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:57:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] ans trond
In-Reply-To: <20050904212745.vfwxlrwm4gkkksgg@web.mail.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <20050905015759.94211.qmail@web50912.mail.yahoo.com>

"What is a droog?" Come on? YOu mean you never watched "A Clockwork Orange" or read the book? If not, do so - great story about Alex and his droogs (Russian for friend) who consume drug laced milk and go on sprees of violence. I promise you, you'll never look at Bethoven's music the same way again. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050904/772b0cf0/attachment.htm 


From avats  Sun Sep  4 22:26:59 2005
From: avats (Anjali Vats)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 03:26:59 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] A Plea for Help
Message-ID: <1125890819.41cc5604avats@law.emory.edu>

Dear All:

I?ve read many of the posts over the past week about Katrina.  My purpose here is not to discuss the validity or appropriateness of those posts.  It?s rather a call to action for us, as a community, to get our asses out there and help.  It doesn?t matter if you personally knew someone that was affected.  People are hurting.  I know there are people in our community that are doing their parts but I also know that many, including myself, could be doing more.  

At the very least, please donate blood or money to the Red Cross or some other organization.  There are dozens of opportunities to help down in Atlanta, so if there are folks here that are interested, I?m willing to help organize something.  I went at 5:30 this morning to help set up a shelter at a local church and though I wasn?t there when the evacuees arrived, I will be there bright and early tomorrow helping.  I have to say, it felt really good.  If you would like to come tomorrow, I will be leaving my home at 10:30am.  Please contact me.  If you wish to set something up at GSU please let me know as well.  

Your help matters.  Just get out there.  I know it?s before the season opener, I know that debate is important and I know the feeling of having too much to do and too little time but this really is important.  There is no excuse not to do something.  Ten more cards aren?t going to make the difference but spending two hours volunteering will.  For all of you that are already volunteering, thank you.  For those of you that haven?t, get out there and help someone.  Please.  For all of you that have endured the effects of Hurricane Katrina, my love and support goes out to you.  

- Anjali






From stannardmatt  Sun Sep  4 23:21:18 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 22:21:18 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] ans trond
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F29D60FA0E3CA84FDDFAC6CE4A50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F223FAB726E3B0434C3CED7D2A40@phx.gbl>

You missed the point of my last post, but I clearly get the point of this 
one, Mike.

We are all naive, misled, evil, stupid, and you are the only smart one.  
Listen to yourself going down this list..."so and so is stupid, this guy 
doesn't know what he's talking about...I'm the only one here with any sense. 
They're all slimebags...I must call them names... If only the debate 
community hadn't forgotten how much smarter I am than all of them.  
If...only..."

It's pathetic that you have to attribute non-existent quotes to "paraphrase" 
the attitude you think I have.

Sad, man, really sad.

stannard


>From: "Michael Korcok" <mmk_savant at hotmail.com>
>To: edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: [eDebate] ans trond
>Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:54:13 -0400
>
>shouldn't you be on your way to DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY!!!?
><that still cracks me up 2 days later... Trond demanding accountability...  
>suhhhwwwweeet!>
>
>look, it was simple.  only slime uses a natural disaster to advance their 
>politics.  that's all i said.
>i pointed to 2 obvious examples, Kennedy and Robertson.
>
>but even that sent you all into paroxysms.
>"you are silencing us!"
>"no!  we must denounce Bush with every breath! DENOUNCE HIM!  Bush made the 
>hurricane! Bush breeched the levee!"
>"grummppphhhluk!  grrreeeffff!"
>
>and then it got REALLY silly.
>
>Parcher included himself among the "educated elite."  look.  your 
>application was denied.  DENIED. we require our members to be literate.  be 
>happy with membership in "Ignorant Lumpenleften" and let it go.  although 
>your use of "retard-in-chief" puts you in the running for premier humorist 
>of the far left, that is insufficient for admission into the "educated 
>elite."
>
>Stannard opined that my thought wasn't as careful as it used to be.  this 
>from someone whose idea of a conversational thread is: "Good morning Matt." 
>"You fascist apologist!  Trying to divert my attention from the crimes of 
>capitalist exploitation of the heroic proletariat!  The morning is bleak 
>and genocidal, not what you call "good". "Ah... ok... did you own a 1-speed 
>bike as a youth, Matt?"
>
>Although Stannard tried to be humorous at the end of 1 of his posts.  
>Sarcasm or something.  Like you attempted humor in your last post.  Look, I 
>do appreciate that you 2 are trying to cultivate a sense of playfulness.  
>But... well... you suck at it.  Your senses of humor are akin to Soviet 
>female shot-putters' sense of feminity...  a clunky, plodding, heavy clay 
>plop.  Stannard writes:
>"plop. bleccchhhhh. plop. dragggg. plop!"
>
>Doyle.  HAHAHAHA!  every time i read Doyle any more i am reminded of scenes 
>from Monty Python:  "Ducks float!  Witches float!  Witches weigh the same 
>as ducks!  Everything that burns is made of wood.  Witches burn!  So 
>witches are made of wood!  Bush looked at me with his Evil Eye!"
>
>Trond, the trouble is that an idiotic set of memes has your nuts and won't 
>let go.  Even cult droogs seem to have more freedom than you do.  You used 
>to play with ideas.  Now they have you.  "DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY!"  that 
>cracks me up!
>
>Eric Morris, my friend.  Eric, your Bush arguments:  it would have taken a 
>minimum of 20-25 years to upgrade the levees so no hope of solvency, Bush 
>cut $2 billion from the budget because it was earmarked for locks along the 
>Mississippi based on future barge traffic estimates that were screwed up, 
>the reports are that abandoned grain barges crashed into the 17th St. levee 
>and would have busted even category 5 levees, even the MIT guy says vast 
>majority of the greater hurricane intensity is from natural factors and he 
>won't claim even 1% greater intensity because of warming, if Bush had 
>signed Kyoto in 2001, it still wouldn't have decreased warming even 1 bit 
>by now.  but i don't care.  NOT MY POINT.  my point was, and i think you 
>largely agreed:  only a slime bag encounters this tragedy and uses it to 
>advance their politics.  by, you know, cobbling together stupid arguments 
>to bash Bush or by claiming that the devastation was just desserts for 
>Hailey Barbour's opposition to Kyoto.  it really is not any more complex 
>than that, bud.
>
>I saw "The 40 Year Old Virgin" last night.  It was pretty funny.
>
>(yes, Bob, i do expect outrage, venom, and bitterness in response to the 
>above 2 sentences)
>
>how is that Alyse?  not a single "d...bag" or "c...dumpster" in the whole 
>post!
>
>Michael Korcok
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>eDebate mailing list
>eDebate at ndtceda.com
>To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
>http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate





From stannardmatt  Sun Sep  4 23:59:32 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 22:59:32 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] ans trond
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F223FAB726E3B0434C3CED7D2A40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F61FC0CEB1918BA4E314E3D2A40@phx.gbl>

>It's pathetic that you have to attribute non-existent quotes to 
>"paraphrase" the attitude you think I have.

Irony intended here.  Probably ineffective.

Look, my only point was that you are doing what you have attacked others for 
doing.  I'm done here.  Believe what you wish to believe and be well.

stannard





From slusher  Mon Sep  5 00:33:12 2005
From: slusher (Eric Slusher)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 01:33:12 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Re: ans korcok
Message-ID: <7F5FA1C6-8317-4866-9EC2-01D983B985FE@gmail.com>


Oh, from this morning's NYT...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/ 
05bush.html?pagewanted=print&oref=login

Okay, so now the White House is finally playing politics.  You see,  
Devenish was getting married in Greece over the weekend so all the  
spinsters were attending the wedding.  Boy George didn't know what to  
do.  But they're back now.

And I'm guessing you'll be the first to call C+ Augustus a "slime"  
when the White House sends in the swift boats on Gov. Blanco.

More photo ops planned for the President today.  One of those  
"surprise visits", you know?  Wonder if he'll dust off the plastic  
turkey prop.

A bush supporter accusing the dems of playing politics.  THAT cracks  
ME up!

slusher




From chimejr  Mon Sep  5 01:56:50 2005
From: chimejr (Chime Asonye)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 23:56:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Help for Katrina victims from the Univ of IL
Message-ID: <20050905065650.17256.qmail@web81308.mail.yahoo.com>

This was a recent email sent out by the Chancellor of the Univerisity of Illinois. The bold part indicates places which may be points of special interest to victims of Katrina.:
 
"We all have seen the suffering and devastation caused by Hurricane 
Katrina, and our hearts go out to the victims and their families.  

The hurricane left thousands of college students without schools and 
homes.  The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is one of a large 
number of institutions across the nation working to assist these students. 
If you are contacted by a student or parent regarding the possibility of 
late admission because of the hurricane, please suggest that they contact 
the Office of Admissions and Records at 217/333-0302.  For financial aid 
assistance, please refer callers to 217/333-0100.  We are able to 
accommodate up to 40 students and have already received our first one, who 
will be on campus this weekend and will start classes next Tuesday.  For 
students who cannot come to Urbana, but want to continue their studies 
this fall, we are exploring ways to connect them to our Guided Individual 
Study courses.

Additionally, we are working with the Champaign County Red Cross to 
collect donations for all hurricane victims.  You can contribute Saturday, 
September 3rd and September 10th, at Memorial Stadium before the football 
games.  Volunteers also will be on campus Wednesday, September 7th, and 
Thursday, September 9th, at the entrances to the following locations: The 
Quad, the Physical Plant, Grainger Library, Wohler's Hall and the 
Veterinary Medicine Basic Sciences Building.

We also are exploring ways to accommodate displaced faculty and graduate 
students, and we are sharing our engineering and planning expertise 
through the Federal Emergency Management Agency and other response 
agencies.

There will be other steps we take as a campus to assist those who so 
desperately need our help, but these are things that we can do 
immediately.  Thank you for your generosity.

Sincerely,

Richard Herman 
Chancellor"

 
Good Luck those who are suffering,
Chime
U of I Debate

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050904/9a1c80d4/attachment.html 


From mmk_savant  Mon Sep  5 12:33:51 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:33:51 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans various
Message-ID: <BAY101-F34121D707A0D9E6B7478A5E4A40@phx.gbl>

yuck.  didn't even check till now that Ermo's response was backchannel.  
sorry.
(there was nothing "private" in it so i just ass-umed it was edebate)

at no point did i argue that people shouldn't criticize the administration.  
re-read it all.  won't find it.
at no point did i argue that people shouldn't criticize the pace of the 
response.  not once.
in fact i wrote the opposite.  i KNOW you read this part of "and Ermo":

"huh?  if someone thinks the response to this tragedy is too slow, 
inadequate, or misdirected, they should say so.  Kennedy, Robertson, and 
Blumenthal aren't doing that.  Kennedy is using the tragedy to push Kyoto,  
Robertson to fund his scam charity, and Blumenthal to take potshots at 
Bush."

NOT MY POINT.

why is it impossible for the left to NOT be all twisty?  why can't you just 
"play it straight"?  whatever the set of ideas does to you to make you all 
lefty ALSO seems to screw up your reading comprehension. dammit, just "play 
it as it lies" instead of fussing with the stupid ball.

it is not ALL joke when i taunt you all about being illiterate, about riding 
at one speed, about the memes having you.

IF IT LOOKS LIKE A DUCK AND QUACKS LIKE A DUCK STOP TRYING TO SADDLE IT UP.
it is a damn duck, stop treating it like a fucking horse!

have i conveyed to you that "don't criticize Bush/FEMA was NOT WHAT I WROTE?

i gave 2 examples of people NOT to be like because they were using the 
tragedy to advance their politics.

Robert F. Kennedy because he wrote that Katrina was just desserts for Hailey 
Barbour's memo opposing Kyoto.  cumdumpster.  His "argument" was that those 
who opposed Kyoto were somehow responsible because global warming increases 
hurrican intensity.  That is complete crap used as a bullshit excuse to use 
this tragedy to advance his politics.  right?  yes?  great.

Pat Robertson because he is using this tragedy to gather millions for his BS 
charity.  cumdumpster.  His idea that he can divert hurricanes by talking to 
God is almost as nonsensical as Kennedy's bullshit about how Kyoto could 
have prevented Katrina.  right?  yes?  wonderful.

that is ALL my first post on this subject said.  you read that and decided 
that i was calling your momma fat, that i was endorsing Wheat Thins (tm), 
that i enjoyed kicking schnauzers in their beady little noses, and that i 
was calling Wade Churchill a Basque midget toad licker.

my conclusion from that? the left is fucking illiterate.  can't read worth 
crap.  time to send them back to Dr. Seuss and My Little Pony.

Parcher posted an op-ed from Sydney Blumenthal that argued that it was all 
Bush's fault because he didn't fund a STUDY about the levees last year and 
continued a 25 year policy of not funding levee upgrades.  I agreed that fit 
my initial argument because anyone with 3 frikkin neurons connected together 
would immediately recognize those arguments for what they are:  bullshit 
excuses to bash Bush.

how the hell would funding a STUDY last year that takes years to complete 
prevent this tragedy?  how the hell would Bush fully funding a levee upgrade 
on his first day in office have prevented the 17th street breech, given that 
it would have taken 20-25 years to upgrade them?

right.  3 frikkin working neurons and you too would have gotten to the same 
conclusion i did.  Blumenthal is a slimebag using the tragedy to advance his 
political agenda.  Those are crap arguments he throws together for the sole 
purpose of justifying bashing Bush.

but no... THIS crap you take at face value.  yup yup... Bush is evil... yup 
yup...  Bush is incompetent... yup yup... plays to my prejudices and 
ideology so it HAS TO BE TRUE...  these are brilliant arguments that 
Blumenthal makes that convince me that BUSH BREECHED THE LEVEE!!!  IMPEACH 
BUSH!!!

or you could try to fire up NEURON NUMBER 3 too...  you know, THINK 
goddammit.  THINK CRITICALLY instead of being led around by a bunch of thug 
memes that have you by the nutsack.

so yeah... Kennedy, Robertson, and Blumenthal too.
cumdumpsters using a natural disaster to advance their politics.

as to the rest..

FEMA too slow?  i don't know.  and neither do you.  that you decided on day 
1 rather than going through a careful accountability process is pathetic.  
stay off juries.

Feds to blame?  i don't know.  but you decided they were instead of the 
governor/mayor or the legal process or the developing situation before any 
substantial information or perspective.  it is a complete mystery as to why. 
  oh wait.  no it isn't.  you filter your world thru a stupid ideology that 
turns off half your neurons and controls the rest.

criticism of Bush hastened the Federal response? yah... how convenient for 
you to think that.  fits nicely into the self-justifying mimetic mob up 
there.  how irrelevant that you have no reason to believe it except that it 
is self-rationalizing. happy thoughts, everybody!  happy thoughts!

and to answer Jacobsen's "Bush politicizing too" stuff.  Trond said that 
Chertoff and Brown were out early "politicizing" the tragedy.  just crap.  
they held press conferences because part of the job description for 
FEMA/Homeland is informing the public about actions being taken/not taken.  
they were asked tough questions by reporters.  they answered them.  if you 
don't distinguish between the Director of FEMA answering reporters' 
questions about an ongoing FEMA response to a natural disaster and Robert 
Kennedy's op-ed claiming that Mississippi deserved it becaues its Republican 
governor opposed Kyoto, then you need to read "DISTINCTIONS FOR DUMMIES" 
right after you finish "SIMPLE SHIT YOU SHOULD HAVE LEARNED BEFORE 
THIRTEEN".

and Slusher points out that Bush is politicizing the tragedy too.  get 
serious.  he was in Crawford first couple days then dawdled back to DC then 
finally got to the Gulf 4 or 5 days after the hurricane.  by then he had 
been criticicized by every pinko op-ed clown and screecher in the country.  
assault is a crime but i don't begrudge anyone who throws knuckles in 
self-defense.  in fact, i think he played it just right:  let the morons 
scream and screech, get the country annoyed with the shrill jerks, then 
engage.  that the centrist Democrats held their fire and stayed largely 
silent impressed me.  maybe they do know what's up.

also, for Morris:  the National Geographic ran a "prophetic" story about the 
levees last year: very informative.  There was an eye-witness interviewed 
who said he saw 2 empty grain barges smash into the 17th street levee, 
crumbling it, which flooded New Orleans.  dunno if his story will be 
confirmed in the months of investigation ahead.

and sorry Alyse for the bad language.  i am trying.  it is just that 
recalcitrance is my middle name.

dammit, i need to feed the fish!

Michael Korcok





From kjc32  Mon Sep  5 16:24:49 2005
From: kjc32 (Kenda Cunningham)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:24:49 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Georgetown University Assistant Coach
Message-ID: <431CB7A1.9000900@georgetown.edu>

Georgetown University is searching for someone to fill an assistant 
coaching position.  Unfortunately the individual who was supposed to 
work with the team this year has recently backed out.   If anyone is 
interested (preferably someone in the DC area) please contact me asap.  
Below is the original posting from June.

Thanks
Kenda

There is an opening for an assistant coach position at Georgetown 
University; this person will not only be asked to coach, but also to 
judge, travel and research for the Hoya debate team. At a minimum this 
person will attend the district tournament, the NDT (if Georgetown 
qualifies) and/or CEDA nationals. As the host of the JV/Novice nationals 
tournament this person must also be available and willing to assist with 
various tasks.
 
If you love debate and debaters at all levels, have experience coaching, 
were a successful debater and/or coach, and are interested in working 
with the Hoyas you are qualified. You do not need to have a degree. 
Driving the van is not a requirement for the job. Georgetown University 
is an equal opportunity employer. The individual will be hired as a 
consultant at $5000.

We will also have various judging opportunities high school and college 
alike. If you are in the D.C. area and would like to be on a list of
potential judges for us, let me know.
 
All questions regarding the position should be directed to me at: 
KCunningham at carrollton.org 
<mailto:KCunningham at carrollton.org?Subject=Re:%20%5BeDebate%5D%20Georgetown%20Assistant%20Coach%20Position%20Opening&In-Reply-To=F78BDB2E17FBE647BAC9292E111FC8F18A15C5 at exchsrv1.carrollton.org> 
or KendaCunningham at yahoo.com 
<mailto:KendaCunningham at yahoo.com?Subject=Re:%20%5BeDebate%5D%20Georgetown%20Assistant%20Coach%20Position%20Opening&In-Reply-To=F78BDB2E17FBE647BAC9292E111FC8F18A15C5 at exchsrv1.carrollton.org> 

 
Thanks in advance
Kenda


-- 
Kenda Cunningham
Director of Debate
Georgetown University
202-687-4079
kjc32 at georgetown.edu




From trond  Mon Sep  5 16:35:49 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:35:49 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans various
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F34121D707A0D9E6B7478A5E4A40@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F34121D707A0D9E6B7478A5E4A40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050905173549.pxgnk1xhz40080ck@web.mail.umich.edu>

Quoting Michael Korcok <mmk_savant at hotmail.com>:

> at no point did i argue that people shouldn't criticize the 
> administration.  re-read it all.  won't find it.
> at no point did i argue that people shouldn't criticize the pace of 
> the response.  not once.
> in fact i wrote the opposite.  i KNOW you read this part of "and Ermo":
>
> "huh?  if someone thinks the response to this tragedy is too slow, 
> inadequate, or misdirected, they should say so.  Kennedy, Robertson, 
> and Blumenthal aren't doing that.  Kennedy is using the tragedy to 
> push Kyoto,  Robertson to fund his scam charity, and Blumenthal to 
> take potshots at Bush."
>

So I guess now your beef is that I read poorly because my criticisms are fair,
if maybe not accurate?  That's collapsing down pretty darn far, to less 
than an
etiqutte concern.

I guess in a world where RFK Jr. is advanced as the leftist fringe, mirroring
Robertson on the right - shall we call that world NRO? - that your examples
have some force and appearance of balance.

Are you one of those "there's no human warming" conservatives now too?  Or are
you in on those "it will double plant growth cause it did in some API lab
somewhere" conservatives?  I think Inhofe still buys the warming stops ice age
story.  You in on that?

Obviously US rejection of Kyoto did not cause Katrina, though past 
human-induced
warming might have contributed to its ferocity (and maybe not), and most
scientists agree one likely consequence of unchecked warming is more frequent
and catastrophic weather events, though I am the first to admit I'm no
meteorologist and maybe hurricanes are not one of the predicted event types.

> why is it impossible for the left to NOT be all twisty?  why can't 
> you just "play it straight"?  whatever the set of ideas does to you 
> to make you all lefty ALSO seems to screw up your reading 
> comprehension. dammit, just "play it as it lies" instead of fussing 
> with the stupid ball.
>
> it is not ALL joke when i taunt you all about being illiterate, about 
> riding at one speed, about the memes having you.
>
> IF IT LOOKS LIKE A DUCK AND QUACKS LIKE A DUCK STOP TRYING TO SADDLE IT UP.
> it is a damn duck, stop treating it like a fucking horse!

Little more than spittle.

It is shocking how little meaning is carried in so much verbiage, even 
with the
caps adding their special magic.

> have i conveyed to you that "don't criticize Bush/FEMA was NOT WHAT I WROTE?
>
> i gave 2 examples of people NOT to be like because they were using 
> the tragedy to advance their politics.

Failing to prove anyone here is anything like either example.  While we are
here, let me implore everyone to not be like Benito.

> as to the rest..
>
> FEMA too slow?  i don't know.  and neither do you.  that you decided 
> on day 1 rather than going through a careful accountability process 
> is pathetic.  stay off juries.
>
> Feds to blame?  i don't know.  but you decided they were instead of 
> the governor/mayor or the legal process or the developing situation 
> before any substantial information or perspective.  it is a complete 
> mystery as to why.  oh wait.  no it isn't.  you filter your world 
> thru a stupid ideology that turns off half your neurons and controls 
> the rest.

> criticism of Bush hastened the Federal response? yah... how 
> convenient for you to think that.  fits nicely into the 
> self-justifying mimetic mob up there.  how irrelevant that you have 
> no reason to believe it except that it is self-rationalizing. happy 
> thoughts, everybody!  happy thoughts!

I suppose you are right.  Your story below that "master strategist" Bush was
just waiting for the lefties to spew all their bile before really getting
involved is much more credible than the administration strategists and Reps on
the hill speaking on background about Rove's fear of political fallout.

> and to answer Jacobsen's "Bush politicizing too" stuff.  Trond said 
> that Chertoff and Brown were out early "politicizing" the tragedy.  
> just crap.  they held press conferences because part of the job 
> description for FEMA/Homeland is informing the public about actions 
> being taken/not taken.

Talk about taking at face value - "we're just here to deliver the facts 
m'am" -
although I do suppose incompetence is a possible defense to political spinning
in this case.

You do realize that flooding the airwaves to show your tough manliness to
suburban soccer moms watching Fox in Indiana does not help stranded people in
New Orleans, who said again, and again, and again, they were mostly told
nothing about what to do or where to go (for which many parties deserve blame)
and that often what they were told, well, wasn't true.  See?

Times-Picayune reports with pictures of the levee breaking (without barge
damage) over the course of Monday, Chertoff says breaks Tuesday, maybe 
over the
night monday.

Lying or incompetent?

After more than 48 hours, with reporters on site and replying live, Brown
insists, more than once that there weren't thousands living in squalor in
Convention Center, and later they had water.

Lying or incompetent?

Could go on, but why?  You don't care and can't be moved while most Americans
already feel the president fumbled like Chuck Muncie.

> if you don't distinguish between the Director of FEMA answering 
> reporters' questions about an ongoing FEMA response to a natural 
> disaster and Robert Kennedy's op-ed claiming that Mississippi 
> deserved it becaues its Republican governor opposed Kyoto, then you 
> need to read "DISTINCTIONS FOR DUMMIES" right after you finish 
> "SIMPLE SHIT YOU SHOULD HAVE LEARNED BEFORE THIRTEEN".

When you finish, please send them my way because I did not say their
politicization was like that of your examples, but rather were their own
examples of politicization.  Could offer many others.

This distinction was, I think, made even more apparent by defining the type of
politizization in my post as ineffective efforts at damage control.  
See, right
there, that is a DISTINCTION, dummy.

You see, there are more ways to politicize than those you find 
troubling.  Take
for example, most of the intelligible things you have written over the past
several days.

> and Slusher points out that Bush is politicizing the tragedy too.  
> get serious.  he was in Crawford first couple days then dawdled back 
> to DC then finally got to the Gulf 4 or 5 days after the hurricane.  
> by then he had been criticicized by every pinko op-ed clown and 
> screecher in the country.

Pinkos like Senator Vitter (R-LA) and the many Republicans who were pushing a
response as the the President's on-issue favorable ratings plummetted 
15 points
over 72 hours and they began to seriously fret about long-term political
fallout?  We should run a centrist Dem against those symps.

>  assault is a crime but i don't begrudge anyone who throws knuckles 
> in self-defense.

I invoked the Bush doctrine of preemptive self-defense.  See, I knew Bush
mudslinging and fingerpointing was imminent, as Rove allows no other strategy,
and threw my knuckles early in anticipatory self-defense.  Even implied 
as much
in one of my posts, though not in so many words.  Read more carefully.

in fact, i think he
> played it just right:  let the morons scream and screech, get the 
> country annoyed with the shrill jerks, then engage.

Is that what was on his mind during those fundraisers while his FEMA 
was turning
away water trucks and volunteer boat rescuers, and on and on?

Hope you can see how that is a really bad picture you have painted of the
president you support.  You say his strategy was to wait and let people 
die, so
the people would get annoyed with screaming lefties, then he could engage and
save the day.

You identify a much higher order of politicizing than any I or others have
attempted to demonstrate.

  that the
> centrist Democrats held their fire and stayed largely silent 
> impressed me.  maybe they do know what's up.
>

Blanco is a centrist Dem.  Nagin was a Republican before switching parties, a
proud Louisiana tradition.  Who are you going to blame among a pool of 
centrist
Dems, a divinely-inspired President and his staff, and former 
Republicans?  You
sure you want to shoot in that barrel?

> also, for Morris:  the National Geographic ran a "prophetic" story 
> about the levees last year: very informative.  There was an 
> eye-witness interviewed who said he saw 2 empty grain barges smash 
> into the 17th street levee, crumbling it, which flooded New Orleans.  
> dunno if his story will be confirmed in the months of investigation 
> ahead.

You must be kidding.  I heard from this person down the street that he
interviewed his aunt's former nanny who said that she saw Bush dynamite the
thing.

Trond E. Jacobsen

Since I don't do golf, my preferred aristocratic sport is tennis.  If you have
ever enjoyed tennis in any way, do yourself a favor and catch Federer 
while you
can.  Truly inspirational play.  I've pretty closely followed tennis, 
excepting
the early to mid 1990's, since Borg started his run.  Over that time there is
no one who is his equal, and that includes McEnroe is his brief period of
brilliance.  Perhaps an analogy can amplify my observations.  Right now 
Federer
is more dominant in men's tennis than Lance has been in cycling or 
Jordan was in
basketball.




From delliott  Mon Sep  5 16:44:49 2005
From: delliott (Darren Elliott)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:44:49 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Vanderbilt: Where are people staying?
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.1.20050905164308.01e1aec0@kckcc.toto.net>

Anyone going to the Vanderbilt tournament who has a heads up on a good 
place to stay let me know.  The tournament hotel is booked and having not 
been before I am wondering which alternate hotels are nice and close to 
campus.  Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chief

Darren Elliott
Director of Debate
KCKCC




From kkuswa  Mon Sep  5 17:05:36 2005
From: kkuswa (Kuswa, Kevin)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:05:36 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] seeking judging for liberty tournament
Message-ID: <12E81F39195C00468C4DE42509951D3804BCC87D@castor.richmond.edu>

Richmond is in need of judging at the Liberty Tournament (Oct 7,8,9).  We pay well--contact me if interested--we can talk housing and transpo if necessary.
 
kevin
urichmond




From marty002  Mon Sep  5 20:17:53 2005
From: marty002 (Jillian Alejandria Marty)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 20:17:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [eDebate] 8 rounds available for GSU
Message-ID: <2824772.1125969473152.JavaMail.marty002@bama.ua.edu>

Hey you need rounds, I have 8. 
Back channel if your school is in need. 
Jillian 
University of Alabama




From privethedge  Tue Sep  6 07:55:29 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 05:55:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] More Info for those effected by Katrina as far as School Goes
Message-ID: <20050906125529.55194.qmail@web50914.mail.yahoo.com>

Department of Education Electronic AnnouncementFederal Student Aid Programs ? Hurricane Katrina ? Transfers, Deadline Extensions, and Other Guidance


Publication Date: September 2, 2005 
Author: Sally L. Stroup, Assistant Secretary for Postsecondary Education 
Subject: Federal Student Aid Programs ? Hurricane Katrina ? Transfers, Deadline Extensions, and Other Guidance 
Over the next several days we will issue a series of communications providing guidance to assist students and postsecondary educational institutions, in recognition of the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina. We are aware that many applicants, students, and borrowers have been impacted by the hurricane, as well as institutions and other program participants. Last year, we published guidance in a Dear Colleague Letter which, until otherwise modified, can be relied upon for this current natural disaster. The letter (GEN-04-04) is available on IFAP at http://www.ifap.ed.gov/dpcletters/GEN0404.html. 
Transfer Students: 
Regular student enrollment ? We encourage institutions (receiving institutions) to enroll students who have been impacted by the hurricane as regular students (i.e., enrolled for the purpose of obtaining a degree, certificate or other recognized educational credential offered by that institution), even if information that would normally be needed for an admissions decision is not immediately available. If the receiving institution waives admissions requirements that it would normally impose, it should include an explanation of that action in the student?s file. 
Non-regular student enrollment ? Some receiving institutions have expressed concern that, for various operational and timing reasons, they may not be able to admit as regular students, students who had planned on enrolling at an impacted institution. An impacted institution is an institution whose operations have been significantly impaired by the hurricane. Instead, they may be permitting these students to enroll in a non-matriculated status (transient, visitor, etc.). Since only regular students are eligible to receive funds under the Title IV, Federal student aid programs, we have been asked if any accommodation can be made for students in this situation. 
In those limited instances where a receiving institution is unable to enroll a student from an impacted institution as a regular student, it may provide the student with Title IV, Federal student aid program funds after the student has signed a certification that he or she was enrolled in a degree, certificate, or other credential program at a specifically identified eligible institution that has been impacted by Hurricane Katrina. This authority is limited to any academic terms or payment periods that begin prior to January 1, 2006. The certification should include a clear statement that the claim by the student is true and accurate and that the statement may be reviewed. 
Suggested wording for this statement is ? I certify that I was admitted to or enrolled in an academic program leading to a degree, certificate or other recognized educational credential for the 2005-2006 academic year at (Name of Institution) _________________________________________________ and am unable to attend that institution due to the effects of Hurricane Katrina. I also certify that this information is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge and that I understand that it is subject to review by the United States Department of Education. 
Printed or Typed Name ____________________________________________ 
Signature _________________________________ Date ______________ 
The receiving institution must maintain a copy of the certification and must make a good faith determination that the coursework to be taken by the student would likely be accepted at the home institution. 
ISIRs, Awarding, and Payments: 
When awarding aid to students who had planned on attending an impacted institution, the receiving institution must use its own ISIR or SAR records and its own budgets, definitions, and packaging policies. All loan certifications and originations, and disbursements must be made under the name and number of the receiving institution. 
In some cases the new institution may not have received an ISIR from the CPS, since the student did not include that institution when the FAFSA was submitted. The new institution can be added to the CPS record in a number of ways ? 
   The student can go on-line to www.fafsa.ed.gov and, using an FSA PIN, add the new institution to the record. 
   The student can call 1-800-4FEDAID (1-800-433-3243) and provide his or her name, social security number, date of birth, and either the DRN or the name of at least one institution currently listed on the CPS record, so that the customer service representative can add the institution to the student?s record. 
   The student can add the new institution using Part 2 of a paper SAR and mailing it to the address provided. 
   If the student presents his or her DRN (printed on the SAR) to the receiving institution, it can use FAA Access to add itself (or another institution) to the record. 
   If the student presents his or her DRN (printed on the SAR) to the receiving institution, it can call 1-800-4FEDAID (1-800-433-3243) and provide the student?s name, social security number, date of birth, and DRN so that the customer service representative can add the institution to the student?s record.
In all instances, the receiving institution will be added to the CPS record and an ISIR will be generated and sent to the receiving institution within 24 to 72 hours. 
While it is likely that some of the students may have had Title IV, Federal student aid program funds disbursed to them from the impacted institution, determining if and how much aid may have been disbursed is probably not possible at this time. While there may be a few exceptions, in most cases any funds that had been disbursed would not represent more than one-half of the student?s eligibility at the former institution. Therefore, institutions are encouraged to calculate their awards and to disburse the first portion of those awards as soon as possible. Within a few weeks, and before most second disbursements are scheduled to be made, we will assess the situation and advise program participants of a simplified process to determine if and how much of the earlier disbursements needs to be considered before the receiving institution makes its second disbursements. 
Deadlines: 
We intend to publish in the Federal Register a notice extending to December 1, 2005, certain published deadline dates for submission of information and reports by impacted institutions. We also intend to extend previously published deadlines for application (FAFSA) corrections by students and institutions, receipt of SARs and ISIRs by institutions, and submission of verification documents to institutions by students. 
We thank all of our Title IV program participants for their patience, cooperation, and understanding as, together, we do our part to assist those impacted by the terrible results of Hurricane Katrina. 

Posted September 2, 2005 on www.NASFAA.org, the Web Site of the 
National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators (NASFAA). 



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050906/b8778a0e/attachment.htm 


From Mikedavis13  Tue Sep  6 09:32:13 2005
From: Mikedavis13 (Mikedavis13 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:32:13 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] Bama tournament online
Message-ID: <6.4c9446f8.304f026d@aol.com>


The Alabama tournament is now listed at debateresults.com - Enter early and  
often.
 
Let me know if you have any questions,
 
Mike
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050906/091e5616/attachment.html 


From jwpatt00  Tue Sep  6 09:12:28 2005
From: jwpatt00 (JW Patterson)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:12:28 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] TOC Qualifying Tournaments -- 2006
Message-ID: <BF431C0C.178E9%jwpatt00@uky.edu>

> Following is the definitive list of the qualifying tournaments for the 2006
> TOC.  No Changes in qualifying tournaments will be made until May of 006.

> NOTE:  DIRECTORS OF QUARTER FINAL AND SEMI FINAL TOURNAMENTS.  ALL OF THESE
TOURNAMENTS WILL BE REVIEWED IN MAY 2006.  ONLY, AND ONLY THOSE, DIRECTORS WHO
SEND US THE LIST OF PARTICIPANTS AND THE ELIMINATION ROUND BRACKET WILL BE
CONSIDERED FOR THE 2007 TOC.

>                   THE ROAD TO THE FORTY-FIFTH KENTUCKY TOC
> 
>                       DATES: SATURDAY, SUNDAY, MONDAY
>                        APRIL 29, 30 AND MAY 1, 2006
>    
> IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS FOR TOC 2006
> 
> 1.  The TOC, Tournament Director  will no longer have any hired judges
> available.  SCHOOLS MUST SUPPLY THEIR OWN JUDGES.  If the person supplied is
> not a full time teacher of a school. the applicant may be required to submit
> the qualifications of the designated judge to the Tournament Director.  While
> no hired judges will be available, the TOC Director will refer people who wish
> to judge to those who desire to hire judges.  All such arrangements will be
> between the designated school and the person wishing to be hired.
>  
> 2.  In both policy and LD, tournaments designated as a quarter-final or
> octa-final qualifer must have at least six preliminary rounds; otherwise, the
> bid drops to the semi-finals level.
> 
> 3.  If a school has not submitted judging philosophies for all of its judges
> by 7 days before the TOC, that school will not be offered a preference and
> strike sheet for the TOC.
> 
> 4.  A team or an LD debater must win at least one elimination round to be
> eligible for a "ghost bid."  For example, if a tournament breaks at the
> double-octos level and is a TOC qualifier at the octos level, if two people or
> teams from the same school meet in the octos round, a ghost bid would be
> awarded.  If a tournament breaks at the octos level and is a TOC qualifier at
> the quarters level, if two people or teams from the same school meet in the
> quarters, a ghost bid would be awarded. On the other hand, if a tournament
> breaks to the octafinals and  people from the same school meet in the octos, a
> ghost bid would not be awarded.  In this case, since there was no double
> octos, the people meeting would not have won an out round and would not
> eligible for a ghost bid.
> 
> 5.  In team debate, you must have two qualifiers as a team to qualify for the
> TOC.  If a team does not have two quals AS A TEAM, then it should submit for
> an at-large bid. 
> 
> 6. Tournament Directors must submit complete result sheets on or before March
> 1st, 2006. This includes the debaters full names, their schools, and states.
> 
> 
> L-D OCTAFINAL qualifiers for 2005-2006:
>   
>  Barkley Forum at Emory University (GA)
>  The Glenbrooks (IL)
>  Greenhill School (TX)
>  Harvard University (MA)
>  St. Marks School (TX)
>  University of California at Berkeley
>  Apple Valley (MN)
>    
>  L-D QUARTERFINAL qualifiers for 2005-2006:
>   
>  Blake School (MN)
>  Crestian Classic (FL)
>  Florida Blue Key (FL)
>  Hendrick Hudson (NY)
>  Lexington (MA)  
>  Manchester-by-the-Sea (MA)
>  Mid-America Cup at Valley (IA)
>  Silver and Black Invitational at Alta HS (UT)
>  Stanford University Spring National (CA)
>  Wake Forest University (NC)
>  Yale University (CT)
>    
>  L-D SEMIFINAL qualifiers for 2005-2006:
>   
>  Archer's School For Girls (CA)
>  Auburn Senior High School (WA)
>  Grapevine (TX) 
>  Iowa Caucuses   
>  Isadore Newman (LA)
>  Monticello (NY) 
>  Newburgh Free Academy (NY)
>  Ohio Valley Invitational (KY)
>  Omaha-Westside (NE)
>  Princeton University (NJ)
>  University of Texas at Austin
>  Whitman College (WA)
>    
>  L-D FINAL ROUND qualifiers for 2005-2006:
>    
>  Arizona State University (AZ)
>  College Prep. (CA)
>  Colleyville-Heritage (TX)
>  Columbia University (NY)
>  Dowling (IA) 
>  Federal Way (WA)
>  Harker School (CA)
>  Homewood (AL)   
>  James Logan (CA)
>  Memorial-Houston (TX)
>  Nova (FL) 
>  Project PRIDE/Newark City Invit. (NJ)
>  St. James (AL) 
>  Vestavia Hills (AL)
>  Westchester Classic (NY)
>  Winston Churchill (TX)
> 
>   
>  POLICY OCTAFINAL qualifiers for 2005-2006:
>   
>  Barkley Forum at Emory University (GA)
>  The Glenbrooks (IL)
>  Greenhill School (TX)
>  Harvard University (MA)
>  Montgomery Bell Academy (TN)
>  St. Marks School (TX)
>  University of California at Berkeley
>          
>  POLICY QUARTERFINAL qualifiers for 2005-2006:
>   
>  Blake (MN)  
>  East Grand Rapids (MI)
>  Georgetown Day (DC)
>  Lexington (MA)  
>  New Trier (IL)  
>  Newburgh Free Academy (NY)
>  Ohio Valley Invitational (KY)
>  Stanford University Spring National (CA)
>  University of Michigan at Ann Arbor
>  University of Redlands (CA)
>  University of Southern California
>  University of Texas at Austin
>  Wake Forest University (NC)
>   
>  POLICY SEMIFINAL qualifiers for 2005-2006:
>          
>  Colleyville-Heritage (TX)
>  Dowling (IA) 
>  Grapevine (TX) 
>  Iowa Caucus at Cedar Rapids (IA)
>  Isadore Newman (LA)
>  Maine East (IL) 
>  Mid-America Cup at Valley (IA)
>  University of Georgia
>  Vestavia Hills (AL)
>   
>  POLICY FINAL ROUND qualifiers for 2005-2006:
>   
>  Arizona State University
>  Auburn Senior High School (WA)
>  Bronx High School of Science (NY)
>  Carrollton (GA) 
>  Florida Blue Key
>  Gonzaga (WA)   
>  Harker School (CA)
>  Long Beach (CA) 
>  Memorial-Houston (TX)
>  Omaha-Westside (Nebraska)
>  Samford University (AL)
>  Silver and Black Invitational at Alta HS (UT)
>  Watertown (SD) 
>  Westminster (GA)
>  Whitman College (WA)
> 
> Sincerely, 
> 
> J.W. Patterson 
> TOC Director and Founder







From debate  Tue Sep  6 09:51:47 2005
From: debate (debate at ou.edu)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:51:47 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] GSU Rooms - Need Help!
Message-ID: <e85502dc4310.431d66b3@ou.edu>

So I usually do a good job of reserving more rooms than I need.  At GSU, I have come up one room short.

The real problem is having three singles and no doubles.  If someone needs to release a room, I would like one.
If someone could trade a double for one of my singles, that would be awesome also.

Thanks,

Jackie





From tweiner1  Tue Sep  6 10:52:15 2005
From: tweiner1 (tweiner1 at gmu.edu)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:52:15 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] seeking judging for liberty tournament
In-Reply-To: <12E81F39195C00468C4DE42509951D3804BCC87D@castor.richmond.edu>
References: <12E81F39195C00468C4DE42509951D3804BCC87D@castor.richmond.edu>
Message-ID: <f5fed2863ea27.431d82ef@gmu.edu>

How well do you pay?

Jake

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kuswa, Kevin" <kkuswa at richmond.edu>
Date: Monday, September 5, 2005 6:05 pm
Subject: [eDebate] seeking judging for liberty tournament

> Richmond is in need of judging at the Liberty Tournament (Oct 
> 7,8,9).  We pay well--contact me if interested--we can talk 
> housing and transpo if necessary.
> 
> kevin
> urichmond
> 
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
> 




From Ceda2vp  Tue Sep  6 14:49:13 2005
From: Ceda2vp (Ceda2vp at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:49:13 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] New CEDA Website Unveiled, Alumni Association launched!!
Message-ID: <f7.582b45a1.304f4cb9@cs.com>

Greetings Directors;
 

It is my pleasure to announce the revamped CEDA website (www.cedadebate.org). 
  No we didn't arrange for one of our coaches to appear on a hot,new reality 
TV show (Gordon Stables did that on his own) or create order forms for 
DEBATERS GONE WILD: PART TWO (screenings planned for NCA).  We're starting out 
simpler. 

Thanks to Heather, Gordon, Ede, Kristen, Greg, Becky, Slusher, Ben and others 
for their useful feedback during the summer meeting and to TC for all of his 
hardwork to make these changes happen.  While the link to the Fort Hays Swiss 
Bank accounts are not operational as yet, we hope you are pleased with the 
results.  
Some of the highlights:

***         New "member-friendly" interface--Get clear and easy access to 
tournament information, governing documents, membership forms and links to 
critical pages like debateresults and the Executive Secretary. Send new, clueless 
programs there with pride.  

****        Alumni Page--We will begin collecting alumni association 
information (something which should have happened years ago) and enable all of our 
former members to stay up-to-date on the current world of debate.    We hope to 
sign up at least 100 alums in the first six months.  C'mon.  You know you 
wanted an excuse to stalk somebody under the "guise" of public service (that's 
right Frap, I'm talking to you).  Help us out!! 


*****      Advancement & Development Section-With resources to help you build 
and support your program, network with others in the field, connect with high 
school outreach activities and stay current on the world of debate.   In 
coming months, we will add Coaching Survival Kits and Strategies based on the work 
happening in the field.  


Please visit the site, let us know what you think and how you want to be 
involved.  If you are one of the 95% of coaches that is a former debater, fill out 
the alumni form pronto so we make our numbers.  

Welcome to CEDA 2005:  Be part of the solution or get out of the way.  

Peace & Justice,


Will Baker
CEDA President


___________________________________________________________________
Postings to this listserv shall not constitute official electronic 
communication by or for the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA).  Official 
electronic communications related to the business and objectives of the 
organization shall be conducted through its website, www.cedadebate.org and an approved 
moderated listserv.  CEDA, its agents, representatives and officers make no 
representation as to the accuracy of content, language, tone or other elements of 
posts to this listserv.  Any reliance by members, visitors or guests on the 
information provided through this list carries an assumption of risk.    
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050906/92627509/attachment.htm 


From rwgallow  Tue Sep  6 15:10:10 2005
From: rwgallow (Ryan Galloway)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:10:10 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Bronx Science Policy Debate Coach Announcement
Message-ID: <s31db167.087@gw3.samford.edu>

Attached is the listing for the position of policy debate coach at Bronx Science.  One of the debaters in my lab from the SDI asked my to post it.

The contact information is apparently incorrect you need to get in touch with Jon Cruz at joncruz1138 at gmail.com.

Thanks!

Ryan Galloway
Director of Debate
Samford University
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Ryan Galloway <rwlcgalloway at gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: hi! it's Lisa from your SDI lab.
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:58:33 -0500
Size: 10112
Url: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050906/8f590d25/attachment.mht 


From smithr  Tue Sep  6 16:38:36 2005
From: smithr (smithr)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:38:36 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Wake Forest Earlybird Sep. 16-18
Message-ID: <431E0C5C.5080700@wfu.edu>

We are hiring judges for all events.

Some entry slots are still available, too.

Sign up to participate or as a guest judge at Joyoftournaments.com




From slusher  Sun Sep  4 23:12:12 2005
From: slusher (Eric Slusher)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 00:12:12 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans korcok
Message-ID: <21D18A65-9230-41D8-B055-B5F8D9792BD1@gmail.com>

"only slime uses a natural disaster to advance their
politics. "

Good point.

Check out...

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050912/12whitehouse.htm

A reprint from the WaPo.  Be sure not to miss the quote from the  
"anonymous" white house staffer.

What about playing politics DURING a disaster?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/ 
2005/09/02/EDGLIEG9ST1.DTL

Or, are they only slime when it's the "liberal elite" (as your  
friends at Aruba News would say)
doing it?

"George Bush lost New Orleans!" - Pat Buchanan 9/2/2005

And here's Newt....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/ 
2005/09/02/EDGLIEG9ST1.DTL


You think only dems and the liberal elite (and by liberal elite I  
mean middle to low income recent college grads with blogs) are  
watching the daily tracking polls?

You think the Friday photo-op trip wasn't playing politics?

http://www.wonkette.com/politics/george-w-bush/index.php#bush-in- 
katrinaland-123801

(German TV catches them tearing down the aid stations after the  
photographers leave!)

Let me put it to you this way:  All you've got is DEFENSE.  It's sad  
really, to see your smart Republican friends having to defend this  
idiot.  (or is it imbecile?  Can't remember which is worse)  It's one  
thing to complain about playing politics and another to have to  
defend against it because you're down to you last line of defense.

It's over.  First 9-11 after repeated warnings.  Then Iraq on a pack  
of lies.  Now, after dedicating his presidency to protecting the  
homeland and breaking the budget to pay for the largest agency  
consolidation in the history of the government your guy gets an F on  
his first exam.

We're supposed to believe we're equipped to deal with a major  
terrorist attack after seeing this?

But that was the best reason they offered to vote for them!

The list of acceptable Republican candidates for president is looking  
better and better with each passing day.  Republicans and Democrats  
alike know its over.  The attacks are coming from all sides.  ANYONE  
is better than this moron.  You know that.  You can out wit, deride  
and brow beat all you want.  You're on your heels.  Don't blame the  
left.  Blame the idiot you're in the unfortunate position of having  
to defend.  It's time to pick a new case.

You can be a proud Republican without being tied to the anchor of  
Bush.  Nothing wrong with the former.  Idiotic to do the latter.   
History can be a very powerful judge.


George W. has lost his Oval Office privileges.

And that's the bottom line.

much love,

slusher


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050905/43a0eaba/attachment.htm 


From utdallasdebate  Wed Sep  7 01:52:53 2005
From: utdallasdebate (UTD Debate)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 01:52:53 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Seeking to hire judges at Wichita, Emporia
Message-ID: <BAY110-F4B555C5E0803FC4CCF614CAA60@phx.gbl>

Hi All,
We at UTD would like to buy out of a few rounds at the Wichita State and 
Emporia State tournaments. Four rounds per tournament would be ideal. Please 
contact us if you are interested in getting paid to judge for us.

Thank you,
Chris Burk
UTD

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From korryharvey  Wed Sep  7 02:40:30 2005
From: korryharvey (Korry Harvey)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 00:40:30 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] bashing bush on katrina response a bipartisan effort
Message-ID: <BAY103-F317065EF95B26A271C7AE3A3A60@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050907/0b152b72/attachment.html 


From privethedge  Wed Sep  7 06:44:43 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 04:44:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] ans korcok
In-Reply-To: <21D18A65-9230-41D8-B055-B5F8D9792BD1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050907114443.20420.qmail@web50909.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm not saying that Bush was right or wrong in the response to Katrina, more wrong than right, I think. However, there is ample evidence that New Orleans officials didn't follow their own disaster evac plan in the days before Katrina even got to New Orleans. The plan calls for evacs starting four days before the storm strikes, it called for the city to use ALL municipal transport - city buses, school buses, etc. It'spretty clear from the nice, neat rows of parked school bus roofs that they didn't even do that. There's a lot of blame to go around in this situation - and not all of it should go to Bush, if you are being fair. THere's ample evidence that the Govenor delayed her declaration of disaster, and that people were begging her to call out the Guard and she took her time. Nobody, Bush, the Govenor, the FEMA head, the Mayor, comes out of this without blame. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050907/2bf978fd/attachment.htm 


From jwpatt00  Wed Sep  7 09:20:28 2005
From: jwpatt00 (JW Patterson)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:20:28 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Henry Clay Update Number 3
Message-ID: <BF446F6C.17BA0%jwpatt00@uky.edu>

PLEASE CHECK THE UPDATED LIST BELOW.

REMEMBER TO MAKE YOUR HOTEL RESERVATIONS.  ONCE AGAIN, THE HENRY CLAY IS
COMPETING WITH THE OPENING OF THE KEENLAND RACE TRACK AS WELL AS A HOME
FOOTBALL GAME.  EVEN THOUGH KENTUCKY ALMOST ALWAYS LOSES ITS FOOTBALL GAMES,
67,000 HOPEFUL FANS STILL ATTEND.

NO HIRED JUDGES AVAILABLE
UNFORTUNATELY, THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY CANNOT PROVIDE HIRED JUDGES.  EACH
SCHOOL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN JUDGING OBLIGATIONS.

                        UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY

                           HENRY CLAY DEBATES
                PRE-SEASON NOVICE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

                       October 8th, 9th, and 10th
                        (Saturday, Sunday, Monday)

TOURNAMENT HOTEL:  RAMADA INN, 859-299-1261 EXT 158
                   [ ALL ROOMS HAVE WIRELESS INTERNET ]

HENRY CLAY ENTRIES:

*Indicates eligibility for the Pre-Season Novice National Championships

AUGUSTANA COLLEGE

    1.  Jason Bantle and John Siadak
    2.  Amber Dismer and Becca Richardson
    3.  Brian Honeyman and Amanda Freel

    JUDGES
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

BERKELEY, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT

    1.  Nick Lin and Reid Shannon
    2.  Craig Wickersham and Michael Burshteyn
    3.  Josh Garen and Daniel Richards

    JUDGES
    1.  Dave Arnette
    2.  Greg Achten

BOSTON COLLEGE

    1.  Mandy Castle & Allen Best

    JUDGES:
    1.  Patrick Waldinger

CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY

    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA
    3.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

GEORGE WASHINGTON

    1.  Brian Linder and Brett Walace

    JUDGE
    1.  Jacob Weigler

GEORGIA, UNIVERSITY OF

    1. Brent Culpepper/Kevin Rabinowitz
    2. Spencer Diamond/Todd Mitchell
    3. Adam Schmidt/Adam Grellinger
    4. Andrew Hart/Shivan Bhatt
    5. Duncan Meisel/Roi Ceren *

    JUDGES
    1. Jarrod Atchison
    2. Chris McIntosh
    3. Eric Jenkins

GONZAGA UNIVERSITY

    1. Nick Bormann/Charlie Hutchison
    2. Ben Dodds/Jon Williamson
    3. TBA
    4. TBA

    JUDGES
    1. Glen Frappier (4 Rounds)
    2. Sam Maurer (4 Rounds)
    3. TBA
    
KANSAS

    1. Simonsen/Cormack
    2. Lathrop/Bricker
    3. Jennings/Johnson
    4. Wright/TBA

    JUDGES
    1. TBA

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

    1.  Mellisa Hurter / Lindsey Hoban
    2.  Amanda Costa / Glen Koch

    JUDGES
    1.  Hays Watson

LOUISVILLE, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Arayfael Guillement / Stacey Bradley
    2.  Sherah Isarael / Caress Russell
    3.  Paul Meinshausen / Saheter Cook
    4.  Deven Cooper / Shauntrice Martin

    JUDGES
    David Peterson -8
    Hire for 8

MARY WASHINGTON, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Clint Woods and Nick Ryan
    2.  Leslie Wyatt and Sean Jansen

    JUDGES
    1.  Heather Barnes

MIAMI (OH) UNIVERSIITY
    1.  Mike Jensen and Mike Richardson
    2.  Matt Kern and Stephen Solomon
    3.  Jon Gair and Aaron Vinson
    4.  Mike Maffie and TBA
    5.  Ilya Galperin and TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  Jim Cherney - 6
    2.  Lincoln Bisbee - 3
    3.  Ben Voth - 2
    4.  Steve Mancuso - 3
    5.  Erika Thomas - 6

MICHIGAN, UNIVERSITY OF
    
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA
    3.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  Joshua Hoe
    2.  Scotty Gottbrecht
    3.  Aaron Kall

MISSOURI STATE UNIVERSITY
    1.  Matthias Bostick / Michael Mapes
    2.  Mike Kearney / Martin Osborn
    3.  Jessica Johnson / Clay Webb
    4.  Caleb Messer / Sheena Walters
    5.  Blake Moore / Laci Whiteaker
 
    Judges
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

NORTH TEXAS, UNIVERSITY OF
    
    1. Max Archer and Ben Patterson
    2. Kuntal Cholera and Rachel Schy

    JUDGES
    1. Calum Matheson
    2. Brian Lain

OKLAHOMA, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Conor Cleary and Blake Johnson

    JUDGES
    1.  Jason Russell

REDLANDS, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  TBA

RICHMOND, UNIVERSITY OF

    1. Nehal Shah & Ryan Smith
    2. Jonathan Ward & Liz Lauzon

    JUDGES
    1. Adrienne Brovero (4)
    2. Piero Mannino (4)

SAMFORD UNIVERSITY

    1. Chad Macumber & Erin Ramsey*
    2. Clark Bowers & Ashley Streat
    3. Nick Agnello & John Wilkerson

    JUDGES
    1.  Ben Coulter (6)
    2.  Ryan Galloway (6)

TEXAS, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Chris Thiele and Jenny Davis
    2.  Spencer Johnson and Benjamin Durham
    3.  Nick Scott and Alex Savage
    4.  Reid Jones and Jonathan Lewis *

    JUDGES
    1.  Varant Yegparian
    2.  Jonah Feldman

WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY

    1.  Jamie Carroll and Brad Hall
    2.  Elizabeth Gedmark and Chris Sedelmyer
    3.  J.T. Kittrell and John Patten
    4.  TBA
    5.  TBA
    6.  TBA
    7.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  Ross Smith
    2.  J.P. Lacy
    3.  TBA
    4.  TBA
    5.  TBA
    6.  TBA

WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY

    1.  Matt Farmer and Gabe Murillo
    2.  Frank Esposito and Andy Timmons
    3.  Jen Schraeder and Mike Markovic
    4.  Joe Battocletti and Dave Rancilio
    5.  Jason Pearsall and Dustin Greenwalt
    6.  Bonnie Newill and Sydney Pasquinelli

    JUDGES:
    1.  Neal Butts (6)
    2.  Donny Peters (6)
    3.  Kelly Young (6)

WEBER STATE UNIVERSITY

    1. Ryan Cheek/Aaron Dekeyzer
    2. Joshua Eams/ Tricy Taylor

    JUDGES:
    1. Richard Tews (8 rounds for Weber State)
    2. Omar Guevara (8 rounds for Berkeley)
    3. Veronica Guevara (8 rounds for Gonzaga)
    4. Adam Cosper (8 rounds for hire)

WHITMAN COLLEGE
    1.  eric suni and matt schissler
    2.  jeff buntin and ben meiches
    3.  ross richendrfer and andrew stokes

    JUDGES
    1.  aaron hardy (1/2 commitment)
    2.  gaurav reddy (full commitment)

WYOMING, UNIVERSITY OF
    1. Chris Crowe and Brian DeLong
    2. Travis Cram and Aaron Lyttle
    3. Will Jensen and Josh Schmerge
    4. Danielle Jensen and Jess Ryan
    5. Rebecca Fisher and Brittany Parsons

    Judges:
    1. Eric Forslund (6 rounds)
    2. Seth Ellsworth (6 rounds)
    3. Veronica Guevara (8 rounds)








From stannardmatt  Wed Sep  7 10:12:00 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:12:00 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] Henry Clay Update Number 3
In-Reply-To: <BF446F6C.17BA0%jwpatt00@uky.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F19AB38906EFEFE2D735604D2A60@phx.gbl>

Veronica Guevara will be judging eight rounds for Wyoming, not Gonzaga.

matt stannard


>From: JW Patterson <jwpatt00 at uky.edu>
>To: Policy <edebate at ndtceda.com>, Gary Larson <Gary.N.Larson at wheaton.edu>,  
>  Linda Barker <llbark0 at pop.uky.edu>
>Subject: [eDebate] Henry Clay Update Number 3
>Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:20:28 -0400
>
>PLEASE CHECK THE UPDATED LIST BELOW.
>
>REMEMBER TO MAKE YOUR HOTEL RESERVATIONS.  ONCE AGAIN, THE HENRY CLAY IS
>COMPETING WITH THE OPENING OF THE KEENLAND RACE TRACK AS WELL AS A HOME
>FOOTBALL GAME.  EVEN THOUGH KENTUCKY ALMOST ALWAYS LOSES ITS FOOTBALL 
>GAMES,
>67,000 HOPEFUL FANS STILL ATTEND.
>
>NO HIRED JUDGES AVAILABLE
>UNFORTUNATELY, THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY CANNOT PROVIDE HIRED JUDGES.  
>EACH
>SCHOOL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN JUDGING OBLIGATIONS.
>
>                         UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
>
>                            HENRY CLAY DEBATES
>                 PRE-SEASON NOVICE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP
>
>                        October 8th, 9th, and 10th
>                         (Saturday, Sunday, Monday)
>
>TOURNAMENT HOTEL:  RAMADA INN, 859-299-1261 EXT 158
>                    [ ALL ROOMS HAVE WIRELESS INTERNET ]
>
>HENRY CLAY ENTRIES:
>
>*Indicates eligibility for the Pre-Season Novice National Championships
>
>AUGUSTANA COLLEGE
>
>     1.  Jason Bantle and John Siadak
>     2.  Amber Dismer and Becca Richardson
>     3.  Brian Honeyman and Amanda Freel
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  TBA
>     2.  TBA
>
>BERKELEY, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT
>
>     1.  Nick Lin and Reid Shannon
>     2.  Craig Wickersham and Michael Burshteyn
>     3.  Josh Garen and Daniel Richards
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  Dave Arnette
>     2.  Greg Achten
>
>BOSTON COLLEGE
>
>     1.  Mandy Castle & Allen Best
>
>     JUDGES:
>     1.  Patrick Waldinger
>
>CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY
>
>     1.  TBA
>     2.  TBA
>     3.  TBA
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  TBA
>     2.  TBA
>
>GEORGE WASHINGTON
>
>     1.  Brian Linder and Brett Walace
>
>     JUDGE
>     1.  Jacob Weigler
>
>GEORGIA, UNIVERSITY OF
>
>     1. Brent Culpepper/Kevin Rabinowitz
>     2. Spencer Diamond/Todd Mitchell
>     3. Adam Schmidt/Adam Grellinger
>     4. Andrew Hart/Shivan Bhatt
>     5. Duncan Meisel/Roi Ceren *
>
>     JUDGES
>     1. Jarrod Atchison
>     2. Chris McIntosh
>     3. Eric Jenkins
>
>GONZAGA UNIVERSITY
>
>     1. Nick Bormann/Charlie Hutchison
>     2. Ben Dodds/Jon Williamson
>     3. TBA
>     4. TBA
>
>     JUDGES
>     1. Glen Frappier (4 Rounds)
>     2. Sam Maurer (4 Rounds)
>     3. TBA
>
>KANSAS
>
>     1. Simonsen/Cormack
>     2. Lathrop/Bricker
>     3. Jennings/Johnson
>     4. Wright/TBA
>
>     JUDGES
>     1. TBA
>
>LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
>
>     1.  Mellisa Hurter / Lindsey Hoban
>     2.  Amanda Costa / Glen Koch
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  Hays Watson
>
>LOUISVILLE, UNIVERSITY OF
>
>     1.  Arayfael Guillement / Stacey Bradley
>     2.  Sherah Isarael / Caress Russell
>     3.  Paul Meinshausen / Saheter Cook
>     4.  Deven Cooper / Shauntrice Martin
>
>     JUDGES
>     David Peterson -8
>     Hire for 8
>
>MARY WASHINGTON, UNIVERSITY OF
>
>     1.  Clint Woods and Nick Ryan
>     2.  Leslie Wyatt and Sean Jansen
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  Heather Barnes
>
>MIAMI (OH) UNIVERSIITY
>     1.  Mike Jensen and Mike Richardson
>     2.  Matt Kern and Stephen Solomon
>     3.  Jon Gair and Aaron Vinson
>     4.  Mike Maffie and TBA
>     5.  Ilya Galperin and TBA
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  Jim Cherney - 6
>     2.  Lincoln Bisbee - 3
>     3.  Ben Voth - 2
>     4.  Steve Mancuso - 3
>     5.  Erika Thomas - 6
>
>MICHIGAN, UNIVERSITY OF
>
>     1.  TBA
>     2.  TBA
>     3.  TBA
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  Joshua Hoe
>     2.  Scotty Gottbrecht
>     3.  Aaron Kall
>
>MISSOURI STATE UNIVERSITY
>     1.  Matthias Bostick / Michael Mapes
>     2.  Mike Kearney / Martin Osborn
>     3.  Jessica Johnson / Clay Webb
>     4.  Caleb Messer / Sheena Walters
>     5.  Blake Moore / Laci Whiteaker
>
>     Judges
>     1.  TBA
>     2.  TBA
>
>NORTH TEXAS, UNIVERSITY OF
>
>     1. Max Archer and Ben Patterson
>     2. Kuntal Cholera and Rachel Schy
>
>     JUDGES
>     1. Calum Matheson
>     2. Brian Lain
>
>OKLAHOMA, UNIVERSITY OF
>
>     1.  Conor Cleary and Blake Johnson
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  Jason Russell
>
>REDLANDS, UNIVERSITY OF
>
>     1.  TBA
>     2.  TBA
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  TBA
>
>RICHMOND, UNIVERSITY OF
>
>     1. Nehal Shah & Ryan Smith
>     2. Jonathan Ward & Liz Lauzon
>
>     JUDGES
>     1. Adrienne Brovero (4)
>     2. Piero Mannino (4)
>
>SAMFORD UNIVERSITY
>
>     1. Chad Macumber & Erin Ramsey*
>     2. Clark Bowers & Ashley Streat
>     3. Nick Agnello & John Wilkerson
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  Ben Coulter (6)
>     2.  Ryan Galloway (6)
>
>TEXAS, UNIVERSITY OF
>
>     1.  Chris Thiele and Jenny Davis
>     2.  Spencer Johnson and Benjamin Durham
>     3.  Nick Scott and Alex Savage
>     4.  Reid Jones and Jonathan Lewis *
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  Varant Yegparian
>     2.  Jonah Feldman
>
>WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY
>
>     1.  Jamie Carroll and Brad Hall
>     2.  Elizabeth Gedmark and Chris Sedelmyer
>     3.  J.T. Kittrell and John Patten
>     4.  TBA
>     5.  TBA
>     6.  TBA
>     7.  TBA
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  Ross Smith
>     2.  J.P. Lacy
>     3.  TBA
>     4.  TBA
>     5.  TBA
>     6.  TBA
>
>WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY
>
>     1.  Matt Farmer and Gabe Murillo
>     2.  Frank Esposito and Andy Timmons
>     3.  Jen Schraeder and Mike Markovic
>     4.  Joe Battocletti and Dave Rancilio
>     5.  Jason Pearsall and Dustin Greenwalt
>     6.  Bonnie Newill and Sydney Pasquinelli
>
>     JUDGES:
>     1.  Neal Butts (6)
>     2.  Donny Peters (6)
>     3.  Kelly Young (6)
>
>WEBER STATE UNIVERSITY
>
>     1. Ryan Cheek/Aaron Dekeyzer
>     2. Joshua Eams/ Tricy Taylor
>
>     JUDGES:
>     1. Richard Tews (8 rounds for Weber State)
>     2. Omar Guevara (8 rounds for Berkeley)
>     3. Veronica Guevara (8 rounds for Gonzaga)
>     4. Adam Cosper (8 rounds for hire)
>
>WHITMAN COLLEGE
>     1.  eric suni and matt schissler
>     2.  jeff buntin and ben meiches
>     3.  ross richendrfer and andrew stokes
>
>     JUDGES
>     1.  aaron hardy (1/2 commitment)
>     2.  gaurav reddy (full commitment)
>
>WYOMING, UNIVERSITY OF
>     1. Chris Crowe and Brian DeLong
>     2. Travis Cram and Aaron Lyttle
>     3. Will Jensen and Josh Schmerge
>     4. Danielle Jensen and Jess Ryan
>     5. Rebecca Fisher and Brittany Parsons
>
>     Judges:
>     1. Eric Forslund (6 rounds)
>     2. Seth Ellsworth (6 rounds)
>     3. Veronica Guevara (8 rounds)
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>eDebate mailing list
>eDebate at ndtceda.com
>To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
>http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate





From stannardmatt  Wed Sep  7 10:34:23 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:34:23 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] Henry Clay Update Number 3
In-Reply-To: <BF446F6C.17BA0%jwpatt00@uky.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F22FD130B00171C52CC22D5D2A60@phx.gbl>

Sorry, I did not mean for that to go to the entire list, but yeah, that's 
what's going on.  Hey, how's it going everybody...(embarassed grin)...

mjs





From blackdebateguy  Wed Sep  7 11:59:11 2005
From: blackdebateguy (doug dennis)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] michael klinger or jusr delete
Message-ID: <20050907165911.76660.qmail@web50203.mail.yahoo.com>

a black man is looking for you. email him back.

		
---------------------------------
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050907/c5b0ee0b/attachment.html 


From joepatrice  Wed Sep  7 13:22:14 2005
From: joepatrice (Joe Patrice)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:22:14 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] bashing bush on katrina response a bipartisan effort
Message-ID: <f7194f2d050907112252e8ec3a@mail.gmail.com>

Just to update the story in Korry's post, Trent Lott and Newt Gingrich
are also bashing Bush publicly now.  You can probably just google
those stories.  Kind of an interesting to read about how their ability
to play nice for the sake of partisanship has finally stopped.




From bgaston76  Wed Sep  7 14:39:53 2005
From: bgaston76 (Bryan Gaston)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:39:53 -0800
Subject: [eDebate] Brian Petterson or someone that knows his email....
Message-ID: <20050907193953.22C363384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com>

BP could you email me, or someone could you give me his email address.  Thanks,

W. Bryan Gaston
Heritage Hall School
Director of Debate
1800 NW 122nd
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
73120-9598
Office Phone: 405-740-3030
Home Phone: 405-609-0311
Cell Phone: 405-210-3888
www.heritagehall.com




-- 
_______________________________________________

Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number.  -Lycos Yellow Pages

http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10




From kenedebate  Wed Sep  7 15:22:41 2005
From: kenedebate (Ken DeLaughder)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:22:41 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] ESU tournament reminder.
Message-ID: <BAY102-F1115F073FA9F25C53F8111D9A60@phx.gbl>

PLEASE make sure you enter soon, once the block is closed, those rooms will 
be snapped up.  Please please please reserve yoru rooms soon.  We also need 
you to enter at debateresults.com because we are going to hold a banquet on 
Saturday, and we need to start getting a body count (ESPECIALLY 
VEGANS/VEGETARIANS) so we can talk to catering.

Full invite at the Brushke site.

AND.....

First come first serve on the suites in the block.  There are 7 of them.  
Please only take them if you need them :)  call now!  The block closes Sept 
23rd (this is a shift for them, if you have problems let me know)

-----------------------------------------

Dear Community,

On behalf of Emporia State University, the Department of Communication and 
Theatre, and Hornet Debate I would like to invite you to the George R. 
Pflaum Debate Tournament in Emporia, KS.  This is our 50th Anniversary of 
the Pflaum, and we promise our usual hospitality, great awards, and a dinner 
with some old friends.  The tournament will be held Oct 15-17, 2005 with 
Registration at the tournament hotel, Holiday Inn Express,  on October 14th.

We are pleased to be offering 6 rounds of debate in Open, Junior Varisty and 
novice divisions.  We know many prefer an 8 round format, however, we belive 
that a 6 round format encourages wellness (and sleep).  Final round schedule 
will depend on entries and facilities.  We will make every effort to keep 
divisions separate, but again, are entry dependent, a final schedule will 
follow closer to the tournament date.

We believe we offer a fine slate of competition in the Midwest tradition, as 
well as great hospitality, as some of you who have been here before can 
attest. We will continue that hospitality and then some.

We do have one concern and that is hotel space.  Emporia has
become a favorite for regional soccer meets and just such one is happening 
on the chosen weekend, all month actually.  Therefore hotel space is at a 
premium.  I hope everyone takes advantage of this opportunity to grab hotel 
rooms early. Please make sure that you make your reservations by September 
17th at the latest.

We do hope you will join us here in October to help celebrate our 
tournament.  Much success.

Sincerely,

Kenneth DeLaughder
Director of Debate
delaughk at emporia.edu
(620) 341-5705 office
(620) 481-0421 cell

James Taylor
Assistant Director of Debate

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From mmk_savant  Wed Sep  7 18:23:37 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:23:37 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans Slusher
Message-ID: <BAY101-F40550D775A87EE5EE4AFCE4A60@phx.gbl>

he types: "much love,  slusher"

i respond:  i am not feeling the love.  talk is cheap.  give up the love.


he types:  "only slime uses a natural disaster to advance their politics. "  
Good point.

i respond: i made an even better point in response to your previous post 
when i ALSO wrote: "by then he had been criticicized by every pinko op-ed 
clown and screecher in the country.  assault is a crime but i don't begrudge 
anyone who throws knuckles in self-defense."

in fact, mister short-attention-span, that was pretty much the GIST of my 
answer to your previous post claiming that Bush was also playing politics.

what elephant sitting in the china shop of your mind?
ELEFUCKINPHANT ----> if Bush is just defending himself, you don't get to 
charge him with using the natural disaster to advance his politics... <---- 
ELEFUCKINPHANT


he types:  "Check out...
( http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050912/12whitehouse.htm )

i respond:  wow what an article!  the greatest ever!  i laughed. i cried.  i 
cheered.
thank you so much Eric Slusher for bringing that text to my attention.  i 
might well have missed it except for the love you showed by taking me to 
that mountain of insight.

it says that the White House is trying to change a general perception that 
they flubbed it.  is that supposed to show that they tried to use Katrina to 
advance their politics?  OH NO IT IZN'T!!!!  THAT is your evidence?  i have 
novices that could do better than that mr. hiredgunresearcherstud.

also, TURN.  the article makes CLEAR my only response, written in dark dark 
pixels, that the White House is DEFENDING against those using the disaster 
to advance their politics:

"Anger over what appeared to be a slow federal response to the disaster 
wreaked by Hurricane Katrina had brought virulent criticism from local 
officials--and from Democrats everywhere--and Bush's own evaluation at 
week's end that the federal effort was "not acceptable" didn't help.


he types:  "What about playing politics DURING a disaster?
( http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/ 
2005/09/02/EDGLIEG9ST1.DTL )

i respond:  i don't know if it is just that my computer is incapable of 
displaying drivel or if i actually have to subscribe to it... but all i get 
at that URL is an offer for 50% off for home delivery of the San Francisco 
Chronicle.  and of course i would never subscribe to that ragged-ass 
embarassment of journalism.  so i have no idea what you wanted to prove 
other than that you are a consumer of filth produced by tree-murdering 
ex-hippies.  your mother must be proud.


he types:  "Or, are they only slime when it's the "liberal elite" (as your 
friends at Aruba News would say) doing it?"

i respond:  DAMMIT!  this is driving me nuts.  I AM THE MASTER OF OBSCURE 
REFERENCES.  what the hell is Aruba News?

oh!  i get it!  you are taking a sexist jibe at Greta Van Susteren's 
extensive coverage of the Natalee Holloway disappearance/murder?  is the 
only news that's fit to print "man-news"?  are the news topics that strong, 
intelligent, well-educated women cover unworthy of your phallo-centric 
conception of "real" news?  i think it would be wise if you just kept your 
erectile dysfunctions to yourself from now on.

and no.  slime also occurs on the far right.  thus my mentioning Pat 
Robertson in every post.  but you must have missed that because you were too 
busy chuckling at your sly reference to the "Aruba News".


he types: "George Bush lost New Orleans!" - Pat Buchanan 9/2/2005

i respond: damn boy...  i was capping on Buchanan while you were still 
carrying T.D. Barnes' backfiles.  here is an oldie but goodie from Feb 20, 
1996:

">"now, i didn't call him a racist. i merely called him an ideologue... but, 
in Pat's case the label is fit. dude, his just-resigned campaign manager 
went to a bunch of KKK "functions". Buchanan is about as explicit as it gets 
these days that non-whites are ruining this nation. his appeals are targeted 
bulls-eye at the angry white guy who can't get work because all them women 
and minorities are taking over. also, he seems to appeal to bad spellers."

but i notice that you have squarely aligned yourself with Pat Buchanan on 
this issue.  i discipline thee and i punish thee!


he types:  "And here's Newt....
( 
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/02/EDGLIEG9ST1.DTL 
)

i respond:  frikkin San Francisco Chronicle again.  are you trying to tell 
us something Slusher?  do i need to rethink wanting your love?


he types:  "You think only dems and the liberal elite (and by liberal elite 
I mean middle to low income recent college grads with blogs) are watching 
the daily tracking polls?"

i respond:  no i don't think that.


he types: "You think the Friday photo-op trip wasn't playing politics?
( 
http://www.wonkette.com/politics/george-w-bush/index.php#bush-in-katrinaland-123801 
)

i respond:  you did it!  you got him!  blessed be Allah!  you and the 
wonkette have shown me the error of my ways!  i promptly bought one of her 
"Bush doesn't care about black people" t-shirts for 17.99 to give you.  now 
that you and Pat Buchanan are best buds, i figured you could use a fashion 
update.

self-defense.  the elefuckinphant?

also, you clowns are playing both sides of this particular fence.
president doesn't show up?  he doesn't care!
president shows up?  he is playing politics!
tricky-trickee...  clever-clevah... what ever will Republicans do against 
such wiley stragedists?

he types: "Let me put it to you this way: All you've got is DEFENSE. It's 
sad really, to see your smart Republican friends having to defend this 
idiot. (or is it imbecile? Can't remember which is worse) It's one thing to 
complain about playing politics and another to have to defend against it 
because you're down to you last line of defense."

i respond:  yes... the Republicans are down to their last line of defense... 
  well, except for the part that they control most of the governorships, the 
House of Representatives, the Senate, the White House, and the Supreme 
Court.  except for that, the GOP is against the ropes!  the Democrats have 
them right where they want them!

and i believe "imbecile" is higher IQ than "idiot".  let me check real fast. 
  the ever-trusty Answers.com ( 
http://www.answers.com/topic/mental-retardation ) reminds us that:

"The introduction of the IQ test was followed by a classification system 
that used such terms as moron (IQ of 51?70), imbecile (26?50), and idiot 
(0?25); later these terms were softened and classifications redefined 
somewhat to mild (IQ of 55?70), moderate (40?54), severe (25?39), and 
profound (0?24) retardation. The term mentally retarded itself, although 
still commonly used, has been replaced in some settings by the term 
developmentally disabled."

he types: "It's over. First 9-11 after repeated warnings. Then Iraq on a 
pack of lies. Now, after dedicating his presidency to protecting the 
homeland and breaking the budget to pay for the largest agency consolidation 
in the history of the government your guy gets an F on his first exam."

i type:  did the old poster child of the far left get retired to a Gulag or 
something that you are all scrambling for the position?  let me be 
diplomatic about this:  you all lost the election because you had no ideas 
and were correctly portrayed as screeching shrills without a plan.  staying 
angry and twisted is not the way to go man...


he types:  "We're supposed to believe we're equipped to deal with a major 
terrorist attack after seeing this?  But that was the best reason they 
offered to vote for them!"

i type:  you didn't vote for Bush.  the best reason the 62 million Americans 
who DID vote for Bush had was looking at you.  and make no mistake...

the GOP "campaign" largely consisted of pointing at you.  and the net result 
was that the Democrats failed to obtain a popular majority for the 7th 
presidential election in a row.  the Republicans won the Presidency for the 
5th time in the last 7 elections, again with a popular majority.  the 
Republicans also control the Congress and the Courts and the Governorships.

but i agree that we are not prepared to deal with a major terrorist attack.  
so we should continue to take action to prevent it.  action that the left 
obstructs much like the environmental lobby has obstructed the Army Corps of 
Engineers for 25 years now.

he types: "The list of acceptable Republican candidates for president is 
looking better and better with each passing day. Republicans and Democrats 
alike know its over. The attacks are coming from all sides. ANYONE is better 
than this moron. You know that. You can out wit, deride and brow beat all 
you want. You're on your heels. Don't blame the left. Blame the idiot you're 
in the unfortunate position of having to defend. It's time to pick a new 
case."

i respond:  you crack me up, Slusher.  the midget squeeking about how he's 
gonna bust Arnold up!  and how!  isn't the Supreme Court about to move right 
some more?  didn't you all lose fucking California a few months ago?  i mean 
fucking C-A-L-I-F-O-R-N-I-A!!!  the home of the San Francisco Chronicle and 
the Los Angeles Times went Republican in the governor's race...  the 
Democrats have the Republicans right where they want them!


he types: "You can be a proud Republican without being tied to the anchor of 
Bush. Nothing wrong with the former. Idiotic to do the latter. History can 
be a very powerful judge.  George W. has lost his Oval Office privileges. 
And that's the bottom line. "

i respond:  History judges us every day.  George W. is about to seat 2 
Supreme Court justices, including the Chief Justice of the next 30 years.  
He is also going for a history-crunching repeat of mid-term election 
victories for the party-in-power.  And THAT is the bottom line.

oh yeah... ELEFUCKINPHANT....

and...  big wet smoochy San Francisco kiss for you!  gimme the love!

Michael Korcok





From bordenkm  Wed Sep  7 19:43:32 2005
From: bordenkm (Kara Borden)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:43:32 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] Puget Sound needs to hire for 6 rounds at Gonzaga
Message-ID: <b4ce60fb050907174348b75dd9@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone has extra rounds to sell for Gonzaga, contact me at this email 
address.
 Kara
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050907/0bde1779/attachment.htm 


From paulj567  Wed Sep  7 20:10:25 2005
From: paulj567 (Paul Johnson)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Case Western DD
Message-ID: <20050908011025.43426.qmail@web53504.mail.yahoo.com>

whichever of you i debated two years ago in the octas
at navy, hit me back

-pj
wfu

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 




From slusher  Wed Sep  7 20:48:16 2005
From: slusher (Eric Slusher)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:48:16 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans Slusher
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F40550D775A87EE5EE4AFCE4A60@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F40550D775A87EE5EE4AFCE4A60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9F517DD0-1313-4D0E-B518-4DA53C144015@gmail.com>

Actually, the post that showed up from me today was from before the  
one that posted a couple of days ago.  So I wasn't ignoring you, or  
being a typical illiterate liberal elitist.  Don't know why the  
server held it back.  Maybe edebate figured that, given your advanced  
age, you'd need some time to digest and respond to all the screaming  
and hand-wringing.  You know, typical liberal noise and whatnot.

Man, I miss korcok being around at every tournament.  Even if you are  
an old curmudgeon.

Found this on the internets yesterday and thought of you....

 From The Debate Handbook On Politics

Lesson #34: When you do something wrong and the result is really  
awful, treat it with a heavy dose of "now is not the time for playing  
politics!" (Repeat as needed until symptoms reporters go away.)

Lesson #34a: When your opponent does something wrong, even if no  
damage actually results from the mistake, milk it for all it's worth.

Citizen Footnote: When you hear a politician say "now is not the time  
for playing politics," go find out what that politician did wrong.



By the way, you are aware that it is tough to find a governor more  
likely to go down in dramatic defeat in '06 than Ahnold, right?  He's  
fourth from the bottom just ahead of the likes of Frank Murkowski (R- 
Alaska), Ernie Fletcher (R-KY)...such a criminal that he had to  
pardon himself and Bob "no contest" Taft (R-OH)...who's  looking at  
jail time so the repugs there are putting Ken Blackwell in the race.   
Yeah, he's got a chance.

Ahnold's got an "inclined to vote for" number of 36...down from 39 in  
June.  Good luck on those ballot initiatives though.

He ought to consider the Pataki plan...drop out to save your  
political life rather than sit around just to get smoked.

Surely you're aware that a "history crunching" mid-term election is  
unlikely.  Given that Bush only had a net-approval job rating in 10  
states BEFORE Katrina (I say before because that list of ten included  
Mississippi and Alabama...he was at even in Louisiana) I'm thinking  
reverse coattails could be an issue.  Also it's never good when a  
sure-loser like Santorum is coming out against the war.(you gotta  
pick sides, you know?)  It's even worse when Faux News' own poll has  
GOP members polling 3% behind Dems.  That's the best news the polls  
have given you since the Spring, though.



Something Duane said got me steamed....

"THere's ample evidence that the Govenor delayed her declaration of  
disaster, and that people were begging her to call out the Guard and  
she took her time. "

AMPLE evidence?  I guess by ample you mean the "anonymous senior bush  
official" quoted in Newsweek and the Washington Post and then  
amplified by Fox and others (like powerline, drudge and the freepers).

The Post printed a correction...Newsweek hasn't.  August 26th, my  
man.  This is an example of the White House deliberately shifting  
blame with a flat-out LIE.

Seriously, you need to consider getting your news from someone  
besides drudge.

The way I figure it, this is waaaay worse than bringing in all those  
firefighters and then only using them to pose with Bush for the photo  
op on Monday.  Pure SLIME.  I can't believe people are still buying it.

You really can't call someone else's response slow when on the 30th  
you were playing git-tar and cutting cake out west.

Never fear, Bush is appointing himself to investigate this mess.  You  
gotta hand it to BushCo.



Yours in slime,

slusher

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo



p.s. - I appreciate being referred to as a stud, in any sense, even  
the pejorative.  At this point I'll take whatever I can get!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050907/e214d57f/attachment.html 


From privethedge  Wed Sep  7 20:59:41 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] ans Slusher
In-Reply-To: <9F517DD0-1313-4D0E-B518-4DA53C144015@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050908015941.37841.qmail@web50901.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, Well..I didn't want to steam you. If they retracted it, OK.  But, they still didn't follow their own evacuation plan, that's pretty evident. I think there's a lot of blame to go around, enough so that everyone gets a big helping of it. If you think Bush and the FEMA guy are the only two that deserve it, then you're just as wrong as I was about the call out issue. Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








		
---------------------------------
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050907/dd74318a/attachment.htm 


From daisy_verney  Thu Sep  8 06:46:59 2005
From: daisy_verney (Danielle Verney)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:46:59 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Navy needs judging at Kings Tournament
Message-ID: <BAY102-F74FD826B7CABEDC5F0E40E5990@phx.gbl>

The Naval Academy will need to hire at least two judges for the King's 
College Tournament.  Email me at verney at usna.edu if you're interested and 
we'll work out the details.  We probably don't pay quite as well as 
Richmond, but I'm a lot easier on the eyes (just kidding Kevin).

Danielle Verney
USNA Debate





From alyse.kraus  Thu Sep  8 08:20:15 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:20:15 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b05090806204e495f07@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/07/AR2005090702462.html
 "But overall, the Bush administration's funding requests for the key New 
Orleans flood-control projects for the past five years were slightly higher 
than the Clinton administration's for its past five years. Lt. Gen. Carl 
Strock, the chief of the Corps, has said that in any event, more money would 
not have prevented the drowning of the city, since its levees were designed 
to protect against a Category 3 storm, and the levees that failed were 
already completed projects. Strock has also said that the marsh-restoration 
project would not have done much to diminish Katrina's storm surge, which 
passed east of the coastal wetlands."
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/8c1a4097/attachment.html 


From jane.munksgaard  Thu Sep  8 10:26:14 2005
From: jane.munksgaard (Jane Munksgaard)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:26:14 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
Message-ID: <fcc0f13c05090808267b940293@mail.gmail.com>

 <http://www.ndtceda.com/archives/200509/0134.html> 

The two paragraphs preceding Alyse's excerpt from the article:

 Louisiana's politicians have requested much more money for New
Orleanshurricane protection than the Bush administration has proposed
or Congress
has provided. In the last budget bill, Louisiana's delegation requested 
$27.1 million for shoring up levees around Lake Pontchartrain, the full 
amount the Corps had declared as its "project capability." Bush suggested 
$3.9 million, and Congress agreed to spend $5.7 million.

Administration officials also dramatically scaled back a long-term project 
to restore Louisiana's disappearing coastal marshes, which once provided a 
measure of natural hurricane protection for New Orleans. They ordered the 
Corps to stop work on a $14 billion plan, and devise a $2 billion plan 
instead.


 context sure is nice..
 
The Army Corps of Engineers funding this article is talking about addresses 
protective measures the feds spent in flooding protection NOT the ability of 
the federal government to respond to natural disasters and other security 
dilemmas.

Currently, the Bush administrations consolidation of FEMA into homeland 
security seems to be more of the problem than levee funding. Even if the 
levee projects were fully funded by the Bush administration (which they 
weren't) the projects wouldn't have been completed in time for Hurricane 
Katrina. It's the same with the Clinton administration's projects. 

Plus wasn't it you saying a week ago that 

"Does anyone else think it's sad that at a time when hundreds of thousands 
of 
people along the gulf coast have lost everything, we're seeing this kind of 
crap on edebate. I'm sorry, but I think that says something seriously bad 
about our community. Debate is supposed to be an activity that educates us 
about the world around us, in hopes that we can then become better citizens 
of that world who are willing and able to help in times of need. Instead, 
less than a week after what could be the most devastating event in US 
history, some of the smartest minds in the country are on this list 
name-calling, fingerpointing, and generally missing the point by about a 
mile."

 Well this half assed defense of Bush with a line comparing his funding to 
Clinton's seems to be politicization of the worst kind. Taking a small part 
of the New Orleans problem Bush addressed and trying to slyly imply that 
other presidents funding measure were also inadequate is the kind of talking 
point I'm sick of seeing Bush's press secretary spout every day. The new 
party line is, "There will be a time for finger pointing and application of 
blame but now we're in a crisis." Well if that's truly the case right 
wingers should stop trying to point fingers elsewhere (like the democratic 
LA senators, governor, and mayor for ex) and actually focus on how the feds 
can adequately respond the next time we need a city evacuated.

 Jane
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/6fabf0fb/attachment.htm 


From joepatrice  Thu Sep  8 10:30:43 2005
From: joepatrice (Joe Patrice)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:30:43 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
Message-ID: <f7194f2d050908083027b74c59@mail.gmail.com>

That article is the first step to a counter-argument but it has vague
points I'd need fleshed out.  It notes that these most of the
increases were largely for unrelated projects and it uses the key word
"requests" rather than "allocations" or "spent" which was a red flag
that whatever was "requested" at first the Clinton administration
actually did spend more than the Bush administration.  When understood
as a difference in the overall amount of the requests, it a) doesn't
refute the fact that the actual cuts were made in 2003 and b) probably
is accounted for solely by inflation.  I really need a story more in
the vein of "other administrations actually slashed its funding by a
higher percentage" and I'm still not sure what this article shows on
that front.

It is however useful for the argument that not doing these cuts
wouldn't have stopped this crisis.  I actually think that's true, but
I personally think that the administration declaring itself inculpable
because, if Katrina didn't happen, its cuts would have endangered the
city three years from now rather than today is not all that strong of
an argument.




From jlyle  Thu Sep  8 10:42:49 2005
From: jlyle (James Lyle)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:42:49 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Kings Judging
Message-ID: <0IMI0018W8Y8S1@earth.clarion.edu>

Clarion University is also looking to hire some judging for the King's
Debate Tournament (9/23-25).  We could use 1 to 2 judges.  If interested,
let me know.  

 

Jim Lyle

814-393-2476

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/c9ee418c/attachment.html 


From alyse.kraus  Thu Sep  8 11:05:45 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:05:45 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b0509080905160569da@mail.gmail.com>

Jane - 
 I simply thought it was an interesting article that took a view a bit 
different from what tends to get expressed on the list. While I think it's 
crap that this type of stuff is what dominates the discussion, I feel that, 
if it's going to be that way, at least numerous sides of the argument could 
be represented.
  I'm not even saying I agree with all of the article. I just thought it 
made for an interesting read. 
 - Alyse
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/188b65b2/attachment.htm 


From privethedge  Thu Sep  8 11:29:47 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:29:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
In-Reply-To: <ffc8ea7b0509080905160569da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050908162947.31193.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com>

No..No..it's simpler, far simpler to say "Bush Bad" "Bush Evil" "George Bush Hates Black People" "George Bush is an Evil Tyrant" "George Bush Fiddled while New Orleans Sunk" than it would be to say - "look, everyone from the mayor to the govenor to W. messed this one up, and messed it up bad. Far, far easier.
 
Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








		
---------------------------------
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/31785247/attachment.html 


From stannardmatt  Thu Sep  8 11:34:16 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:34:16 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
In-Reply-To: <f7194f2d050908083027b74c59@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F14944B598256757B595C91D2990@phx.gbl>

Please, everyone stop saying ANYTHING political.  Only Korcok has the right 
to do that.  If you don't respect his autho'aty, he'll call you a dirty 
name.

stannard





From alyse.kraus  Thu Sep  8 11:34:41 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:34:41 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
In-Reply-To: <20050908162947.31193.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <ffc8ea7b0509080905160569da@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20050908162947.31193.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b0509080934794178b4@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, and one more thing - 
 The paragraph I quoted was not out of context. You're right context sure is 
nice and the context of the article AS A WHOLE makes it rather clear that 
the situation a) goes beyond the current administration and b) more money 
isn't necessarily the answer since money they received prior to Katrina was 
often times spent on things having nothing to do with flood prevention.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/496863c2/attachment.htm 


From dcbloomi  Thu Sep  8 11:43:03 2005
From: dcbloomi (Daniel Bloomingdale)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:43:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
In-Reply-To: <f7194f2d050908083027b74c59@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050908164304.43257.qmail@web33114.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am surprised to learn that the Clinton
administration is the standard by which presidential
competence is measured.  "Not as bad as the previous
administration" isn't a very reassuring endorsement.


--- Joe Patrice <joepatrice at gmail.com> wrote:

> That article is the first step to a counter-argument
> but it has vague
> points I'd need fleshed out.  It notes that these
> most of the
> increases were largely for unrelated projects and it
> uses the key word
> "requests" rather than "allocations" or "spent"
> which was a red flag
> that whatever was "requested" at first the Clinton
> administration
> actually did spend more than the Bush
> administration.  When understood
> as a difference in the overall amount of the
> requests, it a) doesn't
> refute the fact that the actual cuts were made in
> 2003 and b) probably
> is accounted for solely by inflation.  I really need
> a story more in
> the vein of "other administrations actually slashed
> its funding by a
> higher percentage" and I'm still not sure what this
> article shows on
> that front.
> 
> It is however useful for the argument that not doing
> these cuts
> wouldn't have stopped this crisis.  I actually think
> that's true, but
> I personally think that the administration declaring
> itself inculpable
> because, if Katrina didn't happen, its cuts would
> have endangered the
> city three years from now rather than today is not
> all that strong of
> an argument.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber
> list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
> 


I should like to be able to love my country and still love justice.      --Albert Camus




From jbhdb8  Thu Sep  8 11:43:58 2005
From: jbhdb8 (Josh Hoe)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:43:58 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
In-Reply-To: <20050908162947.31193.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <ffc8ea7b0509080905160569da@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20050908162947.31193.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f6ec14bb050908094367ad9340@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
 I was originally on the side of "not Bush's fault" which is rare for 
me....I loathe the man. However, recent events make this one that cant 
garner a free pass - his post hurricane leadership was worse than the 
pre-hurricane leadership:
 1. The ineptitude of staying on his vacation then fund raising rather than 
going straight to crisis mode.
 2. The Cronyism hiring the current head of FEMA (Arabian horse expert)
 3. The attempt to discredit the governor of Louisiana by concocting the 
"she didnt legitimize a federal response" which she clearly did.
 4. The attempt to blame the newspaper story titled "Hurricane Misses NO" 
which not only did not exist - but clearly hypes the ineptitude of a 
President being "less" informed about current events than ANYONE watching 
CNN for the days in question.
 5. The comments by his mother about how those relocated to Houston were 
indegent so its a "pretty good deal for them."
 6. Bush's "I am sad it happened I used to party there opening comments" 
followed later by the "of course I care Trent Lotts million dollar home was 
destroyed" comment at the end of the day.
 7. The "great work Brownie" comment.
 8. The "I will personally lead an investigation into what went right and 
what went wrong" comment from yesterday - wow, really, you are going to 
personally investigate yourself?
 There are so many more its hard to fathom how filled with hubris these 
people are,
 Josh

 On 9/8/05, Duane Hyland <privethedge at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> No..No..it's simpler, far simpler to say "Bush Bad" "Bush Evil" "George 
> Bush Hates Black People" "George Bush is an Evil Tyrant" "George Bush 
> Fiddled while New Orleans Sunk" than it would be to say - "look, everyone 
> from the mayor to the govenor to W. messed this one up, and messed it up 
> bad. Far, far easier.
>  Duane
> 
> 
>     "You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
> 
> "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of 
> the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that 
> person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind? If the 
> opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error 
> for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the 
> clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its 
> collision with error." John S. Mill
> 
> ------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.<http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/> 
> 
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/00c1bc9f/attachment.html 


From CCooper  Thu Sep  8 11:51:46 2005
From: CCooper (Chris Cooper)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:51:46 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
In-Reply-To: <20050908162947.31193.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200509081645.j88Gjwjm016642@smtp2.dti.net>

Yeah..but wouldn't all those easier statements be true too?  =\

 

-Coop

 

  _____  

From: edebate-admin at ndtceda.com [mailto:edebate-admin at ndtceda.com] On Behalf
Of Duane Hyland
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:30 PM
To: alyse.kraus at gmail.com; edebate
Subject: Re: [eDebate] something to think about

 

No..No..it's simpler, far simpler to say "Bush Bad" "Bush Evil" "George Bush
Hates Black People" "George Bush is an Evil Tyrant" "George Bush Fiddled
while New Orleans Sunk" than it would be to say - "look, everyone from the
mayor to the govenor to W. messed this one up, and messed it up bad. Far,
far easier.

 

Duane

 

"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of
the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that
person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind. If the
opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error
for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the
clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its
collision with error." John S. Mill

  _____  

Click here to donate <http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/>  to the
Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/d2cd4c9f/attachment.htm 


From katerichey  Thu Sep  8 11:53:36 2005
From: katerichey (Katie Richey)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:53:36 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Kentucky judging for sale
Message-ID: <51ab18c805090809534bdacf9b@mail.gmail.com>

I can judge all three days - I don't need transportation or housing - email 
me if you are interested
 kate
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/51e13fdf/attachment.html 


From privethedge  Thu Sep  8 11:57:37 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:57:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
In-Reply-To: <f6ec14bb050908094367ad9340@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050908165737.60053.qmail@web50904.mail.yahoo.com>

LOOK...I THINK W SHARES  A HEFTY PORTION OF THE BLAME HERE. Sorry, oops, caps locks on...I'm not saying he doesnt....but what I'm saying is that a far more honest, and accurate, assessment is that everyone deserves blame - nobody, from the Mayor that didn't follow his own, detailed, evacuation plan (all those school buses which should have been used to move people were left to set there), to the Govenor who may, or may not, have done what she was supposed to do, to the head of FEMA (who strikes me as a bit out of his element), to Bush.
 
Bush is just one of many people who get the blame. Disaster response is supposed to be a local and state thing first, then the feds. Nobody - local, state, the feds, did what they were supposed to do.
 
Say what you want to about Bush - and there's plenty to be said - but you can't simply set there and say it was totally his fault, and expect me to think you're being anything but partisian. I'm the most hardbitten conservative on this list, and y'all know what I think about Bush, but I'll even say he screwed this one up - as long as its understood that I think several other people did as well.
 
Besides, I think ABC news released a pole yesterday that shows that only 13% of the nation things that what happened is soley Bush's fault. So, I guess I'm pretty mainstream on this one.
 
Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/cc032e74/attachment.htm 


From jbhdb8  Thu Sep  8 12:06:55 2005
From: jbhdb8 (Josh Hoe)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:06:55 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
In-Reply-To: <20050908165737.60053.qmail@web50904.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <f6ec14bb050908094367ad9340@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20050908165737.60053.qmail@web50904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f6ec14bb05090810066155b4e@mail.gmail.com>

The natural response is to think "gosh its a natural disaster" how could it 
be the prez.....fair enough....you are wrong though the GOV clearly and 
publically asked Bush days before he responded and days before they 
concocted this BS about "state laws superceding federal response." 
 The head of FEMA was a bit out of his element???? He was Joe Albaughs 
roomate in college and his professional experience prior to being head of 
FEMA was being the head of jockey and stewards for the international arabian 
horse foundation for 11 years (a job from which he was asked to resign). He 
has NO emergency management experience and the list of emergencies they are 
claiming he has managed is laughable and all happened after they appointed 
him with NO management experience.
 My point was that SINCE the crisis he has been insesnsitive at best and 
arrogantly incompetant at worst. Sometimes disgustingly so. More people to 
blame, sure, but they are not MY President and I do not get a chance to vote 
for or against them.
 Josh
    
> Besides, I think ABC news released a pole yesterday that shows that only 
> 13% of the nation things that what happened is soley Bush's fault. So, I 
> guess I'm pretty mainstream on this one.
>  Duane
> 
> 
>     "You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
> 
> "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of 
> the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that 
> person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind? If the 
> opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error 
> for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the 
> clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its 
> collision with error." John S. Mill
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/e9beb286/attachment.html 


From jane.munksgaard  Thu Sep  8 12:21:06 2005
From: jane.munksgaard (Jane Munksgaard)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:21:06 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Re: something to think about
In-Reply-To: <20050908171158.24001.qmail@web50205.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050908171158.24001.qmail@web50205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fcc0f13c050908102170f3474d@mail.gmail.com>

I love how her first reaction is "I'm not really defending anything" when 
then later she comes back and attempts to defend herself with some shitty 
quip about context. Conviently missising that my main point was that W 
fucked up FEMA and federal response not the hurricane prevention. 

how did paul deal?

On 9/8/05, Joe Koehle <joe_koehle at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> jane, we all know there is no point in arguing on edebate with elyse 
> kraus.
>  joe
> 
> ------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.<http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/> 
> 
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/f508a50e/attachment.htm 


From parcherj  Thu Sep  8 12:27:45 2005
From: parcherj (Jeff Parcher)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:27:45 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
References: <20050908165737.60053.qmail@web50904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <012f01c5b49a$a29404e0$6401a8c0@D3GVG561>

>Besides, I think ABC news released a pole yesterday that shows that only 13% 
>of the nation things that what happened is soley Bush's fault. So, I guess I'm pretty 
>mainstream on this one.

clearly something to brag about...
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Duane Hyland 
  To: Josh Hoe 
  Cc: alyse.kraus at gmail.com ; edebate 
  Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [eDebate] something to think about


  LOOK...I THINK W SHARES  A HEFTY PORTION OF THE BLAME HERE. Sorry, oops, caps locks on...I'm not saying he doesnt....but what I'm saying is that a far more honest, and accurate, assessment is that everyone deserves blame - nobody, from the Mayor that didn't follow his own, detailed, evacuation plan (all those school buses which should have been used to move people were left to set there), to the Govenor who may, or may not, have done what she was supposed to do, to the head of FEMA (who strikes me as a bit out of his element), to Bush.

  Bush is just one of many people who get the blame. Disaster response is supposed to be a local and state thing first, then the feds. Nobody - local, state, the feds, did what they were supposed to do.

  Say what you want to about Bush - and there's plenty to be said - but you can't simply set there and say it was totally his fault, and expect me to think you're being anything but partisian. I'm the most hardbitten conservative on this list, and y'all know what I think about Bush, but I'll even say he screwed this one up - as long as its understood that I think several other people did as well.

  Besides, I think ABC news released a pole yesterday that shows that only 13% of the nation things that what happened is soley Bush's fault. So, I guess I'm pretty mainstream on this one.

  Duane



  "You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

  "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill

  __________________________________________________
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/d7369547/attachment.html 


From jane.munksgaard  Thu Sep  8 12:32:07 2005
From: jane.munksgaard (Jane Munksgaard)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:32:07 -0400
Subject: "[eDebate] Re: something to think about"
Message-ID: <fcc0f13c05090810323fe818f6@mail.gmail.com>

opps- that was supposed to be a private backchannel. my bad.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/312136ef/attachment.htm 


From alyse.kraus  Thu Sep  8 12:39:44 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:39:44 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] what the...?
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b050908103976bd9f3d@mail.gmail.com>

Jane,
 I don't really understand where your hostility is coming from, I posted an 
article that I thought was interesting because it was pretty much the exact 
opposite of what everyone else seemed to be posting. Last time I checked, 
this was a forum that was supposed to promote a diversity of arguments. 
 I "missed" your point because I don't really think your point addressed my 
post in anyway. Yes, the response was screwed up. I'm not denying that. What 
I do have a problem with is the number of people who assign blame for things 
like levees failing and floodwaters pouring into the city without having 
much understanding of the history or circumstances surrounding those events.
 As for your INCREDIBLY insulting, insensitive and frankly unnecessary quip 
about "how did Paul deal?", I'm not really sure what I should say to that. 
For one thing, I think it's utterly classless of you to say something like 
that particularly on the list and particularly when it doesn't concern you. 
I am frankly hurt and shocked that you would even dare to try and drag my 
personal life into this discussion. I refuse to justify myself or my 
relationships to YOU. And you should be ashamed for saying something like 
that publicly on the list.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/1b006ae2/attachment.html 


From jane.munksgaard  Thu Sep  8 13:09:34 2005
From: jane.munksgaard (Jane Munksgaard)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:09:34 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Re: what the...?
In-Reply-To: <ffc8ea7b050908103976bd9f3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ffc8ea7b050908103976bd9f3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fcc0f13c050908110967d358ff@mail.gmail.com>

First, In case you missed it, I ALREADY posted a follow up explaining that 
the post was a private backchannel accidently posted to edebate. I guess 
only Republican presidents are allowed to be excused for their mistakes. I 
won't bother apologizing again as that might be considered "classless"

Second, You're still missing the point about your original post - two 
vaguely out of context paragraphs do not constitute "posting an article" and 
barely qualify as "contributing to the discussion". The majority of 
criticism of the administration on this list and elsewhere is about the 
failure of an adequate response, something you haven't addressed. 

After reading your posts I'll stand by my initial question of "how did Paul 
deal?" I'll worry about being ashamed later. Obviously I have no shame.

On 9/8/05, Alyse Kraus <alyse.kraus at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Jane,
>  I don't really understand where your hostility is coming from, I posted 
> an article that I thought was interesting because it was pretty much the 
> exact opposite of what everyone else seemed to be posting. Last time I 
> checked, this was a forum that was supposed to promote a diversity of 
> arguments. 
>  I "missed" your point because I don't really think your point addressed 
> my post in anyway. Yes, the response was screwed up. I'm not denying that. 
> What I do have a problem with is the number of people who assign blame for 
> things like levees failing and floodwaters pouring into the city without 
> having much understanding of the history or circumstances surrounding those 
> events. 
>  As for your INCREDIBLY insulting, insensitive and frankly unnecessary 
> quip about "how did Paul deal?", I'm not really sure what I should say to 
> that. For one thing, I think it's utterly classless of you to say something 
> like that particularly on the list and particularly when it doesn't concern 
> you. I am frankly hurt and shocked that you would even dare to try and drag 
> my personal life into this discussion. I refuse to justify myself or my 
> relationships to YOU. And you should be ashamed for saying something like 
> that publicly on the list. 
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/c25536b7/attachment.htm 


From jane.munksgaard  Thu Sep  8 13:09:34 2005
From: jane.munksgaard (Jane Munksgaard)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:09:34 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Re: what the...?
In-Reply-To: <ffc8ea7b050908103976bd9f3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ffc8ea7b050908103976bd9f3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fcc0f13c050908110967d358ff@mail.gmail.com>

First, In case you missed it, I ALREADY posted a follow up explaining that 
the post was a private backchannel accidently posted to edebate. I guess 
only Republican presidents are allowed to be excused for their mistakes. I 
won't bother apologizing again as that might be considered "classless"

Second, You're still missing the point about your original post - two 
vaguely out of context paragraphs do not constitute "posting an article" and 
barely qualify as "contributing to the discussion". The majority of 
criticism of the administration on this list and elsewhere is about the 
failure of an adequate response, something you haven't addressed. 

After reading your posts I'll stand by my initial question of "how did Paul 
deal?" I'll worry about being ashamed later. Obviously I have no shame.

On 9/8/05, Alyse Kraus <alyse.kraus at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Jane,
>  I don't really understand where your hostility is coming from, I posted 
> an article that I thought was interesting because it was pretty much the 
> exact opposite of what everyone else seemed to be posting. Last time I 
> checked, this was a forum that was supposed to promote a diversity of 
> arguments. 
>  I "missed" your point because I don't really think your point addressed 
> my post in anyway. Yes, the response was screwed up. I'm not denying that. 
> What I do have a problem with is the number of people who assign blame for 
> things like levees failing and floodwaters pouring into the city without 
> having much understanding of the history or circumstances surrounding those 
> events. 
>  As for your INCREDIBLY insulting, insensitive and frankly unnecessary 
> quip about "how did Paul deal?", I'm not really sure what I should say to 
> that. For one thing, I think it's utterly classless of you to say something 
> like that particularly on the list and particularly when it doesn't concern 
> you. I am frankly hurt and shocked that you would even dare to try and drag 
> my personal life into this discussion. I refuse to justify myself or my 
> relationships to YOU. And you should be ashamed for saying something like 
> that publicly on the list. 
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/c25536b7/attachment.html 


From DUTCHERM  Thu Sep  8 13:32:01 2005
From: DUTCHERM (Dutcher, Michael)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:32:01 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] 2005 Cap Cities Invitation (Attached and in body of email)
Message-ID: <03603D4CD9B6D2468687A2285F42BC7F02B9BBBD@MAIL01.cua.edu>

September 8, 2005

Dear Debate Colleagues,

We are pleased to invite you to the 6th Annual Cap City at Catholic
University Debate Tournament on Friday, November 4, to Sunday, November
6, 2004.

 

Returned back to Less Expensive Hotel upon Popular Demand - as in 2001,
we will be at the Holiday Inn, Greenbelt. Great Rate of $84 a night and
still only 15 minutes to D.C. It is the shopping center with a Chevy's
and a couple of other good chains. To make reservations, call 301
982-7000. It is under Catholic University Debate. October 11, 2005 is
the cut off date. If you have any problems, ask for Lisa in sales. The
website is www.holiday-inn.com/greenbelt-nasa

 

So, to continue, in the great tradition of Cap City Debates, we will
offer 6 rounds of preliminary competition: 2 on Friday and 4 on Saturday
and elimination rounds on campus on Sunday.

 

Our goal is to get everyone out early on both days to allow you to enjoy
the cultural life of Washington, D.C.! We are also pleased to announce
that we will also run a separate J.V. and Novice Tournament. This (only
JV and Novice) will be an ADA tournament and run by a separate tab room.

 

As we have in the past, Catholic University is set to provide some
outstanding hospitality. Bagels/Coffee both mornings, Lunch on Saturday
and Sunday, a hospitality room, and a coaches/judges reception both
nights. Nice awards and plenty of time to enjoy Washington, D.C.

 

Great low fares into Baltimore can be found through Southwest Airlines.
BWI is not that far from Catholic University. They are always running
internet specials. Their website is <http://www.southwest.com/> and
their phone number is 1-800-IflySWA. Additionally, rates seem to be
getting more competitive for Reagan National as well.

 

Great Features of Tournament: We really hope that debaters and coaches
have an opportunity to enjoy D.C. at night. The metro comes right onto
our campus and we are only 2 stops from all the great restaurants on
Capitol Hill. We will have a complete guide for you when you register. 

 

Tournament Fees: Entry fees for the tournament will be One hundred
dollars $100.00 per two-person team. Please make any checks payable to
"The Catholic University of America."

 

Judges: Each school is expected to provide one judge per team.
Accordingly, a coach with one team will be expected to judge three
rounds. A coach with two teams is expected to judge all six rounds. In
addition to his or her preliminary judging assignments, each judge is
expected to stay one round past that in which their team is eliminated.
Each judge is at least obligated through octo-finals in Varsity and
Quarterfinals in the other 2 divisions. The tournament will not have
extra rounds available but we might be able to arrange communications
between potential judges and teams in need. Please designate which
judging pools you want to assign your judges to if you have multiple
judges with teams in both tournaments.

 

Format: Six preliminary Rounds with 2 presets. No lag powering. All
high/low within brackets. Brackets will be broken for Varsity.
Elimination side determination process will itself be decided by a coin
flip (unless the teams have met previously). Mutual Preference (goes
into effect round 1 for Varsity). For Novice and JV, we will accept
hybrid teams and they can debate in elimination rounds. 9-3-6 with 10
minutes preparation. 

 

 

Tentative Schedule:

 

Thursday November 3, 2005

 

8:00 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. - Early Registration at the Holiday Inn
Hospitality Suite.

 

Friday November 4, 2005

12:00 PM         Registration in the Pryzbylya Center on campus

2:00 PM           Pairings Distributed at Catholic University Pryz
Center 
3:30 PM           Round 1 Begins

6:15 PM           Round 2 Begins

9:00 PM           Coaches Reception at Holiday Inn (If there are
interested parties. Last year no one showed up.)

 

Saturday, November 5, 2005

7:30 AM          Pairings Distributed at Catholic University Bagels,
Coffee and Juice Provided in Pryz 

8:00 AM          Round 3 Begins 

11:00 AM        Round 4 Begins 

2:00 PM           Lunch 

3:00 PM           Round 5 

6:00 PM           Round 6 Begins

 

Sunday, November 6, 2005

7:30 AM          Pairings handed out

8:30 AM          Elimination Rounds begins 

11:30 AM        Awards

12:30 PM         Elimination Rounds Continue

 

Entering: Please enter your teams and specify your judging assignments
by midnight Tuesday, October 19, 2004. Please enter via email to Michael
Dutcher at dutcherm at cua.edu. We should have enough space but if this
gets larger than anticipated we might have to limit the number of
entries per school, and also, on first-come,first serve basis. You can
also fax information to me at (202) 319-4983. Please indicate in Subject
heading Catholic University Debate Tournament Entries. 

 

1.      Please provide the following: 
Contact information: School name, coach's name, contact phone numbers
for coaches (home and office), and email addresses.

2.      Full Student Names, first and last, for each team. 

3.      Full Judges Names, listing conflicts for each judge and
scheduling constraints. 

4.      Rank your teams A,B,and C for Varsity 

 

We look forward to seeing you in November! Let us know if we can be of
any assistance.

 

Regards,

 

Michael Dutcher

Acting Director of Debate

The Catholic University of America

Office:  202 319 6265

Cell:     202 725 8189

Fax:      202 319 4983

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/f7163e86/attachment.htm 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 2005 Cap Cities Invite.948DEFANGED-doc
Type: application/defanged
Size: 40448 bytes
Desc: 2005 Cap Cities Invite.doc
Url : http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/f7163e86/attachment.bin 


From alyse.kraus  Thu Sep  8 13:20:23 2005
From: alyse.kraus (Alyse Kraus)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:20:23 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Re: what the...?
In-Reply-To: <fcc0f13c050908110967d358ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ffc8ea7b050908103976bd9f3d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <fcc0f13c050908110967d358ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ffc8ea7b050908112030fc8e69@mail.gmail.com>

Whatever, Jane, you've obviously decided that you want to start an argument 
over an article that I didn't write, but merely thought was interesting. And 
as for the "mistake" I wrote my response to your email before that was 
posted, in any case I'm not sure that excuses what you said anyhow - it's 
not really your place to wonder something like that since you weren't in the 
relationship. 
 You have also continued to read into my words only those meanings you want 
to see. Please explain to me when I said the administration either a) 
handled the storm aftermath appropriately or b) should be excused for 
that...I'm somehow forgetting such comments. Not to mention that your 
initial "oops" didn't seem like an apology - particularly when combined with 
the fact that you have decided to publicly stand by that question (which you 
say you mistakenly shared with the entire debate community). Excuse me for 
not being overwhelmed by your graciousness but I guess I'm just missing it. 
 It doesn't seem to me that you have any shame since you've chosen to stand 
by your comment. Perhaps it's the way I was raised, but genearlly, when you 
talked about other people and their private lives in public and said things 
that were mean and hurtful, it certainly was never something to be proud of. 
I've reached the point where I no longer desire to continue this 
conversation with you. One of the things I've always thought was 
particularly good about edebate was that people were able to express a host 
of opinions and, while those opinions were surely challenged, rarely was 
anyone purposely rude or mean. You apparently feel like your behavior was 
justified (and probably funny), which is fine, you're allowed to feel that 
way. I, however, don't and forgive me if I don't particularly desire to 
continue this. Having a relationship that's been over for more than a year 
called into question on the list was quite enough for today.

 - Alyse

On 9/8/05, Jane Munksgaard <jane.munksgaard at gmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> First, In case you missed it, I ALREADY posted a follow up explaining that 
> the post was a private backchannel accidently posted to edebate. I guess 
> only Republican presidents are allowed to be excused for their mistakes. I 
> won't bother apologizing again as that might be considered "classless"
> 
> Second, You're still missing the point about your original post - two 
> vaguely out of context paragraphs do not constitute "posting an article" and 
> barely qualify as "contributing to the discussion". The majority of 
> criticism of the administration on this list and elsewhere is about the 
> failure of an adequate response, something you haven't addressed. 
> 
> After reading your posts I'll stand by my initial question of "how did 
> Paul deal?" I'll worry about being ashamed later. Obviously I have no shame. 
> 
> 
> On 9/8/05, Alyse Kraus <alyse.kraus at gmail.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > Jane,
> >  I don't really understand where your hostility is coming from, I posted 
> > an article that I thought was interesting because it was pretty much the 
> > exact opposite of what everyone else seemed to be posting. Last time I 
> > checked, this was a forum that was supposed to promote a diversity of 
> > arguments. 
> >  I "missed" your point because I don't really think your point addressed 
> > my post in anyway. Yes, the response was screwed up. I'm not denying that. 
> > What I do have a problem with is the number of people who assign blame for 
> > things like levees failing and floodwaters pouring into the city without 
> > having much understanding of the history or circumstances surrounding those 
> > events. 
> >  As for your INCREDIBLY insulting, insensitive and frankly unnecessary 
> > quip about "how did Paul deal?", I'm not really sure what I should say to 
> > that. For one thing, I think it's utterly classless of you to say something 
> > like that particularly on the list and particularly when it doesn't concern 
> > you. I am frankly hurt and shocked that you would even dare to try and drag 
> > my personal life into this discussion. I refuse to justify myself or my 
> > relationships to YOU. And you should be ashamed for saying something like 
> > that publicly on the list. 
> > 
> 
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/befddf47/attachment.htm 


From FijiPapabear  Thu Sep  8 14:24:39 2005
From: FijiPapabear (FijiPapabear at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:24:39 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] Funny Joke about the Bush Adminstration
Message-ID: <215.8a7e976.3051e9f7@aol.com>

How many members of the Bush administration does it take to change a light 
bulb?
1. One to deny that a light bulb needs to be changed;
2. One to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs to be 
changed;
3. One to blame Clinton for burning out the light bulb;
4. One to arrange the invasion of a country rumored to have a secret 
stockpile of light bulbs;
5. One to give a billion dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton for the 
new light bulb;
6. One to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor, standing on a 
step ladder under the banner: Light Bulb Change Accomplished;
7. One administration insider to resign and write a book documenting in 
detail how Bush was literally in the dark;
8. One to viciously smear #7;
9. One surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has had 
a strong light-bulb-changing policy all along;
10. And finally one to confuse Americans about the difference between 
screwing a light bulb and screwing the country.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/44505a11/attachment.html 


From kerpen  Thu Sep  8 15:13:07 2005
From: kerpen (Phil Kerpen)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:13:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Judging at Big Bronx (October 14-16, 2005) (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0509081613010.4598-100000@hsdebate.com>


-- 
------------------------
Phil Kerpen
Cell: 202.285.9714 // Fax and Voicemail: 202.478.0343

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:50:06 -0400
From: Jon Cruz <joncruz1138 at gmail.com>
To: kerpen at ndtceda.com
Subject: Judging at Big Bronx (October 14-16, 2005)

Hi Phil -- could you post this to eDebate? I'd appreciate it!

--
The Bronx High School of Science is looking to hire qualified judges in 
policy debate for BIG BRONX XXXV, the 35th Annual New York City 
Invitational. 

We are delighted to restore our tradition of offering a challenging and 
competitive tournament early in the year. Our significant revamping of the 
tournament will mark a new beginning for a competition with a long history 
of excellence and prestige. The enlarged, six-round Lincoln-Douglas Debate 
tournament and the new Public Forum tournament will take place on Friday and 
Saturday, October 14-15, 2005. The newly-expanded policy tournament--now 
featuring seven preliminary rounds--will take place on Friday, Saturday, and 
Sunday, October 14-16, 2005. The latter tournament has a finals bid to the 
Tournament of Champions.

This is an exciting year for Big Bronx. Following the New York City 
Invitational, the Bronx Round Robin will bring together some of the finest 
Lincoln-Douglas debaters in the nation for two days of intense competition. 
These rounds are sure to be highly educational and are open to the public. 
The restoration of the round robin--combined with the projected size and 
strength of our judging pool and our competitive pool, as well as our new 
judge strike system and mandatory paradigm disclosure--guarantee this year 
will be one of the finest in the tournament's history.

With your help in the judging pool, I am confident we can similarly restore 
our policy tournament. If you are interested in judging for hire, please 
contact me immediately at joncruz1138 at gmail.com. 
 

-- 
Jon Cruz
Head LD Debate Coach
The Bronx High School of Science 
Victory Briefs Daily | VBI at UCLA | Session II




From jane.munksgaard  Thu Sep  8 15:24:32 2005
From: jane.munksgaard (Jane Munksgaard)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:24:32 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] what the...?
Message-ID: <fcc0f13c05090813243d4e5b25@mail.gmail.com>

First, In case you missed it, I ALREADY posted a follow up explaining that 
the post was a private backchannel accidently posted to edebate. I guess 
only Republican presidents are allowed to be excused for their mistakes. I 
won't bother apologizing again as that might be considered "classless"

Second, You're still missing the point about your original post - two 
vaguely out of context paragraphs do not constitute "posting an article" and 
barely qualify as "contributing to the discussion". The majority of 
criticism of the administration on this list and elsewhere is about the 
failure of an adequate response, something you haven't addressed. 

After reading your posts I'll stand by my initial question of "how did Paul 
deal?" I'll worry about being ashamed later. Obviously I have no shame.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/19887664/attachment.htm 


From DUTCHERM  Thu Sep  8 16:03:13 2005
From: DUTCHERM (Dutcher, Michael)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:03:13 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] In Search of Two Room for Kentucky
Message-ID: <03603D4CD9B6D2468687A2285F42BC7F02B9BC2A@MAIL01.cua.edu>

Hello,

 

Does anyone have any rooms that they are not going to need?

 

Thanks,

 

Michael Dutcher

Acting Director of Debate

The Catholic University of America

(o) 202 319 6265

(c) 202 725 8189

(f) 202 319 4983

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/c521ab93/attachment.html 


From porlermc  Thu Sep  8 16:27:54 2005
From: porlermc (Peter McCollum)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:27:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Playing politics with Katrina
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0509081335090.25430@barney.gonzaga.edu>

Once again I'm cleaning out this old email account inbox and asking myself 
why the fuck haven't I unsubscribed from edebate. But now I just can't 
help myself. Korcok, you're a moron, do you think about this stuff before 
you start writing, or does your keyboard have dysentary? Whatever.

I didn't really bother to read all of the posts, but I'm pretty confident 
that Slusher shut down the claims that Bush and the White House aren't 
playing politics with this, but I want to reiterate some of my favorites.

What the White House did: Gave the press an unattributed quote from a 
senior official claiming that Gov. Blanco didn't declare a state of 
emergency, thereby giving the unmistakable impression that it was the 
state/local (Democrats) fault.
What other information would have been helpful: Knowing that this was, in 
fact, a lie.
Why?: Playing politics
Was this Bush "defending" himself: No

What Bush did: Held a photo-op playing up the success and "hard work" of 
the rescue efforts in Mississippi while standing in front of first 
responders and 2 Coast Guard helecopters.
What other information would have been helpful: Ummm... the helecopters 
were at a photo-op for the President rather than out rescuing people.
Why?: Playing politics
Was this Bush "defending" himself: No
Also, Bush's political efforts cost people their lives. There is nothing 
forgivable about that.


This much has been covered by other people, but I want to also break some 
new ground. Korcok wrote that the distinction between 9/11 and Katrina was 
that 9/11 was a political attack which demanded a political response. I 
think that there 2 aspects of this issue that should be brutally obvious 
to everyone:

First, Bush holds a political office, his election to which charged him 
with, among other things, the responsibility to over see the enaction and 
enforcement of Federal law and policy. Claiming that the Federal 
government failed to properly respond to Katrina in a disasterous way is 
an inherently political claim because it goes to the heart of the duty of 
an elected official. No one is dumb enough to try to argue that we 
shouldn't criticize the response efforts so that this doesn't happen 
again, so there has to be political discussion. If this doesn't make sense 
or you disagree then stop reading now and go find an 8th grade social 
studies book.

Second, the primary platform of the GOP's 2002 midterm election strategy, 
2004 election strategy and Bush/Cheney '04 campaigns rested on the claim 
that Bush the GOP were the best (and only) people capable of adequately 
preparing America to respond to disaster. In 2002 this involved the 
discussion of the creation of the Homeland Security Department and 
reorganization of federal agencies under the authority of the new 
department, and 2004 was framed to be a referredum on the Bush 
Administration (and GOP congress') efforts to combat terrorism and prepare 
the country for disaster. 2 cycles of GOP election strategies, and the 
appointments of Chertoff and Brown (among others) were political 
manueverings using federal disaster response efforts as tools, and the 
response to Hurricane Katrina has shown the GOP's political claims to be 
false, or the administration to be a failure.

Any discussion around Katrina is inextricably tied to political 
conclusions. There is a significant difference between politically 
engaging the failed response to Katrina and using a tragic event such as 
this to support an unresponsive political effort (yes, that's an argument 
against Kennedy, Robertson, and even Grover Norquist's call for a repeal 
of the estate tax in response to Katrina). But, it is moronic and pathetic 
to decry criticism as "playing politics" as if it were a dirty and 
self-serving tactic to be outraged at what happened. Thousands of people 
died because of ineptitude in response, because FEMA repeated 
turned away help and supplies, because New Orleans wasn't 
evacuated, because FEMA "didn't know" that there were people at the 
convention center until 36 hours after I saw it on TV, because Bush 
grounded rescue helecopters so that he could use them in a photo-op, 
because Bush had fire fighters diverted from rescue efforts so that he 
could use them in a photo-op and more.

Bush and the GOP made political gain by claiming that they would make 
Americans safe and would lead in crisis. Bush knew for days that a 
hurricane was coming, and knew what threat it presented to the gulf coast; 
he didn't step up and take charge, he didn't monitor the response, he 
didn't even end his vacation.

This tragedy is beyond the scale of imagination, and nothing like it can 
ever be allowed to happen again. If this issue isn't made political then 
we are doomed.



peter mccollum


P.S. - I hate reading edebate, I promise not to make a habit of it




From miamidebate  Thu Sep  8 17:52:34 2005
From: miamidebate (Miami Debate Team)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] MI High School Coach and Wife Found Stabbed in Home - Prayers and support requested
Message-ID: <20050908225234.54325.qmail@web32110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Community Members -
 
My high school debate coach, Lloyd Smith Jr., and his wife Dorothy, were found stabbed in their home this morning.  Mrs. Smith was found dead, and Mr. Smith was found at her side, severly stabbed, by a family friend.  He has survived emergency surgery but remains in critical condition.  The police believe they were attacked by someone they know, as there was no sign of forced entry.  Despite being in their late 80s, the Smiths continued to take people who needed help into their home.  They provided housing for members of their church who needed it, and it is believed that one of those people are behind what has happened.
 
Mr. Smith was the policy debate coach at Farmington High School (MI) for 60 years, retiring at the age of 83 after the 2001 season.  I cannot even begin to imagine his influence on debate and speech in the state of Michigan.  The Mackinac Island Tournament that previews the new season in debate and forensics gives the Lloyd Smith trophy to the winner of its policy debate division.  I know he was heavily involved in the founding of both that tournament and the Michigan Speech Coaches, Inc.  This group has been instrumental in preserving speech and debate activities in the state, as well as adding new styles and events.  He was the band teacher at FHS for years.  He has touched so many lives along the way.
 
As far as I know, and as far as they knew, I am the only debater from FHS that went on to debate in college; but I am not the only one who was changed by the experience of debating for Farmington.  My life would not be the same, I would not have been as successful in high school, in college, and now in graduate school had I not met Mr. Smith and experienced debate.  While old in age, his enthusiasm was always unbeatable.  Upbeat, positive, supportive.  His wife was as much as part of the team as he was; she was the planner, and supported him more and more in the later years, as his health began to fail.
 
This is one of those times when I just cannot understand what part of God's plan allowed something this horrible, something this uncalled for to occur.  I have never and will never know two nicer people.  I ask the community for prayers and support; Mr. Smith's advanced age and poor health, combined with the passing of his wife, makes his recovery an uphill battle.  His wife is in a better place now, but I fear it happened before she was done doing good here on Earth.
 
Thanks for reading this,
 
Timothy Glass
FHS Debate Class of '01
Miami Class of '05

		
---------------------------------
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050908/8fcc1667/attachment.htm 


From frappier  Thu Sep  8 20:58:08 2005
From: frappier (Frappier, Glen)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:58:08 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] Paging U of Oregon
Message-ID: <36AE85DCADCA72409DD873C729D1AB9709BE934C@gem.gonzaga.edu>

If there is anyone out there even remotely in charge of the Oregon program, could you please email me.  Thanks.
 
Glen
 




From trond  Thu Sep  8 21:43:45 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:43:45 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about
In-Reply-To: <012f01c5b49a$a29404e0$6401a8c0@D3GVG561>
References: <20050908165737.60053.qmail@web50904.mail.yahoo.com>
	<012f01c5b49a$a29404e0$6401a8c0@D3GVG561>
Message-ID: <20050908224345.uard2jtb34co0k04@web.mail.umich.edu>

Several claims have been made on this list about how Americans view the
president in the wake of Katrina.

New Zogby:
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1020

"Bush Job Approval Hits 41%?All Time Low; Would Lose to Every Modern 
President;
Public Rates All Levels of Government Poorly in Katrina Handling; Red Cross
Rated Higher Than Federal Government, 69%-17% ?New Zogby America Poll

President Bush?s job approval rating took a hit in the wake of Hurricane
Katrina, dropping to a historic low of 41%, a new Zogby America poll reveals.
The same survey found the nation?s forty-third president would lose election
contests against all of his predecessors since Jimmy Carter.

The Zogby America survey of 1157 likely voters, conducted from September 6
through 7, 2005, has a margin of error of +/-2.9 percentage points."

Just go there are read the breakdowns.

Bush at a draw on WOT or struggle or whatever they call it now while negative
handling is 1.5-2.0 times positive on every other issue.  Every other 
issue. They conclude this represents a sharp reversal from 
stabilization pattenr on
some issues prior to recent events.  My friends, this is called tanking.

Apparently incompetence when you can't wrap yourself in the flag takes 
a toll. Make 2006 a Bush referendum.

Trond E. Jacobsen



Quoting Jeff Parcher <parcherj at mindspring.com>:

>> Besides, I think ABC news released a pole yesterday that shows that only 13%
>> of the nation things that what happened is soley Bush's fault. So, I 
>> guess I'm pretty
>> mainstream on this one.
>
> clearly something to brag about...
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Duane Hyland
>  To: Josh Hoe
>  Cc: alyse.kraus at gmail.com ; edebate
>  Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:57 PM
>  Subject: Re: [eDebate] something to think about
>
>
>  LOOK...I THINK W SHARES  A HEFTY PORTION OF THE BLAME HERE. Sorry, 
> oops, caps locks on...I'm not saying he doesnt....but what I'm saying 
> is that a far more honest, and accurate, assessment is that everyone 
> deserves blame - nobody, from the Mayor that didn't follow his own, 
> detailed, evacuation plan (all those school buses which should have 
> been used to move people were left to set there), to the Govenor who 
> may, or may not, have done what she was supposed to do, to the head 
> of FEMA (who strikes me as a bit out of his element), to Bush.
>
>  Bush is just one of many people who get the blame. Disaster response 
> is supposed to be a local and state thing first, then the feds. 
> Nobody - local, state, the feds, did what they were supposed to do.
>
>  Say what you want to about Bush - and there's plenty to be said - 
> but you can't simply set there and say it was totally his fault, and 
> expect me to think you're being anything but partisian. I'm the most 
> hardbitten conservative on this list, and y'all know what I think 
> about Bush, but I'll even say he screwed this one up - as long as its 
> understood that I think several other people did as well.
>
>  Besides, I think ABC news released a pole yesterday that shows that 
> only 13% of the nation things that what happened is soley Bush's 
> fault. So, I guess I'm pretty mainstream on this one.
>
>  Duane
>
>
>
>  "You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
>
>  "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person 
> were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in 
> silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in 
> silencing mankind. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the 
> opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what 
> is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier 
> impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. 
> Mill
>
>  __________________________________________________
>  Do You Yahoo!?
>  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>  http://mail.yahoo.com
>





From rob.eback  Thu Sep  8 23:28:59 2005
From: rob.eback (Rob Eback)
Date: Fri,  9 Sep 2005 00:28:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Looking for Justin Skarb
Message-ID: <20050909042859.A80D4122EB@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>

If any of you are him or know how I might get a hold of him that would be sweet to know.

Thanks y'all,

Rob Eback
West Georgia

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!





From les_phillips98  Fri Sep  9 05:50:15 2005
From: les_phillips98 (Les Phillips)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 03:50:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Playing politics with Katrina
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0509081335090.25430@barney.gonzaga.edu>
Message-ID: <20050909105015.70114.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com>

Bravo, Peter.  

And I'd like to add something.  The folks who say "let's not criticize the
relief effort or the federal government or the President while people are
dying" are mostly well meaning, I think.  But to create a moratorium on
political discussion is, in itself, a political action.  Which, in turn, will
be manipulated by the administration in blatantly, hideously political ways.  

In this context, there is simply no such thing as "not playing politics."  

Les


--- Peter McCollum <porlermc at gonzaga.edu> wrote:

> 
> Once again I'm cleaning out this old email account inbox and asking myself 
> why the fuck haven't I unsubscribed from edebate. But now I just can't 
> help myself. Korcok, you're a moron, do you think about this stuff before 
> you start writing, or does your keyboard have dysentary? Whatever.
> 
> I didn't really bother to read all of the posts, but I'm pretty confident 
> that Slusher shut down the claims that Bush and the White House aren't 
> playing politics with this, but I want to reiterate some of my favorites.
> 
> What the White House did: Gave the press an unattributed quote from a 
> senior official claiming that Gov. Blanco didn't declare a state of 
> emergency, thereby giving the unmistakable impression that it was the 
> state/local (Democrats) fault.
> What other information would have been helpful: Knowing that this was, in 
> fact, a lie.
> Why?: Playing politics
> Was this Bush "defending" himself: No
> 
> What Bush did: Held a photo-op playing up the success and "hard work" of 
> the rescue efforts in Mississippi while standing in front of first 
> responders and 2 Coast Guard helecopters.
> What other information would have been helpful: Ummm... the helecopters 
> were at a photo-op for the President rather than out rescuing people.
> Why?: Playing politics
> Was this Bush "defending" himself: No
> Also, Bush's political efforts cost people their lives. There is nothing 
> forgivable about that.
> 
> 
> This much has been covered by other people, but I want to also break some 
> new ground. Korcok wrote that the distinction between 9/11 and Katrina was 
> that 9/11 was a political attack which demanded a political response. I 
> think that there 2 aspects of this issue that should be brutally obvious 
> to everyone:
> 
> First, Bush holds a political office, his election to which charged him 
> with, among other things, the responsibility to over see the enaction and 
> enforcement of Federal law and policy. Claiming that the Federal 
> government failed to properly respond to Katrina in a disasterous way is 
> an inherently political claim because it goes to the heart of the duty of 
> an elected official. No one is dumb enough to try to argue that we 
> shouldn't criticize the response efforts so that this doesn't happen 
> again, so there has to be political discussion. If this doesn't make sense 
> or you disagree then stop reading now and go find an 8th grade social 
> studies book.
> 
> Second, the primary platform of the GOP's 2002 midterm election strategy, 
> 2004 election strategy and Bush/Cheney '04 campaigns rested on the claim 
> that Bush the GOP were the best (and only) people capable of adequately 
> preparing America to respond to disaster. In 2002 this involved the 
> discussion of the creation of the Homeland Security Department and 
> reorganization of federal agencies under the authority of the new 
> department, and 2004 was framed to be a referredum on the Bush 
> Administration (and GOP congress') efforts to combat terrorism and prepare 
> the country for disaster. 2 cycles of GOP election strategies, and the 
> appointments of Chertoff and Brown (among others) were political 
> manueverings using federal disaster response efforts as tools, and the 
> response to Hurricane Katrina has shown the GOP's political claims to be 
> false, or the administration to be a failure.
> 
> Any discussion around Katrina is inextricably tied to political 
> conclusions. There is a significant difference between politically 
> engaging the failed response to Katrina and using a tragic event such as 
> this to support an unresponsive political effort (yes, that's an argument 
> against Kennedy, Robertson, and even Grover Norquist's call for a repeal 
> of the estate tax in response to Katrina). But, it is moronic and pathetic 
> to decry criticism as "playing politics" as if it were a dirty and 
> self-serving tactic to be outraged at what happened. Thousands of people 
> died because of ineptitude in response, because FEMA repeated 
> turned away help and supplies, because New Orleans wasn't 
> evacuated, because FEMA "didn't know" that there were people at the 
> convention center until 36 hours after I saw it on TV, because Bush 
> grounded rescue helecopters so that he could use them in a photo-op, 
> because Bush had fire fighters diverted from rescue efforts so that he 
> could use them in a photo-op and more.
> 
> Bush and the GOP made political gain by claiming that they would make 
> Americans safe and would lead in crisis. Bush knew for days that a 
> hurricane was coming, and knew what threat it presented to the gulf coast; 
> he didn't step up and take charge, he didn't monitor the response, he 
> didn't even end his vacation.
> 
> This tragedy is beyond the scale of imagination, and nothing like it can 
> ever be allowed to happen again. If this issue isn't made political then 
> we are doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> peter mccollum
> 
> 
> P.S. - I hate reading edebate, I promise not to make a habit of it
> 
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
> 


*******************************

The guy who runs this building I?m in, Emergency Management, he?s responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home and every day she called him and said, ?Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?? and he said, ?Yeah, Mama, somebody?s coming to get you.? Somebody?s coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody?s coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody?s coming to get you on Thursday. Somebody?s coming to get you on Friday
 And she drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night! [Sobbing] Nobody?s coming to get us. Nobody?s coming to get us . . . 


IWLAIWDFY

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 




From SSbauschard2  Fri Sep  9 07:10:39 2005
From: SSbauschard2 (SSbauschard2 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:10:39 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] something to think about -- Interesting NYT Article
Message-ID: <141.4ce6d76c.3052d5bf@aol.com>

September 9, 2005
Political Issues Snarled Plans for Troop Aid
By ERIC LIPTON, ERIC SCHMITT
and THOM SHANKER
WASHINGTON, Sept. 8 - As New Orleans descended into chaos last week and 
Louisiana's governor asked for 40,000 soldiers, President Bush's senior advisers 
debated whether the president should speed the arrival of active-duty troops by 
seizing control of the hurricane relief mission from the governor.
For reasons of practicality and politics, officials at the Justice Department 
and the Pentagon, and then at the White House, decided not to urge Mr. Bush 
to take command of the effort. Instead, the Washington officials decided to 
rely on the growing number of National Guard personnel flowing into Louisiana, 
who were under Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco's control. 
The debate began after officials realized that Hurricane Katrina had exposed 
a critical flaw in the national disaster response plans created after the 
Sept. 11 attacks. According to the administration's senior domestic security 
officials, the plan failed to recognize that local police, fire and medical 
personnel might be incapacitated.
As criticism of the response to Hurricane Katrina has mounted, one of the 
most pointed questions has been why more troops were not available more quickly 
to restore order and offer aid. Interviews with officials in Washington and 
Louisiana show that as the situation grew worse, they were wrangling with 
questions of federal/state authority, weighing the realities of military logistics 
and perhaps talking past each other in the crisis. 
To seize control of the mission, Mr. Bush would have had to invoke the 
Insurrection Act, which allows the president in times of unrest to command 
active-duty forces into the states to perform law enforcement duties. But decision 
makers in Washington felt certain that Ms. Blanco would have resisted surrendering 
control, as Bush administration officials believe would have been required to 
deploy active-duty combat forces before law and order had been 
re-established. 
While combat troops can conduct relief missions without the legal authority 
of the Insurrection Act, Pentagon and military officials say that no 
active-duty forces could have been sent into the chaos of New Orleans on Wednesday or 
Thursday without confronting law-and-order challenges.
But just as important to the administration were worries about the message 
that would have been sent by a president ousting a Southern governor of another 
party from command of her National Guard, according to administration, 
Pentagon and Justice Department officials. 
"Can you imagine how it would have been perceived if a president of the 
United States of one party had pre-emptively taken from the female governor of 
another party the command and control of her forces, unless the security situation 
made it completely clear that she was unable to effectively execute her 
command authority and that lawlessness was the inevitable result?" asked one senior 
administration official, who spoke anonymously because the talks were 
confidential.
Officials in Louisiana agree that the governor would not have given up 
control over National Guard troops in her state as would have been required to send 
large numbers of active-duty soldiers into the area. But they also say they 
were desperate and would have welcomed assistance by active-duty soldiers.
"I need everything you have got," Ms. Blanco said she told Mr. Bush last 
Monday, after the storm hit. 
In an interview, she acknowledged that she did not specify what sorts of 
soldiers. "Nobody told me that I had to request that," Ms. Blanco said. "I thought 
that I had requested everything they had. We were living in a war zone by 
then." 
By Wednesday, she had asked for 40,000 soldiers.
In the discussions in Washington, also at issue was whether active-duty 
troops could respond faster and in larger numbers than the Guard. 
By last Wednesday, Pentagon officials said even the 82nd Airborne, which has 
a brigade on standby to move out within 18 hours, could not arrive any faster 
than 7,000 National Guard troops, which are specially trained and equipped for 
civilian law enforcement duties. 
In the end, the flow of thousands of National Guard soldiers, especially 
military police, was accelerated from other states. 
"I was there. I saw what needed to be done," Lt. Gen. H Steven Blum, chief of 
the National Guard Bureau, said in an interview. "They were the fastest, 
best-capable, most appropriate force to get there in the time allowed. And that's 
what it's all about."
But one senior Army officer expressed puzzlement that active-duty troops were 
not summoned sooner, saying 82nd Airborne troops were ready to move out from 
Fort Bragg, N.C., on Sunday, the day before the hurricane hit.
The call never came, administration officials said, in part because military 
officials believed Guard troops would get to the stricken region faster and 
because administration civilians worried that there could be political fallout 
if federal troops were forced to shoot looters. 
Louisiana officials were furious that there was not more of a show of force, 
in terms of relief supplies and troops, from the federal government in the 
middle of last week. As the water was rising in New Orleans, the governor 
repeatedly questioned whether Washington had started its promised surge of federal 
resources. 
"We needed equipment," Ms. Blanco said in an interview. "Helicopters. We got 
isolated."
Aides to Ms. Blanco said she was prepared to accept the deployment of 
active-duty military officials in her state. But she and other state officials balked 
at giving up control of the Guard as Justice Department officials said would 
have been required by the Insurrection Act if those combat troops were to be 
sent in before order was restored.
In a separate discussion last weekend, the governor also rejected a more 
modest proposal for a hybrid command structure in which both the Guard and 
active-duty troops would be under the command of an active-duty, three-star general - 
but only after he had been sworn into the Louisiana National Guard.
Lt. Gen. James T. Conway, director of operations for the military's Joint 
Chiefs of Staff, said that the Pentagon in August streamlined a rigid, 
decades-old system of deployment orders to allow the military's Northern Command to 
dispatch liaisons to work with local officials before an approaching hurricane. 
The Pentagon is reviewing events from the time Hurricane Katrina reached full 
strength and bore down on New Orleans and five days later when Mr. Bush 
ordered 7,200 active-duty soldiers and marines to the scene.
After the hurricane passed New Orleans and the levees broke, flooding the 
city, it became increasingly evident that disaster-response efforts were badly 
bogged down.
Justice Department lawyers, who were receiving harrowing reports from the 
area, considered whether active-duty military units could be brought into relief 
operations even if state authorities gave their consent - or even if they 
refused.
The issue of federalizing the response was one of several legal issues 
considered in a flurry of meetings at the Justice Department, the White House and 
other agencies, administration officials said.
Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales urged Justice Department lawyers to 
interpret the federal law creatively to help local authorities, those officials 
said. For example, federal prosecutors prepared to expand their enforcement of 
some criminal statutes like anti-carjacking laws that can be prosecuted by 
either state or federal authorities.
On the issue of whether the military could be deployed without the invitation 
of state officials, the Office of Legal Counsel, the unit within the Justice 
Department that provides legal advice to federal agencies, concluded that the 
federal government had authority to move in even over the objection of local 
officials.
This act was last invoked in 1992 for the Los Angeles riots, but at the 
request of Gov. Pete Wilson of California, and has not been invoked over a 
governor's objections since the civil rights era - and before that, to the time of the 
Civil War, administration officials said. Bush administration, Pentagon and 
senior military officials warned that such an extreme measure would have 
serious legal and political implications. 
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has said deployment of National Guard 
soldiers to Iraq, including a brigade from Louisiana, did not affect the relief 
mission, but Ms. Blanco disagreed. 
"Over the last year, we have had about 5,000 out, at one time," she said. 
"They are on active duty, serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. That certainly is a 
factor." 
By Friday, National Guard reinforcements had arrived, and a truck convoy of 
1,000 Guard soldiers brought relief supplies - and order - to the convention 
center area. 
Officials from the Department of Homeland Security say the experience with 
Hurricane Katrina has demonstrated flaws in the nation's plans to handle 
disaster.
"This event has exposed, perhaps ultimately to our benefit, a deficiency in 
terms of replacing first responders who tragically may be the first 
casualties," Paul McHale, the assistant secretary of defense for domestic security, said.
Michael Chertoff, the secretary of homeland security, has suggested that 
active-duty troops be trained and equipped to intervene if front-line emergency 
personnel are stricken. But the Pentagon's leadership remains unconvinced that 
this plan is sound, suggesting instead that the national emergency response 
plans be revised to draw reinforcements initially from civilian police, 
firefighters, medical personnel and hazardous-waste experts in other states not 
affected by a disaster.
The federal government rewrote its national emergency response plan after the 
Sept. 11 attacks, but it relied on local officials to manage any crisis in 
its opening days. But Hurricane Katrina overwhelmed local "first responders," 
including civilian police and the National Guard.
At a news conference on Saturday, Mr. Chertoff said, "The unusual set of 
challenges of conducting a massive evacuation in the context of a still dangerous 
flood requires us to basically break the traditional model and create a new 
model, one for what you might call kind of an ultra-catastrophe.""
Eric Schmitt and Thom Shanker reported from Washington for this article, and 
Eric Lipton from Baton Rouge, La. David Johnston contributed reporting.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/86b30a84/attachment.html 


From debate  Fri Sep  9 08:23:29 2005
From: debate (debate at ou.edu)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:23:29 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Oh no, racism still exists?
Message-ID: <74f0f3a52b8.43214681@ou.edu>

Just a reflection of society that some may be shielded from.

>From Oklahoma News Station, Channel 5

A camera-person went to New Orleans to video the scene.  Was assisted by a Tulsa police officer, and went into one of the wal-mart stores that was looted.  Local police officer says

"the only thing they left was school supplies. Go figure"
"they scavaged the store like animals"

Now, switch over to the people who were forced to leave home. The reports from New Orleans, combined with a legacy of racism resulted in this scenario.   Falls Creek, a baptist youth camp in Oklahoma, offered to house around 500 people.  The National Guard and Oklahoma Highway Patrol was ready to search every person and their belongings when the busses arrived.  The only time people would be searched entering the premises in the history of the site, while thousands vist there every summer.  The searches are not "illegal", but obviously not the normal procedure for people staying on the premises.
What is white privilege?

This is an area where most all the black people live in one or two small towns away from the offical city's.  

Also, the local people did not want the evacuees staying there because of their fear of crime and dependency.

This is real.  The people are real.  I hope everyone comes to the realization that challenging problems of racism, sexism, classism and homophobia  must occur on a day to day basis, as we engage people in our lives ouside of debate rounds.


the strugggle for a fair world is not over for so many people in our own nation....






From privethedge  Fri Sep  9 08:31:39 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 06:31:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] DC Area Colleges/Universities Hosting High School Tournaments this Season
Message-ID: <20050909133140.78589.qmail@web50910.mail.yahoo.com>

 If you are a college or University hosting a high school debate invitaitonal this season, please try to get me the dates (and some information - like divisions you'll have) by this evening 9/9. The WACFL coaches meeting is tomorrow morning, and if you can get me this information, it will reach about 60 high schools in the DC Metropolitian area. Were all looking for debate oppurutnities, help us out and let us know if you are having a tournament to which we can come.
 
Thanks,
 
Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








		
---------------------------------
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/c5183348/attachment.htm 


From michellekelsey1313  Fri Sep  9 09:55:35 2005
From: michellekelsey1313 (Michelle Kelsey)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:55:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] 8 rounds of judging at UNI
Message-ID: <20050909145536.38937.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com>

I am available to judge 8 rounds at the UNI tournament.  We are not sending teams but I am heading up there. Let me know if you are in need of hiring out rounds!
 
 
Michelle Kelsey
Illinois State University Debate


Michelle L Kelsey 
Graduate Teaching Assistant 
Assitant Debate Coach 
Illinois State University 
309-530-1517
 
 
Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. 
Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. 
Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. 
And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.
 -- Thomas J. Watson
 

 


		
---------------------------------
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/8da717c8/attachment.html 


From mmk_savant  Fri Sep  9 10:50:25 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:50:25 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans McCollum
Message-ID: <BAY101-F235E93CDA6B25B9C32CCDCE4980@phx.gbl>

you promised to move to France if Bush won re-election.  Bush won 
re-election.

just slow?

this democracy cannot continue to function if the Northeast Regional 
Coordinator of the John Kerry for President campaign promises to leave the 
country in shame and disgust unless his master wins and then doesn't.

tell you what... you go ahead and read the responses then get back to us 
once you aren't blithering, ok?  once you are settled in Lyons or 
wherever...

Michael Korcok





From ferrits  Fri Sep  9 11:00:18 2005
From: ferrits (Joe Schatz)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:00:18 +0800
Subject: [eDebate] kings judging as well
Message-ID: <20050909160019.5B1BF102FD6@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com>

binghamton is also looking for 1-2 judges at kings if anyone's available.

joe schatz
director of debate at binghamton university
vice president of atuu international aid
campaigns coordinator of the binghamton/vestal vegan society


-- 
_______________________________________________
Come to http://www.sailormoon.com the sailormoon friends & fan community where you get chat, e-mail and can even build your own homepages!

Powered by Outblaze




From porlermc  Fri Sep  9 12:14:14 2005
From: porlermc (Peter McCollum)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:14:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] ans McCollum
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F235E93CDA6B25B9C32CCDCE4980@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F235E93CDA6B25B9C32CCDCE4980@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0509090959030.3562@barney.gonzaga.edu>

I assume that Korcok's allegation here is that I work with political 
interests that oppose Bush so my arguments can't be valid. While 
shockingly stupid, this argument is also irrelevant - The failed response 
to Katrina killed thousands and their needs to be an understanding of the 
intersection between the failed response and the political strategy of the 
Bush White House and the GOP.

France? Yeah... I didn't actually never said that. Anyone who knows me 
also knows that's an unlikely statement from me since I dislike the French 
slightly less than I hate the f-ing New York Yankees. A quick scan of the 
edebate archives shows that I did actually say that I would move to 
Australia if Howard Dean got the Democratic nomination, and thank God that 
didn't happen. Also, thanks for the boost in job title, but I left the 
Kerry campaign over a year and a half ago.

If you're going to promise to keep the homeland secure then maybe, you 
know, you should tell people that by "homeland" you meant "crawford"


peter mccollum

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Michael Korcok wrote:

> you promised to move to France if Bush won re-election.  Bush won 
> re-election.
>
> just slow?
>
> this democracy cannot continue to function if the Northeast Regional 
> Coordinator of the John Kerry for President campaign promises to leave the 
> country in shame and disgust unless his master wins and then doesn't.
>
> tell you what... you go ahead and read the responses then get back to us once 
> you aren't blithering, ok?  once you are settled in Lyons or wherever...
>
> Michael Korcok
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
>

-- 




From stannardmatt  Fri Sep  9 12:40:58 2005
From: stannardmatt (matt stannard)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:40:58 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] Oh no, racism still exists?
In-Reply-To: <74f0f3a52b8.43214681@ou.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F267EA7E4BABCF5348946FBD2980@phx.gbl>

It gets even worse.

[from the Washington Wire, by John Harwood, in today's WSJ]

Rep. Baker of Baton Rouge is overheard telling lobbyists: "We finally 
cleaned up public housing in
New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did."

Disgusting, dangerous, incipient theological fascism.

stannard



>From: debate at ou.edu
>To: edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: [eDebate] Oh no, racism still exists?
>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:23:29 -0500
>
>
>Just a reflection of society that some may be shielded from.
>
>From Oklahoma News Station, Channel 5
>
>A camera-person went to New Orleans to video the scene.  Was assisted by a 
>Tulsa police officer, and went into one of the wal-mart stores that was 
>looted.  Local police officer says
>
>"the only thing they left was school supplies. Go figure"
>"they scavaged the store like animals"
>
>Now, switch over to the people who were forced to leave home. The reports 
>from New Orleans, combined with a legacy of racism resulted in this 
>scenario.   Falls Creek, a baptist youth camp in Oklahoma, offered to house 
>around 500 people.  The National Guard and Oklahoma Highway Patrol was 
>ready to search every person and their belongings when the busses arrived.  
>The only time people would be searched entering the premises in the history 
>of the site, while thousands vist there every summer.  The searches are not 
>"illegal", but obviously not the normal procedure for people staying on the 
>premises.
>What is white privilege?
>
>This is an area where most all the black people live in one or two small 
>towns away from the offical city's.
>
>Also, the local people did not want the evacuees staying there because of 
>their fear of crime and dependency.
>
>This is real.  The people are real.  I hope everyone comes to the 
>realization that challenging problems of racism, sexism, classism and 
>homophobia  must occur on a day to day basis, as we engage people in our 
>lives ouside of debate rounds.
>
>
>the strugggle for a fair world is not over for so many people in our own 
>nation....
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>eDebate mailing list
>eDebate at ndtceda.com
>To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
>http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate





From debate.gsu  Fri Sep  9 12:51:30 2005
From: debate.gsu (Dr. Joe Bellon)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:51:30 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
Message-ID: <e06af37d0509091051c74cf4c@mail.gmail.com>

Mike Davis successfully defended his dissertation at the University of
Georgia yesterday. Congratulations to Mike, who has been working
(without pay) as an assistant debate coach and a Visiting Instructor
(with pay) at GSU for the past two years. Dr. Davis is truly a model
of good citizenship and commitment in the debate community.

-Joe Bellon




From maxwell.schnurer  Fri Sep  9 13:27:11 2005
From: maxwell.schnurer (Maxwell Schnurer)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:27:11 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] teaching guide to katrina
Message-ID: <cd6ac58d05090911274d8ee25a@mail.gmail.com>

Hey folks --
 For educators who are having a tough time working through the dimensions of 
Katrina, here is a link to a wonderful teaching guide. 
 http://www.nycore.org/katrina.html
 best, maxwell
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/4a3502c7/attachment.htm 


From anabaptist  Fri Sep  9 13:35:31 2005
From: anabaptist (Donald Bryson)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:35:31 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
Message-ID: <000501c5b56d$42429650$6401a8c0@Donald>

Amen to that Brother Bellon.  Mike really helped Piedmont Debate get on its (still wobbly) feet a couple of years ago.  Piedmont owes a lot to Mike and Alicia.  Congratulations Mike!


Donald Bryson
Piedmont College Debate
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/548b628f/attachment.html 


From berchnorto  Fri Sep  9 13:44:06 2005
From: berchnorto (NEIL BERCH)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:44:06 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
In-Reply-To: <e06af37d0509091051c74cf4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F240E2888532E3F4684D340D3980@phx.gbl>

What a year for Mike.  He also won the coveted Maxwell Schnurer Bowling 
Award at our tournament (trophy still to be delivered), and the Michael K. 
Davis Award in CEDA East was the subject of heated controversy on edebate.  
What more could he want?!  Congratulations, Dr. Mike!
--Neil Berch
West Virginia University


>From: "Dr. Joe Bellon" <debate.gsu at gmail.com>
>Reply-To: debate.gsu at gmail.com
>To: Edebate <edebate at ndtceda.com>
>Subject: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
>Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:51:30 -0400
>
>Mike Davis successfully defended his dissertation at the University of
>Georgia yesterday. Congratulations to Mike, who has been working
>(without pay) as an assistant debate coach and a Visiting Instructor
>(with pay) at GSU for the past two years. Dr. Davis is truly a model
>of good citizenship and commitment in the debate community.
>
>-Joe Bellon
>
>_______________________________________________
>eDebate mailing list
>eDebate at ndtceda.com
>To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
>http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate





From Samnelson4  Fri Sep  9 13:49:04 2005
From: Samnelson4 (Samnelson4 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:49:04 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
Message-ID: <1ed.43bffeb9.30533320@aol.com>

Mike truly has come a long way. I remember him as a novice debater at 
Syracuse back in the day. I believe my comments after judging him and his partner 
were something to the effect that they had just played a key role in the worst 
debate I had ever witnessed. The role they had played was that of the worst 
debaters in that historic debate. Despite my lack of encouragement, Mike has 
really turned out to be one of the great people in our community. I consider Mike 
one of my role models in debate. We need more unselfish role models like Mike 
Davis. Congrats Mike!

Sam Nelson,
Director of Forensics
Cornell University




From privethedge  Fri Sep  9 13:55:07 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:55:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] teaching guide to katrina
In-Reply-To: <cd6ac58d05090911274d8ee25a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050909185507.65617.qmail@web50913.mail.yahoo.com>

Good God..I've never read such a fair and bias free examination of the facts of a situation...at least not since the Cultural Revolution... Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








		
---------------------------------
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/c6f3b953/attachment.htm 


From Zompetti  Fri Sep  9 14:01:36 2005
From: Zompetti (Zompetti at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:01:36 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] teaching guide to katrina
Message-ID: <20e.8dc6348.30533610@aol.com>


Does anyone else find it interesting, if not ironic, that Duane's reaction to 
Maxwell's post is juxtaposed to the quotation from Mill below?  Usually 
people print quotes that they believe in, or, in this case, the quote answers 
Duane's knee-jerk reaction better than most of us could.



In a message dated 9/9/2005 1:58:13 PM Central Standard Time, 
privethedge at yahoo.com writes:

> Good God..I've never read such a fair and bias free examination of the 
> facts of a situation...at least not since the Cultural Revolution... Duane
> 
> 
> "You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
> 
>  "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of 
> the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that 
> person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind? If the 
> opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for 
> truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer 
> perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with 
> error." John S. Mill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/487eb433/attachment.html 


From kendog_3  Fri Sep  9 14:14:29 2005
From: kendog_3 (kenny hanson)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:14:29 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
In-Reply-To: <1ed.43bffeb9.30533320@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY21-F1504954B55A726FB72C4B7AF980@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/947e1dbd/attachment.htm 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  9 14:22:14 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:22:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] teaching guide to katrina
In-Reply-To: <20e.8dc6348.30533610@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20050909192214.87155.qmail@web50904.mail.yahoo.com>

So...I'm not allowed to say that something is biased? Did you actually read the work? I at least skimmed it before I wrote that. Now I'm reading it in depth. It certainly presents a very one way view of America - White, Men, and George Bush and his minions are evil and everyone else is good..lol. If you really need me to set down and go line by line, I can - just for old times sakes.
 
I mean, the crack about Dr. Rice shopping for shoes is an example...Will this organization teach their kids that the Secretary of State normally doesn't involve themselves in disaster recovery issues?  And..so what..she shopped for shoes? What's the point of including that?
 
Duane
 
 



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/374be0cc/attachment.html 


From jane.munksgaard  Fri Sep  9 14:27:21 2005
From: jane.munksgaard (Jane Munksgaard)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:27:21 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Independent account of conditions in New Orleans immediately following katrina
In-Reply-To: <1146.66.190.167.240.1126293219.squirrel@webmail.pitt.edu>
References: <1146.66.190.167.240.1126293219.squirrel@webmail.pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <fcc0f13c05090912273adcf3b@mail.gmail.com>

Thought people might be interested. 
 jm
 

>
>Two friends of mine-paramedics attending a conference-were trapped in
New Orleans by Hurricane Katrina. This is their eyewitness report. --PG
>
>Hurricane Katrina-Our Experiences
>
>Larry Bradshaw, Lorrie Beth Slonsky
>
>Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreen's
store at the corner of Royal and Iberville streets remained locked. The

>dairy display case was clearly visible through the widows. It was now 48
hours without electricity, running water, plumbing. The milk, yogurt,
and cheeses were beginning to spoil in the 90-degree heat. The owners
and managers had locked up the food, water, pampers, and
>prescriptions and fled the City. Outside Walgreen's windows, residents
and tourists grew increasingly thirsty and hungry.
>
>The much-promised federal, state and local aid never materialized and
the windows at Walgreen's gave way to the looters. There was an
>alternative. The cops could have broken one small window and
>distributed the nuts, fruit juices, and bottle water in an organized and
systematic manner. But they did not. Instead they spent hours playing
cat and mouse, temporarily chasing away the looters.
>
>We were finally airlifted out of New Orleans two days ago and arrived
home yesterday (Saturday). We have yet to see any of the TV coverage or

>look at a newspaper. We are willing to guess that there were no video
images or front-page pictures of European or affluent white tourists
looting the Walgreen's in the French Quarter.
>
>We also suspect the media will have been inundated with "hero" images of
the National Guard, the troops and the police struggling to help the
"victims"
>of the Hurricane. What you will not see, but what we witnessed,were the

>real heroes and sheroes of the hurricane relief
>effort: the working class of New Orleans. The maintenance workers who
used a fork lift to carry the sick and disabled. The engineers, who
rigged, nurtured and kept the generators running. The electricians who
improvised thick extension cords stretching over blocks to share the
little electricity we had in order to free cars stuck on rooftop parking
lots. Nurses who took over for mechanical ventilators and spent

>many hours on end manually forcing air into the lungs of unconscious
patients to keep them alive. Doormen who rescued folks stuck in
elevators.
>Refinery workers who broke into boat yards, "stealing" boats to rescue
their neighbors clinging to their roofs in flood waters. Mechanics who
helped hot-wire any car that could be found to ferry people out of the
City. And the food service workers who scoured the commercial kitchens
improvising communal meals for hundreds of those stranded.
>
>Most of these workers had lost their homes, and had not heard from
members of their families, yet they stayed and provided the only
infrastructure for the 20% of New Orleans that was not under water.
>
>On Day 2, there were approximately 500 of us left in the hotels in the
French Quarter. We were a mix of foreign tourists, conference attendees

>like ourselves, and locals who had checked into hotels for safety and
shelter from Katrina. Some of us had cell phone contact with family and

>friends outside of New Orleans. We were repeatedly told that all sorts
of resources including the National Guard and scores of buses were
pouring in to the City. The buses and the other resources must have been
invisible because none of us had seen them.
>
>We decided we had to save ourselves. So we pooled our money and came up

>with $25,000 to have ten buses come and take us out of the City. Those
who did not have the requisite $45.00 for a ticket were subsidized by
those who did have extra money. We waited for 48 hours for the buses,
spending the last 12 hours standing outside, sharing the limited water,
food, and clothes we had.
>We created a priority boarding area for the sick, elderly and new born
babies. We waited late into the night for the "imminent" arrival of the

>buses. The buses never arrived. We later learned that the minute the
arrived to the City limits, they were commandeered by the military.
>
>By day 4 our hotels had run out of fuel and water. Sanitation was
dangerously abysmal. As the desperation and despair increased, street
crime as well as water levels began to rise. The hotels turned us out
and locked their doors, telling us that the "officials" told us to
report to the convention center to wait for more buses. As we entered
the center of the City, we finally encountered the National Guard. The
Guards told us we would not be allowed into the Superdome as the City's

>primary shelter had descended into a humanitarian and health hellhole.
The guards further told us that the City's only other shelter, the
Convention Center, was also descending into chaos and squalor and that
the police were not allowing anyone else in. Quite naturally, we asked,

>"If we can't go to the only 2 shelters in the City, what was our
alternative?" The guards told us that that was our problem, and no they

>did not have extra water to give to us. This would be the start of our
numerous encounters with callous and hostile "law enforcement".
>
>We walked to the police command center at Harrah's on Canal Street and
were told the same thing, that we were on our own, and no they did not
have water to give us. We now numbered several hundred. We held a mass
meeting to decide a course of action. We agreed to camp outside the
police command post. We would be plainly visible to the media and would

>constitute a highly visible embarrassment to the City officials. The
police told us that we could not stay. Regardless, we began to settle in
and set up camp. In short order, the police commander came across the
street to address our group. He told us he had a solution: we should
walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway and cross the greater New Orleans
Bridge where the police had buses lined up to take us out of
the City.
>The crowed cheered and began to move. We called everyone back and
explained to the commander that there had been lots of misinformation
and wrong information and was he sure that there were buses waiting for

>us. The commander turned to the crowd and stated emphatically, "I swear

>to you that the buses are there."
>
>We organized ourselves and the 200 of us set off for the bridge with
great excitement and hope. As we marched pasted the convention center,
many locals saw our determined and optimistic group and asked where we
were headed. We told them about the great news. Families immediately
grabbed their few belongings and quickly our numbers doubled and then
doubled again. Babies in strollers now joined us, people using
>crutches, elderly clasping walkers and others people in wheelchairs. We

>marched the 2-3 miles to the freeway and up the steep incline to the
Bridge. It now began to pour down rain, but it did not dampen our
enthusiasm.
>
>As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across

>the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began
firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in
various directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us
inched forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in
>conversation. We told them of our conversation with the police
>commander and of the commander's assurances. The sheriffs informed us
there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get us to
move.
>
>We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as
there was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the

>West Bank was not going to become New Orleans and there would be no
Superdomes in their City. These were code words for if you are poor and

>black, you are not crossing the Mississippi River and you were not
getting out of New Orleans.
>
>Our small group retreated back down Highway 90 to seek shelter from the

>rain under an overpass. We debated our options and in the end decided to
build an encampment in the middle of the Ponchartrain Expressway on the
center divide, between the O'Keefe and Tchoupitoulas exits. We reasoned
we would be visible to everyone, we would have some security being on an
elevated freeway and we could wait and watch for the arrival of the yet
to be seen buses.
>
>All day long, we saw other families, individuals and groups make the
same trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the bridge, only to be
turned away. Some chased away with gunfire, others simply told no,
others to be verbally berated and humiliated. Thousands of New
>Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the City
on foot.
>Meanwhile, the only two City shelters sank further into squalor and
disrepair. The only way across the bridge was by vehicle. We saw workers
stealing trucks, buses, moving vans, semi-trucks and any car that could
be hotwired. All were packed with people trying to escape the misery New
Orleans had become.
>
>Our little encampment began to blossom. Someone stole a water delivery
truck and brought it up to us. Let's hear it for looting! A mile or so
down the freeway, an army truck lost a couple of pallets of C-rations on
a tight turn. We ferried the food back to our camp in shopping
carts.
>Now secure with the two necessities, food and water; cooperation,
community, and creativity flowered. We organized a clean up and hung
garbage bags from the rebar poles. We made beds from wood pallets and
cardboard. We designated a storm drain as the bathroom and the kids
built an elaborate enclosure for privacy out of plastic, broken
>umbrellas, and other scraps. We even organized a food recycling system
where individuals could swap out parts of C-rations (applesauce for
babies and candies for kids!).
>
>This was a process we saw repeatedly in the aftermath of Katrina. When

>individuals had to fight to find food or water, it meant looking out for
yourself only. You had to do whatever it took to find water for your
kids or food for your parents. When these basic needs were met, people
began to look out for each other, working together and
constructing a community.
>
>If the relief organizations had saturated the City with food and water
in the first 2 or 3 days, the desperation, the frustration and the
ugliness would not have set in.
>
>Flush with the necessities, we offered food and water to passing
families and individuals. Many decided to stay and join us. Our
>encampment grew to 80 or 90 people.
>
> From a woman with a battery powered radio we learned that the media
>was talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway, every relief and
news organizations saw us on their way into the City. Officials were
being asked what they were going to do about all those families living
up on the freeway? The officials responded they were going to take care
of us.
>Some of us got a sinking feeling. "Taking care of us" had an ominous
tone to it.
>
>Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was
correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of

>his patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the

>fucking freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades
to blow away our flimsy structures. As we retreated, the sheriff

>loaded up his truck with our food and water.
>
>Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law
enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or
>congealed into groups of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims"
they saw "mob" or "riot". We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay
together" was impossible because the agencies would force us into small

>atomized groups.
>
>In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and destroyed, we
>scattered once again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark,
we sought refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on

>Cilo Street. We were hiding from possible criminal elements but equally

>and definitely, we were hiding from the police and sheriffs with their
martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill policies.
>
>The next days, our group of 8 walked most of the day, made contact with

>New Orleans Fire Department and were eventually airlifted out by an
urban search and rescue team. We were dropped off near the airport and
managed to catch a ride with the National Guard. The two young
>guardsmen apologized for the limited response of the Louisiana guards.
They explained that a large section of their unit was in Iraq and that
meant they were shorthanded and were unable to complete all the tasks
they were assigned.
>
>We arrived at the airport on the day a massive airlift had begun. The
airport had become another Superdome. We 8 were caught in a press of
humanity as flights were delayed for several hours while George Bush
landed briefly at the airport for a photo op. After being evacuated on a
coast guard cargo plane, we arrived in San Antonio, Texas.
>
>There the humiliation and dehumanization of the official relief effort
continued. We were placed on buses and driven to a large field where we

>were forced to sit for hours and hours. Some of the buses did not have
air-conditioners. In the dark, hundreds if us were forced to share two
filthy overflowing porta-potties. Those who managed to make it out with

>any possessions (often a few belongings in tattered plastic bags) we
were subjected to two different dog-sniffing searches.
>
>Most of us had not eaten all day because our C-rations had been
>confiscated at the airport because the rations set off the metal
detectors. Yet, no food had been provided to the men, women, children,
elderly, disabled as they sat for hours waiting to be "medically
screened" to make sure we were not carrying any communicable diseases.
>
>This official treatment was in sharp contrast to the warm, heart-felt
reception given to us by the ordinary Texans. We saw one airline worker

>give her shoes to someone who was barefoot. Strangers on the street
offered us money and toiletries with words of welcome. Throughout, the
official relief effort was callous, inept, and racist. There was more
suffering than need be. Lives were lost that did not need to be lost.
_______________________________________________
>Mcw-bioethics mailing list
>Mcw-bioethics at mailman.mcw.edu
>http://mailman.mcw.edu/mailman/listinfo/mcw-bioethics
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/3891f786/attachment.htm 


From tara_l_tate  Fri Sep  9 14:29:20 2005
From: tara_l_tate (Tara Tate)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:29:20 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Seeking judges for The 2005 Glenbrooks
Message-ID: <BAY102-F4050DD741845CF3CE667E7A1980@phx.gbl>

The 2005 Glenbrooks Speech/Debate tournament is seeking hired judges for all 
its divisions (Policy, Lincoln-Douglas, Public Forum, Student Congress, and 
IEs) for November 19-21, 2005.  Public Forum, Student Congress, and the IE 
events will conclude on November 20.

Pay is negotiable...we have one day, two day, and three day contracts 
available.  Three day contracts are reserved for HIGHLY qualified judges to 
judge elimination rounds.

If you are interested in coming to the North Shore in November, please drop 
me an email.  This weekend is NOT on the Wake Forest college tournament 
weekend...it is on the NCA weekend (NCA ends on Saturday morning, 
however...you could still come in for the last part of the tournament).  We 
have *numerous* college coaches/debaters planning on coming to recruit and 
connect with the high school community that weekend.

We hope you can join us!

Tara Tate
Director of Debate, Glenbrook South





From Zompetti  Fri Sep  9 15:11:36 2005
From: Zompetti (Zompetti at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:11:36 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] teaching guide to katrina
Message-ID: <19f.3bb70fcf.30534678@aol.com>

I'm not saying it isn't biased (I doubt Maxwell would either).  The point is 
that multiple opinions are good, that is what your Mill quote is talking 
about.  Bashing the webpage just because it is "oh God, biased!" runs counter to 
Mill.

And, yes, I read the webpage...that wasn't the point.




In a message dated 9/9/2005 2:23:18 PM Central Standard Time, 
privethedge at yahoo.com writes:

> So...I'm not allowed to say that something is biased? Did you actually read 
> the work? I at least skimmed it before I wrote that. Now I'm reading it in 
> depth. It certainly presents a very one way view of America - White, Men, and 
> George Bush and his minions are evil and everyone else is good..lol. If you 
> really need me to set down and go line by line, I can - just for old times 
> sakes.
>   
> I mean, the crack about Dr. Rice shopping for shoes is an example...Will 
> this organization teach their kids that the Secretary of State normally doesn't 
> involve themselves in disaster recovery issues?  And..so what..she shopped 
> for shoes? What's the point of including that?
>   
> Duane
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/4de1c4b0/attachment.html 


From Marna.Weston  Fri Sep  9 15:26:23 2005
From: Marna.Weston (Weston, Marna)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:26:23 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
Message-ID: <23FA26BF4E76DC4E949B0D1A9E7BE123ABCC99@COMM-EX01.comm.ad.fsu.edu>


It couldn't have happened to a more deserving dude! Dr. Mike...keep on keeping on!
You are an inspiration brother. The Gators will still stomp the "Dawgs" in Jacksonville...but the aggregate I.Q. in Athens just climbed!  And seriously, with much love and respect, congrats Mike!

Marna 

-----Original Message-----
From: edebate-admin at ndtceda.com on behalf of kenny hanson
Sent: Fri 9/9/2005 3:14 PM
To: Samnelson4 at aol.com; debate.gsu at gmail.com; edebate at ndtceda.com
Subject: Re: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
 
Congrats Mike.  Mike was really the only one who ever supported me on the ridiculous Nano/Soc Counterplan back in the CEDA days.  Then Mike allowed me to move into his house and eat him out of house and home for a year. (I still think I owe him $100 7 years later)  Thanks Mike....good things really do happen to good people.



PEACE 

Kenny Hanson 

	________________________________

	From:  Samnelson4 at aol.com
	To:  debate.gsu at gmail.com, edebate at ndtceda.com
	Subject:  Re: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
	Date:  Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:49:04 EDT
	>Mike truly has come a long way. I remember him as a novice debater at
	>Syracuse back in the day. I believe my comments after judging him and his partner
	>were something to the effect that they had just played a key role in the worst
	>debate I had ever witnessed. The role they had played was that of the worst
	>debaters in that historic debate. Despite my lack of encouragement, Mike has
	>really turned out to be one of the great people in our community. I consider Mike
	>one of my role models in debate. We need more unselfish role models like Mike
	>Davis. Congrats Mike!
	>
	>Sam Nelson,
	>Director of Forensics
	>Cornell University
	>
	>_______________________________________________
	>eDebate mailing list
	>eDebate at ndtceda.com
	>To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
	>http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
	

_______________________________________________ eDebate mailing list eDebate at ndtceda.com To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here: http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/904a9895/attachment.htm 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  9 15:32:43 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:32:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] teaching guide to katrina
In-Reply-To: <cd6ac58d05090912545c79cf3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050909203243.66229.qmail@web50915.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, Max. You know that I support you on a great many matters! Gay Marriage activism, animal rights activism, etc. But, if you present biased material and tell me that I should endorse its use in the classroom, I think I would be less than honest with you if I didn't say "wow, this is biased and I'm not comfortable with it."
 
No, I don't have something that could be used today - so you got me on that count. But, when you're holding up the World Socialist Web Site as a credible source, I have to wonder - the World Socialist Web????? Come on. Is that what passes for critical scholarship in today's world - The USA Today (a source so bad that I tell my extempers to avoid it at all costs), the World Socialist Web Site? And a bunch of blogs? If I used Newsmax, or Free Republic, or Town Hall, to back a point, y'all would laugh at me and rightly so.  
 
Now,  I welcome all sorts of political views - to say I don't is wrong - as others on this list will testify  . However, if you want this used in a classroom don't you want a non-biased examination of the facts? I mean, if your goal is to spread your political beliefs, then this document certainly does that. But, if your goal is to present an unbiased look at the facts, absent of an agenda - then this document fails to do that - and you know it.
 
Do I think race matters? Duh... But not as much as you think it does. And, not enough to point out that the Secretary of State, and African American womyn, was shopping for shoes during a hurricane.
 
I look at New Orleans and see that 67% of the city was African American and tell myself, well that's why so many of the images we saw of people suffering, or, sadly, engaging in lawless behavior - were African American - because they are the people who live in the city. You look at it, at least it seems to me that you look this way, perhaps I'm wrong, and if I am, please correct me - and say "It's a conspriracy by the media to show African Americans as criminals and lawbreakers" 
 
Your guide, for instance, takes one set of captions from the AP and you extrapolate that in whites "find" things, while African Americans "loot" - one set of captions and you make totalizing statements about the overall portrayal of images in the media. Never considering that the editors at the AP perhaps edited the captions differently because the first one used the term "looting" and then they changed the caption to "find" later on - who knows. And, how do you know that the couple in that picture was White? I thought that race wasn't the color of our skins, but composed of several factors?  Perhaps they were hispanic? Perhaps they were white skinned, but identified themselves as another race - do you know? I don't. Did they check a box on some form?
 
Anyway - I don't want a back and forth on this. Your view is obviously right to you. And I won't say that it's the wrong view - because I'm not that way anymore. However, I will say, and you would probably agree, that the guide presents a very biased view of the facts in New Orleans, and strives to present a certain world view that you are in sympathy with. That's all I'm saying. Note, I didn't say "Max lies" or "Max should be rounded up and sent to Gitmo" -( In fact, Max, as you well know, when I saw you on TV that time in Pittsburgh, picketing the department store (Kaufmans, I forget which one) I was proud to say "that's Max, and that's something the guy really, really beleives in!"). So, don't jump - If this is how you see the facts, that's cool. I have no problem, and I'm not trying to silence you - You did good work on the  guide - it's just too biased for my taste, and it presents a world view that I disagree with - but so what? It's just me..lol....don't let my minsanthropic
 behavior stop you for a minute, you're a better activist that that!!:) Duane
 



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/6c8179ce/attachment.html 


From privethedge  Fri Sep  9 15:35:32 2005
From: privethedge (Duane Hyland)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:35:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] teaching guide to katrina
In-Reply-To: <19f.3bb70fcf.30534678@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20050909203532.87973.qmail@web50901.mail.yahoo.com>

Then, all I have done here is given you a chance to show others that Mill was right!!:) I have no problem with Max's work - outside that it is too biased for me, and not something that I would probably use - unless I was teaching a unit on the way political agendas are advanced - But, no..don't misunderstand me..ever since I saw news footage of Max picketing a Pittsburgh department store, I've really admired the guy - he stands for what he believes, and he doesn't apologize. I'll always admire that. My reaction wasn't at Max, it was the Guide. It was knee jerk after a skim..but deeper reading has confirmed my first impression. It just isn't for me - but if it helps others, that's great!
 
Duane



"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind
 If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill








		
---------------------------------
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/d06c8caf/attachment.htm 


From ewarner  Fri Sep  9 15:27:07 2005
From: ewarner (Ede Warner)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:27:07 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Dr. Mike
Message-ID: <s321b7fa.013@gwise.louisville.edu>

Base on my past experiences, I am comfortable in speaking for the entire University of Louisville Debate Society, including past alum's like Michael Lee, Sandra Webster, and Jonathan Westbrook, in saying we are proud and honored to say we have had a chance to cross paths with Dr. Michael Davis.  While lacking both in poker and video sports games, he excels in teaching debate, learning debate, and being someone you geniunely love being around.  His character, and his compassion, and his willingness to stay open-minded are just a few characteristics that define him.  His bad choice in sport teams (Yankees) is a negative we must overlook to love him, but we wish him all the best, because he deserves it.  Congrats again Mike.




From CowOfFlames  Fri Sep  9 15:42:51 2005
From: CowOfFlames (CowOfFlames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:42:51 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] How do I get off this mailing list?
Message-ID: <79.4d5c95c3.30534dcb@aol.com>

can someone help me out?
Jaipaul Rekhi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/551e9826/attachment.html 


From jbhdb8  Fri Sep  9 16:07:01 2005
From: jbhdb8 (Josh Hoe)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:07:01 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Sad News about great friends of debate
Message-ID: <f6ec14bb0509091407507589c0@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
 I have been thinking about if I should write this letter or not all day, 
 This morning Dana Deloach the wife of former long-running University of 
North Texas director of debate Mark Deloach passed away this morning from 
cancer. Dana was a former competitor for Arizona State University and a 
great great person. When I first moved to Denton Dana, in many ways, 
provided me a home away from home - she was always helpful and kind (in fact 
giving me a place to stay when I first arrived and a bed when I did not have 
one). Dana was a really special person in the University of North Texas and 
Arizona State families (where I also worked). Dana was a truly amazing and 
funny person. I remember so many great moments at the Deloach house in 
Denton.
 I worked with Mark as his assistant for many years and he is just a 
wonderful person. When I heard the news I was just devestated for him and 
for their young daughter Bella. 
 I cannot imagine what the Deloach family has been going through over the 
last few years as Dana faught the cancer. My only hope is that in passing 
she has found some peace.
 I have talked to Mark in the last few days and he seems as strong as a 
person can be in the circumstances but he is also very overwhelmed right 
now. If anyone wants to send a note to him send it to me and I will make 
sure it gets passed on to him. 
 While many of you on this list are too young to know Mark and Dana there 
are few better people that I know. My heart is with Mark and Bella today. 
 Josh
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050909/ff2f91fa/attachment.htm 


From dcbloomi  Fri Sep  9 17:26:25 2005
From: dcbloomi (Daniel Bloomingdale)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:26:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
In-Reply-To: <e06af37d0509091051c74cf4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050909222626.64171.qmail@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Congrats to Mike.  Mike was my student during his
senior year at Syracuse and he was a pleasure to work
with.  So this is wonderful news, even if it makes me
feel really old.

 

--- "Dr. Joe Bellon" <debate.gsu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mike Davis successfully defended his dissertation at
> the University of
> Georgia yesterday. Congratulations to Mike, who has
> been working
> (without pay) as an assistant debate coach and a
> Visiting Instructor
> (with pay) at GSU for the past two years. Dr. Davis
> is truly a model
> of good citizenship and commitment in the debate
> community.
> 
> -Joe Bellon
> 
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber
> list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
> 


I should like to be able to love my country and still love justice.      --Albert Camus




From tara_l_tate  Fri Sep  9 20:28:36 2005
From: tara_l_tate (Tara Tate)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 20:28:36 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Sad News about great friends of debate
In-Reply-To: <f6ec14bb0509091407507589c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY102-F21A9EAF2EE01C27B1C28B5A19B0@phx.gbl>

I can only echo the sentiments that Josh posted about Dana DeLoach...what a 
fantastic, fun person.  As a member of the UNT debate family, I can't really 
find any words that truly describe how saddened I am and what a devasting 
loss this is.

Mark was both the director of the program when I was a grad ass at UNT and 
my thesis director.    In my interactions with Mark over the two years I was 
at UNT, I always knew I made the right choice to be in Denton.  He supported 
me as an assistant and as an advisee fully and unconditionally.  Mark and 
Dana welcomed me with open arms to UNT and into their lives.   Anyone that 
knows Mark knows how deeply committed he is to his family.  I am saddened by 
Dana's passing and saddened by the loss that Mark and Bella, his 
six-year-old daughter, are experiencing.

Tara Tate
Glenbrook South debate


>From: Josh Hoe <jbhdb8 at gmail.com>
>Reply-To: jbhdb8 at gmail.com
>To: edebate <edebate at ndtceda.com>
>Subject: [eDebate] Sad News about great friends of debate
>Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:07:01 -0400
>
>Hello,
>  I have been thinking about if I should write this letter or not all day,
>  This morning Dana Deloach the wife of former long-running University of
>North Texas director of debate Mark Deloach passed away this morning from
>cancer. Dana was a former competitor for Arizona State University and a
>great great person. When I first moved to Denton Dana, in many ways,
>provided me a home away from home - she was always helpful and kind (in 
>fact
>giving me a place to stay when I first arrived and a bed when I did not 
>have
>one). Dana was a really special person in the University of North Texas and
>Arizona State families (where I also worked). Dana was a truly amazing and
>funny person. I remember so many great moments at the Deloach house in
>Denton.
>  I worked with Mark as his assistant for many years and he is just a
>wonderful person. When I heard the news I was just devestated for him and
>for their young daughter Bella.
>  I cannot imagine what the Deloach family has been going through over the
>last few years as Dana faught the cancer. My only hope is that in passing
>she has found some peace.
>  I have talked to Mark in the last few days and he seems as strong as a
>person can be in the circumstances but he is also very overwhelmed right
>now. If anyone wants to send a note to him send it to me and I will make
>sure it gets passed on to him.
>  While many of you on this list are too young to know Mark and Dana there
>are few better people that I know. My heart is with Mark and Bella today.
>  Josh





From kkuswa  Fri Sep  9 21:30:57 2005
From: kkuswa (Kuswa, Kevin)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 22:30:57 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Congratulations to Dr. Michael K. Davis
Message-ID: <12E81F39195C00468C4DE42509951D3804BCC8E5@castor.richmond.edu>

Much congrats to Dr. Davis!!  Having had a brief conversation with Mike about his work involving debate in the prison context, i assumed he was already a PhD--and that was years ago!  awesome stuff, mike.  all the support should be a good nudge for the many debate folks working hard on their dissertations.  ABD DOES NOT HAVE TO LAST FOREVER!  Spin it out--it's very worth it once you have started AND the more phds in debate or passing through debate, the better.  nice.
 
kevin




From trond  Fri Sep  9 21:32:07 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:32:07 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] They knew?
Message-ID: <20050909223207.wkxodetvz4gg0s40@web.mail.umich.edu>

They knew.

Not should have known.  Not signals got crossed.  Not worse than imagined.

They knew what it would do, they knew who would be hurt, they knew the locals
would be overwhelmed.  Then they said, or so it seems judging by their abysmal
performance, thanks for the model, we'll pass on devising a plan.

Trond E. Jacobsen

September 9, 2005

The Honorable Michael Chertoff
Secretary of Homeland Security
Department of Homeland Security
Washington, DC  20528

Dear Secretary Chertoff:

The House Committee on Government Reform has obtained from the Department of
Homeland Security a document describing the ?Scope of Work? of a contract
issued by the Federal Emergency Management Agency for the development of a
?Southeastern Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane Plan.?  We are writing to
request any plans and other documents that were developed under this contract.

FEMA?s Scope of Work contemplated that a private contractor, Innovative
Emergency Management, Inc. (IEM), would complete the work under the contract in
three stages.   ?Stage One? called for a simulation exercise involving FEMA and
the state of Louisiana that would ?feature a catastrophic hurricane striking
southeastern Louisiana.?   ?Stage Two? called for ?development of the full
catastrophic hurricane disaster plan.?   And ?Stage Three? involved unrelated
earthquake planning.

A task order issued under the contract called for IEM to execute ?Stage One?
between May 19 and September 30, 2004, at a cost of $518,284.   On June 3,
2004, IEM issued a press release announcing that it would ?lead the development
of a catastrophic hurricane disaster plan for Southeast Louisiana and the City
of New Orleans under a more than half a million dollar contract with the U.S.
Department of Homeland Security/Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).?  
A second task order issued on September 23, 2004, required IEM to ?complete the
development of the SE Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane plan.?    The cost of
this task order was $199,969.

The ?Background? section of the Scope of Work stated that ?the emergency
management community has long feared the occurrence of a catastrophic
disaster,? which the document describes as ?an event having unprecedented
levels of damage, casualties, dislocation, and disruption that would have
nationwide consequences and jeopardize national security.?   According to the
background discussion, the emergency management community was concerned that
?existing plans, policies, procedures and resources? would not be adequate to
address such a ?mega-disaster.?

According to the Scope of Work, the contact ?will assist FEMA, State, and local
government to enhance response planning activities and operations by focusing
on specific catastrophic disasters:  those disasters that by definition will
immediately overwhelm the existing disaster response capabilities of local,
State, and Federal Governments.?   With respect to southeastern Louisiana, the
specific ?catastrophic disaster? to be addressed was ?a slow-moving Category 3,
4, or 5 hurricane that 
 crosses New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain.?   The
Scope of Work explained:

Various hurricane studies suggest that a slow-moving Category 3 or almost any
Category 4 or 5 hurricane approaching Southeast Louisiana from the south could
severely damage the heavily populated Southeast portion of the state creating a
catastrophe with which the State would not be able to cope without massive help
from neighboring states and the Federal Government.

The Scope of Work further stated:  ?The Federal Emergency Management Agency
(FEMA) and the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness (LOEP) believe that
the gravity of the situation calls for an extraordinary level of advance
planning to improve government readiness to respond effectively to such an
event.?

The specific disaster scenario contemplated under the contract is strikingly
similar to the actual disaster caused by Hurricane Katrina.  The contract
envisioned that ?a catastrophic hurricane could result in significant numbers
of deaths and injuries, trap hundreds of thousands of people in flooded areas,
and leave up to one million people homeless.?   The Scope of Work expressly
directed the contractor to plan for the following specific conditions:

? ?Over one million people would evacuate from New Orleans.  Evacuees would
crowd shelters throughout Louisiana and adjacent states.?

? ?Hurricane surge would block highways and trap 300,000 to 350,000 persons in
flooded areas.  Storm surge of over 18 feet would overflow flood-protection
levees on the Lake Pontchartrain side of New Orleans.  Storm surge combined
with heavy rain could leave much of New Orleans under 14 to 17 feet of water. 
More than 200 square miles of urban areas would be flooded.?

? ?It could take weeks to ?de-water? (drain) New Orleans:  Inundated pumping
stations and damaged pump motors would be inoperable.  Flood-protection levees
would prevent drainage of floodwater.  Breaching the levees would be a
complicated and politically sensitive problem:  The Corps of Engineers may have
to use barges or helicopters to haul earthmoving equipment to open several
hundred feet of levee.?

? ?Rescue operations would be difficult because much of the area would be
reachable only by helicopters and boats.?

? ?Hospitals would be overcrowded with special-needs patients.  Backup
generators would run out of fuel or fail before patients could be moved
elsewhere.?

? ?The New Orleans area would be without electric power, food, potable water,
medicine, or transportation for an extended time period.?

? ?Damaged chemical plants and industries could spill hazardous materials.?

? ?Standing water and disease could threaten public health.?

? ?There would be severe economic repercussions for the state and region.?

? ?Outside responders and resources, including the Federal response personnel
and materials, would have difficulty entering and working in the affected
area.?

It appears that IEM completed the task order for ?Stage One,? the hurricane
simulation.  An exercise know as ?Hurricane Pam,? was conducted by FEMA and IEM
in July 2004, bringing together emergency officials from 50 parish, state,
federal, and volunteer organizations to simulate the conditions described above
and plan an emergency response.   As a result of the exercise, officials
reportedly developed proposals for handling debris removal, sheltering, search
and rescue, medical care, and schools.

It is not clear, however, what plans or draft plans, if any, IEM prepared to
complete ?Stage Two,? the development of the final catastrophic hurricane
disaster plan.  The task order for ?Stage Two? provided that the ?period of
performance? was September 23, 2004, to September 30, 2005.

The basis for the award of the planning work to IEM is also not indicated in the
documents we received.  The task orders were issued to IEM by FEMA under an
?Indefinite Delivery Vehicle? (IDV) contract between IEM and the General
Services Administration.  According to the Federal Procurement Data System,
FEMA received only one bid (from IEM) for the task orders.

The documents from the Department raise multiple questions about the contract
with IEM and the planning for a catastrophic hurricane in southeastern
Louisiana.  To help us understand these issues, we request that the Department
provide the following documents and information:

(1) Any documents relating to the ?Stage One? simulation exercise, including
documents prepared for exercise planners and participants, transcripts or
minutes of exercise proceedings, participant evaluations, and after action
reports;

(2) Any final or draft plans for a catastrophic hurricane in southeastern
Louisiana prepared under ?Stage Two? of the contract, including any final or
draft Catastrophic Hurricane Disaster Plan, Basic Plan Framework, Emergency
Support Function Annex, or Support Annex; and

(3) An explanation of the procurement procedures used in selecting IEM for the
contract and task orders, as well as a description of IEM?s qualifications and
the justification for selecting IEM.

We recognize that Department officials are engaged in ongoing relief efforts,
and we do not want to impair those efforts in any way.  For this reason, we
have tailored our request to the discrete set of documents and information set
forth above.  To expedite your response to this request, we have enclosed
copies of the Scope of Work, task orders, and other documents cited in this
letter.

Sincerely,



Rep. Tom Davis				Rep. Henry A. Waxman
Chairman				Ranking Minority Member

Enclosure

-footnotes don't surive pasting into web-mail but quotes in letter use these
sources as they appear in footnotes.

1. Federal Emergency Management Agency, Combined Catastrophic Plan for Southeast
Louisiana and the New Madrid Seismic Zone:  Scope of Work, p.2.
2. FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 7.
3. FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 2.
4. Contract Number GS10F0178L, BPA #HSFEHQ-04-A-0288, Task Order 1.
5. Press Release, IEM Team to Develop Catastrophic Hurricane Disaster Plan for
New Orleans & Southeast Louisiana (June 3, 2004) (online at
http://www.ieminc.com/Whats_New/Press_Releases/pressrelease060304_Catastrophic.htm).
6. Contract Number GS10F0178L, BPA #HSFEHQ-04-A-0288, Task Order
HSFEHQ-04-J-0002.
7. Id.
8. FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 4.
9. Id.
10.FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 1.
11.FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 5.
12.Id.
13.Id.
14.Id.
15.FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 6.
16.FEMA, Press Release, Hurricane Pam Exercise Concludes (July 23, 2004).
17.Id.
18.Contract Number GS10F0178L, BPA #HSFEHQ-04-A-0288, Task Order
HSFEHQ-04-J-0002.
19.Federal Procurement Data System, GSA Schedule GS10F0178L, February 15, 2001
(data obtained from FPDS on Sept. 8, 2005).
20.Federal Procurement Data System, FEMA Awards Referencing GSA Schedule
GS10F0178L (data obtained from FPDS on Sept. 8, 2005).




From parcherj  Fri Sep  9 22:10:09 2005
From: parcherj (Jeff Parcher)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 23:10:09 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans McCollum
References: <BAY101-F235E93CDA6B25B9C32CCDCE4980@phx.gbl> <Pine.LNX.4.63.0509090959030.3562@barney.gonzaga.edu>
Message-ID: <004b01c5b5b5$28508200$c6aefea9@D3GVG561>

mcCollum 7
korock zip
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter McCollum" <porlermc at gonzaga.edu>
To: "Michael Korcok" <mmk_savant at hotmail.com>
Cc: <edebate at ndtceda.com>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [eDebate] ans McCollum


>
> I assume that Korcok's allegation here is that I work with political 
> interests that oppose Bush so my arguments can't be valid. While 
> shockingly stupid, this argument is also irrelevant - The failed response 
> to Katrina killed thousands and their needs to be an understanding of the 
> intersection between the failed response and the political strategy of the 
> Bush White House and the GOP.
>
> France? Yeah... I didn't actually never said that. Anyone who knows me 
> also knows that's an unlikely statement from me since I dislike the French 
> slightly less than I hate the f-ing New York Yankees. A quick scan of the 
> edebate archives shows that I did actually say that I would move to 
> Australia if Howard Dean got the Democratic nomination, and thank God that 
> didn't happen. Also, thanks for the boost in job title, but I left the 
> Kerry campaign over a year and a half ago.
>
> If you're going to promise to keep the homeland secure then maybe, you 
> know, you should tell people that by "homeland" you meant "crawford"
>
>
> peter mccollum
>
> On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Michael Korcok wrote:
>
>> you promised to move to France if Bush won re-election.  Bush won 
>> re-election.
>>
>> just slow?
>>
>> this democracy cannot continue to function if the Northeast Regional 
>> Coordinator of the John Kerry for President campaign promises to leave 
>> the country in shame and disgust unless his master wins and then doesn't.
>>
>> tell you what... you go ahead and read the responses then get back to us 
>> once you aren't blithering, ok?  once you are settled in Lyons or 
>> wherever...
>>
>> Michael Korcok
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> eDebate mailing list
>> eDebate at ndtceda.com
>> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
>> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
>>
>
> -- 
>
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
> 





From tlyden  Sat Sep 10 07:11:16 2005
From: tlyden (todd lyden)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:11:16 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] They ALL knew?
In-Reply-To: <20050909223207.wkxodetvz4gg0s40@web.mail.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F544CF2668597CE01E099DC19B0@phx.gbl>

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf

The Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan is
intended to provide a framework within which the parishes can coordinate
their actions with State government in order to deal with a catastrophic
hurricane.
A catastrophic hurricane is defined as a hurricane in Category 3 Slow (5 mph
or less forward speed), and categories 4 or 5 on the Saffir-Simpson Scale of
hurricane strength (See Annex A). Hurricanes in Category 1, 2 and 3 Fast,
are considered less destructive and can be met through the use of normal
emergency preparedness procedures on the part of the Parish and State
governments.
The overall strategy for dealing with a catastrophic hurricane is to 
evacuate as
much of the at risk population as possible from the path of the storm and
relocate them to a place of relative safety outside the projected high water
mark of the storm surge flooding and hurricane force winds.

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/evacinfo/stateevacrtes.htm

A. SITUATIONS
1. The Greater New Orleans Metropolitan Area represents a difficult
evacuation problem due to the large population and it?s unique layout.
2. This area is located in a floodplain much of which lies below sea level
and is surrounded by an extensive marine estuarine system of lakes,
canals, bayous, the Gulf of Mexico and the Mississippi River. Some
parish storm drainage systems discharge into area waterways. High
water levels would impede adequate pumping and prevent relief against
flooding from heavy rainfall.
3. Tidal surge, associated with the "worst case" Category 3, 4 or 5
Hurricane Scenario for the Greater New Orleans Metropolitan Area, as
determined by the National Weather Service (NWS) Sea, Lake and
Overland Surge from Hurricanes (SLOSH) Model, could cause a
maximum inundation of 20 feet above sea level in some of the parishes
in the Region, not including tidal effects, wind waves and storm rainfall.
4. The Area is protected by an extensive levee system, but above-normal
water levels and hurricane surge could cause levee overtopping or
failures.
5. It will take a long time to evacuate large numbers of people from the
Region.
6. The road systems used for evacuations are limited, and many of the
roadways are near bodies of water and susceptible to flooding.
7. The combined population of the Region is approximately 1,694,805
(1990 Census, as amended July 1, 1999), of whom the majority are at
risk from a hurricane (Annex C).
8. Many of the Region's emergency shelter facilities may be inundated by
floodwaters when threatened by a slow moving Category 3 or above
hurricane. Sheltering of evacuees outside of the Region becomes
necessary.
9. In most emergencies the number of persons needing public shelter will
be limited. In the event of a catastrophic hurricane, however, the
evacuation of over a million people from the Southeast Region could
overwhelm normally available shelter resources.

The organization and assignment of primary and secondary responsibilities
are detailed in the State Emergency Operations Plan (EOP). Listed below are
the key participants and their roles in the event of a catastrophic 
hurricane:
1. Governor:
a. Proclaim a State of Emergency.
b. Issue supplementary declarations and orders, as the situation
requires.
c. Authorize and direct the use of State government personnel and
other resources to deal with the emergency.
d. Authorize and direct the authorities of non-risk parishes to
coordinate the opening and operation of shelters with DSS in
conjunction with ARC, and to lend all possible assistance to the
evacuation and shelter effort.
e. Request Federal government assistance as needed.

----Original Message Follows----
From: trond at umich.edu
To: edebate at ndtceda.com
Subject: [eDebate] They knew?
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:32:07 -0400

They knew.

Not should have known.  Not signals got crossed.  Not worse than imagined.

They knew what it would do, they knew who would be hurt, they knew the 
locals
would be overwhelmed.  Then they said, or so it seems judging by their 
abysmal
performance, thanks for the model, we'll pass on devising a plan.

Trond E. Jacobsen

September 9, 2005

The Honorable Michael Chertoff
Secretary of Homeland Security
Department of Homeland Security
Washington, DC  20528

Dear Secretary Chertoff:

The House Committee on Government Reform has obtained from the Department of
Homeland Security a document describing the ?Scope of Work? of a contract
issued by the Federal Emergency Management Agency for the development of a
?Southeastern Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane Plan.?  We are writing to
request any plans and other documents that were developed under this 
contract.

FEMA?s Scope of Work contemplated that a private contractor, Innovative
Emergency Management, Inc. (IEM), would complete the work under the contract 
in
three stages.   ?Stage One? called for a simulation exercise involving FEMA 
and
the state of Louisiana that would ?feature a catastrophic hurricane striking
southeastern Louisiana.?   ?Stage Two? called for ?development of the full
catastrophic hurricane disaster plan.?   And ?Stage Three? involved 
unrelated
earthquake planning.

A task order issued under the contract called for IEM to execute ?Stage One?
between May 19 and September 30, 2004, at a cost of $518,284.   On June 3,
2004, IEM issued a press release announcing that it would ?lead the 
development
of a catastrophic hurricane disaster plan for Southeast Louisiana and the 
City
of New Orleans under a more than half a million dollar contract with the 
U.S.
Department of Homeland Security/Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).?
A second task order issued on September 23, 2004, required IEM to ?complete 
the
development of the SE Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane plan.?    The cost of
this task order was $199,969.

The ?Background? section of the Scope of Work stated that ?the emergency
management community has long feared the occurrence of a catastrophic
disaster,? which the document describes as ?an event having unprecedented
levels of damage, casualties, dislocation, and disruption that would have
nationwide consequences and jeopardize national security.?   According to 
the
background discussion, the emergency management community was concerned that
?existing plans, policies, procedures and resources? would not be adequate 
to
address such a ?mega-disaster.?

According to the Scope of Work, the contact ?will assist FEMA, State, and 
local
government to enhance response planning activities and operations by 
focusing
on specific catastrophic disasters:  those disasters that by definition will
immediately overwhelm the existing disaster response capabilities of local,
State, and Federal Governments.?   With respect to southeastern Louisiana, 
the
specific ?catastrophic disaster? to be addressed was ?a slow-moving Category 
3,
4, or 5 hurricane that ? crosses New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain.?   The
Scope of Work explained:

Various hurricane studies suggest that a slow-moving Category 3 or almost 
any
Category 4 or 5 hurricane approaching Southeast Louisiana from the south 
could
severely damage the heavily populated Southeast portion of the state 
creating a
catastrophe with which the State would not be able to cope without massive 
help
from neighboring states and the Federal Government.

The Scope of Work further stated:  ?The Federal Emergency Management Agency
(FEMA) and the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness (LOEP) believe 
that
the gravity of the situation calls for an extraordinary level of advance
planning to improve government readiness to respond effectively to such an
event.?

The specific disaster scenario contemplated under the contract is strikingly
similar to the actual disaster caused by Hurricane Katrina.  The contract
envisioned that ?a catastrophic hurricane could result in significant 
numbers
of deaths and injuries, trap hundreds of thousands of people in flooded 
areas,
and leave up to one million people homeless.?   The Scope of Work expressly
directed the contractor to plan for the following specific conditions:

? ?Over one million people would evacuate from New Orleans.  Evacuees would
crowd shelters throughout Louisiana and adjacent states.?

? ?Hurricane surge would block highways and trap 300,000 to 350,000 persons 
in
flooded areas.  Storm surge of over 18 feet would overflow flood-protection
levees on the Lake Pontchartrain side of New Orleans.  Storm surge combined
with heavy rain could leave much of New Orleans under 14 to 17 feet of 
water.
More than 200 square miles of urban areas would be flooded.?

? ?It could take weeks to ?de-water? (drain) New Orleans:  Inundated pumping
stations and damaged pump motors would be inoperable.  Flood-protection 
levees
would prevent drainage of floodwater.  Breaching the levees would be a
complicated and politically sensitive problem:  The Corps of Engineers may 
have
to use barges or helicopters to haul earthmoving equipment to open several
hundred feet of levee.?

? ?Rescue operations would be difficult because much of the area would be
reachable only by helicopters and boats.?

? ?Hospitals would be overcrowded with special-needs patients.  Backup
generators would run out of fuel or fail before patients could be moved
elsewhere.?

? ?The New Orleans area would be without electric power, food, potable 
water,
medicine, or transportation for an extended time period.?

? ?Damaged chemical plants and industries could spill hazardous materials.?

? ?Standing water and disease could threaten public health.?

? ?There would be severe economic repercussions for the state and region.?

? ?Outside responders and resources, including the Federal response 
personnel
and materials, would have difficulty entering and working in the affected
area.?

It appears that IEM completed the task order for ?Stage One,? the hurricane
simulation.  An exercise know as ?Hurricane Pam,? was conducted by FEMA and 
IEM
in July 2004, bringing together emergency officials from 50 parish, state,
federal, and volunteer organizations to simulate the conditions described 
above
and plan an emergency response.   As a result of the exercise, officials
reportedly developed proposals for handling debris removal, sheltering, 
search
and rescue, medical care, and schools.

It is not clear, however, what plans or draft plans, if any, IEM prepared to
complete ?Stage Two,? the development of the final catastrophic hurricane
disaster plan.  The task order for ?Stage Two? provided that the ?period of
performance? was September 23, 2004, to September 30, 2005.

The basis for the award of the planning work to IEM is also not indicated in 
the
documents we received.  The task orders were issued to IEM by FEMA under an
?Indefinite Delivery Vehicle? (IDV) contract between IEM and the General
Services Administration.  According to the Federal Procurement Data System,
FEMA received only one bid (from IEM) for the task orders.

The documents from the Department raise multiple questions about the 
contract
with IEM and the planning for a catastrophic hurricane in southeastern
Louisiana.  To help us understand these issues, we request that the 
Department
provide the following documents and information:

(1) Any documents relating to the ?Stage One? simulation exercise, including
documents prepared for exercise planners and participants, transcripts or
minutes of exercise proceedings, participant evaluations, and after action
reports;

(2) Any final or draft plans for a catastrophic hurricane in southeastern
Louisiana prepared under ?Stage Two? of the contract, including any final or
draft Catastrophic Hurricane Disaster Plan, Basic Plan Framework, Emergency
Support Function Annex, or Support Annex; and

(3) An explanation of the procurement procedures used in selecting IEM for 
the
contract and task orders, as well as a description of IEM?s qualifications 
and
the justification for selecting IEM.

We recognize that Department officials are engaged in ongoing relief 
efforts,
and we do not want to impair those efforts in any way.  For this reason, we
have tailored our request to the discrete set of documents and information 
set
forth above.  To expedite your response to this request, we have enclosed
copies of the Scope of Work, task orders, and other documents cited in this
letter.

Sincerely,



Rep. Tom Davis				Rep. Henry A. Waxman
Chairman				Ranking Minority Member

Enclosure

-footnotes don't surive pasting into web-mail but quotes in letter use these
sources as they appear in footnotes.

1. Federal Emergency Management Agency, Combined Catastrophic Plan for 
Southeast
Louisiana and the New Madrid Seismic Zone:  Scope of Work, p.2.
2. FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 7.
3. FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 2.
4. Contract Number GS10F0178L, BPA #HSFEHQ-04-A-0288, Task Order 1.
5. Press Release, IEM Team to Develop Catastrophic Hurricane Disaster Plan 
for
New Orleans & Southeast Louisiana (June 3, 2004) (online at
http://www.ieminc.com/Whats_New/Press_Releases/pressrelease060304_Catastrophic.htm).
6. Contract Number GS10F0178L, BPA #HSFEHQ-04-A-0288, Task Order
HSFEHQ-04-J-0002.
7. Id.
8. FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 4.
9. Id.
10.FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 1.
11.FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 5.
12.Id.
13.Id.
14.Id.
15.FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 6.
16.FEMA, Press Release, Hurricane Pam Exercise Concludes (July 23, 2004).
17.Id.
18.Contract Number GS10F0178L, BPA #HSFEHQ-04-A-0288, Task Order
HSFEHQ-04-J-0002.
19.Federal Procurement Data System, GSA Schedule GS10F0178L, February 15, 
2001
(data obtained from FPDS on Sept. 8, 2005).
20.Federal Procurement Data System, FEMA Awards Referencing GSA Schedule
GS10F0178L (data obtained from FPDS on Sept. 8, 2005).

_______________________________________________
eDebate mailing list
eDebate at ndtceda.com
To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate





From trond  Sat Sep 10 10:10:44 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:10:44 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] They ALL knew?
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-F544CF2668597CE01E099DC19B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY103-F544CF2668597CE01E099DC19B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4F5FB0A906C7E6F8150B4B49@PHD9-XP.si.umich.edu>

State and local officials were major players in the Pam exercise in 2004, 
meaning they knew as well. That's why I said "they" not only executive 
agencies.

The difference maker comes in assessing ability to act, what was done when 
action was taken, and so forth.  That and the 2004 study concluded Feds 
should plan in advance because existing plans and capabilities, 
particularly of locals as I read the reports of the study, would be 
insufficient.

One of the many money quotes:

"Federal support must be provided in a timely manner to save lives, prevent 
human suffering and mitigate severe damage," the report says. "This may 
require mobilizing and deploying assets before they are requested via 
normal (National Response Plan) protocols."

<http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050909/ap_on_re_us/katrina_what_planners_feared>

My first through every substantive post on the issue has included criticism 
of local and state players.  As far as I know I'm the only person on the 
list to specifically call for heads from members of both parties.  I'll say 
it again: Blanco screwed up and should pay a price, but not in a way that 
lets the bigger players off the hook.

It's just dumb and wrong in my opinion to always roll it down hill and heap 
scorn and blame on players with the fewest resources, particularly when the 
report produced concludes the Feds will have to pick up the slack for 
overwhelmed locals.

Does a single Republican remember Bush saying the measure of a leader is 
his response to things like natural disasters?

This is supposed to be the accountability administration and all I see are 
the King and his courtiers pointing their fingers at the burghers and 
serfs.  Sorry guys, chain of command don't work that way.

As the immortal B.B. King put it: "you gotta pay the cost to be the boss"

Trond E. Jacobsen

--On Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:11 PM +0000 todd lyden 
<tlyden at hotmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf
>
> The Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan is
> intended to provide a framework within which the parishes can coordinate
> their actions with State government in order to deal with a catastrophic
> hurricane.
> A catastrophic hurricane is defined as a hurricane in Category 3 Slow (5
> mph
> or less forward speed), and categories 4 or 5 on the Saffir-Simpson Scale
> of
> hurricane strength (See Annex A). Hurricanes in Category 1, 2 and 3 Fast,
> are considered less destructive and can be met through the use of normal
> emergency preparedness procedures on the part of the Parish and State
> governments.
> The overall strategy for dealing with a catastrophic hurricane is to
> evacuate as
> much of the at risk population as possible from the path of the storm and
> relocate them to a place of relative safety outside the projected high
> water
> mark of the storm surge flooding and hurricane force winds.
>
> http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/evacinfo/stateevacrtes.htm
>
> A. SITUATIONS
> 1. The Greater New Orleans Metropolitan Area represents a difficult
> evacuation problem due to the large population and it?s unique layout.
> 2. This area is located in a floodplain much of which lies below sea level
> and is surrounded by an extensive marine estuarine system of lakes,
> canals, bayous, the Gulf of Mexico and the Mississippi River. Some
> parish storm drainage systems discharge into area waterways. High
> water levels would impede adequate pumping and prevent relief against
> flooding from heavy rainfall.
> 3. Tidal surge, associated with the "worst case" Category 3, 4 or 5
> Hurricane Scenario for the Greater New Orleans Metropolitan Area, as
> determined by the National Weather Service (NWS) Sea, Lake and
> Overland Surge from Hurricanes (SLOSH) Model, could cause a
> maximum inundation of 20 feet above sea level in some of the parishes
> in the Region, not including tidal effects, wind waves and storm rainfall.
> 4. The Area is protected by an extensive levee system, but above-normal
> water levels and hurricane surge could cause levee overtopping or
> failures.
> 5. It will take a long time to evacuate large numbers of people from the
> Region.
> 6. The road systems used for evacuations are limited, and many of the
> roadways are near bodies of water and susceptible to flooding.
> 7. The combined population of the Region is approximately 1,694,805
> (1990 Census, as amended July 1, 1999), of whom the majority are at
> risk from a hurricane (Annex C).
> 8. Many of the Region's emergency shelter facilities may be inundated by
> floodwaters when threatened by a slow moving Category 3 or above
> hurricane. Sheltering of evacuees outside of the Region becomes
> necessary.
> 9. In most emergencies the number of persons needing public shelter will
> be limited. In the event of a catastrophic hurricane, however, the
> evacuation of over a million people from the Southeast Region could
> overwhelm normally available shelter resources.
>
> The organization and assignment of primary and secondary responsibilities
> are detailed in the State Emergency Operations Plan (EOP). Listed below
> are
> the key participants and their roles in the event of a catastrophic
> hurricane:
> 1. Governor:
> a. Proclaim a State of Emergency.
> b. Issue supplementary declarations and orders, as the situation
> requires.
> c. Authorize and direct the use of State government personnel and
> other resources to deal with the emergency.
> d. Authorize and direct the authorities of non-risk parishes to
> coordinate the opening and operation of shelters with DSS in
> conjunction with ARC, and to lend all possible assistance to the
> evacuation and shelter effort.
> e. Request Federal government assistance as needed.
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: trond at umich.edu
> To: edebate at ndtceda.com
> Subject: [eDebate] They knew?
> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:32:07 -0400
>
> They knew.
>
> Not should have known.  Not signals got crossed.  Not worse than imagined.
>
> They knew what it would do, they knew who would be hurt, they knew the
> locals
> would be overwhelmed.  Then they said, or so it seems judging by their
> abysmal
> performance, thanks for the model, we'll pass on devising a plan.
>
> Trond E. Jacobsen
>
> September 9, 2005
>
> The Honorable Michael Chertoff
> Secretary of Homeland Security
> Department of Homeland Security
> Washington, DC  20528
>
> Dear Secretary Chertoff:
>
> The House Committee on Government Reform has obtained from the Department
> of
> Homeland Security a document describing the ?Scope of Work? of a contract
> issued by the Federal Emergency Management Agency for the development of a
> ?Southeastern Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane Plan.?  We are writing to
> request any plans and other documents that were developed under this
> contract.
>
> FEMA?s Scope of Work contemplated that a private contractor, Innovative
> Emergency Management, Inc. (IEM), would complete the work under the
> contract in
> three stages.   ?Stage One? called for a simulation exercise involving
> FEMA and
> the state of Louisiana that would ?feature a catastrophic hurricane
> striking
> southeastern Louisiana.?   ?Stage Two? called for ?development of the full
> catastrophic hurricane disaster plan.?   And ?Stage Three? involved
> unrelated
> earthquake planning.
>
> A task order issued under the contract called for IEM to execute ?Stage
> One?
> between May 19 and September 30, 2004, at a cost of $518,284.   On June 3,
> 2004, IEM issued a press release announcing that it would ?lead the
> development
> of a catastrophic hurricane disaster plan for Southeast Louisiana and the
> City
> of New Orleans under a more than half a million dollar contract with the
> U.S.
> Department of Homeland Security/Federal Emergency Management Agency
> (FEMA).?
> A second task order issued on September 23, 2004, required IEM to
> ?complete the
> development of the SE Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane plan.?    The cost
> of
> this task order was $199,969.
>
> The ?Background? section of the Scope of Work stated that ?the emergency
> management community has long feared the occurrence of a catastrophic
> disaster,? which the document describes as ?an event having unprecedented
> levels of damage, casualties, dislocation, and disruption that would have
> nationwide consequences and jeopardize national security.?   According to
> the
> background discussion, the emergency management community was concerned
> that
> ?existing plans, policies, procedures and resources? would not be
> adequate to
> address such a ?mega-disaster.?
>
> According to the Scope of Work, the contact ?will assist FEMA, State, and
> local
> government to enhance response planning activities and operations by
> focusing
> on specific catastrophic disasters:  those disasters that by definition
> will
> immediately overwhelm the existing disaster response capabilities of
> local,
> State, and Federal Governments.?   With respect to southeastern
> Louisiana, the
> specific ?catastrophic disaster? to be addressed was ?a slow-moving
> Category 3,
> 4, or 5 hurricane that ? crosses New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain.?
> The
> Scope of Work explained:
>
> Various hurricane studies suggest that a slow-moving Category 3 or almost
> any
> Category 4 or 5 hurricane approaching Southeast Louisiana from the south
> could
> severely damage the heavily populated Southeast portion of the state
> creating a
> catastrophe with which the State would not be able to cope without
> massive help
> from neighboring states and the Federal Government.
>
> The Scope of Work further stated:  ?The Federal Emergency Management
> Agency
> (FEMA) and the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness (LOEP) believe
> that
> the gravity of the situation calls for an extraordinary level of advance
> planning to improve government readiness to respond effectively to such an
> event.?
>
> The specific disaster scenario contemplated under the contract is
> strikingly
> similar to the actual disaster caused by Hurricane Katrina.  The contract
> envisioned that ?a catastrophic hurricane could result in significant
> numbers
> of deaths and injuries, trap hundreds of thousands of people in flooded
> areas,
> and leave up to one million people homeless.?   The Scope of Work
> expressly
> directed the contractor to plan for the following specific conditions:
>
> ? ?Over one million people would evacuate from New Orleans.  Evacuees
> would
> crowd shelters throughout Louisiana and adjacent states.?
>
> ? ?Hurricane surge would block highways and trap 300,000 to 350,000
> persons in
> flooded areas.  Storm surge of over 18 feet would overflow
> flood-protection
> levees on the Lake Pontchartrain side of New Orleans.  Storm surge
> combined
> with heavy rain could leave much of New Orleans under 14 to 17 feet of
> water.
> More than 200 square miles of urban areas would be flooded.?
>
> ? ?It could take weeks to ?de-water? (drain) New Orleans:  Inundated
> pumping
> stations and damaged pump motors would be inoperable.  Flood-protection
> levees
> would prevent drainage of floodwater.  Breaching the levees would be a
> complicated and politically sensitive problem:  The Corps of Engineers
> may have
> to use barges or helicopters to haul earthmoving equipment to open several
> hundred feet of levee.?
>
> ? ?Rescue operations would be difficult because much of the area would be
> reachable only by helicopters and boats.?
>
> ? ?Hospitals would be overcrowded with special-needs patients.  Backup
> generators would run out of fuel or fail before patients could be moved
> elsewhere.?
>
> ? ?The New Orleans area would be without electric power, food, potable
> water,
> medicine, or transportation for an extended time period.?
>
> ? ?Damaged chemical plants and industries could spill hazardous
> materials.?
>
> ? ?Standing water and disease could threaten public health.?
>
> ? ?There would be severe economic repercussions for the state and region.?
>
> ? ?Outside responders and resources, including the Federal response
> personnel
> and materials, would have difficulty entering and working in the affected
> area.?
>
> It appears that IEM completed the task order for ?Stage One,? the
> hurricane
> simulation.  An exercise know as ?Hurricane Pam,? was conducted by FEMA
> and IEM
> in July 2004, bringing together emergency officials from 50 parish, state,
> federal, and volunteer organizations to simulate the conditions described
> above
> and plan an emergency response.   As a result of the exercise, officials
> reportedly developed proposals for handling debris removal, sheltering,
> search
> and rescue, medical care, and schools.
>
> It is not clear, however, what plans or draft plans, if any, IEM prepared
> to
> complete ?Stage Two,? the development of the final catastrophic hurricane
> disaster plan.  The task order for ?Stage Two? provided that the ?period
> of
> performance? was September 23, 2004, to September 30, 2005.
>
> The basis for the award of the planning work to IEM is also not indicated
> in the
> documents we received.  The task orders were issued to IEM by FEMA under
> an
> ?Indefinite Delivery Vehicle? (IDV) contract between IEM and the General
> Services Administration.  According to the Federal Procurement Data
> System,
> FEMA received only one bid (from IEM) for the task orders.
>
> The documents from the Department raise multiple questions about the
> contract
> with IEM and the planning for a catastrophic hurricane in southeastern
> Louisiana.  To help us understand these issues, we request that the
> Department
> provide the following documents and information:
>
> (1) Any documents relating to the ?Stage One? simulation exercise,
> including
> documents prepared for exercise planners and participants, transcripts or
> minutes of exercise proceedings, participant evaluations, and after action
> reports;
>
> (2) Any final or draft plans for a catastrophic hurricane in southeastern
> Louisiana prepared under ?Stage Two? of the contract, including any final
> or
> draft Catastrophic Hurricane Disaster Plan, Basic Plan Framework,
> Emergency
> Support Function Annex, or Support Annex; and
>
> (3) An explanation of the procurement procedures used in selecting IEM
> for the
> contract and task orders, as well as a description of IEM?s
> qualifications and
> the justification for selecting IEM.
>
> We recognize that Department officials are engaged in ongoing relief
> efforts,
> and we do not want to impair those efforts in any way.  For this reason,
> we
> have tailored our request to the discrete set of documents and
> information set
> forth above.  To expedite your response to this request, we have enclosed
> copies of the Scope of Work, task orders, and other documents cited in
> this
> letter.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Rep. Tom Davis				Rep. Henry A. Waxman
> Chairman				Ranking Minority Member
>
> Enclosure
>
> -footnotes don't surive pasting into web-mail but quotes in letter use
> these
> sources as they appear in footnotes.
>
> 1. Federal Emergency Management Agency, Combined Catastrophic Plan for
> Southeast
> Louisiana and the New Madrid Seismic Zone:  Scope of Work, p.2.
> 2. FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 7.
> 3. FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 2.
> 4. Contract Number GS10F0178L, BPA #HSFEHQ-04-A-0288, Task Order 1.
> 5. Press Release, IEM Team to Develop Catastrophic Hurricane Disaster
> Plan for
> New Orleans & Southeast Louisiana (June 3, 2004) (online at
> http://www.ieminc.com/Whats_New/Press_Releases/pressrelease060304_Catastr
> ophic.htm).
> 6. Contract Number GS10F0178L, BPA #HSFEHQ-04-A-0288, Task Order
> HSFEHQ-04-J-0002.
> 7. Id.
> 8. FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 4.
> 9. Id.
> 10.FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 1.
> 11.FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 5.
> 12.Id.
> 13.Id.
> 14.Id.
> 15.FEMA, Scope of Work, supra note 1 at p. 6.
> 16.FEMA, Press Release, Hurricane Pam Exercise Concludes (July 23, 2004).
> 17.Id.
> 18.Contract Number GS10F0178L, BPA #HSFEHQ-04-A-0288, Task Order
> HSFEHQ-04-J-0002.
> 19.Federal Procurement Data System, GSA Schedule GS10F0178L, February 15,
> 2001
> (data obtained from FPDS on Sept. 8, 2005).
> 20.Federal Procurement Data System, FEMA Awards Referencing GSA Schedule
> GS10F0178L (data obtained from FPDS on Sept. 8, 2005).
>
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
>
>
>
>





From let_the_american_empire_burn  Sat Sep 10 11:47:45 2005
From: let_the_american_empire_burn (Kevin Sanchez)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:47:45 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] don't be...
Message-ID: <BAY102-F37E94F0381F6B1DB22FBD1D89B0@phx.gbl>

in response to korcok's post from the 1st: 
http://www.ndtceda.com/archives/200509/0016.html.

_

it's evident from korcok's quotation of robert f. kennedy jr. that he was 
parodying pat robertson's views of divine retribution for immorality by way 
of natural disasters; kennedy says 'assuming god really does punish us for 
sins', then perhaps it's punishment for a failure to act on global warming. 
he's not promoting the view as his own; it's satire. obviously, he had 
trouble getting korcok's choice vocab - 'cumdumpster' - passed the censors. 
robert f. kennedy jr. is a stand up gentlemen who has done nothing but fight 
for environmental causes that affect the lives of real people.

perhaps it is crass to talk of the political dimensions of such a tragedy. 
but we have to. how could we let this happen?, is the first question, which 
naturally leads to, could we have prevented this, or dramatically lessened 
the severity of the storm's devastation? did anyone fall asleep at the wheel 
(and cutting funding for flood control in new orleans by 44% certainly seems 
criticizable, though i have no idea how whomever cited this stat arrived at 
it)? and naturally, what must be done to better prepare for the next storm?

there's some reputable science suggesting that increasing hurricane severity 
relates to rising global temperatures. that's what some refer to as a fact, 
or at least a sound theory supported by credible facts. this means that if 
global warming continues unabated, what would've been a level 3 hurricane 
might come at you as a level 5. and there'll be more per season. now we have 
a graphic depiction of exactly what that means for folks in the path of more 
intense storms.

it's because this is such a horrible tragedy that shrugging our shoulders 
and calling it an act of nature or god can never be an acceptable solution. 
it's time for mourning, yes, but it's also time to derive the lessons from 
this event that may help to save lives in the future. like it or not, that's 
a political discussion, but hopefully one grounded in the shared 
gratefulness that it wasn't us... at least, not this time.

if the left grows a spine (a big if, even though the media seems to have), 
they should repeat three talking points: incompetence, poverty, climate 
change, incompetence, poverty, climate change, incompetence, poverty, 
climate change.

incompetence - the federal response-time was abysmal. where's the compassion 
in bush's conservatism? where was the fucking sense of urgency while people 
were dehydrated and starving?

poverty - if this were new york or boston or seattle or san fran, would it 
have gone down like this? what if new orleans were mostly white? barbara 
bush's marie-antoinette-like concerns seem almost representative here:

"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas 
... And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were 
underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them." 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/national/nationalspecial/07barbara.html)

WORKING OUT VERY WELL FOR THEM!!! WORKING OUT VERY WELL FOR THEM!!! jeez.

the left needs to re-learn an old forgotten term: 'redistribution of 
wealth'. and add 'reparations' to that while we're at it. straight-up.

climate change - let's finally put myths of invincibility to rest. let's 
finally acknowledge that harm to the economy doesn't trumph environmental 
concerns. the former means less cash for already rich oil barons; the latter 
means real people dying. wakeup call: don't fuck nature cuz she'll fuck you 
harder.

i'm no leftist, of course. i'm just describing the debate i'd like to see. 
it seems like there's a more fundamental problem here, and it's this: 
politicians are disconnected from gut-level reality. maybe it's because 
they're rich, maybe it's because they're surrounded by spinmeisters and 
cronies, i have no answer. bush walks around in a fortress guarded by smirks 
and platitudes, and he's not alone. even the doe-eyed know that politics is 
a public relations game, but some still held on to the belief that at the 
end of the day the game provided an effective incentive to help people in 
times of need. any such illusions drowned in new orleans.                    
                        .k (kevin.sanchez at gmail.com)





From doyle  Sat Sep 10 18:23:58 2005
From: doyle (Doyle Srader)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 18:23:58 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] You could knock me over with a feather
Message-ID: <43236B0E.1020207@sfasu.edu>

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/10/katrina.contracts.reut/index.html

G'ahead, Mike: defend this one.

-- 
Doyle Srader, Ph.D.
Lecturer, Speech Communication
Stephen F. Austin State University
http://www.faculty.sfasu.edu/f_sraderdw/

Ezekiel 36:26-27





From mmk_savant  Sat Sep 10 22:03:14 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:03:14 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans Doyle
Message-ID: <BAY101-F19FFE75CC734DC47A13B74E49A0@phx.gbl>

so i'm watching the Texas/Ohio State game and i want even MORE entertainment 
than that.
(must be that conservative greed and selfishness coursing through my veins)

so i check out edebate.
i know the Russian judge posted that i was 7 points down to "Frenchy" 
McCollum and even though i wasn't interested in the game Frenchy wanted to 
play, still...  you know...

but while the game is still on... A DIVERSION!!!

Doyle links a CNN story about hurricane contracts going to Bechtel and 
Halliburton.
the story doesn't seem to do anything political.

after all, it merely states facts.
Bechtel and Halliburton got clean-up and reconstruction contracts.
Lobbyists for these companies used to work in the Bush Administration and 
Cheney used to run Halliburton.
and then ...  well... nothing.

it leaves the reader to infer that something AMISS has occurred.
the author hopes that the reader will do as Doyle did...

BE SO SHOCKED AT THE CORRUPTION AND IMMORALITY THAT A MERE CHICKEN FEATHER 
THROWN AT HIS FOREHEAD WOULD KNOCK HIM OVER LIKE A WEEBLE.
(arms flapping wildly, hopelessly trying to regain his balance in a world 
gone AWRY)

but an actual allegation that anything sketchy sketchy much less tricky 
tricky much less illegal much less unethical has occurred never happens in 
that article.  nor is there a single piece of data presented to lead one to 
believe that anything AMISS or AWRY was done by anyone.

absent information that any wrongdoing occurred... some questions...

1) how long should FEMA and the White House have waited to award those 
contracts?
2) was anyone else even bidding?
3) should the contracts have been awarded to companies from Venezuela and 
Saudi Arabia instead?
4) why wasn't Doyle WEEBLING and WOBBLING 3 days ago when the UN oil for 
food corruption report was issued?  at stake was much more money and 
illegal/unethical/corrupt contracting proven.
(my theory is that Doyle only gets outraged when that outrage can be 
directed at George Bush)
5) why isn't Doyleco (tm) bidding on these contracts?  after all... well... 
the revenue models for "sitting around not doing anything really useful, 
just griping and bitching mostly" don't line the venture capitalists up.

now i am not a huge fan of my tax dollars going to private enterprises.  but 
i am not a big fan of having my dollars taxed in the first place.  but you 
all always outvote me on those beliefs.

so i pay through the nostrils and that money is used for a lot of things i 
object to.  one of the things i object to less than most is that money goes 
to employ people to rebuild the Gulf Coast.

and if more rebuilding can be accomplished per dollar by giving the 
contracts to Bechtel and Halliburton that is better than funnelling the 
money through some corrupt French, German, or Venezuelan companies.  and 
please for the love of sanity don't throw the money away on some bullshit 
public works program that becomes a bottomless sink for getting nothing 
done.

how is that Doyle?

OSU 22 Texas 16 with 7 minutes in the 4th.

Michael Korcok





From christopherburk  Sat Sep 10 22:49:47 2005
From: christopherburk (Christopher Burk)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:49:47 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Hook 'Em 'Horns
Message-ID: <BAY101-F3880249DCA775C1619CCD6B69A0@phx.gbl>

Huge win for the football team on the road.

Congrats,
Chris Burk
UT Austin alum





From christopherburk  Sat Sep 10 22:54:58 2005
From: christopherburk (Christopher Burk)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:54:58 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Weebles Wobble
Message-ID: <BAY101-F31D243599CFD3647A28027B69A0@phx.gbl>

Korcok:
"BE SO SHOCKED AT THE CORRUPTION AND IMMORALITY THAT A MERE CHICKEN FEATHER 
THROWN AT HIS FOREHEAD WOULD KNOCK HIM OVER LIKE A WEEBLE. (arms flapping 
wildly, hopelessly trying to regain his balance in a world gone AWRY)"



FYI for Korcok: Weebles Wobble but they don't fall over. And they don't have 
arms either.


We now return you to your regularly scheduled 'infinite prep'

Chris Burk





From Mikedavis13  Sun Sep 11 10:28:38 2005
From: Mikedavis13 (Mikedavis13 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:28:38 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] Call for hired judges at GSU tournament
Message-ID: <211.8cb34b7.3055a726@aol.com>


GSU is looking for hire judges in the Atlanta area. We pay $20 per round.  
Please let me know if you are interested for all or part of the tournament. The  
tournament is the 24th-26th of September.
 
Mike
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050911/5de686c4/attachment.html 


From bbcoulte  Sun Sep 11 15:59:09 2005
From: bbcoulte (Benjamin Coulter)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:59:09 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] looking to hire judging at GSU
Message-ID: <s324545c.021@gw3.samford.edu>

Samford is looking to hire a good chunk of judging at GSU.  We'll pay $25/round cash at the tournment.  Drop me a line if you are interested.

Ben

Benjamin Coulter
Debate Coach and Instructor 
Department of Communication Studies
Samford University




From FijiPapabear  Sun Sep 11 21:32:10 2005
From: FijiPapabear (FijiPapabear at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 22:32:10 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] A Little something to talk about on Nuclear Weapons
Message-ID: <ff.1b9e1ca1.305642aa@aol.com>

Here is the latest Federal Govt report on when Use is acceptable.
 
_http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/policy/dod/jp3_12fc2.pdf_ 
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/policy/dod/jp3_12fc2.pdf) 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050911/28303e68/attachment.htm 


From mmk_savant  Mon Sep 12 02:00:16 2005
From: mmk_savant (Michael Korcok)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 03:00:16 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ans Frenchy
Message-ID: <BAY101-F12EE425AD0B259761A9593E49D0@phx.gbl>

"Frenchy" McCollum wrote:

"Once again I'm ... the fuck... I just can't help myself ... a moron."
and
"I'm cleaning out this old ... stuff before ... dysentary..."

Unfair of me?  True, there were other words he also typed that i ellipsed 
out above, but he DID write those words and in that order in his first 
paragraph.  But you are right, i should have given him enough respect to 
convey his words and ideas correctly before engaging them.  And he should 
have done the same for me.

Frenchy grants the point that i was making in the thread (the only one i 
cared about) then gets all belligerent and shrieky, even calling me a 
"moron".  It is like it pained him to admit i was right.  In case you missed 
the part where he admits, "Korcok is right":

*** Frenchy wrote: "There is a significant difference between politically 
engaging the failed response to Katrina and using a tragic event such as 
this to support an unresponsive political effort (yes, that's an argument 
agaisnt Kennedy, Robertson, and even Grover Norquist's call for a repeal of 
the estate tax in response to Katrina)."

i respond:  Thanks.  That was my whole point.  Game over.

*** But Frenchy had to continue and next got into a lather beating on a 
strawperson: "But it is moronic and pathetic to decry criticism as 'playing 
politics' as if it were a dirty and self-serving tactic to be outraged at 
what happened."

i respond:  Yes it is.  But I thought that was obvious even to 8th graders.  
And of course his sentence entails the distinction he made in the previous 
one between legitimate "criticism" and outrage as "a dirty and self-serving 
tactic".  The former is "politically engaging the failed response to 
Katrina" while the latter is "using a tragic event to support an 
unresponsive political effort".

For the 4th time here since it didn't get through to Frenchy the first 3 
times:  I never wrote "don't criticize the response" and i never wrote 
"don't criticize Bush."  I also never wrote that "criticism" was the same 
thing as "playing politics".  I also never wrote that McCollum's mama was 
fat.  The closest i came to those things was "you shouldn't use the human 
tragedy to advance your politics" and the examples should have made it plain 
that i meant the stuff McCollum grants that you shouldn't do.

The REST of Frenchy's essay is a twisty spin-job to elbow-in a screeching 
screed against George Bush.  I will play but just to make sure we are all on 
the same page.  My point was that you shouldn't be a cumdumpster that uses 
human tragedy to advance their politics.  period.

I will get to his 2 particular examples of how George Bush is using the 
tragedy to advance his politics eventually.  Before that i want to comment 
on the other stuff.

*** Frenchy wrote this entirely pointless paragraph: "First, Bush holds a 
political office, his election to which charged him with, among other 
things, the responsibility to over see the enaction and enforcement of 
Federal law and policy. Claiming that the Federal government failed to 
properly respond to Katrina in a disasterous way is an inherently political 
claim because it goes to the heart of the duty of an elected official. No 
one is dumb enough to try to argue that we shouldn't criticize the response 
efforts so that this doesn't happen again, so there has to be political 
discussion. If this doesn't make sense or you disagree then stop reading now 
and go find an 8th grade social studies book."

I respond:  Yes, that was all obvious.  And uncontroversial and thus 
pointless to write.  But the belligerence was entertaining.

And since Frenchy brought it up, the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and 
Skills (TAKS) test for 8th grade social studies measures whether students 
have grasped the essentials well enough to move on to the 9th grade.  Here 
is a sample test question that i expect NONE of you tol miss:

"The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 was one of the most important laws passed 
under the Articles of Confederation. This law established ?

A) an executive branch of government to enforce federal laws
B) a federal bank to control the printing of money
C) a policy to admit western territories as equal states
D) an agency to oversee commerce in western lands"

and just to head off potential nonsense from this paragraph:

1) There is a distinction between taking political action such as holding 
persons and institutions accountable and criticizing poor performance and 
assigning blame and praise and working to prevent future tragedies and using 
a tragedy to advance one's politics.  the former is necessary the latter is 
what assholes do.
2) Surely you are not naming only George Bush in a surreptitious effort to 
make him the focus of criticism and accountability.  after all, Democrat 
Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco is now generally understood to have 
screwed the pooch first, most, and largest by preventing the federalizing of 
troops for the disaster and preventing the Red Cross from sending supplies 
into the city.   Too, there is Ray Nagin, the Democrat New Orleans Mayor who 
delayed the mandatory evacuation order until 24 hours before the storm 
(contrary to the evacuation plan) and who let more than 500 school busses 
sit parked, doing NOTHING to get the city's poor out of New Orleans (also 
contrary to the evacuation plan).  surely you are not doing that when you 
write "First, Bush holds a political office."
3) And the notion of "responsibility" you are pushing, as resting at the 
feet of government officials, is quite troubling as well.  They aren't our 
mommies and our daddies.  The Times-Picayune ran story after story, year 
after year, detailing how a category 4 or 5 hurricane would decimate New 
Orleans.  Again and again, they pointed out that no one had done much to 
prevent an inevitable disaster.  Not one person above the age of 10 in New 
Orleans didn't understand that if a category 4 or 5 hurricane came, there 
would be a tragedy. Yet they all continued to live there, below sea level, 
behind levees that could not survive the hurricane that would one day come.  
Primary responsibility rests there, with the individual persons who knew and 
nonetheless stayed, families and all.

*** then Frenchy wrote this twisty little spinning nonsense:  "Second, the 
primary platform of the GOP's 2002 midterm election strategy, 2004 election 
strategy and Bush/Cheney '04 campaigns rested on the claim that Bush the GOP 
were the best (and only) people capable of adequately preparing America to 
respond to disaster. In 2002 this involved the discussion of the creation of 
the Homeland Security Department and reorganization of federal agencies 
under the authority of the new department, and 2004 was framed to be a 
referredum on the Bush Administration (and GOP congress') efforts to combat 
terrorism and prepare the country for disaster. 2 cycles of GOP election 
strategies, and the appointments of Chertoff and Brown (among others) were 
political manueverings using federal disaster response efforts as tools, and 
the  response to Hurricane Katrina has shown the GOP's political claims to 
be false, or the administration to be a failure."

i respond: yes, yes...  I remember George Bush saying in that one debate "I 
will be the Hurricane Preparedness President!" and John Kerry riposting with 
"No!  If you really want Hurricane Preparedness, pick me!  I won 3 purple 
hearts for injuries i received fighting Hurricanes!"

Look, I am not calling Frenchy a filthy dirty lying punk, but ...  well...  
i am calling it "slimy" and "slippery" when he writes:

"the primary platform ... adequately preparing America to respond to 
disaster"
rather than
"the primary platform ... to fight terrorism"

""the Homeland Security Department ... to combat terrorism and prepare the 
country for disaster."
rather than
"the Homeland Security Department ... to combat terrorism"

"2 cycles of GOP election strategies ... using federal disaster response 
efforts as tools..."
rather than
"2 cycles of GOP election strategies ... using the war on terror"

Frenchy is trying to shoehorn Katrina in by sliming that the elections were 
ALL ABOUT Hurricane Preparedness (and parenthetically the war on terrorism 
which is practically the same thing anyway).  Because Bush PROMISED he would 
prevent the bad weather and we voted for him because he PROMISED to stop the 
hurricanes and Katrina proves he FAILED, is INCOMPETENT, and needs to be 
IMPEACHED!

also, before we move on, let's talk blame and incompetence some more.

NOTHING prevented Nancy Pelosi from offering to trade levee reinforcement 
funding for the filibuster of federal judgeships.  She is to blame because 
she chose to screw around with judges to no end instead of KEEPING US SAFE.

NOTHING forced Jesse Jackson to spend his energy trying to convince us that 
Hugo Chavez was our friend instead of focussing on levee reinforcement.  If 
the Right Reverend had cared about blacks in New Orleans more than he cared 
about some commie in Venezuela, then maybe THOUSANDS COULD HAVE LIVED!

NOTHING stopped Peter "Frenchy" McCollum from making disaster preparedness 
against category 5 hurricanes in New Orleans THE hot political issue in the 
2004 Presidential election except his own INCOMPETENCE.  As Northeast 
Regional Coordinator of the John Kerry for President Campaign, he could have 
energized America to DO SOMETHING.  he didn't.  the fucker.

***Frenchy then wrote his run-on sentence of blame:  "Thousands of people 
died because of ineptitude in response, because FEMA repeated turned away 
help and supplies..."

i respond:

1) huh?  at least explain that "FEMA repeatedly turn away help and supplies" 
because they were awaiting specific requests from state and local officials, 
which is what the protocols required.  Should Brown have just said "Screw 
Blanco and Nagin.  Fucking assjacks!  Send the water, diesel, and radios in 
now!"?  I think he should have.  That would have been the cowboy way to do 
it.  It would also have sent you to the rafters screaming about the arrogant 
Bush administration violating the law to grandstand politically, blah blah 
blah.

2) how many died because the bottles of Wal-Mart water (OH HATEFUL EVIL 
WAL-MART,  surpassed only by Bush and Haliburton!  the racist sweatshop 
produced water of Wal-Mart!) were delayed?  anyone?  or are you just waxing 
rhetorical now?

3) the emergency plan that every local, state, and federal official was 
relying on clearly explains that state and local officials cannot expect any 
federal aid of any kind for the first 36 to 72 hours after the disaster and 
that state and local officials are responsible for fully preparing their 
jurisdictions for those first 36 to 72 hours after a disaster.

Frenchy waxed away:  "because New Orleans wasn't evacuated..."

i respond:  Frenchy moves into the passive tense all of a sudden.  it is 
FEMA that screws up in the previous phrase and it is FEMA that screws up in 
the subsequent phrase, but as far as this phrase, NO ONE is mentioned... 
only "because New Orleans wasn't evacuated..."  Frenchy needs to be bitch 
slapped.

Democrat Mayor Ray Nagin was reponsible for evacuating New Orleans.  In case 
this is unclear, this is the transcript from Meet the Press this morning:

"MR. RUSSERT:  Many people point, Mr. Mayor, that on Friday before the 
hurricane, President Bush declared an impending disaster.  And The Houston 
Chronicle wrote it this way.  "[Mayor Nagin's] mandatory evacuation order 
was issued 20 hours before the storm struck the Louisiana coast, less than 
half the time researchers determined would be needed to get everyone out.  
City officials had 550 municipal buses and hundreds of additional school 
buses at their disposal but made no plans to use them to get people out of 
New Orleans before the storm, said Chester Wilmot, a civil engineering 
professor at Louisiana State University and an expert in transportation 
planning, who helped the city put together its evacuation plan."  And we've 
all see this photograph of these submerged school buses.  Why did you not 
declare, order, a mandatory evacuation on Friday, when the president 
declared an emergency, and have utilized those buses to get people out?

MAYOR NAGIN:  You know, Tim, that's one of the things that will be debated. 
There has never been a catastrophe in the history of New Orleans like this. 
There has never been any Category 5 storm of this magnitude that has hit New 
Orleans directly.  We did the things that we thought were best based upon 
the information that we had.  Sure, here was lots of buses out there.  But 
guess what?  You can't find drivers that would stay behind with a Category 5 
hurricane, you know, pending down on New Orleans.  We barely got enough 
drivers to move people on Sunday, or Saturday and Sunday, to move them to 
the Superdome.  We barely had enough drivers for that.  So sure, we had the 
assets, but the drivers just weren't available.

MR. RUSSERT:  But, Mr. Mayor, if you read the city of New Orleans' 
comprehensive emergency plan-- and I've read it and I'll show it to you and 
our viewers--it says very clearly, "Conduct of an actual evacuation will be 
the responsibility of the mayor of New Orleans.  The city of New Orleans 
will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate 
threatened areas.  Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons 
unable to transport themselves or who require specific life-saving 
assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation 
procedure as needed.  Approximately 100,000 citizens of New Orleans do not 
have means of personal transportation."

It was your responsibility.  Where was the planning?  Where was the 
preparation?  Where was the execution?

MAYOR NAGIN:  The planning was always in getting people to higher ground, 
getting them to safety.  That's what we meant by evacuation.  Get them out 
of their homes, which--most people are under sea level.  Get them to a 
higher ground and then depending upon our state and federal officials to 
move them out of harm's way after the storm has hit.

MR. RUSSERT:  But in July of this year, one month before the hurricane, you 
cut a public service announcement which said, in effect, "You are on your 
own."  And you have said repeatedly that you never thought an evacuation 
plan would work.  Which is true:  whether you would exercise your obligation 
and duty as mayor or that--and evacuate people, or you believe people were 
on their own?

MAYOR NAGIN:  Well, Tim, you know, we basically wove this incredible 
tightrope as it is.  We were in a position of trying to encourage as many 
people as possible to leave because we weren't comfortable that we had the 
resources to move them out of our city.  Keep in mind:  normal evacuations, 
we get about 60 percent of the people out of the city of New Orleans.  This 
time we got 80 percent out.  We encouraged people to buddy up, churches to 
take senior citizens and move them to safety, and a lot of them did.  And 
then we would deal with the remaining people that couldn't or wouldn't leave 
and try and get them to higher ground until safety came.

MR. RUSSERT:  Amtrak said they offered to remove people from the city of New 
Orleans on Saturday night and that the city of New Orleans declined.

MAYOR NAGIN:  I don't know where that's coming from.  Amtrak never contacted 
me to make that offer.  As a matter of fact, we checked the Amtrak lines for 
availability, and every available train was booked, as far as the report 
that I got, through September.  So I'd like to see that report.

MR. RUSSERT:  They said they were moving equipment out of New Orleans in 
order to protect it and offered to take evacuees with them.

MAYOR NAGIN:  I have never gotten that call, Tim, and I would love to have 
had that call.  But it never happened.

MR. RUSSERT:  Since 2002, the federal government has given New Orleans $18 
million to plan and prepare for events like this.  How was that money spent?

MAYOR NAGIN:  It's my understanding that most of the money--I've only been 
in office about three years.  So we've mainly used most of the money that we 
get from the federal government to try and deal with levee protection and 
the coordination of getting people to safety.  That's primarily what we use 
the money for.

MR. RUSSERT:  The Superdome was established as a safe haven for people who 
could not evacuate the city to go to.  Why wasn't there water and food and 
cots and security in place at the Superdome from day one?  Couldn't you as 
mayor have guaranteed that?

MAYOR NAGIN:  Well, we put in place the resources that we had to provide 
security.  There was running water at the time.  There was backup systems. 
There was food.  We encouraged every resident that was coming to the 
Superdome to at least have perishable food to last them about two to three 
days and also to have water to last them about that time.  Keep in mind, we 
always assume that after two to three days the cavalry will be coming."

*** Frenchy rolls on some more: "because FEMA "didn't know" that there were 
people at the
convention center until 36 hours after I saw it on TV..."

i respond:

1) how many died because FEMA didn't watch Fox News?
2) state and local responsibility by agreement.  state and local had to 
prepare for the first 36 to 72 hours after the hurricane.  they didn't do 
shit.
3) Governor Blanco stopped the cavalry (the Red Cross and Salvation Army) at 
the bridges into New Orleans and prevented them from bringing supplies to 
the convention center.  She explained it was because New Orleans wasn't safe 
and that food and water at the Superdome and Convention Center would just 
encourage more people to go there.

Martha Evans, the President of the American Red Cross, personally begged her 
to let them in.  The American Red Cross explained that:

"The (Louisiana) state Homeland Security Department had requested -- and 
continues to request -- that the American Red Cross not come back into New 
Orleans following the hurricane.  Our presence would keep people from 
evacuating and encourage others to come into the city."

now ex-NYU debater Jacob Weigler, who is the propaganda-master over at Media 
Matters, a bunch of commies from The Nation and Salon and other political 
bad jokes, is trying his damndest to spin this as a conspiracy between the 
Bush administration, the Red Cross, and the Salvation Army to smear Blanco.  
but Jake's only arguments are that the Red Cross earlier said that they were 
a-ok with keeping the supplies at the staging area until Blanco gave the 
go-ahead and that FEMA could have forced the issue because the Red Cross is 
a first responder agency.  There is no mystery about the first part:  Martha 
Evans and the Red Cross beg Blanco to go in who refuses:  no way the Red 
Cross is going to do anything except grin and bear it publically with "we're 
not going to ignore the orders of the Governor and go in anyway"  The second 
part is similarly a no-go for Jake:  FEMA can't over-ride the Governor's 
refusal to let someone in unless the President ordered them to do so.  If 
Bush had done that there would have been a massive shit storm from the left. 
  Bush over-ruling a Democrat, woman, governor on her home turf...

oh and a shout-out to Jake for his heroically stupid and heroically extended 
argument that Bush is authorized to take control away from state and local 
officials during natural disasters.  Even the New York Times and Washington 
Post have now taken public positions disagreeing with his stupid 
interpretation of FEMA's mandate.  So Jake has responded by including the 
New York Times and the Washington Post and Newsweek in the Bush conspiracy 
to blame state and local officials.  HEY JAKE!!!  stop being an assjack. 
(love ya man)

4) how many of those "thousands died" because Brown didn't watch the Fox 
News coverage by Shepard Smith of the cluster at the convention center?  
anyone?

*** Frenchy wrote: " because Bush grounded rescue helecopters so that he 
could use them in a photo-op, because Bush had fire fighters diverted from 
rescue efforts so that he could use them in a photo-op and more."

i respond:

1) did anyone NOT get rescued because of that?  anyone DIE?  who?  what were 
their names?

2) the word "diverted" as in "diverted from rescue efforts" and the phrase 
"rather than" as in "helecopters (sic) were at a photo-op for the President 
rather than out rescuing people" is more Lefty and Frenchy spin.  They imply 
that the fire fighters and Coast Guard helicopters were actually rescuing 
and firefighting but stopped for the photo-op.  That is all a fiction 
concocted by a few bloggers and Frenchy.  What supports the claim that the 
specific helicopters and firefighters were DIVERTED by the photo-op?  In 
fact, no rescue helicopters would have been flying and no fire-fighters 
would have been firefighting anyway because the looting and shooting had 
grounded ALL of them.  Remember?

*** Now, back to the top.  The 2 examples Frenchy pushed for his claim that 
Bush was "playing politics".

Example 1 was: " What the White House did: Gave the press an unattributed 
quote from a senior official claiming that Gov. Blanco didn't declare a 
state of emergency, thereby giving the unmistakable impression that it was 
the state/local (Democrats) fault.
What other information would have been helpful: Knowing that this was, in 
fact, a lie.
Why?: Playing politics
Was this Bush "defending" himself: No"

i respond:

1) the epistemological dodge.  Frenchy poses as fact something he doesn't 
know.

he assumes that the Washington Post reporterswho wrote the piece got it 
right.  Look, i don't know Manuel Roig-Franzia or Spencer Hsu beyond the 
fact that they are reporters for the Washington Post.  I sure wouldn't just 
insert what some reporter wrote as factual, though.  Reporters make up stuff 
and attribute it to "senior White House" sources all the time.  And even if 
they didn't make it up outright, they sure could have gotten mixed-up about 
what that "senior White House official" actually said.  To this end, The 
Washington Post correction does NOT claim that the senior white house 
official misled the reporters, only that the story was incorrect.  Also, 
Newsweek pointedly does NOT attribute it's claim that Blanco didn't declare 
a state of emergency to a White House official.

look, if this response seems a stretch...  Everyone "knows" that William 
Rehnquist was the valedictorian and Sandra Day O'Connor the #3 ranked 
student at Stanford Law School in 1952.  That bit of lore has been 
repeatedly reported by almost every newspaper and newscast this summer.  The 
mystery is who was and what happened to #2.  Well there is no #2 becasue  
Stanford Law didn't rank students in the 50s.  The Rehnquist #1 and O'Connor 
#3 tidbit was just made up by a Washington Post reporter in 1981 and no one 
challenged it so it stuck.  Reporters lie and those that don't are stupid.

2) the truth is just as damning for Blanco.  my favorite cable stoopid-newz:

"Soledad O?Brien (CNN Correspondent): Coming to terms meaning that you 
rejected after that 24 hour window that you? didn?t have any interest in 
federalizing the troops or turning power over to the President. Why not hand 
it over madam governor when the first five days, and I think that meeting 
was on Friday [September 2], the first several days of the recovery were 
clearly disastrous?

Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco (D):The first five days of the recovery were 
heroic, we had, we were the people who took control. The National Guard took 
control of the city, brought order out of chaos, because we have law 
enforcement authority, the Federal troops do not. I was very concerned about 
giving up law enforcement authority."

3) not "the White House" and maybe not a lie

at most a "senior White House official" which usually means an intern who 
blabs away for cash.  if it had been someone who knew anything the 
attribution would have been "a very very really senior White House 
official".

even if a senior White House official, they may have misunderstood Karl 
Rove's explanation of what to say... after all "Insurrection Act to 
federalize the emergency response because Blanco refuses to authorize it" is 
really confusing...

the intern-in-charge-of-fetching-things may have heard that and thought 
"Blanco.. no emergency... got it!"  or Hsu/Roig-Franzia heard that 
explanation and put "Blanco... no emergency till Saturday" in their notes.

4) the defense defense

September 4th.  late in the game.  every pinko op-ed clown had already shot 
their load while the White House and its "senior officials" had said 
nothing.  that puts this in the column of defense.  even if you conclude 
that it was defense done dirty it was still DEFENSE.

SO... Frenchy gets this much:  IF a senior White House official did in fact 
tell Hsu/Roig-Franzia that Blanco didn't declare a state of emergency until 
Saturday believing that to be false and with the intent of diverting blame 
to her, then that is BAD.   That would be defense done dirty and Bush should 
do defense cleanly.  see?  Frenchy didn't come away from this discussion 
with NOTHING!!!  Tres bien, Frenchy!

Example 2 was: "What Bush did: Held a photo-op playing up the success and 
"hard work" of
the rescue efforts in Mississippi while standing in front of first 
responders and 2 Coast Guard helecopters.
What other information would have been helpful: Ummm... the helecopters were 
at a photo-op for the President rather than out rescuing people.
Why?: Playing politics
Was this Bush "defending" himself: No
Also, Bush's political efforts cost people their lives. There is nothing 
forgivable about that."

i respond:

1) this is stupid.  no evidence anyone died or was not rescued or was in any 
way inconvenienced.

not 1 iota.  that is all made-up bullshit.
easy test:  who died?  names?

2) playing both sides of the fence.

Bush not there: he doesn't care about black people.  Bush shows up:  he is 
grandstanding.
that means those making this argument are political shills and clowns rather 
than making some good-faith effort at accountability.

3) "diverted" and "rather than" are bullshit

no evidence the copters were diverted from anything except being parked and 
not a speck of data to believe the firefighters were posing "rather than" 
fighting fires instead of waiting for some more looters and shooters to be 
killed off.

by way of partial closure...  everything after the first few paragraphs is 
playtime...  my point was NOT that you shouldn't blame Bush or that you 
shouldn't hold the Administration accountable or that politics is bad or 
that your momma was fat.  My point was JUST that you shouldn't use "a tragic 
event such as this to support an unresponsive political effort".  When 
Frenchy granted that he was done as far as i was concerned.  But nooooooo...

Michael Korcok





From GatorDebate  Mon Sep 12 10:07:43 2005
From: GatorDebate (GatorDebate at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:07:43 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] Patrick Waldinger or someone at BC
Message-ID: <19e.3b9a3d05.3056f3bf@aol.com>

Joe Carver asked me to forward this message to edebate
 
_____________________________________________________________________________
I have a student who is looking for contact information for Patrick  
Waldinger or a representative from BC. I would appreciate it if someone could  forward 
it along to the address below. Thank you.

Joseph Carver
_jcarver at carrollton.org_ (mailto:jcarver at carrollton.org) 


***************************************************

Frank P.  Irizarry
Debate Coach/Lecturer/Doctoral Student
University of  Florida
Center for Written and Oral Communication
413 Rolfs Hall
PO Box  112032
Gainesville, FL 32611-2032
Tel: 352-392-5421 (Office)
Tel:  386-216-3193 (Cell)
Fax: 352-392-5420
Gatordebate at aol.com

"Then I  got myself a factory job, I ran an old machine
And I bought a little cottage  in a neighborhood serene
And every night when I'd come home with every muscle  sore
She'd drag me through the streets of Baltimore
Well I did my best to  bring her back to what she used to be
Then I soon learned she loved those  bright lights more than she loved me
Now I'm a going back on that same train  that brought me here before
While my baby walks the streets of  Baltimore"
- Gram Parsons, "Streets of  Baltimore"


***************************************************

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050912/8e143c92/attachment.html 


From mrberry  Mon Sep 12 10:34:54 2005
From: mrberry (Berry, Mike)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:34:54 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] ADA rules updates
Message-ID: <C7119E0BB2397742875020505B5DEB8C01A0D74A@mail02.kings.edu>

A complete copy of the updated ADA rules can be found at
www.kings.edu/debate

Mike Berry
King's College
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050912/7a052510/attachment.htm 


From debate.gsu  Mon Sep 12 10:44:15 2005
From: debate.gsu (Dr. Joe Bellon)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:44:15 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] 2 Important Judging Rules for the GSU Tournament
Message-ID: <e06af37d05091208442065dbd2@mail.gmail.com>

We wanted you to keep two things in mind while starting to consider
your strike sheets and your pool of judges.

1. If one of your judges does not show up for a debate they have been
assigned to, we will pick another one of your judges and add a round
to their committment. Last year, we lost over 15 rounds of judging to
absent judges.

2. Debaters, when filling out your prefs, please be aware that you
MUST rank a judge as "constrained" if you think they are constrained
against you. In other words, just for example, if you are sleeping
with them, then you cannot rank them as a 1 (or anything else other
than "constrained"). Again, this became an issue for us in several
debates last year.

I'll re-post this closer to when pref sheets become active, along with
other pref sheet info.

We look forward to seeing y'all in Atlanta.

-Joe




From frappier  Mon Sep 12 12:46:43 2005
From: frappier (Frappier, Glen)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:46:43 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] Gonzaga Tournament
Message-ID: <36AE85DCADCA72409DD873C729D1AB9709BE9360@gem.gonzaga.edu>

 
If you are planning on entering the GU tournament, or if you have entry changes (teams or judges) that need to be made, please do that ASAP.  Greg is going to activate the judge preferences sometime this evening so we'd like to have all the entry info as correct as possible. Greg will send out an email to indicate when you may begin entering your prefs online.  I'd also like to announce that Sarah Holbrook will be arriving in Spokane this Thursday to serve as our hospitality coordinator. You might remember Sarah from her work on other tournament parties such as The NDT and West Georgia. Rest assured, your hospitality is in good hands.

First round on the new topic starts at 12pm on Friday.  Email me if you have any questions. 
 
Glen
 




From scottelliott  Mon Sep 12 12:51:00 2005
From: scottelliott (scottelliott at grandecom.net)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:51:00 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Interesting Chnia Quote
Message-ID: <1126547460.4325c004e9717@webmail.grandecom.net>

"The H5N1 strain has haunted the world since it made its debut in humans in
1997. It is now endemic in parts of Asia, where it has killed more than 60
people since late 2003.

The crisis deepened this year when wild migratory birds began dying from it in
central China and experts have since warned that species which survive could
carry the virus all over Europe and Africa within the next two migrating
seasons.

So far, the virus has been detected in regions north of China in Kazakhstan,
Russia and Mongolia. It has also been found in China's southwestern regions of
Xinjiang and Tibet, which hangs just over Nepal and the rest of the Indian
subcontinent. "





From oguevara  Mon Sep 12 14:34:12 2005
From: oguevara (Omar G Guevara)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:34:12 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] Surpirse 3 rounds available for judging at Gonzaga
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV905CDC7D9055C900E0DA0D39D0@phx.gbl>

Last minute drop from one of debaters means we have:

3 rounds, $75 bucks

ahh the best laid plans of mice & (wo)men....

og
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050912/3b50a80e/attachment.html 


From neesen  Mon Sep 12 15:04:46 2005
From: neesen (neesen at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:04:46 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Come to graduate school at Long Beach
Message-ID: <8C785EC5B72AB28-C08-12917@FWM-D29.sysops.aol.com>

coach and get a master at Long Beach next year 
The faculty and staff of CSU Long Beach would like to invite qualified candidates to apply to the graduate program in Communication Studies, at CSULB. Several issues make Long Beach an excellent place to study and coach forensics. 

1. Long Beach is a great place to live. There is not much to explain. If you have visited you know that it is sunny and warm most of the year. Long Beach is approximately 45 minutes south of Los Angeles.

2. We have a very good success rate at placing our students in doctoral programs. Although many of our students choose to teach at the community college level or to enter industry, each year several students go on to attend top doctoral programs in the country. We currently have students working on degrees at the University of Texas at Austin, Purdue, Penn State, and Utah. 

3. We have a very high success rate of getting graduate students jobs in local community colleges. In recent years, graduates of CSULB have been hired at numerous West coast colleges, including Orange Coast College, Long Beach City College, Santiago Canyon College, South Orange County, Palomar, Southwestern, Rio Hondo, and Vanguard University. 

4. The faculty and administration of CSULB are dedicated to the continued development of a nationally active policy debate, parliamentary debate, and individual event program. Over the last seven years we have seen a 400% increase in our budget and are able to support a full commitment to all three areas of intercollegiate forensics. 

5. Teaching assistantships and out of state tuition waivers are available for all qualified candidates. 
To find out more about the Graduate application process visit the Department of Communication Studies Web Site: http://www.csulb.edu/depts/comstudies/
Or contact Bill Neesen @ neesen at aol.com
__________________
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050912/4060ed08/attachment.htm 


From oguevara  Mon Sep 12 15:06:58 2005
From: oguevara (Omar G Guevara)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:06:58 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] No more rounds for sale
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV84DB37FDD0C35B057FE7FD39D0@phx.gbl>

All sold for zaga. thanks!

omar
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050912/958462f2/attachment.html 


From kate.ryzoc  Mon Sep 12 18:14:52 2005
From: kate.ryzoc (Kate Ryzoc)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:14:52 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Law School and Debate
Message-ID: <3f31c7b10509121614dec526a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone!
 I am currently a debater at Vanderbilt, and (like a good percentage of 
other debaters) I am applying for law school for Aug 06. I was wondering if 
anyone knows of debate scholarships or programs will pay tuition or 
something if you coach. Any help would be awesome!
 Katie

-- 
Kate Ryzoc
Vanderbilt University
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050912/be4a8742/attachment.htm 


From Pacedebate  Mon Sep 12 23:24:29 2005
From: Pacedebate (Pacedebate at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 00:24:29 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] greenhill
Message-ID: <13e.1b67484d.3057ae7d@aol.com>

I have a judge, Daniel Dawer, coming up for Greenhill that needs a ride  from 
Austin. He needs to leave after class on Friday (anytime after 2 pm) and he  
can go back Sunday night or in the morning on Monday in time for his afternoon 
 class.
If you can hook him up with a ride I can hook you up with some cash to  cover 
your gas. Drop us a backchannel if you think you can help either one way  or 
round trip.
 
Thanks,
 
 
 
Tim  Mahoney
Director of Debate, St. Mark's School of Texas
10600 Preston  Road
Dallas, TX 75230
214-346-8141 (office)
214-734-3673  (cell)
425-740-9130 (fax)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/57acae8d/attachment.html 


From melissa_anne_edebate  Tue Sep 13 01:21:54 2005
From: melissa_anne_edebate (melissa anne newton)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 02:21:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Extra room in your UNI hotel room for a male debater?
Message-ID: <20050913062154.0A0653DC7@xprdmailfe9.nwk.excite.com>

If so, please back channel me asap. Thanks in advance,

Melissa Newton
Assistant Director of Debate
Kansas State University


?Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds. [?] Won?t you help to sing- these songs of freedom??
 
- Bob Marley, Redemption Song

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!





From gregachten  Tue Sep 13 05:38:39 2005
From: gregachten (ACHTEN, GREGORY ALAN)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:38:39 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] Gonzaga Judge Preferences Initialized
Message-ID: <web-10105277@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>

You may now enter yoru judge preferences for Gonzaga at www.debateresults.com They are due by noon 
on Thursday and must be completed online.

If you have questions let me know unless it is a problem with the site in which case you should 
email Jon Bruschke directly.

Greg




From jwpatt00  Tue Sep 13 08:35:36 2005
From: jwpatt00 (JW Patterson)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:35:36 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] The First Quals: Grapevine TX
Message-ID: <BF4C4DE8.1835A%jwpatt00@uky.edu>


PLEASE NOTE:  SCHOOLS DEBATING UNDER AN INDEPENDENT NAME AS OPPOSED TO THEIR
SCHOOL NAME CANNOT BE CERTIFIED FOR A BID.  SUCH BIDS WILL NOT COUNT TOWARD
QUALIFICATION TO THE TOC.
> 
> DEADLINES: BOTH FULLY-QUALIFIED AND AT-LARGE APPLICATIONS WITH FEES ARE DUE IN
> LEXINGTON BY MARCH 15, 2006. PLEASE NOTE, NOT POSTMARKED ON THIS DATE, BUT IN
> LEXINGTON BY THIS DATE.
> 
> THE ROAD TO THE FIFTH TOC OF THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY
> DATES: SATURDAY, SUNDAY, MONDAY
>  APRIL 29, APRIL 30, AND MAY 1, 2006
>  
> TOURNAMENT HOTEL: RAMADA INN (ASK FOR INTERNET ACCESSIBILITY)
> 
> PHONE # - 859-299-1261   (Hotel is rapidly filling)
> 
> DISCLAIMER:  THE RESULTS POSTED FROM EACH TOURNAMENT ARE ALWAYS SUBJECT TO
> CHANGE IF THE TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR REPORTS THAT A MISTAKE WAS MADE IN THE
> ORIGINAL CERTIFICATION.  IT SHOULD ALSO BE NOTED THAT THE NAMES ARE SPELLED AS
> REPORTED BY THE TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR AND ARE SUBJECT TO CORRECTION IF A
> MISSPELLING HAS APPEARED.
> 
> 1) TOURNAMENT DIRECTORS PLEASE NOTE: WHEN CERTIFYING THE TOC QUALIFIERS PLEASE
> INCLUDE FULL NAME, SCHOOL, AND STATE OF THE DEBATERS.
> 
> 2) COACHES AND DEBATERS PLEASE NOTE:  A DEBATER IN LD OR A TEAM IN POLICY MUST
> ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE IN A QUALIFYING ROUND TO RECEIVE A TOC 'BID.' IN OTHER
> WORDS, IF A DEBATER OR TEAM DOES NOT DEBATE THE ROUND FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY
> CANNOT RECEIVE A TOC 'BID' FOR THAT ROUND. THIS REQUIREMENT WAS OVERWHELMINGLY
> RECOMMENDED BY THE TOC ADVISORY COMMITTEE .
> 
> GRAPEVINE (TX)
> 
> JANE BOYD, director of the first TOC qualifying tournament of the 2005-6
school year held at   >Grapevine HS in Texas has certified the TOC qualifiers
for 2006.  Grapevine is a TOC Qualifier in >both Lincoln Douglas and Policy
Debate at the semi-Finals level


> LINCOLN DOUGLAS  
> 
                John Lewis                          Memorial (TX)
                Douglas Jeffers,                  Dulles (TX)
                Katherine Thompson,          Greenhill School (TX)
                Daniel Cory                         Jersey Village (TX)

     POLICY
 
             Sam Shore and JR Sterling              Greenhill School (TX)
             RJ Giglio and Sam Crichton             Caddo Magnet, (LA)
             Lawren Tilney and Max Hantel         The Kinkaid School (Texas)
             Stephen Polley and Matt Andrews   Greenhill School (TX)



Sincerely,
JW Patterson
TOC Director and Founder


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/978ba092/attachment.htm 


From delliott  Tue Sep 13 09:18:19 2005
From: delliott (Darren Elliott)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:18:19 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] KCK Tourney Invite
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.1.20050913091743.01bb7e00@kckcc.toto.net>

Friends,

Please plan on joining us in October for the 4th Annual Blue Devil 
Debates.  We plan to continue the tradition started two years ago in 
Honoring our judges and competitors with awards voted on by the 
debaters.  Additionally we will again present the Coaching Award and the 
Dr. Amy Fugate Leadership Award.  Last year's  recipients were James Taylor 
of ESU winning the Coaching Award and Jeff Jarman of Wichita State 
receiving the Leadership Award.  I look forward to presenting this year's 
awards as well.  We may also be continuing a  tradition of going out one 
evening for a Night of Jazz with Coaches who are interested.  Likewise just 
3 miles to the West of campus is Village West.  It has become the 
entertainment, dining, and shopping mecca of Kansas and the Mid-West.  It 
has moved Kansas up 15 spots in tourism among all states 
nationwide.  Anything you could want to eat or buy is now available just 
minutes from the Campus.  I encourage everyone to check it out--especially 
BBQ fans! : )

Thanks,
Chief

September 2005

Dear Colleagues:

On behalf of Kansas City Kansas Community College, Blue Devil Debate, and 
the Humanities and Fine Arts Division, it is my pleasure to invite you and 
your students to the 3rd annual KCKCC Debate Tournament.  The debate 
tournament will be held Friday October 21st through Sunday October 23rd on 
the KCKCC campus in Kansas City, Kansas.  Registration for the tournament 
will be on Friday at the college.  In this invitation you will find the 
necessary hotel information, schedule, and entry form.  Please call for 
your rooms now as rooms in KC are hard to come by.

We will be offering three divisions of policy debate on the current 
NDT/CEDA topic for 2005-2006.  You may submit teams in Open, JV, and Novice 
divisions.  We will break to an appropriate number of elims in each 
division and will do everything within reason to not have to collapse 
divisions.  As per the new CEDA rule governing sweeps, we will break ? the 
teams in all divisions.  Speaker awards will also be given in each division.

If you have any questions regarding the tournament, please do not hesitate 
to call or email.  We look forward to hosting you on our campus in October.

Sincerely,

Darren Elliott
Director of Debate
(913)288-7295 --office
<mailto:delliott at toto.net>delliott at toto.net

                                 KCKCC Schedule

Friday, October 21st

2:00pm          Registration 1st Floor Humanities Building TV Lounge
3:00pm          Round I, preset
5:30pm          Round II, preset
9:00pm          Regional Meeting/All Coaches Reception at Tournament Suite

Saturday, October 22nd

7:15am             Release pairings at KCKCC Humanities 1st floor TV Lounge
8:00am             Round III (High-High)
11:00am           Round IV (High-Low)
1:00-2:30pm    Lunch Break (Served on campus)
3:00pm             Round V (High-High)
6:00pm             Round VI (High-Low)
ASAP              Release list of Elim participants at Hotels
10:00pm           All Coaches Reception at Tournament Suite

Sunday, October 12th

8:00am             Awards Assembly Lower Level Jewell Building/Release of 
Pairings
9:45am             Elim Round 1
12:30               Elim Round 2
3:30                 Elim Round 3
6:00                 Elim Round 4

KCKCC Tournament Information

DIVISIONS   We will be offering Open, Junior Varsity, and Novice 
Divisions.  Please follow the CEDA guidelines for entering your team in the 
correct division.  We will only collapse divisions if ABSOLUTELY 
necessary.  We will break to the appropriate number of elims based on CEDA 
sweeps points regulations and number of entries in a division.  We will 
break ? the teams in each division.   If a division does collapse we will 
still give awards based on how a team finishes in comparison to other teams 
who would have been eligible for the less experienced division.

ENTRIES        Please have your entries to me as soon as possible.  I would 
like them no later than Oct. 19th.

TIME LIMITS     Time limits will be 9-3-6 with 10 minutes of prep time per 
team.



JUDGING      Each school is expected to provide qualified judges to 
accompany their teams.  You are responsible for three rounds of judging for 
every one team entered.  All judges are committed through the first elim 
debate or one round past their teams' elimination, whichever occurs first. 
Please do your best to hire judges if you need to as opposed to trying to 
hire them through us.  If you do need to hire a judge, the fee will be 
$120.00 per uncovered team.  Please give me plenty of notice if you need to 
hire someone.  If you are bringing extra judges, let me know how many 
rounds they would like to be hired for.

                         Judges MUST render a decision by marking a loser 
and a winner of each debate.  Only one team can win and only one can 
lose.  Judges not following this will have their ballot changed with a coin 
toss and have their best team's record altered by forfeiting a win at the 
conclusion of prelims.

                         We plan on using some sort of judge preference 
system depending on entries and availability.

FEES            The registration fee will be $75.00 per team entered.  We 
will provide Breakfast on Saturday as well as lunch.  We will provide 
breakfast on Sunday morning as well.  We will provide drinks and snacks 
throughout the weekend.  Cash is the preferred method of payment so we can 
pay our vendors over the weekend.  A check is the second best option--made 
out to "Darren Elliott--KCKCC Debate".  Unfortunately we cannot take Visa, 
Mastercard, or Discover at this time.  Bartering for chickens, and pigs is 
always negotiable.

SMOKING    Please do not smoke inside buildings on the KCKCC 
campus.  Smoking areas and containers for cigarette butts are located 
outside throughout the campus.

TEAMS          Teams should be comprised of two debaters from the same 
school or two debaters, each from a different school.  All teams, including 
hybrids will be allowed to advance to elims and win speaker awards.  KCKCC 
debaters may participate in the tournament and advance to elim 
rounds.  Three-Person teams will be allowed although if multiple 
three-person teams (2 from different schools) become a reality I will try 
and get coaches together to make two-person hybrids out of their extra 
debaters.

AWARDS       Teams reaching the elimination debates will receive 
awards.  An appropriate number of speaker awards will be given in each 
division as well.  Collapsed divisions if it has to happen will still be 
awarded based on finish in comparison to other teams from the less 
experienced division that was collapsed.

BRACKETS               Brackets will not be broken in elimination debates.

HOTEL INFO            We have secured rooms at one Host Hotel this 
year.  The Microtel is within 3-5 minutes of campus.  Please make 
reservations ASAP.  The hotel is located right off of I70 and 78th St exit 
in Kansas City (Exit #414).

Ask for "kckccde" to get the tournament rate.

They have blocked
25 Doubles (2 queen beds)                               @ $54.00nt
5 Suites (1 Qn bed 1 full size sofa sleeper)    @ $60.00nt
5 Singles (1 Queen bed)                                   @ $50.00nt

Their number is (913)334-3028.  Their fax number is (913)334-5983.
They are located at 7721 Elizabeth St.  Kansas City, KS 66112.

TRANSPORTATION           If you are flying in to KCI and need a shuttle to 
the hotel, please let me know no later than Oct. 19th.  There will be a 
charge of $10.00 per person each way.

                         If you are driving from the East:  Take I70 
through Kansas City, MO and into Kansas City, KS.  You will see signs for 
KCKCC just before the turn off for the campus.  You want to take the Turner 
Diagonal/Highway 40 Exit.  Stay to the right onto Highway 40.  Stay on 
until State Avenue.  Turn left onto State and at the first right, which is 
College Blvd., turn right into the college.  Follow the road around (please 
don't hit our ducks) until you see the Humanities building on your 
right.  Park anywhere you can find a space in front of Humanities.  Enter 
the Humanities building and go down two flights of stairs to the 
registration area/TV lounge.

                         If you are driving from the West:  Take I70 to 
Kansas City and take the Highway 40 exit.  You will be driving under the 
Turner Diagonal then rounding back on to it heading North.  When you come 
to State Avenue turn left.  The entrance to KCKCC will be on your immediate 
right at College Blvd.  Once turning on to College Blvd. follow the road 
around (please don't hit our ducks) until you see the Humanities building 
on your right.  Park anywhere you can find a space in front of 
Humanities.  Enter the Humanities building and go down two flights of 
stairs to the registration area/TV lounge.

                         If you are coming from the North or South:  Take 
I35 until you reach I70.  Take I70 and follow the first set of directions 
listed above.

PARKING      You will not be ticketed by parking in the lot in front of 
Humanities Friday, Saturday, or Sunday unless you park in a Handicapped or 
Reserved stall.  All unmarked and Visitor stalls are fine to park in.  You 
also need to park head-in to avoid being ticketed.

SEXUAL HARRASSMENT      The CEDA statement on Sexual Harassment will be upheld.

STATE LAW  All tournament participants, coaches and judges are expected to 
adhere to the laws of the State of Kansas.  Alcohol and illegal substance 
consumption on campus is strictly prohibited by these laws and will result 
in removal from the tournament.

                 KCKCC Team Policy Entry Form-return to Darren Elliott

School ____________________________________

Coach     ____________________________________

Address  ____________________________________

Office # ____________________________________

Home #   ____________________________________

Fax      ____________________________________

Email    ____________________________________

Open Division: (use more space if necessary)

1. ________________________________and_____________________________

2. ________________________________and_____________________________

3. ________________________________and_____________________________

4. ________________________________and_____________________________

Junior Varsity Division: (use more space if necessary)

1._____________________________and_________________________________

2._____________________________and_________________________________

3._____________________________and_________________________________

4._____________________________and_________________________________

Novice Division: (use more space if necessary)

1._____________________________and_________________________________

2._____________________________and_________________________________

3._____________________________and_________________________________

4._____________________________and_________________________________

Judges:  Please indicate commitment for each judge and any team 
restrictions.  We ask that schools with multiple teams do your best to 
secure multiple judges for elims.  Only having one judge available on elim 
day makes it difficult on tournament administration.  (use more space if 
necessary)

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Please send the entry to Darren Elliott.  Email is preferable.  Phone is 
second best.  Fax if you must!  You can also enter on the Bruschke 
Website.  I will download from that site periodically but always confirm 
via email if you do not hear from me.

delliott at toto.net               Office-(913)288-7295 
FAX-(913)288-7638

If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to call or 
email me.  We hope to see you in October in Kansas City.

Darren Elliott
Director of Debate
KCKCC
7250 State Avenue
Kansas City, KS  66112
delliott at toto.net
(913)288-7295   office
(913)288-7638   fax
  (316)214-9502  cell
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/7f535799/attachment.html 


From crockettclay  Tue Sep 13 09:23:43 2005
From: crockettclay (clay crockett)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:23:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Erin Conley
Message-ID: <20050913142344.73588.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Could you please backchannel me...thanks
Clay Crockett
KCKCC Debate

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/ca7f5df8/attachment.htm 


From hunt  Tue Sep 13 10:35:16 2005
From: hunt (hunt at lclark.edu)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:35:16 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] Lewis & Clark invite
Message-ID: <2147483647.1126600516@howard-18-178.lclark.edu>


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Pio Invitation 2005.6619DEFANGED-doc
Type: application/defanged
Size: 39936 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/ce245d57/attachment.bin 


From korryharvey  Tue Sep 13 11:32:23 2005
From: korryharvey (Korry Harvey)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:32:23 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] stop blaming bush for katrina failure
Message-ID: <BAY103-F23F28CFE3E557F7CFD803BA39C0@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/ba05754c/attachment.htm 


From korryharvey  Tue Sep 13 11:38:06 2005
From: korryharvey (Korry Harvey)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:38:06 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] kucinich on katrina
Message-ID: <BAY103-F1189B89915D70FDEF40207A39C0@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/187bc51b/attachment.html 


From scottelliott  Tue Sep 13 12:28:41 2005
From: scottelliott (scottelliott at grandecom.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:28:41 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Topic Suggestion for next year.
Message-ID: <1126632521.43270c49f0807@webmail.grandecom.net>

Pretty obvious but someone who needs a conference paper should research and
produce a topic paper on the follwoing subject:

Resolved: The USFG should substantially improve is domestic emergency
preparedness programs.

Scott






From tlyden  Tue Sep 13 14:57:50 2005
From: tlyden (todd lyden)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:57:50 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] Guess you can blame Bush?
Message-ID: <BAY103-F3335A3885215D3EFBB9313C19C0@phx.gbl>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/13/AR2005091300588.html?sub=AR

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: "todd lyden" <tlyden at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [eDebate] stop blaming bush for katrina failure
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:47:49 +0000
Size: 1643
Url: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/70301a3b/attachment.mht 


From scottelliott  Tue Sep 13 15:09:45 2005
From: scottelliott (scottelliott at grandecom.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:09:45 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Blaming Bush--ok you win.
Message-ID: <1126642185.43273209c42f6@webmail.grandecom.net>

Ok You liberal have won.

We can blame Bush. Do you feel warm and fuzzy now.
Tell you what. I will go a step further---I refuse to vote for George Bush in
the next election. That will teach him to uphold federalism in the wake of a
hurricane.

Wow. I am sure Democrats have really accomplished something by getting Bush to
admit that mistakes were made. MMM fuzziness for everyone. $10,000 FEMA cards
for all. Ye haw.

Scott






From jakethompsondebate  Tue Sep 13 18:42:59 2005
From: jakethompsondebate (jacob thompson)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:42:59 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] UNI casebook info
Message-ID: <BAY107-F107D7C3FE011FE9A01BF3FC59C0@phx.gbl>

In the hopes of having a very extensive and in-depth casebook at this year's 
UNI season opener, we invite you to submit your casebook info before the 
tournament by filling out the attachment to this email and sending it to

UNI-CASEBOOK at gmail.com

We will also be requesting that you submit information on aff cases at 
registration, so if you're still writing the 1AC in the van on the way here, 
put it on a memory stick and bring cites, arguments, etc with you to 
registration.

As per the tournament invite we will not publish the first version of the 
casebook until round 2 when everyone has had a chance to be aff.  Updates of 
the casebook will be available on edebate and at the tab table periodically.

Thanks for your cooperation.  Please send in infoo ASAP.  If you have an aff 
that you're not planning to break until later in the tourney, consider 
submitting that to us as well.  We'll hold off on publishing it until you 
have told us that you ran it.





From trond  Tue Sep 13 19:23:38 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:23:38 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Google single word 'failure'
Message-ID: <20050913202338.6w8t7dsdz448ooww@web.mail.umich.edu>

Enter 'failure' into basic Google search without quotes and note first hit.

Nice.  Very nice.

Gotta love the Page Rank algorithm.

Trond E. Jacobsen




From jouissance83  Tue Sep 13 19:38:49 2005
From: jouissance83 (Jen S)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:38:49 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] S. Bauschard , please respond
Message-ID: <BAY104-F211F0C6C13C7D95609129FD49F0@phx.gbl>

Stefan-
This is in regards to Lakeland High School debate...  Gimme a backchannel 
some time at jen.schramm at gmail.com or schramm at law.fordham.edu


Jennifer Schramm
NYU Debate 2005





From frappier  Tue Sep 13 20:42:35 2005
From: frappier (Frappier, Glen)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:42:35 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] Gonzaga casebook info
Message-ID: <36AE85DCADCA72409DD873C729D1AB9709BE938A@gem.gonzaga.edu>

Jake beat me to the punch on this one. Gonzaga will also be producing 
a caslist at our tournament this weekend. While I won't yet vouch for its potential depth or even 
usefulness, we'll do our best to make it as comprehensive as possible. 
I don't want anyone emailing me anything in advance of the tournament, mainly
since we will have teams entered and I can't be trusted. However, if you'll bring
electronic outlines of your 1AC w/plan texts and cites,  this would seriously assist the 
intell gathering process during the tournament. 
 
Thanks.  See all of you this weekend. That is all.
 
Glen
 




From kenedebate  Tue Sep 13 21:44:33 2005
From: kenedebate (Ken DeLaughder)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:44:33 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] GSU logistics!
In-Reply-To: <e06af37d05091208442065dbd2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY102-F3F8D824B2CF6ADD14478AD99F0@phx.gbl>

Last year we used an airport shuttle service to get to the hotel.  JT says 
that we don't need a car since the taxis are plentiful.  Anyone know any 
good airport shuttles, I cant find the number of the one we used last year.

Thanks in advance, we look forward to being in the South!

Ken D.
ESU Debate

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From Mikedavis13  Tue Sep 13 21:56:46 2005
From: Mikedavis13 (Mikedavis13 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:56:46 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] GSU logistics!
Message-ID: <142.4d2869b8.3058eb6e@aol.com>


The exclusive shuttle from the airport to downtown is The Atlanta Link.  
Their website is:
 
_http://www.theatlantalink.com/_ (http://www.theatlantalink.com/) 
 
A cab ride to the hotel is about $25-$35, but I am not sure how they would  
charge if you had a bunch of tubs.
 
Mike
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/8aa4ba07/attachment.html 


From sykesjason  Tue Sep 13 22:35:41 2005
From: sykesjason (Jason Sykes)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:35:41 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] CX-L?
Message-ID: <0bcc01c5b8dd$61c99050$6701a8c0@SYKES>

Did I miss something?  Anyone know what happened to the CX-L listserv?

Thanks,
Jason
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050913/94172e42/attachment.htm 


From jakethompsondebate  Tue Sep 13 22:41:50 2005
From: jakethompsondebate (jacob thompson)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:41:50 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] UNI casebook correction
Message-ID: <BAY107-F23F73625E31887A44CC420C59F0@phx.gbl>

OK, so I was given, and consequently gave the wrong email address for our 
casebook compendium.

In the hopes of having a very extensive and in-depth casebook at  this 
year's UNI season opener, we invite you to submit your  casebook info before 
the tournament by filling out the attachment  to this email and sending it 
to:

UNICASEBOOK at gmail.com (THIS IS THE CORRECT EMAIL ADDRESS WITHOUT A HYPHEN)

We will also be requesting that you submit information on aff cases  at 
registration, so if you're still writing the 1AC in the van on  the way 
here, put it on a memory stick and bring cites, arguments,  etc with you to 
registration.

As per the tournament invite we will not publish the first version  of the 
casebook until round 2 when everyone has had a chance to be  aff.  Updates 
of the casebook will be available on edebate and at  the tab table 
periodically.

Thanks for your cooperation.  Please send in infoo ASAP.  If you  have an 
aff that you're not planning to break until later in the  tourney, consider 
submitting that to us as well.  We'll hold off on  publishing it until you 
have told us that you ran it.





From debatekorea  Wed Sep 14 06:12:30 2005
From: debatekorea (Jason Jarvis)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:12:30 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Northeast Asian Open Debate Championship
In-Reply-To: <EC4574932077204D842BA9B66FBCD92C211A44@cmex2.MCKENNA.EDU>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F2137A9358E4A1B80C9DD8DAE9F0@phx.gbl>

Greetings!

I am pleased to announce that we will once again be holding the Northeast 
Asian Open Debate Championship.

This year's competition will be at the Yonsei University campus, located in 
Seoul, Korea.

The competition will take place on the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th of November.

The tournament will use the All Asians format.  The adjudication team for 
the competition is:

Chief Adjudicator: Jason Jarvis, Kyung Hee University
Deputy Chief Adjudicator: Brendan Howe, Ewha University
External DCA: ...to be announced, asap!....

There is a total team cap of 30 teams and an instiutional cap of 4 teams per 
school (institutions may add extra teams to a waiting list)

The registration fees are as follows:

Domestic participants: W30,000 per person (no hotel included)

International Participants: $160 US dollars  (hotel included for Nov 3rd, 
4th, 5th, and 6th)

Adjudication requirements: for every two teams entered, an institution must 
register one adjudicator (N/2)

Participants will be housed in the Seoul Backpacker's Deluxe, a boutique 
hostel located in heart of central Seoul and adjacent to numerous palaces 
and local hotspots!

The registration deadline for the competition is October 18th, and the 
website for the competition with complete details will be operational within 
the next week or so.  Registration procedures will be available on the 
website (complete with a bank account and rego form).  When it is ready, an 
additional announcement will be made, along with a confirmation of the 
external DCA.

If you have additional questions please email:
debatekorea at gmail.com, debatekorea at yahoo.com

regards,

Jason



Jason L. Jarvis
Director of Debate, International Center for Speech and Debate
Kyung Hee University, Seoul , Korea
*********
Asian Debate Institute
http://debatekorea.blogspirit.com
**********
Korea Debate Listserv
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/koreadebatelist/





From trond  Wed Sep 14 08:15:30 2005
From: trond (trond at umich.edu)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:15:30 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Guess you can blame Bush?
Message-ID: <20050914091530.vkwvb33lwgo0oc08@web.mail.umich.edu>

A little late in coming and does nothing correct what I view as earlier errors,
including cronyism and indifference.  It also rings somewhat hollow as his
minions continue to spread lies about the lack of request for federal
intervention and the administration engages in a massive PR campaign seemingly
more focused on healing his image than those who are hurting.

Still, I do give this president credit for admitting responsbility re: a share
of Katrina failures.  Partially because it is the leaderly thing to do and
partially because it shows some willingness to deviate from the "never
apologize and then smear" tactic characteristic of Rove.

Again, it does not make all things right but it is a move in the right direction
and as one who has criticized the President for many things, including an
earlier unwillingess to step up and accept at least some responsibility, I
thought I should give him some credit publicly in that place where I have most
strongly criticized him.

Trond E. Jacobsen




From jwpatt00  Wed Sep 14 09:27:58 2005
From: jwpatt00 (JW Patterson)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:27:58 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Kentucky Update Number 4
Message-ID: <BF4DABAE.183E6%jwpatt00@uky.edu>

PLEASE CHECK THE UPDATED LIST BELOW.

REMEMBER TO MAKE YOUR HOTEL RESERVATIONS.  ONCE AGAIN, THE HENRY CLAY IS
COMPETING WITH THE OPENING OF THE KEENLAND RACE TRACK AS WELL AS A HOME
FOOTBALL GAME.  EVEN THOUGH KENTUCKY ALMOST ALWAYS LOSES ITS FOOTBALL GAMES,
67,000 HOPEFUL FANS STILL ATTEND.

NO HIRED JUDGES AVAILABLE
UNFORTUNATELY, THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY CANNOT PROVIDE HIRED JUDGES.  EACH
SCHOOL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN JUDGING OBLIGATIONS.

                        UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY

                           HENRY CLAY DEBATES
                PRE-SEASON NOVICE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

                       October 8th, 9th, and 10th
                        (Saturday, Sunday, Monday)

TOURNAMENT HOTEL:  RAMADA INN, 859-299-1261 EXT 158
                   [ ALL ROOMS HAVE WIRELESS INTERNET ]

HENRY CLAY ENTRIES:

*Indicates eligibility for the Pre-Season Novice National Championships

AUGUSTANA COLLEGE

    1.  Jason Bantle and John Siadak
    2.  Amber Dismer and Becca Richardson
    3.  Brian Honeyman and Amanda Freel

    JUDGES
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

BERKELEY, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT

    1.  Nick Lin and Reid Shannon
    2.  Craig Wickersham and Michael Burshteyn
    3.  Josh Garen and Daniel Richards

    JUDGES
    1.  Dave Arnette
    2.  Greg Achten

BOSTON COLLEGE

    1.  Mandy Castle & Allen Best

    JUDGES:
    1.  Patrick Waldinger

CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY

    1.  Jeff Pope/Dan Cerulo
 
    JUDGE
    1.  Mike Pomorski (4 Rounds)

CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY

    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA
    3.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

DARTMOUTH COLLEGE
    
    1. Hunter Brooks and David Marks
    2. Kathryn Clark and Brian Smith
    3. Sara del Nido and Sarah Wukoson
    4. Josh Kernoff and Kade Olsen
    5. TBA *
    6. TBA *

    JUDGES
    1.  Charles Olney (6)
    2.  Eric Slusher (6)
    3.  Ken Strange (6)
    4.  John Turner (6)

FLORIDA, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Brianna Coakley and Vince Binder

    JUDGES:  
    1.  Marissa Silber
GEORGE WASHINGTON

    1.  Brian Linder and Brett Walace

    JUDGE
    1.  Jacob Weigler

GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY

    1.  Eryn Schultz and Jonathan Gingerich
    2.  Endy Mageto and Cameron O'Bannon

    Judges:
    1.  Kenda Cunningham
    2.  TBA

GEORGIA, UNIVERSITY OF

    1. Brent Culpepper/Kevin Rabinowitz
    2. Spencer Diamond/Todd Mitchell
    3. Adam Schmidt/Adam Grellinger
    4. Andrew Hart/Shivan Bhatt
    5. Duncan Meisel/Roi Ceren *

    JUDGES
    1. Jarrod Atchison
    2. Chris McIntosh
    3. Eric Jenkins

GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY

    1.  Joel Lemuel and Marisa Fagan
    2.  Regina Summers and Shannon Watson
 
    JUDGES:
    1.  Joe Bellon
    2.  Paul Mabrey

GONZAGA UNIVERSITY

    1. Nick Bormann/Charlie Hutchison
    2. Ben Dodds/Jon Williamson
    3. Emily Christensen/Grace Saez
    4. Brent Hamilton/Melissa Hanna*

    JUDGES
    1. Glen Frappier (4 Rounds)
    2. Sam Maurer (4 Rounds)
    3. Omar Guevera (8 rounds)

IDAHO STATE UNIVERSITY
    
    1.Jessica Yeats and Izak Dunn
    
    JUDGES
    1.  Sarah Partlow - (available for hire for 3)
    2.  Scott Odekirk - 2 rounds (available for hire for 4
    3.  John Foy - 2 rounds (available for hire for 4)

KANSAS

    1. Simonsen/Cormack
    2. Lathrop/Bricker
    3. Jennings/Johnson
    4. Wright/TBA

    JUDGES
    1. TBA

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

    1.  Mellisa Hurter / Lindsey Hoban
    2.  Amanda Costa / Glen Koch

    JUDGES
    1.  Hays Watson

LOUISVILLE, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Arayfael Guillement / Stacey Bradley
    2.  Sherah Isarael / Caress Russell
    3.  Paul Meinshausen / Saheter Cook
    4.  Deven Cooper / Shauntrice Martin

    JUDGES
    David Peterson -8
    Hire for 8

MARY WASHINGTON, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Clint Woods and Nick Ryan
    2.  Leslie Wyatt and Sean Jansen

    JUDGES
    1.  Heather Barnes

MIAMI (OH) UNIVERSIITY
    1.  Mike Jensen and Mike Richardson
    2.  Matt Kern and Stephen Solomon
    3.  Jon Gair and Aaron Vinson
    4.  Mike Maffie and TBA
    5.  Ilya Galperin and TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  Jim Cherney - 6
    2.  Lincoln Bisbee - 3
    3.  Ben Voth - 2
    4.  Steve Mancuso - 3
    5.  Erika Thomas - 6

MICHIGAN, UNIVERSITY OF
    
    1. Brandi Villarreal and Justin Joque
    2. Dylan Keenan and Adam Farra
    3. Erika Jerwick and Danny Farra

    JUDGES
    1.  Joshua Hoe
    2.  Scotty Gottbrecht
    3.  Aaron Kall

MISSOURI STATE UNIVERSITY
    1.  Matthias Bostick / Michael Mapes
    2.  Mike Kearney / Martin Osborn
    3.  Jessica Johnson / Clay Webb
    4.  Caleb Messer / Sheena Walters
    5.  Blake Moore / Laci Whiteaker
 
    Judges
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

NORTH TEXAS, UNIVERSITY OF
    
    1. Max Archer and Ben Patterson
    2. Kuntal Cholera and Rachel Schy

    JUDGES
    1. Calum Matheson
    2. Brian Lain

NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY
    1.  Josh Branson and Noah Chestnut
    2.  Avery Dale and Geoff Derrick
    3.  Rachel Haig and Ravi Shankar
    4.  Zack Brown and John Warden*
    5.  Caitlin Bruce and Stuart Crichton
    6.  Nathan Baum and Robbie Mulholland*
    7.  Charley Boynton and Mark Hammervold
    8.  Cameron Conner and Sasha Tuzel*

    JUDGES
    1.  LaTonya Starks -- 8
    2.  Luke Hill -- 8
    3.  Michael Greenstein -- 8
    4.  Tristan Morales -- 4
    5.  Tim Barouch -- 4

OKLAHOMA, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Conor Cleary and Blake Johnson

    JUDGES
    1.  Jason Russell

REDLANDS, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  TBA

RICHMOND, UNIVERSITY OF

    1. Nehal Shah & Ryan Smith
    2. Jonathan Ward & Liz Lauzon

    JUDGES
    1. Adrienne Brovero (4)
    2. Piero Mannino (4)

SAMFORD UNIVERSITY

    1. Chad Macumber & Erin Ramsey*
    2. Clark Bowers & Ashley Streat
    3. Nick Agnello & John Wilkerson

    JUDGES
    1.  Ben Coulter (6)
    2.  Ryan Galloway (6)

SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, UNIVERSITY OF
    1. Alex Iftimie & Brian Berggren
    2. Chris Jones & Mike Smith
    3. Matt Nadell & Tony Liao
    4. Clare Velasquez & Nick Fiori

    JUDGES
    1. Gordon Stables
    2. Brian McBride
    3. Adam Symonds
    4. Omri Ceren
    5. Shawn Powers

TEXAS, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Chris Thiele and Jenny Davis
    2.  Spencer Johnson and Benjamin Durham
    3.  Nick Scott and Alex Savage
    4.  Reid Jones and Jonathan Lewis *

    JUDGES
    1.  Varant Yegparian
    2.  Jonah Feldman

WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY

    1.  Jamie Carroll and Brad Hall
    2.  Elizabeth Gedmark and Chris Sedelmyer
    3.  J.T. Kittrell and John Patten
    4.  TBA
    5.  TBA
    6.  TBA
    7.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  Ross Smith
    2.  J.P. Lacy
    3.  TBA
    4.  TBA
    5.  TBA
    6.  TBA

WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY

    1.  Matt Farmer and Gabe Murillo
    2.  Frank Esposito and Andy Timmons
    3.  Jen Schraeder and Mike Markovic
    4.  Joe Battocletti and Dave Rancilio
    5.  Jason Pearsall and Dustin Greenwalt
    6.  Bonnie Newill and Sydney Pasquinelli

    JUDGES:
    1.  Neal Butts (6)
    2.  Donny Peters (6)
    3.  Kelly Young (6)

WEBER STATE UNIVERSITY

    1. Ryan Cheek/Aaron Dekeyzer
    2. Joshua Eams/ Tricy Taylor

    JUDGES:
    1. Richard Tews (8 rounds for Weber State)

WHITMAN COLLEGE

    1.  Eric Suni and Matt Schissler
    2.  Jeff Buntin and Ben Meiches
    3.  Ross Richendrfer and Andrew Stokes

    JUDGES
    1.  Aaron Hardy (1/2 commitment)
    2.  Gaurav Reddy (full commitment)

WYOMING, UNIVERSITY OF
    1. Chris Crowe and Brian DeLong
    2. Travis Cram and Aaron Lyttle
    3. Will Jensen and Josh Schmerge
    4. Danielle Jensen and Jess Ryan
    5. Rebecca Fisher and Brittany Parsons

    Judges:
    1. Eric Forslund (6 rounds)
    2. Seth Ellsworth (6 rounds)
    3. Veronica Guevara (8 rounds)











From scottelliott  Wed Sep 14 11:10:09 2005
From: scottelliott (scottelliott at grandecom.net)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:10:09 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Wisconsin Debate at its finest
Message-ID: <1126714209.43284b61b35f4@webmail.grandecom.net>

Debate Team State Finalists Live It Up In Super 8 Hot Tub
January 29, 2003 | Issue 39?03

OSHKOSH, WI?The 16 members of the Abbotsford High School debate team enjoyed a
night of revelry in the hot tub of an Oshkosh Super 8 motel Sunday, celebrating
their second-place finish in the Wisconsin High School Forensic Association
state competition.


Enlarge Image

Members of the Abbotsford High School debate team get psyched for a wild night
at the Super 8.
"This is it, guys," said team captain Ethan Howe, sinking back into the bubbling
water and raising a can of Orange Slice high into the air. "This is what we've
been working so hard for all year!"

On Jan. 11, the Abbotsford debate team qualified for the state competition,
"killing" at the district level. The following day, Abbotsford Forensics Club
advisor Sharon Knauf made lodging accommodations for the students in Oshkosh
for the WHSFA Four-Speaker State Debate Tournament, held at 8 p.m. Sunday at
University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh.

"For years, whenever we went to state, I always booked the Oshkosh Econolodge,"
said Knauf, 53, who has coached forensics for 18 years. "A few years ago,
though, they opened up this Super 8 right off Hwy. 41, and I really like it
better: There's no problem parking the bus, and it's quite a ways to downtown,
so no one is tempted to try to sneak out."

Super 8 #2692 boasts an indoor heated pool and whirlpool, free HBO and ESPN, and
a vending area with candy, chips, soda, and an ice machine. On weekends, the
motel also offers a continental breakfast from 6 to 10 a.m.

"This place rocks," said Howe, a white towel draped around his neck as he
swaggered to the button that restarts the whirlpool. "We are livin' it up."

Knauf reserved nine adjoining rooms on the east wing of the second floor,
assigning two students to each room and giving herself a single. The rooms were
situated near the vending area, a spot frequented by the high-spirited students
throughout the night.

"We took up a collection in an ice bucket?I put in, like, seven dollars?and we
brought a bunch of snacks back to Party Central [Room 233]," Howe said. "Jim
[Gamble] even had a CD player, which he technically wasn't allowed to bring.
Shhh."

The mischief, sources report, was not limited to boom-box smuggling. Student and
allergy sufferer John Greipentrog, claiming to be in desperate need of Benadryl,
obtained Knauf's permission to leave the motel to walk to the Amoco station down
the road.

"I was lying," said Greipentrog, who actually made a "supply run" for food to
add to the already copious amounts left over from the celebratory dinner at
Olive Garden. "I had my Allegra with me. Of course, I was way nervous about
lying to a teacher, but the rest of the team convinced me to live on the edge
for once."

By 7 p.m., the motel's whirlpool had become the center of activity. Nearly all
the students convened at the 10-person hot tub, enjoying the company of their
fellow honor students in pampered luxury.

"I forgot my swimsuit, but I just wore shorts and a T-shirt?right in the pool!"
junior Denise Neumann said. "We were singing our school song, but we changed
the words to make fun of the a-holes on the football team."

The combination of the wet bodies, caffeine, and general spirit of revelry even
resulted in some intra-squad flirting.

"Eric [Yetter] is so funny," sophomore Kim Ault said. "He was pretending to fall
asleep, and he'd sink down into the water and act like he was dead. Then he got
my hair all wet, even though I wasn't going to put it in the water."

Later that night, Yetter and Ault disobeyed the "no co-ed room activity" rule,
professing merely to be "sharing passages from their Advanced English 11
journals."

"I don't know what went on, but Eric is, like, Kim's man now," said Wendy
Druyan, Ault's roommate. "We kept knocking on the door and calling their phone
until they took it off the hook. Then we went in Denise's room next door and
banged on the wall."

The only student who did not participate in the tomfoolery was Jay Gawlikoski,
who spent the night in his room.

"If we get in trouble, it could go on our permanent record and colleges would
see that," said Gawlikoski, two-time recipient of Knauf's Most Valuable Debater
award. "I'd be more than up for some charades or maybe a game of euchre, but I
really have no interest in doing something stupid that'd hurt my chances of
getting into Northwestern."

According to anonymous sources, Gawlikoski is a "puss" and "just mad because
everyone teased him for bringing a huge suitcase for an overnight stay." The
unnamed student also claimed that Gawlikoski actually phoned his mother to tell
her the results of his competition and was in bed by 10 p.m.

Unlike Gawlikoski, the other students were more than ready to party late into
the night. The last to turn in, sneaking back to their respective rooms at 4
a.m., were Randy Lund and Tim Farber, a pair of juniors who earlier in the day
went head to head against the co-captains of the vaunted Eau Claire Memorial
High School squad.

"Yes, we were ultimately vanquished, but our 11-4 record is nothing to sneeze
at, and we made some very persuasive arguments on the WHSFA debate topic,
Weapons Of Mass Destruction," Farber said. " What's more, with just two
graduating seniors on the entire squad, the Abbotsford debate team will be a
force to be reckoned with next year. We had more than enough reason to make
merry this eve.






From jeffrey.jarman  Wed Sep 14 11:41:19 2005
From: jeffrey.jarman (Jeffrey Jarman)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:41:19 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] CEDA Rule for Teams Clearing to Elim Rounds
Message-ID: <000001c5b94b$22457430$35a11a9c@yourf78bf48ce2>

This is to remind tournament directors that the rule changed.  In some
cases, this might have big implications.

 

This summer we passed an amendment to the constitution to allow
tournament directors to clear **up to half** of the tournament field
into elimination rounds.  The amendment ALSO struck out the old language
which gave specific numbers that were required in order to break to
certain elim rounds.  As a result, the only constitutional rule is that
you may clear no more than half (rounded down).

 

If there are 15 teams in a division, then you can clear no more than 7
(the old rule would have allowed 8).

If there are 22 teams in a division, then you can clear no more than 11
(the old rule would have allowed 8).

If there are 29 teams in a division, then you can clear no more than 14
(the old rule would have allowed 16).

If there are 54 teams in a division, then you can clear no more than 27
(the old rule would have allowed 16).

 

Hope this helps as we prepare to begin the season.

 

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

 

 

 

Jeff

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050914/df3d52c8/attachment.html 


From oguevara  Wed Sep 14 12:44:52 2005
From: oguevara (OMAR GUEVARA)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:44:52 -0600
Subject: [eDebate] Kentucky Update Number 4
Message-ID: <s3280d47.089@gwvsmta2.weber.edu>

Hi folks,

Sorry to bother you again, but I've just had a member of my varsity
squad quit...so I'll need to change then entry for my teams (Weber
State) to:

1. Ryan Cheek/Aaron Dekeyzer
2. George Ortiz/ Tricy Taylor

Thank you!

One last thing: Veronica and my last name is spelled "GuevARA," not
"GuevERA." The former spelling is Basque, the later spelling is Spanish.
We're Basque! Thank you!!

Omar

>>> JW Patterson <jwpatt00 at uky.edu> 09/14/05 8:27 AM >>>
PLEASE CHECK THE UPDATED LIST BELOW.

REMEMBER TO MAKE YOUR HOTEL RESERVATIONS.  ONCE AGAIN, THE HENRY CLAY IS
COMPETING WITH THE OPENING OF THE KEENLAND RACE TRACK AS WELL AS A HOME
FOOTBALL GAME.  EVEN THOUGH KENTUCKY ALMOST ALWAYS LOSES ITS FOOTBALL
GAMES,
67,000 HOPEFUL FANS STILL ATTEND.

NO HIRED JUDGES AVAILABLE
UNFORTUNATELY, THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY CANNOT PROVIDE HIRED JUDGES. 
EACH
SCHOOL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN JUDGING OBLIGATIONS.

                        UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY

                           HENRY CLAY DEBATES
                PRE-SEASON NOVICE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

                       October 8th, 9th, and 10th
                        (Saturday, Sunday, Monday)

TOURNAMENT HOTEL:  RAMADA INN, 859-299-1261 EXT 158
                   [ ALL ROOMS HAVE WIRELESS INTERNET ]

HENRY CLAY ENTRIES:

*Indicates eligibility for the Pre-Season Novice National Championships

AUGUSTANA COLLEGE

    1.  Jason Bantle and John Siadak
    2.  Amber Dismer and Becca Richardson
    3.  Brian Honeyman and Amanda Freel

    JUDGES
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

BERKELEY, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT

    1.  Nick Lin and Reid Shannon
    2.  Craig Wickersham and Michael Burshteyn
    3.  Josh Garen and Daniel Richards

    JUDGES
    1.  Dave Arnette
    2.  Greg Achten

BOSTON COLLEGE

    1.  Mandy Castle & Allen Best

    JUDGES:
    1.  Patrick Waldinger

CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY

    1.  Jeff Pope/Dan Cerulo
 
    JUDGE
    1.  Mike Pomorski (4 Rounds)

CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY

    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA
    3.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

DARTMOUTH COLLEGE
    
    1. Hunter Brooks and David Marks
    2. Kathryn Clark and Brian Smith
    3. Sara del Nido and Sarah Wukoson
    4. Josh Kernoff and Kade Olsen
    5. TBA *
    6. TBA *

    JUDGES
    1.  Charles Olney (6)
    2.  Eric Slusher (6)
    3.  Ken Strange (6)
    4.  John Turner (6)

FLORIDA, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Brianna Coakley and Vince Binder

    JUDGES:  
    1.  Marissa Silber
GEORGE WASHINGTON

    1.  Brian Linder and Brett Walace

    JUDGE
    1.  Jacob Weigler

GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY

    1.  Eryn Schultz and Jonathan Gingerich
    2.  Endy Mageto and Cameron O'Bannon

    Judges:
    1.  Kenda Cunningham
    2.  TBA

GEORGIA, UNIVERSITY OF

    1. Brent Culpepper/Kevin Rabinowitz
    2. Spencer Diamond/Todd Mitchell
    3. Adam Schmidt/Adam Grellinger
    4. Andrew Hart/Shivan Bhatt
    5. Duncan Meisel/Roi Ceren *

    JUDGES
    1. Jarrod Atchison
    2. Chris McIntosh
    3. Eric Jenkins

GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY

    1.  Joel Lemuel and Marisa Fagan
    2.  Regina Summers and Shannon Watson
 
    JUDGES:
    1.  Joe Bellon
    2.  Paul Mabrey

GONZAGA UNIVERSITY

    1. Nick Bormann/Charlie Hutchison
    2. Ben Dodds/Jon Williamson
    3. Emily Christensen/Grace Saez
    4. Brent Hamilton/Melissa Hanna*

    JUDGES
    1. Glen Frappier (4 Rounds)
    2. Sam Maurer (4 Rounds)
    3. Omar Guevera (8 rounds)

IDAHO STATE UNIVERSITY
    
    1.Jessica Yeats and Izak Dunn
    
    JUDGES
    1.  Sarah Partlow - (available for hire for 3)
    2.  Scott Odekirk - 2 rounds (available for hire for 4
    3.  John Foy - 2 rounds (available for hire for 4)

KANSAS

    1. Simonsen/Cormack
    2. Lathrop/Bricker
    3. Jennings/Johnson
    4. Wright/TBA

    JUDGES
    1. TBA

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

    1.  Mellisa Hurter / Lindsey Hoban
    2.  Amanda Costa / Glen Koch

    JUDGES
    1.  Hays Watson

LOUISVILLE, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Arayfael Guillement / Stacey Bradley
    2.  Sherah Isarael / Caress Russell
    3.  Paul Meinshausen / Saheter Cook
    4.  Deven Cooper / Shauntrice Martin

    JUDGES
    David Peterson -8
    Hire for 8

MARY WASHINGTON, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Clint Woods and Nick Ryan
    2.  Leslie Wyatt and Sean Jansen

    JUDGES
    1.  Heather Barnes

MIAMI (OH) UNIVERSIITY
    1.  Mike Jensen and Mike Richardson
    2.  Matt Kern and Stephen Solomon
    3.  Jon Gair and Aaron Vinson
    4.  Mike Maffie and TBA
    5.  Ilya Galperin and TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  Jim Cherney - 6
    2.  Lincoln Bisbee - 3
    3.  Ben Voth - 2
    4.  Steve Mancuso - 3
    5.  Erika Thomas - 6

MICHIGAN, UNIVERSITY OF
    
    1. Brandi Villarreal and Justin Joque
    2. Dylan Keenan and Adam Farra
    3. Erika Jerwick and Danny Farra

    JUDGES
    1.  Joshua Hoe
    2.  Scotty Gottbrecht
    3.  Aaron Kall

MISSOURI STATE UNIVERSITY
    1.  Matthias Bostick / Michael Mapes
    2.  Mike Kearney / Martin Osborn
    3.  Jessica Johnson / Clay Webb
    4.  Caleb Messer / Sheena Walters
    5.  Blake Moore / Laci Whiteaker
 
    Judges
    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

NORTH TEXAS, UNIVERSITY OF
    
    1. Max Archer and Ben Patterson
    2. Kuntal Cholera and Rachel Schy

    JUDGES
    1. Calum Matheson
    2. Brian Lain

NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY
    1.  Josh Branson and Noah Chestnut
    2.  Avery Dale and Geoff Derrick
    3.  Rachel Haig and Ravi Shankar
    4.  Zack Brown and John Warden*
    5.  Caitlin Bruce and Stuart Crichton
    6.  Nathan Baum and Robbie Mulholland*
    7.  Charley Boynton and Mark Hammervold
    8.  Cameron Conner and Sasha Tuzel*

    JUDGES
    1.  LaTonya Starks -- 8
    2.  Luke Hill -- 8
    3.  Michael Greenstein -- 8
    4.  Tristan Morales -- 4
    5.  Tim Barouch -- 4

OKLAHOMA, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Conor Cleary and Blake Johnson

    JUDGES
    1.  Jason Russell

REDLANDS, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  TBA
    2.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  TBA

RICHMOND, UNIVERSITY OF

    1. Nehal Shah & Ryan Smith
    2. Jonathan Ward & Liz Lauzon

    JUDGES
    1. Adrienne Brovero (4)
    2. Piero Mannino (4)

SAMFORD UNIVERSITY

    1. Chad Macumber & Erin Ramsey*
    2. Clark Bowers & Ashley Streat
    3. Nick Agnello & John Wilkerson

    JUDGES
    1.  Ben Coulter (6)
    2.  Ryan Galloway (6)

SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, UNIVERSITY OF
    1. Alex Iftimie & Brian Berggren
    2. Chris Jones & Mike Smith
    3. Matt Nadell & Tony Liao
    4. Clare Velasquez & Nick Fiori

    JUDGES
    1. Gordon Stables
    2. Brian McBride
    3. Adam Symonds
    4. Omri Ceren
    5. Shawn Powers

TEXAS, UNIVERSITY OF

    1.  Chris Thiele and Jenny Davis
    2.  Spencer Johnson and Benjamin Durham
    3.  Nick Scott and Alex Savage
    4.  Reid Jones and Jonathan Lewis *

    JUDGES
    1.  Varant Yegparian
    2.  Jonah Feldman

WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY

    1.  Jamie Carroll and Brad Hall
    2.  Elizabeth Gedmark and Chris Sedelmyer
    3.  J.T. Kittrell and John Patten
    4.  TBA
    5.  TBA
    6.  TBA
    7.  TBA

    JUDGES
    1.  Ross Smith
    2.  J.P. Lacy
    3.  TBA
    4.  TBA
    5.  TBA
    6.  TBA

WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY

    1.  Matt Farmer and Gabe Murillo
    2.  Frank Esposito and Andy Timmons
    3.  Jen Schraeder and Mike Markovic
    4.  Joe Battocletti and Dave Rancilio
    5.  Jason Pearsall and Dustin Greenwalt
    6.  Bonnie Newill and Sydney Pasquinelli

    JUDGES:
    1.  Neal Butts (6)
    2.  Donny Peters (6)
    3.  Kelly Young (6)

WEBER STATE UNIVERSITY

    1. Ryan Cheek/Aaron Dekeyzer
    2. Joshua Eams/ Tricy Taylor

    JUDGES:
    1. Richard Tews (8 rounds for Weber State)

WHITMAN COLLEGE

    1.  Eric Suni and Matt Schissler
    2.  Jeff Buntin and Ben Meiches
    3.  Ross Richendrfer and Andrew Stokes

    JUDGES
    1.  Aaron Hardy (1/2 commitment)
    2.  Gaurav Reddy (full commitment)

WYOMING, UNIVERSITY OF
    1. Chris Crowe and Brian DeLong
    2. Travis Cram and Aaron Lyttle
    3. Will Jensen and Josh Schmerge
    4. Danielle Jensen and Jess Ryan
    5. Rebecca Fisher and Brittany Parsons

    Judges:
    1. Eric Forslund (6 rounds)
    2. Seth Ellsworth (6 rounds)
    3. Veronica Guevara (8 rounds)








_______________________________________________
eDebate mailing list
eDebate at ndtceda.com
To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate




From parcherj  Wed Sep 14 13:38:07 2005
From: parcherj (Jeff Parcher)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:38:07 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [eDebate] next to be fired
Message-ID: <3545189.1126723087408.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050914/c4a7af10/attachment.htm 


From veronica_m_barreto  Wed Sep 14 14:16:31 2005
From: veronica_m_barreto (Veronica Barreto)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:16:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Need UDL Folks' Experience and Advisement
Message-ID: <20050914191631.89257.qmail@web54709.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey folks,
 
We've been researching and working on the possibility of setting up a UDL model type here in Ogden where the population is mostly Hispanic and socioeconomically disadvantaged.  And today, something incredible happened -- Weber State is accepting proposals for a community outreach endowment. This would make our program internally funded. They're willing to fund tuition waivers and paid appointments and a series of other things that made the list.  This is the break we have been waiting for.  I have an informational question and answer session on the endowment Monday Sept 26 and will be turning in a short preliminary proposal by October 10.  
 
I am interested in input from any available parties on formats, different programs, debate resolutions, debate pedagogy, language obstacles (particularly for Spanish speakers), public relations materials, etc. So that we can begin to discuss how best to formulate a program to suit our particular communities' needs.  
 
Any help anyone can provide will be very much appreciated. If folks would volunteer to be part of an off e-debate email loop where I can bounce around ideas and get feedback that would be incredibly gratious as well.
 
Also, I'm going to be at Zaga this weekend so if folks are going to be up in Spokane, I'd like to chit chat maybe between rounds.
 
Thanks much!
 
Veronica


Veronica M. Guevara
 
Weber State University
Dept. of Communications
1605 University Circle
Ogden, UT 84408
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050914/5570999c/attachment.html 


From gregachten  Wed Sep 14 15:50:17 2005
From: gregachten (ACHTEN, GREGORY ALAN)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:50:17 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] Kentucky Judging Needed
Message-ID: <web-10181336@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>

Cal would like to hire some Kentucky judging. We pay $25 per round, cash. Let me know,

Greg




From delliott  Wed Sep 14 16:26:34 2005
From: delliott (Darren Elliott)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:26:34 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Ede or Tria Warner
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.1.20050914162456.01bca470@kckcc.toto.net>

I would appreciate a shout back.  Ede's email address keeps bouncing back 
to me.

thanks,
Chief





From delliott  Wed Sep 14 16:44:31 2005
From: delliott (Darren Elliott)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:44:31 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] CEDA Rule for Teams Clearing to Elim Rounds
In-Reply-To: <000001c5b94b$22457430$35a11a9c@yourf78bf48ce2>
References: <000001c5b94b$22457430$35a11a9c@yourf78bf48ce2>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.1.20050914164227.01bc7360@kckcc.toto.net>

Of course the upside is, in the past:

14 teams could only clear 4
28 teams could only clear 8
and the 54 teams already speaks for itself in Jarman's email (27 much 
better than 16)

Chief


At 11:41 AM 9/14/2005, Jeffrey Jarman wrote:
>-->
>
>This is to remind tournament directors that the rule changed.  In some 
>cases, this might have big implications.
>
>
>
>This summer we passed an amendment to the constitution to allow tournament 
>directors to clear **up to half** of the tournament field into elimination 
>rounds.  The amendment ALSO struck out the old language which gave 
>specific numbers that were required in order to break to certain elim 
>rounds.  As a result, the only constitutional rule is that you may clear 
>no more than half (rounded down).
>
>
>
>If there are 15 teams in a division, then you can clear no more than 
>7  (the old rule would have allowed 8).
>
>If there are 22 teams in a division, then you can clear no more than 11 
>(the old rule would have allowed 8).
>
>If there are 29 teams in a division, then you can clear no more than 14 
>(the old rule would have allowed 16).
>
>If there are 54 teams in a division, then you can clear no more than 27 
>(the old rule would have allowed 16).
>
>
>
>Hope this helps as we prepare to begin the season.
>
>
>
>If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050914/1eddee2d/attachment.htm 


From kenedebate  Wed Sep 14 17:16:28 2005
From: kenedebate (Ken DeLaughder)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:16:28 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Judging for Missouri State
Message-ID: <BAY102-F403C8551B10298A695C74D99F0@phx.gbl>

ESU would like to hire out 4-6 rounds - we'll pay $25 per, if anyone has 
that many let me know.

Ken

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/




From lsd041  Wed Sep 14 18:06:57 2005
From: lsd041 (Scott Deatherage)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:06:57 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Seeking Hired Judges for GA ST & Kentucky
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050914180528.028ffd40@lulu.it.northwestern.edu>

Backchannel if interested.  I need at least 8 for Kentucky and would hire 
up to 8 for GA ST.  Pay in cash at the tournament.  Let me know.  SD



Scott Deatherage
Director of Debate
Northwestern University
Evanston, Illinois 




From korryharvey  Thu Sep 15 01:19:07 2005
From: korryharvey (Korry Harvey)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:19:07 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] katrina signals collapse of petrocivilization
Message-ID: <BAY103-F423593B096A739FA274880A39E0@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050914/174b703b/attachment.html 


From korryharvey  Thu Sep 15 01:40:35 2005
From: korryharvey (Korry Harvey)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:40:35 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] the president's thoughts on "roe vs. wade"
Message-ID: <BAY103-F12B661D5E47FA10EA06198A39E0@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050914/4c7eb191/attachment.htm 


From korryharvey  Thu Sep 15 01:46:44 2005
From: korryharvey (Korry Harvey)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:46:44 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] friendly cite request on warming/weather link
Message-ID: <BAY103-F23533831ECAAEFEC254040A39E0@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050914/d069eba6/attachment.html 


From mancussp  Thu Sep 15 09:24:58 2005
From: mancussp (Steve Mancuso)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:24:58 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] judge hire at UNI
Message-ID: <7EAF9043-25F4-11DA-BC92-000D93322D0A@muohio.edu>

Hi,

Miami is looking to hire 4 rounds of judging at UNI.  Will pay $25 cash 
per round at the tournament.

Steve Mancuso




From sjld  Thu Sep 15 10:24:12 2005
From: sjld (Steven DAmico)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:24:12 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Opportunity to help FEMA
Message-ID: <229315022935fb.22935fb2293150@gwu.edu>

I recieved the following information from my graduate program and
decided to pass it on.

-Steve D'Amico (now at GWU)



An excellent opportunity to assist victims of the
disaster.

FEMA has a new Emergency Call Center at Prince Georges
Plaza in Hyattsville, MD near College Park.  They NEED
12,000 people to work 12 hr. shifts of simply logging
the hurricane victims' claims of the location & value
of their destroyed homes.  The pay is $15/hr. &
$22/hr. overtime. If interested call  301-698-1070.

Please share with interested students, graduates,
people in need.




From kenedebate  Thu Sep 15 10:34:24 2005
From: kenedebate (Ken DeLaughder)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:34:24 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] If anyone can judge at UNI still :)
Message-ID: <BAY102-F4094CC96471873C9507E87D99E0@phx.gbl>

ESU is looking to hire 4-6 rounds at UNI, we'll pay 25 a rounds cash.  I 
need someone who can take at least 4.

Ken D.
ESU Debate

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From veronica_m_barreto  Thu Sep 15 10:42:41 2005
From: veronica_m_barreto (Veronica Barreto)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:42:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Thanks for the UDL assistance & response
Message-ID: <20050915154241.93187.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm overwhelmed. The response I have received has been incredible and I want to email each person individually to thank them for their gratious support.  But as Glen says, the first round of the topic begins in 26 hours so I'm in the middle of a balancing act between teaching, UDL proposal, coaching, card cutting, pre first tournament in college ever counseling and all the other wonderful things we do that are all just part of the job.  I can't express how grateful I am to everyone who provided valuable insight and great leads on this project.  I'll see some of you at Zaga and the others I will be getting in touch with next week.
 
Thanks again! (faith in the debate community restored :)
 
Veronica


Veronica M. Guevara
 
Weber State University
Dept. of Communications
1605 University Circle
Ogden, UT 84408
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050915/9b61bb61/attachment.htm 


From katerichey  Thu Sep 15 10:51:57 2005
From: katerichey (Katie Richey)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:51:57 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] Paging Gabrielle Prisco
Message-ID: <51ab18c805091508516f901a11@mail.gmail.com>

I need Gabrielle to email me asap! if anyone still in touch with her can 
pass along the message that would be great, sorry for the clutter,
 kate
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050915/d46913fa/attachment.html 


From spmancuso  Thu Sep 15 10:59:58 2005
From: spmancuso (Steve Mancuso)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:59:58 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Miami found judging for UNI
Message-ID: <C43804D6-2601-11DA-BC92-000D93322D0A@aol.com>

We're covered now, thanks.




From berchnorto  Thu Sep 15 11:32:13 2005
From: berchnorto (NEIL BERCH)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:32:13 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] East region student representative
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV13B38C771E0082F1C4B436D39E0@phx.gbl>

As CEDA's East Region representative, one of my duties is to conduct an election for the regional student representative.  Duties of the student representative include expressing concerns of debaters in the region; serving as a member of the Student Representatives Committee, voting on electing a student member to the Topic Committtee; and, having a vote at CEDA business meetings.

Rather than conduct the election wholly at a tournament at which not everyone interested may be present, I am seeking nominations (including self-nominations) for this post.  The deadline is noon on Tuesday, September 20.  If at that time exactly one person has been nominated, that person will be the student representative.  If more than one eligible person has been nominated, I will conduct an election by a means to be determined.  If nobody has been nominated, I will conduct an election at the Buffalo tournament.

--Neil Berch
West Virginia University
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050915/93232491/attachment.htm 


From kenedebate  Thu Sep 15 12:15:12 2005
From: kenedebate (Ken DeLaughder)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:15:12 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] ESU still looking for  UNI rounds!
Message-ID: <BAY102-F1071B620319EDD87A36DF9D99E0@phx.gbl>

If you wanted to judge for Mancuso, but weren't in time, we'll give you some 
money.  It's not as good as working for a "framer" but you know, I was there 
too :)

lol...  we're looking for 2-4 at this point.. its cash.  or popcorn, we can 
always pay you in popcorn if you prefer.

Ken

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From carlos  Thu Sep 15 15:07:19 2005
From: carlos (Carlos Varela)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:07:19 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Volunteer oppurtunity for DC UDL Tournament
Message-ID: <200509152007.j8FK7Jo08163@hsdebate.com>

Hello edebate community,
>
> I am Carlos Varela, Program Manager of the Washington DC Urban Debate
> League. I would like to extend a special invitation to all you policy
> debaters to participate in the DCUDL's first tournament of the year. It
> will be held at Bell Multicultural High School, on September 24, 2005.
> We could particularly use judges. We are looking for volunteers, however
> a stipend is possible for your time. If you are unable to make this
> tournament, but are interested in helping out at a later date, check out
> our schedule at www.dcdebate.org.
>
> Also, if you are in the Washington DC area and would like to become a
> mentor for a school that would welcome as well. There are a variety of
> commitment levels. Sometimes, just one session helping out a team
> understand kritiks can be helpful. On the other end of the spectrum we
> have people who help the coach several times a week.
>
> Thank you for your consideration and time,
>
> Carlos Varela
> Program Director
> The DC Urban Debate League - www.dcdebate.org
> 100 Peabody St. NW- 1st floor
> Washington, D.C. 20011
> (202)-341-5083
-- 
Carlos Varela
Program Director 
The DC Urban Debate League - www.dcdebate.org
100 Peabody St. NW- 1st floor
Washington, D.C. 20011
(202)-341-5083




From jakethompsondebate  Thu Sep 15 19:30:48 2005
From: jakethompsondebate (jacob thompson)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:30:48 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] UNI judge prefs
Message-ID: <BAY107-F30CD5ADB2F2718FE64AF2DC5910@phx.gbl>

UNI judge prefs will not be done on the Bruschke system.  Given the number 
of judge changes that always occur it's much easier to do them the on paper. 
  We will hand out pref sheets at registration.

Jake





From FijiPapabear  Thu Sep 15 20:22:06 2005
From: FijiPapabear (FijiPapabear at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:22:06 EDT
Subject: [eDebate] systemic impacts to sexism
Message-ID: <1e8.435f7805.305b783e@aol.com>

Sexism May Shorten Men's Lives: Study  
 
 
 
20 minutes ago  


THURSDAY, Sept. 15 (HealthDay News) -- In a somewhat unexpected finding,  
societal male dominance over women -- patriarchy -- may help explain why men  
have a lower life expectancy than women worldwide. 
British researchers analyzed rates of female murders and male death rates  
from all causes in 51 countries in Europe, Asia, Australasia, and North and  
South America. The prevalence of violence against women was used to indicate the  
extent of patriarchal control in each of the countries. Socioeconomic factors 
 were also taken into consideration. 
The study found that women lived longer than men in all 51 countries. The  
study also found that those countries with higher rates of female murders  
(indicating higher levels of patriarchy) also had higher rates for male death  and 
shorter male life expectancies, compared to countries with lower female  
murder rates, the researchers said.  
In fact, statistical analysis showed that variations between countries in  
rates of violence against women accounted for close to half (49 percent) of the  
variation in male death rates, the researchers noted. 
"Our data suggest that oppression and exploitation harm the oppressors as  
well as those they oppress," researchers at the University of Liverpool  
concluded. 
They noted that the higher death rate and shorter life expectancy among men  
is "a preventable social condition, which can potentially be tackled through  
global social policy." 
For example, changes can be made in the way that young males are socialized  
into patriarchal gender roles, such as the emphasis on risk taking, aggression 
 and suppression of emotions, the researchers said. 
The findings appear in the current issue of the Journal of Epidemiology and  
Community Health. 
More information 
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention offers these men's health 
 tips. 




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050915/d8fa9ed8/attachment.html 


From avergoth  Thu Sep 15 22:31:57 2005
From: avergoth (avergoth at netscape.net)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:31:57 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Ken DeLaughder
Message-ID: <565B5342.2BC59C3B.0095EB3C@netscape.net>

If you still need judging, I am available.  For 4 rounds.  I have 2 with Western Illinois, but you can have me for the rest of the time if you need me.

Josh Averbeck
Western Illinois, Grad Asst.

-- 
"P.S. This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated." ?-Mitch Hedberg


__________________________________________________________________
Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register

Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp




From alfred.snider  Fri Sep 16 09:57:21 2005
From: alfred.snider (Alfred C. Snider)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:57:21 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] HISTORY CHANNEL DEBATES
Message-ID: <a06230903bf5089a53b1b@[132.198.123.141]>

For the last few months I have been working with 
the History Channel on a way to use debating to 
teach about history. As you may know, Maxwell 
Schnurer and I wrote a book a while back [MANY 
SIDES; Debate across the curriculum] that has 
been pretty popular, has been in three printings, 
and now has a second edition on the way. The 
point of the book is to assist teachers in using 
debating to teach almost anything,

The History Channel has a new series coming out 
in November called THE CRUSADES. They wanted to 
start by encouraging teachers and students to 
engage in debates about this period in history 
with the television series serving as a 
springboard. They asked for a sample debate 
(Vermont/WDI did one), a set of topics, formats, 
preparation guides and support documents for 
students and teachers (done).

I was a little concerned about this topic area 
and possible problems, but the program itself 
seems to be very evenly divided between the way 
it tells the story and the people working on the 
show seem very concerned about making the events 
productive given the current world political 
situation and the need to keep a strong balance 
between European and Islamic voices.

Their interest in debate seems to keep growing. 
Now they are going to offer a contest for high 
school and college students who want to stage a 
debate on this issue. More details will come, but 
it looks like big cash prizes will be given out, 
as much as $5000 to the winners, with smaller 
prizes to others. I will be announcing all of 
this in the beginning of October.

But wait, there is more...

But their interest seems to continue to grow. Now 
they want to stage a debate on one of these 
topics between two highly skilled college debate 
programs. The American parliamentary format will 
be used without points of information, with three 
persons on a side. The speeches might be slightly 
shorter.
First affirmative speech ? present affirmative case --  7 minutes
First negative speech ? attack affirmative case, 
introduce others issues for the negative -- 8 
minutes
Second affirmative speech ? defend the case, deal 
with new negative issues -- 8 minutes
Second negative speech ? continue to attack the 
case, continue with negative issues introduced in 
first negative opposition speech -- 8 minutes
Third negative speech -- Summarize debate, weigh 
and compare important issues -- 4 minutes
Third affirmative speech -- Summarize debate, 
weigh and compare important issues -- 5 minutes
The debate would be filmed in NYC. They are 
seeking debaters who are: articulate, 
experienced, and able in front of a camera. The 
History Channel would bring the students to NYC 
for a taping. The debate would be televised along 
with background material about the Crusades the 
day the series begins and might well be repeated.

I have been asked to recruit teams for this 
event. If you are interested, you need to email 
me about your interest, tell me who the debaters 
would be (give me some background on them if I do 
not know them), and state your willingness to 
send the History Channel a videotape of these 
three students speaking in a public-style debate 
(any topic) so they can make a selection.

Time is short and the opportunity is a valuable 
one. An international broadcast of your debate 
team on a network like this can be good for your 
program and your school. While there is no money 
for doing it, all costs would be covered and your 
school would be credited on the broadcast.

This program is being coordinated by the WORLD DEBATE INSTITUTE.

I hope to hear from you soon.

ACS

-- 
---------------------------
Alfred C. Snider, AKA Tuna
Edwin W. Lawrence Professor of Forensics, University of Vermont
475 Main, UVM, Burlington, VT 05405 USA
World Debate Institute; World Debate Organization
802-238-8345 mobile; 802-656-0097 office; 802-656-4275 fax
http://alfred.snider.name website
AIM screenname: xdoctortunax
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050916/298dd1bb/attachment.htm 


From mrberry  Fri Sep 16 13:04:50 2005
From: mrberry (Berry, Mike)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:04:50 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] King's Debate Tournament announcements  Please All Directors Read.
Message-ID: <C7119E0BB2397742875020505B5DEB8C01A97C39@mail02.kings.edu>

Hello everyone,

We are excited to host our tournament again this year.  A couple of
announcements need to be made.

First, our block of rooms at the Holiday Inn are sold out.  If you need
rooms, please contact the Ramada Inn located on Public square in Wilkes
Barre.  It is our old tournament hotel.  The number for the Ramada Inn
is 570.824.7100  We have 25 rooms held under the "King's College Debate
Tournament".  The rate is $60 plus tax.

Secondly, please respect others at the tournament especially when there
are classes going on.  I know that everyone is excited to be at the
tournament particularly when the first pairing comes out.  There are
still classes going on during the tournament. King's runs classes on all
3 days of the tournament and also does testing for ACT.  If these
classes or testing  are disrupted, I am in danger of losing this
tournament. 

Most importantly, while we will still provide food service for the
tournament, we are having to move it to the student center.  Absolutely
no food is allowed in any of the classrooms. This includes elim day.  I
know that this is not the most optimal situation but I have strict
orders.  If you are found with food inside any of the classroom
buildings, you will be asked politely to remove it from the building.
Please don't ask what will happen if politeness doesn't work. 

Please relay this message to your students.   I have lost more rooms and
facilities because of past actions by debaters.  I am truly sorry that I
have to make these last two announcements.

More announcements to come.


Sincerely,

Mike Berry 
Director of Debate





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050916/ecdb3360/attachment.html 


From kjc32  Fri Sep 16 17:09:59 2005
From: kjc32 (Kenda Cunningham)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:09:59 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] KINGS COLLEGE JUDGING NEEDED DESPERATELY!!!!!!
Message-ID: <432B42B7.6040903@georgetown.edu>

If anyone is interested in judging at King?s College for Georgetown 
University PLEASE email me or call me at 202-674-5667. We can use 
several judges and will pay you well and be nice! J

Thanks a lot

Kenda

Kenda Cunningham
Director of Debate
Georgetown University
202-687-4079
kjc32 at georgetown.edu




From bmoreboi325  Fri Sep 16 20:56:04 2005
From: bmoreboi325 (Deven)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:56:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] TOP TEAMS ???
Message-ID: <20050917015604.25957.qmail@web60013.mail.yahoo.com>

HEY SUP!! 
WHO ARE THE TOP(1ST)  TEAMS FROM EACH SCHOOL??


Deven E. Cooper 
Cell (443)-567-9287 
University of Louisville 
Bmoreboi325 at yahoo.com 
1900 South 4th Street Apt 1020 
Louisville, Kentucky 40208 

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050916/e9828ec3/attachment.htm 


From rob.eback  Sat Sep 17 01:14:14 2005
From: rob.eback (Rob Eback)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 02:14:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [eDebate] topic as posted on CEDA webpage
Message-ID: <20050917061414.9C7D8BB2B@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>

http://www.cedadebate.org/topic.htm

"The USFG should substantially increase diplomatic and economic pressure on the People's Republic of China in one or more of the following areas: trade, human rights, weapons nonproliferation, Taiwan."

Is this the 'official' topic and if so should it really say "USFG"?

Rob Eback
West Georgia

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!





From repkowil  Sat Sep 17 02:12:21 2005
From: repkowil (William J Repko)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:12:21 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] topic as posted on CEDA webpage
In-Reply-To: <20050917061414.9C7D8BB2B@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20050917061414.9C7D8BB2B@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <E1EGWs5-0006NR-RO@sys27.mail.msu.edu>

I think that Jarman's post is technically the official post -- and it says 
"United States Federal Government". 

http://www.ndtceda.com/archives/200507/0166.html 

if not, then I agree it should be clarified. 

 Always, 

   Rue McClanahan 


Rob Eback writes: 

> 
> http://www.cedadebate.org/topic.htm 
> 
> "The USFG should substantially increase diplomatic and economic pressure on the People's Republic of China in one or more of the following areas: trade, human rights, weapons nonproliferation, Taiwan." 
> 
> Is this the 'official' topic and if so should it really say "USFG"? 
> 
> Rob Eback
> West Georgia 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web! 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at ndtceda.com
> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate 
> 
 





From jeffrey.jarman  Sat Sep 17 06:07:22 2005
From: jeffrey.jarman (Jeffrey.Jarman)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 06:07:22 -0500
Subject: [eDebate] topic as posted on CEDA webpage
Message-ID: <432B6E0E@webmail.wichita.edu>

The topic does not use USFG--it does use the phrase "United States Federal 
Government."  This was the language used on the ballot.  Anyone interested in 
the topic wording can also find it www.wichita.edu/ceda.

jeff

>===== Original Message From William J Repko <repkowil at msu.edu> =====
>I think that Jarman's post is technically the official post -- and it says
>"United States Federal Government".
>
>http://www.ndtceda.com/archives/200507/0166.html
>
>if not, then I agree it should be clarified.
>
> Always,
>
>   Rue McClanahan
>
>
>Rob Eback writes:
>
>>
>> http://www.cedadebate.org/topic.htm
>>
>> "The USFG should substantially increase diplomatic and economic pressure on 
the People's Republic of China in one or more of the following areas: trade, 
human rights, weapons nonproliferation, Taiwan."
>>
>> Is this the 'official' topic and if so should it really say "USFG"?
>>
>> Rob Eback
>> West Georgia
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
>> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> eDebate mailing list
>> eDebate at ndtceda.com
>> To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
>> http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
>>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>eDebate mailing list
>eDebate at ndtceda.com
>To subscribe, UNSUBSCRIBE, and see the subscriber list, go here:
>http://ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate





From jakethompsondebate  Sat Sep 17 13:36:18 2005
From: jakethompsondebate (jacob thompson)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 18:36:18 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] UNI Caselist Version 1--post Round 2
Message-ID: <BAY107-F35F687C5EBC95D90A30B7EC5900@phx.gbl>

This is the info we have thus far...  Updates will be posted periodically.

Enjoy,

Jake Thompson

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Compilation.1AC.Unicasebook.9.16.05.1pm.23181DEFANGED-doc
Type: application/defanged
Size: 661504 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050917/e4061b16/attachment.bin 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Case Compilation casebook TEXT FILE.23181DEFANGED-doc
Type: application/defanged
Size: 323072 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050917/e4061b16/attachment-0001.bin 


From bk2nocal  Sat Sep 17 16:39:28 2005
From: bk2nocal (Sue Peterson)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [eDebate] Room Rate For Pepperdine Tournament - Correction
Message-ID: <20050917213928.44769.qmail@web81606.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all...
 
I want to apologize profusely, but I seemed to have included the wrong room rate in the invitation for this year's tournament.  The rate is really $74 per room (4 people), not $69.  I realize this can make a difference in budgets and I'm very sorry for the mistake.  I still think the rate is really good, but obviously not as good as $69.
 
Again, I apologize for the mistake and hope it will not make a difference in your team being able to attend the tournament.  Please feel free to contact me about anything involving the tournament.
 
Thanks,


Sue Peterson
Director of Forensics
Pepperdine University
 
"Security is not the meaning of my life. Great opportunities are worth the risks." -- Shirley Hufstedler 
--Maggie Kuhn, Gray Panther Leader 


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050917/ad7f125b/attachment.html 


From smithr  Sat Sep 17 16:51:45 2005
From: smithr (smithr)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:51:45 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Wake's Shirley Classic entry rules
Message-ID: <432C8FF1.5050900@wfu.edu>

The tournament dates are Nov. 12-14.

The tournament size is limited by the number of classrooms, and we lost 
still more last year due to violations of the "no food and drinks in the 
rooms" policy under which most departments lend us use of rooms.

Last year's entry rules seemed to work decently so we will go that way 
again(subject to minor modification in case of lack of clarity in 
explanation or other kinds of "Doh" events).

1) Every school that wants to enter can AUTOMATICALLY receive TWO entry 
slots as long as they enter by Oct. 25.

2) After that, as space permits, we will then take additional teams, up 
to a total of four teams per school, as long as ALL THREE OR FOUR teams 
have cleared to elims in TWO varsity tournaments this fall. If both 
debaters on the team EITHER cleared twice this fall OR qualified for NDT 
in the past OR reached elimination rounds at CEDA Nationals in the past, 
the team is considered to have met the "cleared twice" requirement

3) After that, as space permits, we will take additional teams up to a 
total of three teams per school as long as ALL THREE teams have cleared 
to elims in at least ONE varsity tournament this fall.

4) After that, as space permits, we will take additional teams up to a 
total of four teams per school as long as ALL FOUR teams have cleared to 
elims in at least ONE varsity tournament this fall.

Note: clearing at a varsity tournament means clearing withing the 
defined rules of CEDA regarding how many teams are allowed to clear at a 
tournament. In other words, if a ten team tourrnament cleared 8 teams, 
all 8 would not have cleared according to the rules.

Q: Will we enter via Bruschke's site?
A: Yes, after that is set up. For now, chill. With the 2 teams per 
school limit, no school should get shut out any time soon.


Q: We may want to re-pair our teams. How might this affect things?
A: As long as all debaters meet the criteria pair them how you wish.

Q: Does the two clears rule mean by Oct. 25?  Since there are 
tournaments the week before Wake are teams admitted conditionally on 
clearing before Wake and then dropped in the last few days to give those 
slots to someone else or are teams told they can't come and then meet 
the criteria before the tournament but met the criteria to late?
A: The entry deadline is November 1 (unless we are full by then). 
Therefore, you must have cleared twice by Nov. 1.

Q: What if we enter our own tournament, do well enough to clear, but 
operate under a rule that does not allow host teams to participate in elims?
A: We will give you the benefit of the doubt and treat you as if you 
cleared.

Q: What about tournaments that clear fewer teams than CEDA rules would 
allow? If we do well enough to clear under the CEDA rules does that 
count even though Harvard is mean and only allows 16 out of 70 teams to 
clear?
A: Go to an easier tournament.

Q: What if Katsulas and Dallas conspire to create a fake tournament and 
"clear" additional teams?
A: In the words of Will Repko, "Bite me."




From jakethompsondebate  Sat Sep 17 18:00:58 2005
From: jakethompsondebate (jacob thompson)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 23:00:58 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] UNI caselist update version 2 negative included
Message-ID: <BAY107-F20948A6AB3678C4ADE18B5C5900@phx.gbl>

Here is another update as of 6 pm saturday--more to come with lots more neg 
stuff (especially cites).

Jake

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Negative.Compilation.6pm.26438DEFANGED-doc
Type: application/defanged
Size: 49152 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050917/3a80f5e7/attachment.bin 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Compilation.1AC.Unicasebook.9.16.05.6pm.26438DEFANGED-doc
Type: application/defanged
Size: 701952 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050917/3a80f5e7/attachment-0001.bin 


From katekauf  Sat Sep 17 22:18:38 2005
From: katekauf (Kate Baxter-Kauf)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 23:18:38 -0400
Subject: [eDebate] Buffalo Tournament Repost and Entry Reminder!!
Message-ID: <BAY107-F261F05B0DD9329448729D2CD930@phx.gbl>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050917/0c7842aa/attachment.htm 


From frappier  Sat Sep 17 23:35:29 2005
From: frappier (Frappier, Glen)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:35:29 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] Gonzaga - Teams Clearing and Speaker Awards
Message-ID: <36AE85DCADCA72409DD873C729D1AB9709BE93B9@gem.gonzaga.edu>

Prelims are over. Octas begin at 9am. 
 
Team Clearing
 
Cal BW
Cal GR
Cal LS
Fullerton MM
Gonzaga BH
Idaho State DY
Idaho State BK
North Texas CS
Puget Sound CS
Redlands SZ
Richmond SS
Southern Cal BI
Southern Cal JS
Southern Cal LN
Whitman SS
Whitman BM
 
Speaker Awards
 
1. Craig Wickersham (Cal)
2. Eric Suni (Whitman)
3. Reid Shannon (Cal)
4. Brenda Montes (Fullerton)
5. Peter Campbell (Puget Sound)
6. Mike Burshteyn (Cal)
7. Luis Magallon (Fullerton)
8. Charlie Hutchison (Gonzaga)
9. Izak Dunn (Idaho State)
10. Jake Ziering (Redlands)
11. Jeff Buntin (Whitman)
12. Alex Iftimie (Southern Cal)
13. Jessica Yeats (Idaho State)
14. Nick Lin (Cal)
15. Rachel Schy (North Texas)
 
 




From jakethompsondebate  Sun Sep 18 13:43:13 2005
From: jakethompsondebate (jacob thompson)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:43:13 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BAY107-F36B5AAD6814AE12B4559CDC5930@phx.gbl>

Here is a text file version of the UNI casebook.  Sorry if this clutters up 
your inbox, but the attachment does not work at the edebate website.

Jake



CONCORDIA FF Negative

International Relations K:

Economic discourse constructs public-private dichotomy privileging one 
perspective over others ? Callan & Hyman 2004 Post-Colonialism Meets 
Economics p. 118-9
Underside exploration is exploitation Space Exploration exploits space but 
people two
Angela Burr 2001 
http://www-ssg.sr.unh.edu/preceptorial/Summaries_2001/summary9_2001.html
Gatekeepers of IR include many voices so long as those voices are complicit 
with conventional nature of politics
Bleiker Alternatives Vol. 22 p. 78
Aff?s use of autonomous rational actor forecloses any possible alternative 
analysis
It?s nice to fool mother nature ? Feminine App to Int?l Law  - Soynerd & 
Little
(Gender/FEM IR ? Tickner, Peterson & Runyan)

Photos of Sudanese children consumed ? we become the perfect representation 
of violence ? the local was obscured and violent colonialism fed ? Kleinzmen 
96 ? Daedalus

Violence becomes new pornography suffering = entertainment, violence becomes 
rationalized
Bruckner & Bruckner 1986 ? tears of the Whiteman: compassion as contempt

Proliferation discourse precludes alternate Framing naturalizing problematic 
action ? Mutimer 2000 ?The Weapon State? p. 62, 156-7

ALTERNATIVE TO K ? Advocate ?sender analysis? and a negative ballot

WICHITA BL vs. CONCORDIA KK
Spanos

Relations DA
GHG From China Increasing ? U.S. Cinal Coop key
Robert Collier 2005  San Francisco Chronicle p. a1  ?Bush Signs deal to help 
with Clean air in China?
Human Rights pressure decr relations ? Weatherly ?99 ? Discourse on Human 
Rights, Historical & Ideological Perspectives
Warming x?s biodiversity = extinction ? Whittwer 1995

CP ? Exclude diplomatic pressure

Baylor JT Negative vs. MTCR Affirmative

EU Counterplan (China likes EU Better ? AP Sept. 7, 2005
Relations DA
UN Sec. Council Horse Trading DA (Iran Sanctions GOOD)
- Bush = sanction IRAN now (Michael Hedges, 8/10/05 ? Houston Chronicle)
o Destroys Horse Trading ? Colin Lyncy 7/6/01 Washington Post
o Sanctions Key 2 stop Iran nuclear program ? Perkovich and Manzanero May 
2004 ? Nonproliferation and U.S. Leadership Project

Case Studies of U.S. Economic Sanctions: The Chinese, Cuban, and Japan ? 
Askari

Wayne State (NEG) vs. Kansas KP (MTCR ? Sanction Parent Companies)
Kansas KP (Aff)
vs. Wayne State NP (Neg)
Round 5 @ UNI
Jeff Jarman ? Judge

1AC

Obs. 1 Inh

China still prolif Missiles, enforcement issues ? serial proliferators
Inside Missile Defense March 16, 2005

Current policy not include parent companies ? loophole, u.s. sanctions 
currently no teeth
Milhollin 2005
http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/testimonies/2005/US-China-comm-031005.htm

Plan
Sanctions govt owned parent companies.  Penalties ban access capital markets


Solvency

Must be realistic about China?s policty

Pressure companies --> solve root problem of sanctions.  Solve best.  
Funding subsidiaries ? effects spread solvency ? China?s foreign stock 
exchange ? China is becoming more vulnerable to economic pressure ? threaten 
profitability.  Ban exports from to U.S.

Empirically Economic pressure is best to solve ? U.S> markets key to China 
commitments to non-proliferation
-NPT example
-Pakistan sales are example

ADV. 1  _ Ind/Pak

Scen 1
China is selling BM to Pakistan, nuclear weapons

--> Indo-Pak arms race = escalate to nuclear war (1998)
Fisher & Dori 1998
http://www.heritage.org/Research/AsiaandthePacific/EM532.cfm


War between Ind/Pak in Kashmir threatens entire planet ? even U.S.
Ghulam Nabi 2001
www.pakistanlink.com/Letters/2001/July/13/05.html


Scen 2 Lead

Prolif to Pakistan is gateway for China to middle east hegemony for China
Ashok Kapur ? Jamestown Foundation
?The New Indian factor in China?s proliferation Policy? 
http://www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?search=1&volume_id=395&issue_id=2923&article_id=23621


China prolif = influence in ME checks U.S. hegemony (counter balance u.s.)

States proliferate to get U.S. concessions ? decreases U.S. 
alliances/hegemony ? hurts u.s. readiness to commit forces
Ritcheson 1997
http://www.nwc.navy.mi./press/review/1997/summer/art3su97.htm


Khalilzad 95 ? leadership key to check nuclear war

Scen 3  Oil

Chinese leadership in Middle East --> oil competition

Middle east oil competition guarantees war

U.S> - China war --> extinction
Straits Times 2000
?china were to retaliate?
?europes political mandate?
?short of using nuclear weapons?

Adv. 2 ? Terrorism

China prolif key to sending Nuclear Weapons to Al qaeda

Nuclear Terrorism = extinction (nuclear war) Mohamed Sid-Ahmed 2004 
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/705/op5.htm Aug. 26

1NC Wayne State NP

5 Off, Solvency

T Diplo Pressure
Diplo press  = demand
Eco press = sanctions
Not SINGULAR action
Pressure = force
Not diplo pressure
Extra t illigit

POLITICS

A. Indian nuclear deal ? not pass in SQ
B. Congress nuclear pandoras box
C. Incr pressure on PRC --> cong support for agenda (strait times 2005)

NATIONALISM

a. Needs political support in China to check nat?lsm
b. Econ pressure --> energy for nationalists
c. Americ pressure stokes nationalism
d. Loss of credit --> massive civil unrest
e. Civil war --> war econ collapse, major war

WTO

A. u.s. committed to WTO in sq (2005)
B. Unilat u.s. trade pressure --> damage to WTO (wto collapse upon 
clarification)
C. Lack WTO dispute resolution = nuclear war

CP (Unconditional)

EU incr pressure on China, penalty ban on exports
EU has significant diplomatic network, more than U.S.
China more willing to work with EU
Europe/China work together to constrain U.S. in multilateral institutions

OB3 Net Benefit

NYT 2005 ? EU needs credibility to incr place in world  coop with China is 
important to place for EU

EU work on China = incr eu power

EU power key to check war in Europe ? daalder 2005

SOLVENCY

Unilateral pressure is not effective

Domestic interest groups mobilized over China ? threats not credible

China failed bid on CNOOC spread into other interests, competing oil

Unilateral sanctions fail (2003)
U.S. sanctions/protectionist policy not work

Pakistan gets nuclear tech from Russia ? 2002

Focus on Tools of warfare is blinding ? not solve (Martin 1996)

Wayne State Politics/Indian Nuclear Deal

India deal unlikely to pass in SQ
The Hindu Sept. 15, 2005
?reaction has the potential of derailing?

India Deal Angers Pakistan --> arms race
Business recorder 9-15-05
?strategic alliance will drastically?
?should seriously consider?

India Pakistan conflict extinction
www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2002/05/00_ong_india-pakistan.htm
?war between the two countries?
?nuclear annihilation?

Bush lacks congressional support for Indian nuclear deal
Korb ? The Washington Post Aug. 3, 2005
?administration?s second error?
?we could end up paying?

Increasing pressure on PRC = congressional support
The Straits Times Sept. 3 05
?the contentious issues?
?appeasing China over Taiwan?

Congress passage of Indian nuclear deal x?s NPT = arms race
Sacramento Bee July 23 2005
?the proposed u.s. sale?
?opening a nuclear Pandora?s box?

NPT collapse impact
www.basicint.org/pubs/Research/2002BB.pdf

Indo-U.S. relations strong w/o deal
Financial Times July 20, 2005
?the broad case for partnership?
?have been possible without?

Nationalism DA

HU Has credibility Now ? Nationalist support is key
Christensen 2005
April 6, 2005
Federal News Service
?Chinese communist party elites?
?placed a premium on protecting their image?

Economic Pressure weakens? hu credibility
Drew Diver 2002, May 8 
http://www.geocities.com/ccparty2002/what_will_hu_do.html
Loss of Credibility --> unrest
Zhao 2002
Exploring Nationalisms in China p. 101
?such predictions, however?
?will spin out of control?

Civil unrest --> regional war
Kane & Serewicz 2001
Parameters Autumn p. 63 ?China?s Hunger?
?If order broke down?
?attacking adjacent countries?





WTO DA

The U.S. committed to WTO dispute resolution now
Lapter 2005  4 Chi.-Kent Journal Intell Prop 217
?The WTO?s dispute resolution mechanism?
?Based on the United States? lump-sum?
?within its confines?

U.S. Unilateral Trade pressure undermines Dispute resolution
World Trade Organization, United States ? Sections 301-310 of the Trade Act 
of 1974, Report of the Panel, Dec. 22, 1999

5.284 Japan also states that on the basis of the above points, whereby the 
United States unilaterally applies its own rules and regulations by way of 
the Trade Act of 1974, such action can seriously damage the Dispute 
Settlement Mechanism within the framework of the WTO.

Impact ? Lack of WTO dispute resolution --> nuclear conflict
Copley News Service Dec. 1, 1999
?For decades, many children?
?they should be celebrating it?

Trade War/Chinese Nationalism DA Stuff  (UN-Labelled Negative 
Disclosure?i.e., free cards)

Plan = Trade war
Legruin 2003 ?the Coming Collapse of Free Trade? The New Republic

Destroys WTO
Nicholas Lardy April 25 ?US-China Economic Relations: Implications for U.S. 
Policy?

Nationalism

Maochun Yu 2005 ?Thina?s State control mechanisms and methods China 
Nationalism? Testimony, April 14 before USCHINA economic and Security Review

Thurschwell K:

The claim that the judge has an ethical responsibility to vote aff is mired 
in a fundamental paradox ? Thurschwell 2001 ? in Law/Text/Context 2001, 
5:271

The paradox of ethical action pervades IR.  Language of diplomacy, war, and 
politics is incapable of investing an aff ballot with ethics
[ Derrida, 1995, Gift of Death, trans. By david willis]

The ballot locates ethical justification in an unconditional obligation to 
the other
Thurschwell 2003  - Cardozo Law Review March 2003 24:1193

Baylor JT Neg Vs. MTCR



Baylor CM Negative

Counterplan ? Economic NOT diplomatic
Selective Diplomacy/Terrorism DA

Diplomatic Resources focused on Terrorism ? Smith 2005 ? Congressional, 
April 14
?public diplomacy?adequate funding?

Diplomatic pressure = state department
State Dept. Bureaus of Public affairs May 25, 2005
?state department leads?trade to nuclear weapons.?

New Diplomacy trades off with terrorism
Lugar March 18, 2003 FNS, ?state department has been starved?

Strong diplomacy key to prevent terrorism
Peterson 2002 ? Foreign Affairs sept./oct.
?public diplomacy?cooperation of foreign nations?

Terrorism = extinction
MacKinnon May 5, 2005 Washington Times
?terrorists who seek to obliterate the U.S.?




EMPORIA CR vs. Missouri State (MTCR)

Marxism K

Joel Kovel 2002  The Enemy of Nature p. 5-7
Joshua urlantzick Sept. 16, 2004 ?Move over confucious? The New Republic 
online ? lexis
Marta Harnecker 2000 (www.dsp.org.au/links/back/issue16/harnecker.html
Istvan Meszaros 2001 Socialism or barbarism: from the American century to 
the crossroads








Kansas BL vs. Concordia

Nationalism DA

Pressure = nationalism and x?s global free trade
Elizabeth Economy the Blatimore Sun Dec. 11, 2003

Free Trade solves lots of stuff
Lampton ? The Nixon Center ?US-China relations in Post-September 11) 2002

Economy
Economic pressure on china collapses economy  Krysten cRAWFORD ? june 24, 05 
?Beware of the fixin China debate?
Mead 92 ? war

Diplomacy DA
Pressure china causes backlash ? terrorism, prolif, arms sales, the 
environment YU 2003
Cardozo Law Review ? November ?the Copyright divide?
China cooperating with US now ? alternative is extinction
Zhou Wenzhong Feb. 7 2002 http://www.fmprc.gov.en/eng/wjdt/zyjh/tb4286.htm

UT Dallas Negative

BACKCHANNEL CP:

Eric Brahm ? 2003 www.beyondintractability.or/m/diplomacy--intro.jsp
Ralph Cossa 2000 ? www.csis.org/pacfor/annual/specialMay2000.pdf
?Long term visions of regional security: US and China? ? May
Conflict Research Consortium 1998 
www.colorado.edu/conflict/peace/treatment/track1.htm
John McDonald 1991 ? ?Further explanation of track two diplomacy? Timing the 
de-escalation of international conflicts in Kriedberg & Thorson 1991 ed.
Noher & McDonald 1996 ? usis F.P. journals ? 
http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itps/1296/ijpe/pj19mcdo.htm
www.intractableconflict.org/m/track1_diplomacy.jsp
susan Allen nan 2003
?track 1 diplomacy?

Michigan JV neg vs. Capital RS

Culture K:
Authenticity and homogeneity --> boundary on identity ? Munn 2000, Critical 
Horizons Vol. 1, Iss. 2
Search for subject --> genocide ? Bellman 2004 
http://gseweb.harvard.edu~t656_web/peace/bamc_pages,?politics,culture,media,andlead?
Culture as narrative form ? Munn alternative

Relations DA
Relations Incr ? SC Morn Post 9-15-05
Pressure x?s coop on N. Korea ? USA Today 3-20-05
MPX ? coop key to northe korea ? mead 6-19-05 LA Times
War --> Conflict Choi 2002 ? www.kimsoft.com/2002/nk_nuke5.html





Augustana (NEG) vs. Michigan

2AC stuff:
Realism Inevitable ? Mearshimer
Human Rights Good
	Kunnemann 1995 Human Rights Quarterly 17.2 ?A coherent approach to human 
rights?
Chesterman ?Human Rights and Subjectivity? Millenium 27.1

Rationality good/Inevitable ? Degreori 2002
The Environment, our natural resources, and modern technology p. 169-76

Wayne State MS (Neg) vs. UMKC FR (Aff.)
1NC Strat
T pressure
T E and Dip Pressure
Global Violence (we separate our selves from the global harms)
Subjugated Knowledge (Scott ?92)
Politics (NPT/Nuclear Tech)
C/P?Just use dip pressure
Framework (Must defend state action of increase econ and dip pressure) 
(Burk/Iverson ?99) (Mitchell ?00)
Case (s)

1. Politics DA
Bush lacks sufficient congressional support to pass the Indian nuclear deal 
in status quo
Lawrence j. Korb, an assistant secretary of defense during the Reagan admin. 
And Peter Ogden are with the center for American process The Washington Post 
August 3 2005
?The Bush Administration?.of its rewards?

Links?Increase pressure on the PRC will increase congressional support for 
Bush?s agenda
Mitton, US Bureau Chief, The Straits Times (Singapore) Sept. 3, 2005
?It would be an exaggeration?China over Taiwan?

Congressional passage of the Indian nuclear deal will collapse the NPT and 
spark a global arms race.
Sacramento Bee July 23, 2005
?Even so, the?that more difficult?


2. Kritik of Experience/Narratives/Subjugated Knowledge

Link: Exposing subjugated histories, documenting the other, or using 
narratives rests on the authority of experience
Scott 92 (Joan, ?Experience,? Feminists Theorize the political, Ed. Judith 
Butler & Joan Scott pg. 24
?This kind of communication?his or her texts?

This is problematic because appeals to experience weakens critical thrust of 
the histories of difference, reaffirms the epistemological frame of 
hegemonic history, naturalizes difference, displaces resistance outside of 
discourse and decontextualizes agency, and forecloses any critical 
examination of the contructivness of our experience
Scott 92 (Joan, ?Experience,? Feminists Theorize the political, Ed. Judith 
Butler & Joan Scott pg. 24
?Documenting the experience?.act in the world?


3. Famework

Flip-Side Good
Dvbvig and Iverson, of ASU 1999
(Kristen Chisholm and Joel O., 
http://debate.uvm.edu/dybvigiverson1000.html.gjm
?research helps to?.opinions and attitudes?

4. Global Violence Kritik
We are the global violence the affirmative depicts. Viewing violence from 
the standpoint of the state serves to relieve our responsibility for 
violence.
Kappeler, 1995 (Susan, ?The will to violence: The politics of Personal 
Behaviour?)
?Violence what we usually?.of war and violence (pg.8-11)

Politicizing the way we think about violence is a precondition for 
non-violence and avoiding replication.
Kappeler, 1995 (Susan, ?The will to violence: The politics of Personal 
Behaviour?)
?A politics aiming?.of ideology itself (6-7)?


5. C/P
A combination of diplomative pressure and cooperation solves the case
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?What is needed at ?.of state action?

Basing pressure on international law arguments creats the perception that 
the US interest is non-political. The CP is empirically proven
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?Human rights first believes?.within china advocating reform?

Targeted support for legal reform would be accepted by China and leads to 
reform
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?The freasibility of providing?.human rights in China?

Targeting legal reform leads to human rights protection and further 
political reforms
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?these new laws contain?.political environment permits?

6. Case
Turn: Economic sanctions decrease freedom of religion in China
Sirico 99 (Robert, President of the action institute for the study of 
religion and liberty. USA today magazine. September. www.againstbombing.org)
?Some people think?china into a recession?

Turn: Unilateral enforcement of religious freedom is harmful because 1 
undermines better multilat monitouring and enforcement 2 blocks compliance 3 
promotes an us v them mindset that undermines religious freedom.
Danchin, 2002 (Peter G., ?US unilateralism and the International Protetion 
of Religious Freedom: The Multilateral Alternative? Columbia, Journal of 
Transnational Law. Lexis
?The part argues that?.and protect abroad?
























































MO State BR (Neg) vs. Wayne State BR (Aff)
ASPEC
T Diplomatic
Russia/China
	Aff. Bremmer Evidence?Non-Unique ***Good Card***
Case Solvency-Util/Consequentialism (AT: Their Genocide Adv./ Their ontology 
argument)
C/P?Do dip pressure only
Aff. Reeve evidence?Must have econ pressure to get China to change policy on 
Sudan
Euro Shift

1. T Diplomatic
?diplomacy is the employment of tact to gain strategic advantage, one set of 
tools being the phrasing of statements in a non-confrontational, or social 
manner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/diplomatic

Violation Direct use of force in plan text violates the resolution?imposing 
tariffs, quotas, or any other form of a sanction on China is not diplomatic 
in nature


2. Russia/China DA
Chian and Russia are moving closer together showing increased relation and 
cooperation
Wanjun and Yun 05 (Liu and Gao, China Daily ?Sino-Russian Relations 
Blossom,? August 3rd, http://english.sohu.com/20050803/n226549444.shtml
?Since establishing diplomatic relations?.growth of bilateral ties?

2. In spite of good relations, no full fledged alliance exists between 
Russia and China. Action by the United States is the only way to make this 
possible
Gilbert Rozman, Prof of Scociology at Princeton, Orbis, Volume 44, Issue 4 
Autumn 2000, Pages 541-555 online journal
?Close ties between China and?.possibility deserves scrutiny?

B. Russia and China unite to counter US diplomatic and economic pressure 
against china
Mathipoulos ?98 Margarita, Cooperation of Conflict, pg. 235
?The relation between?America or Europe?

C. Russia/China partnership allows effecting of multiple simultaneous wars 
of distraction culminating in a nuclear conflict
Rahm 02 Julie M, Parameters, ?Russia China, India: A new strategic triangle 
for a new cold war?? Winter pp.87
?Many Scenarios that would?.and regional relations?


3. Dollar DA
If Washington increases pressure on China, China will respond by boycotting 
the dollar by shifting to Euro assets, derailing the dollar
F. William Engdahl 4/24/2005 (Current Concerns, ?Japan and China tensions 
and Washington?s Asia Geopolitics?, 
http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archive/2005/03/20050312.php
?China holds one weapon it?.if the pressure rises?

Dollar Slip will slow down the global economy
Xie 2005 (andy, Global Economic Forum ?Asia/Pacific: Dollar is the Key?, Jan 
4 http://www.morganstanley.com/GEFdata/digests/20050104-tue.html
?When the dollar bottoms?.economy would follow

This causes a huge war and turns case
Lopez 1998 (Bernardo V., Buisness World ?Global recession phase two: 
Catastrophic?, 9/10)
?What would it be?.its ways internationally?


4. Hardliners Turn
Sanctions will allow monopolies of power to reinforce their 
ideologies?hardliners would be propped up.
James A. Dorn, Cato Journal ?Trade and Human Rights: The Case of China? 1996 
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-5.html
?Economic Sanctions may be?for domestic problems

Economic sanctions props up Hardliners
James A. Dorn, Cato Journal ?Trade and Human Rights: The Case of China? 1996 
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-5.html ?The biggest obstacle?.to 
overthrow them?

Sanctions eliminate private firms in China, solidifying political 
dictatorship
James A. Dorn, Cato Journal ?Trade and Human Rights: The Case of China? 1996 
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-5.html ?Directors of China?s 
state-owned?harsh political dictatorship?


AT: Sanctions
Sanctions restrict freedoms, set a dangerous trade precedent, and do not 
accomplish their desired results
Stuart Anderson (I was not able to get the rest of the cite)


5. Saudia Arabia DA
Current State department focus is on Saudi?s transition to a new king
M. Ghazanfar Ali Khan. Arab New Staff Writer ?More Pledge Allegiance to the 
New King? Arab News The Middle East?s Leading English Language Daily Google 
News, August 5th, 2005
?State department spokesman?.Casey Said?

US diplomacy is focusing on Saudi?s democratic reform.
Political Capital is finite?the plan distracts US Focus.
Terry Anderson and J. Bishop Grewell ?The Greening of Foreign Policy?PERC 
Policy Series, 2002 www.perc.org/pdf/ps20.pdf

Faiure of US diplomacy risks Saudi regime collapse
Gerald Posner, author of ?Secrets of the kingdom: The inside story of the 
secret Saudi-U.S. Connection? The NY Times, The Kingdom and the Power August 
2, 2005 Lexis)
?These are not the?.generation of royals?

Collapse of the House of Saud causes World War 3
Paul Lloyd, The advertiser ?Saudi Arabia?s ruling family key to stability? 
June 26th, 2004 Lexis)
?The Fall of the house?.world war 3?















































Miami GV (Neg) vs. MO State MoWh (Aff)
T Must be Pressure
T Direct on China not on Parent Companies
Relations
Politics
c/p
Orientalism Kritik
Case

Wichita State CS (Aff) vs. Miami MW (Neg)
Relations
Constructions of Evil (Rape adv.)
Threat Construction cards (Genocide adv.)
Politics (Kicked in 2NC)
Chemical Industries Adv T/O
C/P
Nationalism
Biz Con

1. Sino-US Relations
new Dialogue starting between Us and China?Now is a crucial moment
Taiwan press 11 Aug 05 BBC monitoring International Reports Aug. 11th 2005
?The first round of?stage in the future?

Steps can counter act current negative trends in Sino-US relations.
Bonnie Glaser, CSIS Fellow, Comparitive Connections, July 2005 
http://www.csis.org/pacfor/ccejournal.html#usc
?It is premature to?Economic Cooperation summit.

Yuan Peng, China Visiting Fellow, The brooking institute, The Taiwan issue 
in the context of new sino-US strategic cooperation, Summer 2004, pg. 24
?Although Japanese remilitarization?.tactical and temporary?

Good relations key to peace in asia
Michael D. Swaine, Rand Corp., Foreign Affairs, March 2004-April 2004 pg. LN
?Moreover, the maintenance of?.war on terrorism

Relations key to save billions of lives
Dennis Roy, Survival Spring 2000 pg. 76
?A working relationship with?.related political environment?

2. Nationalism
Chinese politics are at a strategic crossroads
China reform Monitor March 7th, 2005 American foreign Policy Council 
http://www.afpc.org/crm/crm/580.shtml
?The people?s republic of China?.share that understanding?

Link?Pressure will increase the risk of a nationalist uprising
Suisheng Zhao, Associate Prof. U. of Denver, Federal News Service December 
7th 2004
?In terms of American influence?.of external pressure?

Rising nationalism will increase the risk china will invade Taiwan
Stephen J. Flanagan, Director, Institute for national strategic studies, 
National Defense University, The people liberation Army and China in 
Transition, August 2003 pg. 9
?Li Contends that the PLA?.national security agenda.?

A US-China war over Taiwan will go nuclear
The strait times (Singapore) June 25th, 2000
?The doomsday scenario?to the Chinese press?

3. Case
Positive approaches work better than negative sanctions
David Cortright, ?The price of peace: Incentives and International Conflict 
Prevention? 1997,
?Perhaps the greatest?.to foster cooperation?

Engagement is preferable to Coercion because sanctions for human rights have 
a poor track record
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?Finally, the counter-productive?.or deployed coercion.?

Economic pressure not only fails but it sometimes lead to worsening domestic 
conditions on China
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?The question of effectiveness?..ameliorate washington?s concerns

The MFN debate proves economic pressure actually creates disincentives for 
china to cooperate with US.
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?In the end, the US threat?.human rights abuses?

Sanctions have a very low success rate?30% at best
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?Much has been written?.1-2%?

Actual Sanctions have a much lower success rate then threatened sanctions
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?A few studies?.out of our analyses?

4. Politics: Iran Cut and Run

Bush is on an upswing after Katrina
The Christian Science Monitor, Sept. 14th, 2005
?Now there are inklings?.has been minimal?

Bush needs to keep high approval rating to prevent a cut and run
The NY Times Sept 11th, 2005
?How that collapse?publicly in July?

A cut and run causes war in the middle east
The Independent April 10th, 2004 Pg. LN
?Option:Cut and Run?.or Islamic rule?


This causes global nuclear exchange
Steinbach, 2002 
http://wagingpeace.org/articles/0203/0331steinbachisraeli.htm
Meanwhile, the existence?.a world conflagaration?



Capital RS Affirmative

Plan: In order to substantially increase diplomatic and economic pressure on 
the PRC in Human Rights, the USFG should renounce support for the campaign 
against UIGHURS, including removing UIGHURS from the state department 
terrorist list and associated diplomatic cover.  Additionally, international 
donors to China should be notified of the campaign.

Solvency
US must pressure China to open dialogue even if they resist ? Schwartz 04
Pressuring China by exposing it?s policies 2 international organizations is 
the only way 2 stop genocide: becqueli 02
Security since 9/11 threaten global civil war ? fundamentally incompatible 
with democracy and threaten growing democratic challenge 2 display paradigm 
of control.  We advocate paradigm of prevention and preventing conditions 
that create security threats.  Legal prosecution of the UIGHUR rather than a 
paradigm of brutal response ? Agamben 2002

Advantages ? Terror Talk justified repressive campaigns of ethnic cleansing 
? pushs UIGHURS into Al qaeda ? Stephe Schwartz 2004
US Sponsoring anti-uighur campaigns
Enlarging Al qaida is last thing we need ? nuclear terrorism would destroy 
society ? chesney ?97

Human rights adv ? us reversal of recognition leads to HIV rates, 
environmental destruction, forced migration and propaganda ? Kurlantzick 
2004
Not enough for the Chinese government to displace UIGHURS ? they are wiping 
out the culture too ? Kutty ?99

Adv. 3 ? Genocide
This is genocide ? Kurlantzick 2004, Balancing security equations is a bad 
paradigm



UT-Dallas 2K5     								                                        UNI
MTCR AFF (1)

Observation One: The Status Quo Space Race:

Mutual concerns over plans for space dominance and missile exports lock the 
US and China into a zero-sum space race ? destabilizing relations and 
risking major confrontation.
Martel & Yoshihara, professor of national security affairs at the Naval War 
College & doctoral candidate at the Fletcher School of International 
Affairs, Tufts University, 2k3
(William and Toshi, ?Averting a US-Sino Space Race,? The Washington 
Quarterly, 26:4, Autumn, 2003, 
http://www.twq.com/03autumn/docs/03autumn_martel.pdf)

Under these conditions hair trigger defensive postures and a space based 
arms race and miscalculation inevitable.
Lewis, postdoctoral fellow in the Advanced Methods of Cooperative Security 
Program at the Center for International and Security Studies University of 
Maryland, 2k4
(Jeffrey, ?What if Space Were Weaponized?? July 2004, Center for Defense 
Information, http://www.cdi.org/PDFs/scenarios.pdf)

This is bad for a lot of reasons - we?ll talk about three scenarios.

A - US -Sino space race:
First, we control the uniqueness ? The US must cautiously engage China?s 
space program or others certainly will. Waiting to take actions will lead a 
space arms race, crush relations and forego the US?s best opportunity to 
shape the future direction of China?s space program.
Johnson-Freese, chair if the Naval War College?s National Security Decision 
Making Department, 2k4
(Joan, ?Space Wei Qi,? Naval War College Review, Spring 2004, 
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/review/2004/spring/art5-sp04.htm)

Any scenario for US ? Sino space conflict will escalate, undermining the 
nuclear restraint of the Cold War.
Krepon & Clary, President and Cofounder of the Henry L. Stimson Center & 
research associate, Center for Contemporary Conflict Studies, 2k3
(Michael & Chris, ?Space Assurance or Space Dominance The Case Against 
Weaponinzing Space,? Henry L. Stimson Center Publications, 2003)

B - The fog of war:

US military forces are reliant on satellite technology for military 
operations. Conflict in space will damage these assets and risk immediate 
escalation to nuclear war.
Lewis, postdoctoral fellow in the Advanced Methods of Cooperative Security 
Program at the Center for International and Security Studies University of 
Maryland, 2k4
(Jeffrey, ?What if Space Were Weaponized?? July 2004, Center for Defense 
Information, http://www.cdi.org/PDFs/scenarios.pdf)

C - GPS Collapse

First, space weaponization will snowball ? immediately destroying critical 
commercial satellites in low Earth orbit
O? Hanlon ?04 (Michael, Senior Fellow in the Foreign Policy Studies Program 
at Brookings and holder of the Sydney Stein Jr. Chair, Neither Star Wars Nor 
Sanctuary: Constraining the Military Uses of Space, Page Denoted Below)


Damage to the GPS system will collapse the global financial system.
Martel & Yoshihara, professor of national security affairs at the Naval War 
College & doctoral candidate at the Fletcher School of International 
Affairs, Tufts University, 2k3
(William and Toshi, ?Averting a US-Sino Space Race,? The Washington 
Quarterly, 26:4, Autumn, 2003, 
http://www.twq.com/03autumn/docs/03autumn_martel.pdf)


Economic Collapse leads to nuclear wars culminating in extinction.
Bearden 2000 (T.E., Director, Association of Distinguished American 
Scientists (ADAS) Fellow Emeritus, Alpha Foundation's Institute for Advanced 
Study, ?The Unnecessary Energy Crisis?, June 24, Online)

Observation Two ? Miss-Isle Exports:

First, despite recent improvements in China?s export controls ? missile 
assistance to Iran and Pakistan continue.
Milhollin, Professor Emeritus, University of Wisconsin Law School, Director 
of the Wisconsin Project on Arms Control, 2k5
(Gary, ?Before the US China Economic and Security Review Commission,? March 
10, 2005, 
http://www.uscc.gov/hearings/2005hearings/written_testimonies/05_03_10wrtr/milhollin_gary_wrts.htm)


We?ll isolate two couple of scenarios.

A ? Pakistan:

Indian nuclear posture remains constrained but could quickly shift into Cold 
War mode if China & Pakistan become more aggressive.
Basrur, fellow, Simon Fraser University, Fulbright Fellow, University of 
Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 2k4
(Rajesh, ?India?s Escalation-Restrain Cycle,?? ESC Control, Chapter 3, 
11-2004, http://www.stimson.org/southasia/pdf/ESCCONTROLCHAPTER3.pdf)


Continued Sino-Pakistan missile cooperation will accelerate the nuclear 
dynamics in the region and force India to deploy their nuclear weapons.
Saunders, Yuan & Kampani, Director of the East Asia Program at the Center 
for Non-proliferation Studies & Senior researches, Monterey Institute, 2k
(Phillip, Jing-dong, Gaurav, ?How and Why China Proliferates Ballistic 
Missile to Pakistan,? rediff special news feature, August 22, 2000, 
http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/aug/22spec.htm)


South Asian nuclear deployment will greatly increase the risks of accidental 
nuclear war and make conflict de-escalation impossible.
Basrur, fellow, Simon Fraser University, Fulbright Fellow, University of 
Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 2k4
(Rajesh, ?India?s Escalation-Restrain Cycle,?? ESC Control, Chapter 3, 
11-2004, http://www.stimson.org/southasia/pdf/ESCCONTROLCHAPTER3.pdf)



In addition, China?s support for Pakistan?s nuclear missile program will 
draw the US and China into a conflict threatening to incinerate a fifth of 
the world population.
Sieff, sr. South Asia Analyst, United Press International, 2k5
(Martin, ?BMD Focus: US, China duel in South Asia,? UPI, August 23, 2005, 
L/N)

Finally, nuclear war in South Asia will kill millions and unleash a wave of 
radioactivity that will encompass the entire region.
Beres, Professor of International Relations, Pittsburgh University, 98
(Louis, ?In a Dark Time: The Expected Consequences of an Indian-Pakistan 
Nuclear Exchange,? American University International Law Review, 1998)

B - Iran so far away:

Iran is importing significant amounts of nuclear materials from China.  If 
Iran continues they will get nuclear weapons leading to a cascade of Middle 
Eastern proliferation.
Sokolski and Clawson ?04 (Henry, HENRY SOKOLSKI is the Executive Director of 
the Nonproliferation
Policy Education Center,and Patrick, PATRICK CLAWSON is deputy director of 
the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and senior editor of Middle 
East Quarterly, ?Checking Iran?s Nuclear Ambitions?, Occasional Paper, 
January, Online: http://www.npec-web.org/books/CheckingIran.pdf)


China is a major supplier of missiles and solid fuel to Iran
Gertz ?03 (Bill, ?Chinese firm hit with U.S. sanctions?, The Washington 
Times, May 23, L/N)



China?s missile assistance is pivotal to Tehran?s missile strategy, allowing 
them to deliver nuclear weapons against regional adversaries.
Salhani ?05 (Claude, ?Iran?s Nuke Missiles?, UPI, August 29, L/N)


Iranian ICBM capability leads to an immediate first strike by Israel.
Salama and Ruster ?04 (Sammy and Karen, Middle East Experts at CNS, 
Monterrey Institute, ?A Preemptive Attack on Iran's Nuclear Facilities: 
Possible Consequences?, Sept 9, Online: 
http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/week/040812.htm)


Iran will retaliate with a massive second strike on Israel.
Salama and Ruster ?04 (Sammy and Karen, Middle East Experts at CNS, 
Monterrey Institute, ?A Preemptive Attack on Iran's Nuclear Facilities: 
Possible Consequences?, Sept 9, Online: 
http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/week/040812.htm)


This leads to global nuclear war.
Steinbach 2002 (John, ?Israeli Weapons of Mass Destruction: a Threat to 
Peace? DC Iraq Coalition, March 2002, CRG, Online Centre for Research on 
Globalisation (CRG)


Observation 3:  Radar Love

China is planning on exporting cruise missiles now to many countries that 
want them. This is in clear violation of MTCR norms.
Dutra ?04 (Michael, Associate, White & Case LLP, New York; J.D., cum laude, 
2003, Georgetown University Law Center; B.A., summa cum laude, 2000, 
University of Southern California, ?STRATEGIC MYOPIA: THE UNITED STATES, 
CRUISE MISSILES, AND THE MISSILE TECHNOLOGY CONTROL REGIME?,  Journal of 
Transnational Law & Policy, Fall, 2004, 14 J. Transnat'l L. & Pol'y 37, L/N)


Cruise missile proliferation will put the US at risk of attack my chemical 
and biological weapons.
Hebert ?02 (Adam J. Hebert, Senior Editor, Air Force, Journal of the Air 
Force Association, "Cruise Control" Vol. 85, No. 12 December 2002, Online: 
http://www.afa.org/magazine/Dec2002/1202cruise.asp)

Biological weapons attack leads to extinction
Ochs ?02 (Richard, ?Biological Weapons Must Be Abolished Immediately?, June 
09, Online: http://www.freefromterror.net/other_articles/abolish.html)


The MTCR is the only way to prevent Cruise missile proliferation- 
strengthening export controls solves cruise missile attacks
Dutra ?04 (Michael, Associate, White & Case LLP, New York; J.D., cum laude, 
2003, Georgetown University Law Center; B.A., summa cum laude, 2000, 
University of Southern California, ?STRATEGIC MYOPIA: THE UNITED STATES, 
CRUISE MISSILES, AND THE MISSILE TECHNOLOGY CONTROL REGIME?,  Journal of 
Transnational Law & Policy, Fall, 2004, 14 J. Transnat'l L. & Pol'y 37, L/N)

Observation Four ? Solvency:

Space cooperation with the United States is the key bargaining chip to 
ensure China complies with MTCR norms ? the loss of the lucrative and 
prestigious cooperation in the ISS would be too much for China to risk.
Zaborsky, sr. research associate, Center for International Trade and 
Security University of Georgia, 2k4
(Victor, ?Does China Belong in the MTCR,? Arms Control Today,? 
http://www.armscontrol.org/ACT/2004_10/Zaborsky.asp?print)

The negative will argue that we?ve tried this before, but past attempts used 
the wrong leverage. Both a stronger carrot and stick are necessary to ensure 
Chinese compliance.
Zaborsky, sr. research associate and Adjunct Professor, Center for 
International Trade and Security, University of Georgia, 97
(Victor, ?US nonproliferation strategy toward the NIS and China,? The 
Nonproliferation Review, Fall, 1997, 
http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/npr/vol05/51/zabors51.pdf)

China wants into the ISS ? there is a unique window of opportunity to 
leverage the ISS to get MTCR commitments, much like the US did with Russia.
Foust, editor, The Space Review, 2k3
(Jeff, ?Shenzhou 5 Launch,? The Space Review,? 10-20-2003, 
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/53/1)

The negative?s cooperation counterplan doesn?t solve the case or compete. 
The military guarantee that cooperation will be equitable and enduring is 
critical to altering the security dynamic between the US and China.
Gallagher, research associate, Center for International and Security 
Studies, 2k5
(Nancy, ?Towards a Reconsideration of the Rules of Space,? Paper for the 
CISSM?s Advanced Methods of Cooperative Security Program, University of 
Maryland, April 20, 
http://www.cissm.umd.edu/documents/Towards%20a%20Reconsideration%20of%20the%20Rules%20for%20Space.pdf)

The plan: The United States Federal Government will condition US support for 
Chinese partnership in the International Space Station on China?s commitment 
to abide by MTCR norms. We?ll clarify.

























OBSERVATION ONE ? COLLISION COURSE



FIRST - U.S. POLICY OVER TAIWAN WILL FORCE AN INEVITABLE WAR  ? SECURITY 
GAURANTEES PUSH TAIWANESE SEPARATISM ? WITH NUCLEAR RESULTS

HELBORN 2004 (Nicolas, Independent Institute, Commentary ? Aug 30, 
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1352, acc: 9/2, KD)


AND?THE TAIWAN RELATIONS ACT  IS U.S. MORAL IMPERIALISM ? IT IMPOSES U.S. 
DOMESTIC LAW ON CHINESE SOVEREIGNTY AND VIOLATES U.S. POSITIONS IN THE THREE 
COMMINUQUES ? HARMING RELATIONS WITH THE PRC

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Avoiding another no-win war? 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FB10Ad06.html,    Feb 10, accessed: sept 
12, 05, KD)

AND?THE NEAR PASSAGE OF THE TAIWAN ENHANCED SECURITY ACT CONTINUES U.S. 
PROVOCATION ? PRESIDENTS FLAUNT THE CONSTITUTION IN ILLEGAL WARS ALL THE 
TIME ? BEIJING HAS TO PLAN FOR A U.S. INTERVENTION IN ITS AFFAIRS

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Avoiding another no-win war? 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FB10Ad06.html,    Feb 10, accessed: sept 
12, 05, KD)

Thus the plan?

The United States Federal Government should substantially increase its 
diplomatic and economic pressure on the People?s Republic of China by 
decoupling all defense commitments by the United States toward Taiwan.  The 
United States will repeal all executive orders and congressional legislation 
toward Taiwan that support United States defense guarantees and security 
assistance towards Taiwan and assure the People?s Republic of China via 
diplomatic channels that the United States will not militarily or 
politically intervene in affairs between Taiwan and the People?s Republic of 
China.  Taiwan will not receive any form of United States security 
assistance or foreign aid for the purpose of weapons purchases.

Ask if you don?t understand, we?ll be happy to tell you what this means.

ADVANTAGE ONE: MISCAL

A SUBPOINT . U.S. PROVOCATION

FIRST, OUR CURRENT POLICY CAUSES MISCAL? BEIJING MIGHT OVERESTIMATE BUSH?S 
FLIP FLOPS ? AND MISREAD INTENTIONS

CARPENTER 2004 (Ted, vice president for defense and foreign policy studies 
at the Cato Institute, President Bush's Taiwan Policy: Immoral and 
Dangerous, http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2592, March 31, acc: 
8/13, KD)

AND?OUR SECURITY GUARANTEES DRIVE THE NEED FOR WAR PREPARATIONS AND 
ELIMINATE DETERRENCE - INTELL FLIGHTS FOR TACTICAL INTELLIGENCE TO DEFEND 
TAIWAN INCREASE RISKS OF MISCAL

JOHNSON 2001 (Chalmers, Pres. Japan Policy Research Institute, The Nation, 
May 14, L/N, KD)
AND?U.S. TAIWAN POLICY LEGITIMATES THE USE OF FORCE BY BOTH SIDES INCREASING 
THE RISK

JOHNSON CONTINUES
(IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH)

AND?U.S. MORAL IMPERIALISM BACKFIRES ? IT ENCOURAGES TAIWANESE SEPERATISM 
AND CHINESE NATIONALISM OVER THE CIVIL WAR ISSUE ? WORST OF ALL WORLDS

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Taiwan a deal breaker for U.S. Security? 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/ China/FB12Ad05.html, Feb 12,  accessed: 
9/12/05, KD)

AND?PEACE BECOMES IRRELEVANT ? U.S. WAR PREPARATIONS OVER TAIWAN BECOME A 
SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY LIKE VIETNAM

PAN 2004  (Chengxin, Department of Political Science and International 
Relations, Faculty of Arts, Australian National University, ?The "China 
threat" in American self-imagination: the discursive construction of other 
as power politics?, Alternatives: Global, Local, Political, June 1)  KD

AND?.U.S. INTERVENTION PROMOTES A POLICY OF SEPERATISM AGAINST CHINA ? 
BEIJING FEARS AN EXPLOSION OF INTERNAL INSTABILTY AND WILL PURSUE ITS TAIWAN 
POLICY AT ALL COSTS FOR IT?S OWN SURVIVAL

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Potential tragedy of miscalculation,? 
http://atimes01.atimes.com/atimes/ China/FB11Ad02.html, Feb 11, accessed: 
sept 12, 05, KD)

AND HERE?S OUR IMPACTS?.THE B SUBPOINT

FIRST ? MOST LIKELY IMPACT - ALL SIDES MISPERCEIVE THE ISSUE NO ONE AGREES 
WHAT THE ?STATUS QUO? IS TO MAINTAIN

CARPENTER 2005 (Ted, vice president for defense and foreign policy studies 
at the Cato Institute, Conflicting Conceptions of the Taiwan Status Quo, 
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3742, April 21, acc: 8/13, KD)

AND?ESCALATION IS QUICK - AND? HAS FIVE WARRANTS - TAIWANESE ESCALATION, 
THINKABILITY, LACK OF A REAL RESEARCH BASE FOR YOUR AUTHORS, POOR U.S. 
JUDGEMENT AND HISTORY DENY YOUR TAKEOUTS ? TAIWAN IS THE ONLY RISK OF 
NUCLEAR WAR BETWEEN SUPERPOWERS

CHINA POST 2005 (Jan 28, http://www.chinapost.com.tw/ backissue/taiwan/ 
detail.asp? ID=57555&GRP=B, acc 9/2, KD)

AND EVEN IF YOU WIN A WARRANT -  IF NO ONE WANTS TO ESCALATE ? WE STILL WIN 
NATIONALISM AND LEGITIMIACY OVERWHELM CONTAINMENT AND DETERRENCE AND MEAN WE 
GO NUCLEAR

JOHNSON 2001 (Chalmers, Pres. Japan Policy Research Institute, The Nation, 
May 14, L/N, KD)



AND? EXPERTS AND HISTORY CONCLUDE AFFIRMATIVE - CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT 
WOULD BE OVER ? RUSSIA WOULD ATTACK EUROPE, INDIA AND PAKISTAN WOULD GO AT 
IT, ASIA WOULD JOIN IN AS THE NUCLEAR FIRESTORM SWEPT OVER THE GLOBE

STRAITS TIMES 2000 (Singapore edition, l/n, JJ)

ADVANTAGE TWO: THE POLITICS OF FEAR

A SUBPOINT ? THE YELLOW PERIL

FIRST - OUR FEAR OF CHINA IS ROOTED IN RACIST CONCERNS ? WE USE THAT 
CONSTRUCTION TO APPEAL TO FEARS OF OUR OWN DECLINE AND PUSH WAR AS AN OPTION 
BECAUSE OF OUR OWN INHERENT SUPERIORITY

OUR TAIWAN POLICY IS ROOTED IN FEAR OF THE ?YELLOW PERIL?

CHAI 02 (Winberg Chai, Prof. of political science @ U Wyoming, Fall, ?The 
Taiwan Factor in U.S.-China Relations: An Interpretation,? pg. 134, Raul)

AND? WE WILL USE OUR POWER TO DESTROY THAT OTHER

SANTOS ?93
Boaventura de Sousa Santos, Dir. of the Center for Social Studies at the 
Univ. of Coimbra, 2003
[http://bad.eserver.org/issues/2003/63/santos.html, BAD SUBJECTS, Issue #63, 
April, Accessed 8-24, 2005, JT]

B SUBPOINT ? SELF FULFILLING WARS

IDENTITIES IMPACT POLICY - OUR TAIWAN POLICY IS BASED ON THE NOTION OF THE 
CHINESE THREAT AND WE DO NOT REFLECT HOW THOSE POLICIES ACTUALLY CAUSE THE 
WAR THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SOLVE ? THE DISCOURSE OF THREAT OVERRIDES ALL 
CONCERNS

PAN 2004  (Chengxin, Department of Political Science and International 
Relations, Faculty of Arts, Australian National University, ?The "China 
threat" in American self-imagination: the discursive construction of other 
as power politics?, Alternatives: Global, Local, Political, June 1)

CASE SOLVES THE WARFIGHTING MENTALITY - UNITED STATES? CURRENT 
ALLIANCE/DETERRENCE POLICY IS BACKWARDS ? THE KEY TO U.S. STRENGTH IN THE 
PACIFIC IS WAR AVOIDANCE NOT WARFIGHTING ? EVEN IF WE WIN, THINKING ON 
TAIWAN LEADS TO ENDLESS FUTURE WARS

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Taiwan a deal breaker for U.S. Security? 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/ China/FB12Ad05.html, Feb 12,  accessed: 
9/12/05, KD)

AND? THESE THREAT ARGUMENTS ARE NOT VALUE FREE AND OBJECTIVE - THEY ARE ONLY 
MIRRORS OR OUR OWN ACTIONS AND WE IMPOSE OUR WESTERN UNDERSTANDING ON CHINA 
? OUR POLICIES LEGITIMATE POWER POLITICS IN RELATIONS AND CREATES SELF 
FULTILLING NOTIONS OF THREAT AND SOLUTION ? THIS RHETORICAL POSITIVISM STOPS 
THE EVOLUTION OF ALTERNATIVE FRAMEWORKS AND UNDERSTANDING

PAN 2004  (Chengxin, Department of Political Science and International 
Relations, Faculty of Arts, Australian National University, ?The "China 
threat" in American self-imagination: the discursive construction of other 
as power politics?, Alternatives: Global, Local, Political, June 1)



AND?WE MUST OVERCOME OUR FEAR OF CHINA TO LIVE TOGETHER IN PEACE OR WE RISK 
GLOBAL EXTINCTION

RATLIFF ?95


OBSERVATION TWO - SOLVENCY

FIRST - WE MUST REJECT THE CURRENT POLICY FRAMEWORK TO QUESTION AND STEP 
AWAY  TO EMBRACE A NEW DISCURSIVE DEBATE ABOUT CHINA POLICY NOT ROOTED IN 
THREATS

PAN 2004  (Chengxin, Department of Political Science and International 
Relations, Faculty of Arts, Australian National University, ?The "China 
threat" in American self-imagination: the discursive construction of other 
as power politics?, Alternatives: Global, Local, Political, June 1)

AND?CHINESE PROBLEMS NEED CHINESE SOLUTIONS ? DECOUPLING STOPS AN ARMS RACE 
THAT FUELS A BIGGER INEVITABLE WAR ? DETERRENCE WON?T STOP CHINA FROM 
DEFENDING ITS OWN TERRITORY AND OUR ALLIES DON?T SUPPORT OUR POLICY

LIU 2005   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/ 
GD05Ad07.html, Apr 5, accessed: 9/11, KD)

WE SOLVE QUICKLY ? PEACE WILL COME BEFORE THE 2008 OLYMPICS WITH THE PLAN  
EIGHT WARRANTS ? THE 2004 YUAN VOTE ? LACK OF ASIAN SUPPORT FOR INDEPENDENCE 
? THE 2004 ELECTION ? DECREASES IN DEFENSE SPENDING ? BEIJINGS SOFTENING IN 
THE 2004 WHITE PAPER ? THE 2005 JOINT STATEMENT ? REACTION TO OPENING OF 
TRANSPORT AND THE EASING OF THE INVESTMENT BAN  MEAN THAT AN OPENING WOULD 
BE ACCEPTED WHEN YOU VOTE AFF

JOHNSON 2005 (Chalmers, President ? Japan Policy Research Institute,No 
Longer the Lone Superpower: Coming to terms with China, JPRI working paper 
105 - MARCH http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=2259, Acc: 8/31, KD)

DECOUPLING  THE DEFENSE RELATIONSHIP SOLVES THE TAIWAN ISSUE AND JUMPSTARTS 
A COOPERATIVE RELATIONSHIP ? IT IS THE PRIMARY CHINESE GLOBAL CONCERN ? AND 
BUSH?S POLICY OF PROVOCATION IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Potential tragedy of miscalculation,? 
http://atimes01.atimes.com/atimes/ China/FB11Ad02.html, Feb 11, accessed: 
sept 12, 05, KD)




UMKC FR Affirmative

single photo conceptualizes china
Michael Dutton 1998, Streetlife China, pg 17-18
there is only one?binary opposites

view of china as entity fixed in time stems from orientation divides east vs 
west, view is dehumanizing
Said 1978, pg 108-109
thus as revolutionary?their fellow citizens

we formulate policies towards china based on vision of china as belligerent 
aggressor, becomes self fulfilling prophecy world locked into fear and 
aggression
Morgan 2004 ?Distinguishing Truth, Knowledge and Belief?,
the idea that it?justify 2 or 3

narrative
ET: Falun Gong Appeals to Hu to stop the Persecution Before
Hu?s
Visit
Yang Honghua 9-10-2005
(www.faluninfo.net/display/anarticle.asp?ID=9245 )


Morgans analysis applies to the debate community in general. What has come 
to be considered ?traditional debate? is debate regarding china as an 
aggressor or threat. ?traditional debate? has become less question about 
whether or not the assumption that china is doing something wrong is true 
and more a question of what needs to be done to stop china. Take the debate 
topic discussion ? focused on what da and cp ground exists and less about 
the people who would be impacted of personal view from ?china?.

debate is viewed monolithically by many people who choose to exonerate the 
resolution through a set conception of policymaking and fiat. These actions 
fail to view analyze or understand the people in china that are impacted and 
affected by those decisions. Instead these actions continue to essentialize 
cultures ? peoples and beliefs because they neglect investigation, 
evaluation of emotions , and listening to the voices of people that would be 
impacted by such and action.

In essence the idea that they us or west knows what is best is perpetuated 
by the mindset that emphasizes focus on fiat and pretend for the purpose of 
providing ?fair? ground in the policy world. This view is not necessarily 
different than the west \viewing china as a static entity to formulate 
policies toward in one or more of the following areas.

We see affirming the resolution as a mechanism to interrogate and change how 
the us enacts foreign policy toward china. Traditional means of enacting 
pressure onto china have mainly incited resentment die to misunderstandings 
of the actual people in china. It is near impossible to have a good debate 
about a specific economic pressure like export controls until we know where 
those arguments came from and consider more personal views.

We employ the use of narrative imagination to challenge the essentialization 
of the lives of billions of people. Narrative imagination is a theory whose 
basis can be described as a way of imagining that you are in another 
person?s shoes. In other words, imagine that you are someone in china and 
the us were to enact a policy to substantially increase diplomatic and 
economic pressure on the people?s republic of china in areas of trade, human 
rights, weapons nonproliferation, and Taiwan.

there are a multiplicity of experiences of people in china we examine a few 
views of the resolution. Feel free to not limit yourself to these 
imaginations. Take the falun gong practitioners in china. Imagine that 
practicing your religion is reason enough for you to be thrown in prison and 
tortured. This is what the falun gong worry about every day while they are 
taking care of their children of going to work. Notice how some of the fulan 
gong reject a static view of china and on exhibit high hopes for their new 
president hu jintao. The call on the us government to pressure Hu to take 
action is outlines in the following discussion

narrative
Chen Yonglin: My Story
The Epoch Times August 31st 2005
http://english.epochtimes.com/tools/printer.asp?id=31793)

employing narrative increases awareness and respect for others while 
reminding us that they still have agency
Nussbaum 1997 cultivating humanity: a classical defense of reform in liveral 
education pg 96-97
the poe in..for justice

narrative imagination is an active process causes critical thinking and 
compassion
Nussbaum 1995 pg 31
the novel tells?in it

even if imagination not perfect must try it
Nussbaum pg xvi
but will it?up on ourselves

Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation x__ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Emporia CR
Negative Team:

[C

ADVANTAGE 1: THE ROCK (Space)
ADVANTAGE 2: THE HUG (U.S.-Sino Relations)


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Plan:
The United States Federal Government should substantially increase 
diplomatic pressure to become a limited partner in the International Space 
Station and economic pressure by amending the Export Administration Act to 
establish dual use space technology export controls on the People's Republic 
of China. Funding and enforcement through normal means.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

OBSERVATION 2: SOLVENCY

THE U.S. SHOULD ADOPT A LIMITED ENGAGEMENT POLICY WITH CHINA OVER SPACE 
COOPERATION THAT DOES NOT DIRECTLY AID OR HINDER CHINA?S SPACE PROGRAM AND 
FOCUSES COOP ON SPECIFIC PROJECTS. THIS WOULD PREVENT CHINA FROM 
CAPITALIZING ON TECH TRANSFERS FOR MILITARY UPGRADES AND ACTS AS A 
CONFIDENCE BUILDING MEASURES FOR SINO-U.S. RELATIONS

Dr. Larry Wortzel, vice president for foreign policy & defense studies of 
The Heritage Foundation, 2005
[Ad Astra, ?The Rules of Engagement: The Russia Model,? Spring, 2005, p. 
24-25, JT]

?Despite fears about the?on board the ISS?




THE UNITED STATES FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD BRING CHINA ON BOARD THE 
INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION. CONGRESS SHOULD AMEND THE EXPORT ADMINISTRATION 
ACT TO ESTABLISH EXPORT CONTROLS ON ALL DUAL-USE SPACE TECHNOLOGY FOR CHINA. 
THE ISS PRESENTS A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO ADVANCE BIOMEDICAL SPACE RESEARCH 
AND CHINESE SPACE TRANSPARENCY

Dr. Larry Wortzel, vice president for foreign policy & defense studies of 
The Heritage Foundation, 2005
[Ad Astra, ?The Rules of Engagement: The Russia Model,? Spring, 2005, p. 
24-25, JT]

?There are a couple of natural?.increasing cooperation with China?




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

BSERVATION 1: INHERENCY AND HARMS

CHINA ALREADY FEELS LIKE AN OUTSIDER ON SPACE. THE U.S. IS NOT
ACTING TOWARD COOP
TariqMalik 2004 ***This evidence uses gender biased language we do not 
read!!!!
[http://www.space.com/news/us_china_040428.html, ?U.S. Snubbed China's Offer 
for Space Cooperation:
'Technology Not Mature',? 28 April, Accessed 8-1-05,

?Despite joining the elite?.was not mature?


THE 2K4 MEETING WAS ONLY NASA-SPONSERED & INCLUDED A DOZEN
OTHER COUNTRIES. IT WAS NOT A SIGNAL OF NEW SINO-U.S. SPACE COOP

CARREAU & REINERT 2K4 [MARK CARREAU, PATTY REINERT, The Houston Chronicle, 
Nov. 19, Pg. A1, ?HEADLINE: NASA MAKES FIRST OVERTURE TO CHINA; Beijing 
takes part in a workshop with 30 other countries)

?With the blessing of the US?will be a partnership?

Plan:
The United States Federal Government should substantially increase 
diplomatic pressure to become a limited partner in the International Space 
Station and economic pressure by amending the Export Administration Act to 
establish dual use space technology export controls on the People's Republic 
of China. Funding and enforcement through normal means.


ADVANTAGE 1: THE ROCK

THE U.S. BAN IS WHAT KEEPS CHINA OUT OF THE SPACE STATION. CHINESE 
PARTICIPATION WOULD ALLOW US TO OVERCOME DELAYS, FUNDING SHORTFALLS AND 
EXPANDS EXPLORATION
The Sinomania! Center For Research On Modern China, 2004
[http://www.sinomania.com/CHINANEWS/space_for_us_all.htm, ?Space For Us All, 
Why the USA should let China in the International Space Station,? Accessed 
8-8-05, JT]

?China and the ESA are currenty?human space exploration?

SINO-U.S. SPACE COOP REINVOGORATES PUBLIC WILL FOR SPACE & SOLVES CURRENT 
PITFALLS OF THE SPACE STATION
Migl, 2003 [Hayden Migl, The Battalion, UniversityWire, October 27, 
HEADLINE: U.S. should join China to promote space exploration,

?President John F. Kennedy?over-budget space outpost?
THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION IS ESSENTIAL TO PERMANENT HUMAN SETTLEMENTS, 
WHICH ARE THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID INEVITABLE EXTINCTION FROM ASTEROIDS
Chris KRIDLER 2003
[HEADLINE: Public missing space message, FLORIDA TODAY (Brevard County, FL), 
November 19, p. 1,

?Kennedy space center director?.would be the clincher?

OUR FUTURE SURVIVAL IN SPACE DEPENDS ON THE UNDERSTANDING WE GET FROM SPACE 
STATION EXPERIMENTS
Paul Hensarling, 2004
[The Daily Cougar, University Wire, February 6, HEADLINE: ISS vital to 
future space travel,

?If we are even?.enthusiastic about mars?



SPACE COLONIZATION IS VIRTUALLY INEVITABLE
Diane Clay, 2005
[The Daily Oklahoman, April 26, Pg. 1D, HEADLINE: COLONIZATION; Idea moving 
toward reality, JT]

?The idea of building space?with specialized skills?



?We must get off this planet?..out into space?


ADVANTAGE 2: THE HUG

FIRST, A DECLINE IN U.S. GLOBAL DOMINANCE IS INEVITABLE, WITH CHINA WAITING 
IN THE WINGS TO FILL THE VOID OF SPACE DEVELOPMENT. MULTIPLE SCENARIOS COULD 
DERAIL GROWING ECONOMIC RELATIONS, BUT OPENING COOPERATIVE CHANNELS WITH 
CHINA ON SPACE SECURES THE PARTNERSHIP
Duignan-Cabrera 2K5 *This evidence uses gender biased language we do not 
read or support!
[Anthony Duignan-Cabrera, Editorial Director of Imaginova Corporation's 
Consumer Media Division & editor of Ad Astra Magazine, Ad Astra, ?Special 
Report: Emerging China, Engaging China,? Spring, p. 20, JT]

?As the dawn breaks on the??communication and cooperation?


A U.S. INVITATION TO COOP IN SPACE IMPROVES SINO-U.S. RELATIONS
LeonardDavid 2003
[http://www.space.com/news/china_cooperation_030121.html, ?Space 
Cooperation: The China Factor,? 05 January,
Accessed 7-29-05, JT]

?In light of recent?.a time,? Cheng said.?



?To be sure?.survival of the world?










Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Baylor RT
Negative Team:

[C
?Security Council Aff?

A1?Miscalculation
A2?Israeli disclosure
A3- The Caspian
Scenario 1?Iran-Russia Conflict
Scenario 2?Russian Economy
A4- Turkish Nationalism

Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

PLAN: THE USFG SHOULD SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE ITS DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC 
PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE?S REPUBLIC OF CHINA IN THE AREA OF WEAPONS 
NONPROLIFERATION BY PLACING SMART SANCTIONS ON CHINESE PARENT COMPANIES IF 
CHINA REFUSES TO SUPPORT OR AT LEAST ABSTAIN FROM UNITED NATIONS SANCTIONS 
ON IRAN.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

O2- Solvency

A. UN sanctions on Iran are key to check prolif
Wisconsin Project ?05?.http://www.iranwatch.org (cited above)

B. Even minor UN sanctions lay the groundwork for future action on Iran
Wisconsin Project ?04?(cited above)

C. Only pressure and sanctions on Iran will solve
Sneh 12-13-03; http://www.mediamonitors.net

D. US must pressure China to prevent a Chinese Veto
Tkacik, Sept. 2. ?05; John, http://www.heritage.org

E. Only the UN solves; Iran will bow to UN pressure
Friedman 2-28-05; National Review, LN

F. Unilateral sanctions fail; only multilateral UN action solves
Perkovich & Manzanero ?04; Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, 
www.ceip.org




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

O1- Inherency

A. U.S. must move quickly to ensure Iran doesn?t nuclearize; Ahmadinejad has 
crushed moves for reform in Iran; Scotland on Sunday, 8-14-05, LN, ?Tehran 
is uncompromising?
B. U.S. will take Iran to the UN Security Council sometime in September, 
they will push for UN nonprolif sanctions. Charleston Gazette, 8-15-04; 
?800-pound gorilla of American foreign policy?
C. Iran?s nuclear program is not peaceful; they are developing nukes and 
delivery systems; Washington Quarterly, 28.3. (2005)? Kathleen McInnis
D. China will Veto UN sanctions o Iraq in the SQ; Agence France Press 
8-12-05; ?China needs to keep firing?.

PLAN: THE USFG SHOULD SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE ITS DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC 
PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE?S REPUBLIC OF CHINA IN THE AREA OF WEAPONS 
NONPROLIFERATION BY PLACING SMART SANCTIONS ON CHINESE PARENT COMPANIES IF 
CHINA REFUSES TO SUPPORT OR AT LEAST ABSTAIN FROM UNITED NATIONS SANCTIONS 
ON IRAN.

A1?Miscalculation

Iran nuclearization =s nuclear war and miscalculation, even a small conflict 
coujld escalate

Wisconsin Project on nuclear arms control, ?05; http://www.iranwatch.org

A2?Israeli disclosure

A. Iranian nuclearization causes Israel to disclose its nuclear capabilities
McInnis ?05 (cited above)

B. Israeli disclosure spurs regional arms race and mutually assured 
destruction within 5 years; Farr ?99; No.2 USAF Counterproliferation Center 
Air War College; http://64.233.179.104

A3- The Caspian

Scenario 1?Iran-Russia Conflict
Scenario 1?Iran-Russia Conflict

A. Iran will exploit its nuclear advantage to jockey for control of the 
Caspian
Schake & Yaphe ?01; ?The Strategic Implications of a Nuclear Armed Iran.? 
http://scholar.google.com

B. Iranian intervention in Caspian =s war with Russia

Zaborski ?05; TWQ: Reassessing Deterrence, Vol.28, n3, p.153, Summer 05
C. This leads to Russian nuclear first-strikes on Iran
Zaborski ?05

Scenario 2?Russian Economy

A. Iran will cutoff Russia from Caspian oil revenues
Zaborski ?05

B. Oil revenues are key to Russian economic stability
Moscow Times, Dec. 9, 04; http://www.themoscowtimes.com

C. Russian economic collapse causes nuclear civil war
John David, Foreign Affairs, J/F ?99




A4- Turkish Nationalism

A. Nuclear Iran =s nationalism and instability in Turkey
Jon Feiser, 1-28-05; http://www.pinr.com

B. Turkey is a pivot state; instability hurts US interests in the Caspian
Larabee & Lesser ?05; http://www.rand.org

C. Stable Turkey is key to prevent Russian military expansion in the Caspian
Khalilizhad, Larabee, & Lesser, ?00; http://www.rand.org

D. Russian military adventurism =s nuclear war; Cohen ?96; Heritage 
Foundation Backgrounder #1065;






Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Baylor CM & FS
Negative Team:

[C



Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

PLAN: PLAN: THE USFG SHOULD SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE ITS DIPLOMATIC AND 
ECONOMIC PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE?S REPUBLIC OF CHINA IN THE AREA OF WEAPONS 
NONPROLIFERATION BY PLACING SMART SANCTIONS ON CHINESE ?PARENT? COMPANIES.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

[ No solvency stuff yet ]



Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

A1- Iranian Prolif

A. Chinese companies are increasing nuclear coop with Iran despite current 
sanctions
Milhollin, 05 (cited above)

B. Iran is on the brink of nuclearization
LA Times, 6-26-05; LN ?move ahead at full speed?

C. Iran will have nukes in 8 months
Washington Times 5/24/05; LN; ?the point of no return?

D. Iran will attack Israel with nukes
Louis Rene Beres April 6, ?05; www.worldnetdaily.com

E. This kills millions and obliterates Israel
Beres (cited above)

A2- Pakistan

A. China is increasing nuclear coop with Pakistan
Malik April 29, 04. http://www.jamestown.org
B. Continued coop bw China/Pakistan risks was with India
Agence France Presse, 4-12-05; ?three wars with Pakistan?

C. This kills 12million people on the subcontinent
Shanker & McCarthy ?02; NYT, May 28th, LN; ?12 million people instantly?.






















Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Baylor JL & LO
Negative Team:

[C


Complicity with mass atrocities in Olympic Stadium
Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

PLAN: The USFG should boycott the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

01- Cognizance

A. A US boycott is the only way to force China to respect human rights
RSF.Org 2005 (cited above)

B. Boycott massively increases diplomatic and economic pressure on China
The Applied History Research Group, 2001; 
http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history

C. Inaction in the face of atrocities makes one complicit, risking all life 
on earth
Vetlesen ?00; Journal of Peace Research, v37, n4, p.522)

D. The US should link improved human rights performance to participation in 
the 08 Olympics; Tkacik ?01; Heritage Executive Memorandum #764; 
http://www.heritage.org

E. Boycott is the only way to stand up for the principles of Democracy, and 
for the symbol of the Olympics; TRIBUNE MEDIA SERVICES, July 18th 01;




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
02- Complacency
A. In preparation for the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, the Chinese have ordered 
a massive crackdown on human rights and dissent of all kinds
     Reporters Without Borders, RSF.Org 2005; http://www.rsf.org

B. The Chinese government has authorized strike-hard campaigns to crush free 
expression
Students for a Free Tibet, ?05; http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org

C. These campaigns will last until the 2008 Games are over
The Epic Times, 2004; http://english.epochtimes.com/news

D. These campaigns lead to the arbitrary execution of dissidents
Norbu, ?04; Buying the Dragon?s Teeth; pp66-7.

E. These mass executions are taking place in Olympic Stadium!
Norbu ?04?.




Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Iowa (All Teams)
Negative Team:

[C

CONTENTION TWO:  THE EAGLE  SOARS ? WE ISOLATE TWO SCENARIOS FOR HEGEMONIC 
DECLINE

SUBPOINT A ? ECONOMIC COMPETITIVENESS
SUBPOINT B ? TECHNOLOGICAL LEAD
SUBPOINT C ? HEGEMONY IS GOOD
CONTENTION THREE: WTO CREDIBILITY


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

The United States Federal Government shall bring a formal complaint against 
the People?s Republic of China under the World Trade Organization dispute 
settlement mechanisms for failure to fulfill its obligations under the 
Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights.  The 
United States Federal Government shall threaten tariffs on imported goods 
from the People?s Republic of China that are equal to the damages 
articulated in the complaint given to the World Trade Organization.  If the 
World Trade Organization rules in favor of the United States, the United 
States Federal Government shall enact tariffs on imported goods from the 
People?s Republic of China in equal to the amount specified by the World 
Trade Organization?s ruling.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

BRINGING A COMPLAINT TO THE WTO AGAINST CHINA?S INTELLECTUAL PIRACY IS A 
CRITICAL FORM OF DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC PRESSURE THAT CAN CREDIBLY FORCE 
CHINA TO COMPLY WITH THEIR WTO COMMITMENTS.

JOHN J. TKACIK, HERITAGE FOUNDATION CHINA POLICY RESEARCH FELLOW, OCT 23 
2003
HTTP://WWW.HERITAGE.ORG/RESEARCH/TRADEANDFOREIGNAID/BG1698.CFM, BACKGROUNDER 
#1689
China has been a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) for almost two 
years

EMPIRICALLY, WHEN THE CHINESE HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF 
IPR LAWS, THEY DO IT.  A WTO CASE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE CHINESE TO TAKE 
ACTION ON PIRACY.

U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, HOWARD BERMAN 2005
FEDERAL NEWS SERVICE, MAY 17
As noted by the Chamber of Commerce in the year ending




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
CONTENTION ONE: THE CURSE OF THE BLACK MARKET

DESPITE RECENT CHINESE ACTIONS TO INCREASE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHT 
ENFORCEMENT, PIRACY IS ON THE RISE IN CHINA NOW AND WILL ONLY GET WORSE ? 
THIS IS THREATENING US-CHINA TRADE RELATIONS, US INDUSTRIAL GROWTH, AND 
OPENS THE POSSIBILITY FOR A WTO CASE AGAINST CHINA.

STATES NEWS SERVICE IN 2005 MAY 18, LEXIS
"The production and export by Chinese manufacturers of" and "criminal 
penalties were imposed and carried out."

THE EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING THAT THE CHINESE HAVE NOT MET THEIR WTO 
COMMITMENTS ? THE US TRADE REPRESENTATIVE HAS ALL THE EVIDENCE THEY NEED TO 
BRING A CASE AGAINST CHINA IN THE WTO, YET THEY CONTINUE TO NOT PURSUE THE 
ISSUE AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR COMPETITIVENESS.

BEN CHOATE, FORMER REFORM PARTY CANDIDATE AND GWU ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, MAY 
12 2005
NEW YORK TIMES
"On joining the WTO, Chinese leaders assumed certain obligations to the 
other 147 member states"

CONTENTION TWO:  THE EAGLE  SOARS ? WE ISOLATE TWO SCENARIOS FOR HEGEMONIC 
DECLINE

SUBPOINT A ? ECONOMIC COMPETITIVENESS

THE US MUST TAKE ACTION NOW OR SEE ITS ECONOMIC HEALTH DETERIORATE.  PIRACY 
IN CHINA IS UNDERMINING US ECONOMIC GROWTH AND COMPETITIVENESS, AND WILL 
SOON CAUSE US TO LOSE OUR POSITION AS THE GLOBAL ECONOMIC LEADER.

U.S. REPRESENATIVE CLIFF STEARNS IN 2005
FDCH, June 9
U.S.-China trade began to grow shortly after diplomatic relations were 
established in 1979, paving the way for a bilateral trade

COMPETITIVENESS AND PRODUCTIVITY IS CRITICAL TO OVERALL US HEGEMONY.

KHALILZAD, RAND CORP., SPRING 95
[WASHINGTON QUARTERLY]
The United States is unlikely to preserve its military and technological 
dominance

DON?T BOTHER WITH KRUGMAN ? COMPETITIVENESS ROCKS AND IMPROVES US HEGEMONY 
IN SEVERAL WAYS.

HUNTINGTON, HARVARD IR PROFESSOR, SPRING 93
[INTERNATIONAL SECURITY, VOL. 17, NO. 4]
In the coming years, the principal conflicts of interests involving

SUBPOINT B ? TECHNOLOGICAL LEAD

PIRACY IN CHINA IS ALSO DEVASTATING TO US TECHNOLOGICAL COMPETITIVENESS ? 
THE US MUST USE THE DISPUTE SETTLEMENT PROCESS NOW TO SOLVE IPR ABUSES OR 
RISK THE COLLAPSE OF ITS SUPERPOWER ROLE.

CHOATE, FORMER REFORM PARTY CANDIDATE AND GWU ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, 2005
HOT PROPERTY: THE STEALING OF IDEAS IN AN AGE OF GLOBALIZATION, PP. 286
Strikingly, the massive theft of U.S.-owned intellectual properties as a 
contributing cause to America's technological decline has






THE LOSS OF OUR TECHNOLOGICAL LEADERSHIP TO CHINA WILL ALSO UNIQUELY 
UNDERMINE OUR HEGEMONY ? ALL ASPECTS OF OUR HEGEMONY DEPEND ON A 
TECHNOLOGICAL EDGE AND CHINA WILL USE OUR LOSS OF TECHNOLOGICAL LEADERSHIP 
TO PURSUE A BELLICOSE FOREIGN POLICY.

TONELSON, US BUSINESS & INDUSTRY COUNCIL RESEARCH FELLOW, MARCH 31 2004
FDCH, House Energy & Commerce Committee Testimony
World technological leadership in particular is largely responsible for 
America's superpower status and all the strategic

SUBPOINT C ? HEGEMONY IS GOOD

LOSS OF HEGEMONY LEADS TO THE RISE OF GLOBAL RIVAL AND GLOBAL NUCLEAR 
EXCHANGE.

KHALILZAD, RAND CORP., SPRING 95
[WASHINGTON QUARTERLY]
Under the third option, the United States

US PULLOUT ALSO GUARANTEES MULTIPLE SCENARIOS FOR NUCLEAR WAR.

HIRSCH 2003

CONTENTION THREE: WTO CREDIBILITY

THE US HASN?T USED THE DISPUTE SETTLEMENT PROCESS TO FORCE CHINA TO COMPLY 
WITH THE WTO ? THIS IS UNDERMINING OUR CREDIBILITY IN FORCING CHINA TO 
COMPLY WITH WTO STANDARDS AND IN THE WTO PROCESS.

CHOATE, FORMER REFORM PARTY CANDIDATE AND GWU ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, 2005
Hot Property: The Stealing of Ideas in an Age of Globalization, pp. 235
Strangely, the United States, which fought so hard and paid so much to put 
TRIPS into place

CHINA?S ACCESSION INTO THE WTO WILL BE THE FOCAL POINT OF  THE WTO 
NEGOTIATIONS IN HONG KONG.

FREEMAN, USTR ASSISTANT, APRIL 14 2005
FDCH
As China's integration into the world economy deepens, it becomes

WTO CREDIBILITY IS ON THE BRINK NOW ? THE UPCOMING MEETINGS ON HONG KONG 
WILL BE A CRITICAL TEST FOR THE WTO?S SURVIVAL.

AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE 2005 July 31 Lexis
As the World Trade Organization struggles to break down more global

SUCCESSFUL IMPLEMENTATION OF WTO RULES IN CHINA IS CRITICAL TO THEIR 
ACCESSION AND THE SURVIVAL OF THE WORLD TRADING SYSTEM ? IT WILL REKINDLE 
INTEREST IN THE WTO AND IMPROVE ITS LEGITIMACY.

MASTEL, GLOBAL ECONOMIC POLICY PROGRAM DIRECTOR, JULY 1 2000
GEORGETOWN LAW REVIEW
In the end, these initiatives may also rekindle interest in the WTO

A SUCCESSFUL WORLD TRADING SYSTEM IS CRITICAL TO SOLVING NUCLEAR WINTER AND 
PEACE WITH CHINA.

COPLEY NEWS SERVICE 99 Dec 1
For decades, many children in America and other countries went to


Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade _x_  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Kansas State
Negative Team:

[C
Chinese Democracy

Cyber-Warfare


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Plane: The United States Federal Government should through the Executive 
branch issue a series of public statements asking the People?s Republic of 
China to end its restrictions on internet content and also ban the sale of 
filtering software and hardware equipped with such filtering capabilities 
from the United States companies.  Funding and Enforcement through normal 
means, we?ll clarify intent.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

US diplomatic pressure is necessary to get China to open up its internet 
reporting ? the United States must take a coordinated diplomatic stance in 
order to be effective
Maochun Yu, Professor Naval Academy, June 5, 2003
?SARS IN CHINA: IMPLICATIONS FOR INFORMATION CONTROL, INTERNET CENSORSHIP, 
AND THE ECONOMY? Hearing before the US-China Economic and Security Review 
Commission US Government Printing Office

Lack of export restrictions on US filtering software caused implementation 
of Chinese restriction on the internet by US companies ? they wont stop 
merely with diplomatic pressure alone
Lokman Tsui, University of Leiden Political Science, 2001
http://www.lokman,nu/thesis/010717-thesis.pdf july ?Internet in China: Big 
Mama is Watching You/Internet Control and the Chinese Government? MA Thesis




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
Advantage 1: Chinese Democracy
The Chinese economy is going to collapse inevitably without democracy
Bruce Gilley, contributing editor of Far Eastern Economic Review and lived 
in China and Hong Kong for more than a decade, and now a doctoral student in 
political science at Princeton University.  China?s Democratic Future: How 
It Will Happen and Where It Will Lead. 2004 p.40

Economic collapse in China leads to regime change that could reemerge in a 
new authoritarianism
Larry Diamond is a sernior research fellow at the Hoover Institution. The 
Global Prospect. HOOVER DIGEST, 1999 No. 4. 
http://www.hooverdigest.org/994/diamond.html

Promoting a policy of a politically open internet by restricting US 
companies sales and diplomatic efforts will cause grassroots democratic 
reform in China ? this is critical to prevent a threat filled China emerging 
and to ushering in Democracy
John J Tkacik, Jr Heritage Foundation, 2004 ?Chinas Orwellian Internet 
Backgrounder #1806 October 8, 2004 
http://www.heritage.org/Research/AsiaandthePacific/bg1806.cfm#_ftn3

Communications like the Internet will be critical in order to successfully 
extricate the CCP from power
Bruce Gilley, contributing editor of Far Eastern Economic Review and lived 
in China and Hong Kong for more than a decade, and now a doctoral student in 
political science at Princeton University.  China?s Democratic Future: How 
It Will Happen and Where It Will Lead. 2004 p.40

Extrication will create more stability than a collapse or overthrow
Bruce Gilley, contributing editor of Far Eastern Economic Review and lived 
in China and Hong Kong for more than a decade, and now a doctoral student in 
political science at Princeton University.  China?s Democratic Future: How 
It Will Happen and Where It Will Lead. 2004 p.40

The Chinese economy is key to the world economy
Nick Beans, China ?Overheating? spells trouble for world economy, 5 May 2004 
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/may2004/chin-m05_prn.shtml

Economic collapse causes global nuclear war ending in extinction
Bearden, 2000 (Lieutenant Colonel in the U.S. Army, 2000, The Unnecessary 
Energy Crisis: How We Can Solve It, 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big-Medicine/message/642)

Democratic China will create good Chinese Japanese relations and prevent 
Japan from rearming
Bruce Gilley, contributing editor of Far Eastern Economic Review and lived 
in China and Hong Kong for more than a decade, and now a doctoral student in 
political science at Princeton University.  China?s Democratic Future: How 
It Will Happen and Where It Will Lead. 2004 p.40

Japanese rearm causes extinction
Joseph Cirincione (Director of the Non-Proliferation Project at the Carnegie 
Endowment for International Pace in Washington, D.C.) Marth 4, 2000
?Nuclear Chain Reaction?, Nando Times, Online, 
http://www.commondreams.org/views/030400-104.htm
Advantage 2: Cyber Warfare
China sees the US as an enemy ? a cyber attack against US businesses is 
inevitable in the status quo ? US is vulnerable ? we need strong software to 
stop harmful effects of attack and studies underestimate China?s capability
Frederick W. Stakelbeck Front Page Resources 2005 
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18870 ?The 
Approaching Chinese Cyber Storm?, July 29th

US companies lead the way in providing the Chinese Government the ability to 
filter the internet ? this causes piracy of US software
Ken Berman, International Broadcasting Bureau June 5, 2003
?SARS IN CHINA: IMPLICATIONS FOR INFORMATION CONTROL, INTERNET CENSORSHIP, 
AND THE ECONOMY? Hearing before the US-China Economic and Security Review 
Commission US

This piracy also makes US businesses vulnerable ? it?s the same software 
used in our business
Commissioner Dreyer US China Economic and Security Review Commission June 5, 
2003, Hearing before the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission US 
Government Printing Office

Offensive cyber technology allows Taiwan invasion preventing US intervention 
LA Times 2002
http://www.latimes.com/la-04502china.story ?CIA Warns of Chinese Plans for 
Cyber-Attacks on U.S.?

Taiwan is a tight-rope for the US and China; any miss-step could result in a 
nuclear holocaust
Johnson, Pres of the Japan Policy Research Institute and Prof @ UC-SD, 2001 
(Chalmers, ?Time to Bring the Troops Home,? Nation 272(19), May 14, pp. 
20-22)

China is planning a pre-emptive cyber warfare attack against US computers ? 
this would destroy our economy and political systems
Charles R. Smith, Worldwide Writer, 2003 Tuesday Aug 19 2003 
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/19/121728.shtml



Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade _x_  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Kansas BU
Negative Team:

[C
World Economy-Dollar Collapse Scenario
U.S. Leadership/Hegemony
               -- Steel Industry Collapse/Maritime Power
               -- U.S. Competitiveness



Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

[ Plan text not yet completed ? 9.15.05 ]

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

revaluing china?s currency is the only way to save the pending economic 
collapse only economic pressure can solve, a strategy of cooperation will 
fail.
30 August 2005. Christopher Smallwood is a director of Lombard Street 
Associates. http://news.independent.co.uk/business/comment/article309031.ece

CHINA WILL SAY YES ? THEY NEED ACCESS TO US MARKETS
MANICHI DAILY NEWS 8/23 2K5, ?Debt load makes Americans vulnerable to rising 
rates, foreign currency imbalances?
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/business/archive/news/2005/08/23/20050823p2g00m0bu005000c.html

China?s revaluation will rebalance the economy and lead to modeling within 
the region
Xinhua Financial Network News, 6/26?(?China revaluation gives Asia 
currencies, global economy room to move?, lexisnexis.com, 6/26/2005)

FORTUNATELY, EVEN IF CHINA SAYS NO, THEY WILL CONFORM TO A MORE OPEN TRADING 
REGIME THAT WILL DECREASE THE TRADE DEFICIT
Venugopal 2K3?Look beyond yuan revaluation? 
http://www.blonnet.com/2003/11/05/stories/2003110500040800.htm



Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
CHINA HAS APPEASED THE US WITH A SMALL CHANGE IN THE YUAN, THIS HAS 
UNFORTUNATELY PUT A HOLD ON US DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC PRESSURE ?- A LARGER 
MOVE IS NEEDED FIELD 8/12K5, ?CAN CHINA SILENCE ITS CRITICS?? JOURNAL OF 
COMMERCE, LN
ADVANTAGE 1) ECONOMY the global economy is hurling towards collapse- asian 
economies are creating excess savings that must be saved in the united 
states, causing record low interest rates creating a consumer bubble that 
will inevitably burst. this makes the collapse of the dollar and the global 
economy inevitable.? SMALLWOOD 8/30
The global economy could face disaster if the West shrinks from 
protectionism Published: 30 August 2005. Christopher Smallwood is a director 
of Lombard Street Associates. 
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/comment/article309031.ece

THE US ECONOMY IS IN THE STAGE OF A ?VIRTUAL RECOVERY? ? THE MASSIVE TRADE 
DEFICIT WILL BURST THE HOUSING BUBBLE IN 2005 causing a collapse of the 
global economy Engdahl 04?Is a USA Economic Collapse Due in 2005? by F. 
William Engdahl www.globalresearch.ca???? 28 July 2004 The URL of this 
article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ENG407A.html "The whole world 
is hostage to the misconceived economic policies of a dollar standard out of 
control."

even if the u.s. trade deficit is benefical for the global economy current 
levels are unsustainable and guarantee global economic collapse Elliott 03 
Larry Elliott? Observer July 20, 2003 
http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/crisis/2003/0720fallout.htm
collapse of the global economy will spark wars throughout the globe and 
massacre of indigenous people Lopez, 1998?(bernardo v. business world 
september 10, 1998)

Advantage 2) Leadership - a decline in u.s. leadership would lead to global 
nuclear war Khalilzad 95
china will dump cheap still into the u.s. market, the weak value of the yuan 
will devastate u.s. producers Armstrong 2k4 U.S. steel industry on the 
rebound Exports help feed China's growing demand David Armstrong, Chronicle 
Staff Writer Tuesday, May 4, 2004
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/04/BUGPL6F3VU1.DTL&type=business

THIS MASSIVE PRICE DECREASE IS CRUSHING THE US DOMESTIC STEEL INDUSTRY 
Canada Press 2k5 
http://www3.cjad.com/content/cp_article.asp?id=/global_feeds/CanadianPress/BusinessNews/b081965A.htm

july?s revaluation failed to help u.s. steelmakers they face pressure from 
chinese imports Wallstreet Journal Online 7/22 Companies See Little Impact 
>From Costlier Yuan -- For Now. A WALL STREET JOURNAL NEWS ROUNDUP July 22, 
2005. 
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112198586411092697-kSMx8Id8tpSpMUyd1lpg11Iv_bo_20060817,00.html?mod=rss_free

us domestic STEEL INDUSTRY IS THE BACKBONE OF U.S. sea power Waller 2k1 J. 
Michael Waller Insight on the News,Sept 17, 2001 ?

MARITIME POWER IS THE CORNERSTONE OF HEGEMONY PRUITT 2K John ?The Influence 
of Sea Power in the 21st Century August
http://web.mit.edu/ssp/Publications/working_papers/wp_00-4.pdf

China?s low exchange rate hurts the US manufacturing, national security, and 
economy
Financial Times 2004 ?(?The Hero Turns Villain,? 10/01/05)

US MANUFACTURING SECTOR IS KEY TO TECHNOLOGICAL COMPETITIVENESS AND IS THE 
HEART OF THE US ECONOMY JASINOWSKI 2K3 MAY 1, ?MANUFACTURING IS IN CRISIS? 
president of the National Association of Manufacturers, 
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3720/is_5_84/ai_101575991

TECHNOLOGICAL COMPETITIVENESS IS KEY TO SUSTAINED US HEGEMONY Khalilzad 95




Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade _x_  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Michigan
Negative Team:

[C

Chinese Laogain/Forced Labor Aff
Global Economy (U.S. Manufacturing Sector)
U.S. Leadership (Human Rights Credibility)
Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Hence the plan?

The United States Federal Government will abrogate the Memorandum of 
Understanding on Forced Labor with China and will enact a ban on all 
categories of products that have been known to be produced with forced 
labor.  Enforcement through normal means.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

First, The RETL lacks popular support?the US can uniquely influence this 
human rights practice in China
Posner, Exec Dir ? Human Rights First, 1999
(Michael, Testimony before the House Committee on International Relations, 
Jan 20,
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/archives/arc_refs/feature/china/chinatest012099.htm)
Second, Economic pressure is key to ending forced labor in China
Smith, Chair Subcommittee on Int?l Ops & Human Rights, 1997
(Chrostopher H., ?Forced Labor in China-Hearing Before the Subcommittee on 
Int?l Ops & Human Rights?, May 
22,http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa45502.000/hfa45502_0.HTM)

And, a ban on categories of goods produced with forced labor is substantial 
pressure on the Chinese government to end forced labor?this solves loopholes 
in the MOU and SOC and gives the US leverage to influence China?s labor 
practices
Fiedler, Prez of FAST Division of AFL-CIO & Dir Laogai Inst, 6-22-05 
(Jeffrey L., ?Forced Labor in China?, 
http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/Fiedler.php)
And, The US is key?only US led pressure on Chinese human rights can change 
Chinese human rights practices
Nathan, Prof & Chair Pol Sci @ Colombia, 1997
(?Andrew J., ?China?s Transition?, 
http://www.ciaonet.org/book/nathan/Nathan16.html)And, pressure is 
key?Engagement only increases Chinese manufacturing abuses?won?t lead to 
improvements in labor repressive practices Athreya, Dep Dir ? Int?l Labor 
Rights Fund, 1999  (Bama, ?US-China Relations 1989-1999: Ten Years of 
Constructive Engagement?? 
http://www.laborrights.org/projects/china/paper99.html)
Finally, the alternative to unchecked RETL, independent judicial review, 
solves for the human rights abuses of RETLBejesky, Adj Prof Pol Sci @ Alma 
College, 2004 (Robert, ?Falun Gong & Re-Education Through Labor? 17 Colum. 
J. Asian L. 147, Spring)
Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
Advantage 1?The Global Economy
First, the US manufacturing sector is screwed now
AFL-CIO, 3-16-04
(?Section 301 Petition before the Office of the US Trade Representative?,
http://www.workinglife.org/FOL/pdf/China--AFL%20301%20petition.pdf)
Second, RETL kills US manufacturing jobs
AFL-CIO, 3-16-04
(?Section 301 Petition before the Office of the US Trade Representative?,
http://www.workinglife.org/FOL/pdf/China--AFL%20301%20petition.pdf)

LAOJIAO 	1AC
And, the manufacturing sector key to the US economy
M2 Presswire, 5-5-05
And, here?s our reverse causal evidence?ending Chinese repressive labor 
practices curtails the loss of US jobs
AFL-CIO, 3-16-04
(?Section 301 Petition before the Office of the US Trade Representative?,
http://www.workinglife.org/FOL/pdf/China--AFL%20301%20petition.pdf)

LAOJIAO 	1AC
Independent of the US economy, Chinese forced labor leads to a shock to 
global manufacturing sector
AFL-CIO, 3-16-04
(?Section 301 Petition before the Office of the US Trade Representative?,
http://www.workinglife.org/FOL/pdf/China--AFL%20301%20petition.pdf)
Finally, Economic decline spurs regional nuclear conflict and extinction
[Lewis; 98; the coming age of scarcity; p. 56]



Advantage 2?US Leadership
First, Failure of US to pressure China on human rights creates a double 
standard in US human rights promotion
Financial Times, 1-22-05
Double standards destroy American credibility internationally?consistent 
human rights promotion is the SUREST WAY to enhance US leadership
Turner, Prof Behav & Soc Sci @ U Montevallo, 2003
(Scott, ?The Dilemma of Double Standards in U.S. Human Rights Policy?,
PEACE & CHANGE, Vol. 28, No. 4, October)

And, Forced labor is the litmus test of Chinese human rights practices
Human Rights Watch, 1992
(?China and Tibet?, http://www.hrw.org/reports/1992/WR92/ASW-05.htm)
And, in the wake of September 11th, commitment to human rights promotion is 
key to US leadership
Koh, Prof Int?l Law @ Yale, 2002
(Harold Hongju, ?A United States Human Rights Policy
for the 21st Century,? 46 St. Louis L.J. 293, Spring,)
Pressuring China on prison labor by banning categories of products restores 
US human rights credibility
Jendrzejczyk, Wash Dir of Human Rights Watch-Asia, 1995
(Mike, ?Opportunity on Human Rights?, 
http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/1995/6/3_3.html)


US leadership key to prevent global nuclear war baby (eat this shit 
Khalilzad)
Dole, Former Senate Majority Leader, 1995
(Bob, ?Shaping America?s Global Future?, Foreign Policy v98, Spring)















Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation _x_ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Macalester
Negative Team:

[C



Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

THE UNITED STATES FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD INCREASE DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC 
PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE?S REPUBLIC OF CHINA BY: (1) UNILATERALLY DECLARING 
THAT IT WILL NOT BE THE FIRST OF THE TWO STATES TO FLIGHT TEST OR DEPLOY 
SPACE WEAPONS; (2) DECLARING ITS SUPPORT FOR A TREATY PROHIBITING THE 
DEPLOYMENT OR TESTING OF SPACE WEAPONS THAT IS ENFORCEABLE VIA SANCTIONS; 
AND (3) MAKING CHINESE ACCESS TO U.S. SATELLITE DATA AND TECHNOLOGY 
CONTINGENT ON THE NON-TESTING AND DEPLOYMENT OF SPACE WEAPONS. FUNDING AND 
ENFORCEMENT ARE GUARANTEED.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

OBSERVATION ONE: SOLVENCYH
A: U.S. WEAPONIZATION DRIVE FORCING CHINA INTO A SPACE ARMS RACE, RISKING 
NUCLEAR ESCALATION?BETTER TO MOVE TOWARDS MUTUAL ARMS CONTROL
James Carroll, The Boston Globe, 10/28/03

B: UNILATERAL US COMMITMENT AGAINST DEVELOPMENT AND DEPLOYMENT OF SPACE 
WEAPONS PARALLEL WITH A TREATY CREATES AGGRESSIVE GLOBAL REGIME AGAINST 
THEIR CREATION, PROTECTING COMMERICAL AND SCIENTIFIC SPACE USE
Bruce Deblois et al., International Security, Fall 2004

C: THE U.S. SHOULD USE ACCESS TO SATELLITE DATA AND SATELLITE TECHNOLOGY TO 
LEVERAGE CHINESE SPACE COOPERATION AND NON-TESTING OF ASATs
Jeffrey Lewis, AD ASTRA, Spring 2005

D: U.S. RESTRAINT CHECKS WEAPONIZATION?ITS LEADERHIP IS KEY
Michael Krepon, Space Assurance or Space Dominance, 2003, p. 88-89.

E: U.S./CHINA DISAGREEMENTS BLOCK ARMS CONTROL NOW?OTHER STATES WON MOVE 
UNLESS THE U.S. DOES
James Clay Moltz, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, J/F 2003.




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

ADVANTAGE ONE: LEADERSHIP
A: WEAPONIZATION ERODES LEADERSHIP FOR TWO REASONS: SYMMETRIC AND ASSYMETRIC 
BALANCING
Theresa Hitchens, Arms Control Today, September 2001.

B: WEAPONIZATION UNDERMINES COMMERCIAL SPACE, WHICH:
1. UNDERMINES ECONOMY
2. ERODES MILITARY AND ECONOMIC POWER
Theresa Hitchens, ?Weapons in Space: Silver Bullet or Russian Roulette?? CDI 
4/18/02 www.cdi.org/missile-defense/spaceweapons.cfm

C: DOMINANCE STRATEGY UNDERMINES LEADERSHIP: 1. RESOURCE TRADEOFF; 2. 
UNDERMINES PEACEKEEPING; 3. PREVENTS SOLVING ROOT CAUSES OF WAR; 4. 
ALIENATES ALLIES/RISKING PROLIF
Nader Elhefnawy, PARAMETERS, Spring 2003, pp. 124-132.


D: WEAPONIZATION ERODES HEGEMONY: [6 reasons]
Karl P. Mueller, 5/8/02 ?Totem and Taboo? online

E: SPACE WEAPONIZATION KILLS MILITARY MODERNIZATIONS ACROSS THE BOARD 
BECAUSE OF FUNDING TRADEOFFS
David W. Zeigler, Beyond the Paths of Heaven, September 1999, ed. B. 
Deblois, online

F: ECONOMIC STRENGTH IS THE CORNERSTONE OF AMERICAN LEADERSHIP
Zbigniew Brzezinski, The Grand Chessboard, 1997

G: WEAPONIZATION HURTS LEADERSHIP: FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY
Elhefnawy, above

H: GROUND VULNERABILITIES AND COUNTERMEASURES NULLIFY ANY U.S. SPACE 
ADVANTAGE
Elhefnawy, above

I: TERRESTRIAL WEAPONS ARE BETTER IN EVERY RESPECT
Deblois, IEEE Spectrum, March 2005, ?Star Crossed? online

J: FINALLY, COLLAPSE OF U.S. LEADERSHIP SPARKS GLOBAL POWER WARS THROUGHOUT 
EUROPE, ASIA AND THE MIDDLE EAST, ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, AND NUCLEAR PROLIF AND 
WAR
Khalilzad, WQ Spring 1995

ADVANTAGE TWO: WAR
A: SPACE WEAPONIZATION WILL SPUR AN ARMS RACE THAT FOSTERS HAIR-TRIGGER 
STATUS, FIRST STRIKES AND ACCIDENTAL WARS THAT UNDERMINES GLOBAL COMMERCE, 
UNDERMINE U.S. HEGEMONY, POISONS GREAT POWER RELATIONS, AND RISKS NUCLEAR 
ESCALATION
Michael Krepon & Michale Heller, Disarmament Diplomacy, May/June 2004, 
online

B:  STATUS QUO SPACE POLICY MUCH MORE STABLE ? MOVE TO MILITARIZE RISKS 
SPACE-M.A.D. AND TOTAL ANNIHILATION ? ENSURES FIRST STRIKE THROUGH 
DETERRENCE FAILURES FOR THREE REASONS [3 REASONS]:
Bruce M. Deblois, AIRPOWER JOURNAL, 1998, pp. 41-57.

C:  THE IMPACT OF THESE WARS IS OMNICIDE
Arbatov & Mayorski, Space Weapons and International Security, 1987.

ADVANTAGE THREE: GLOBAL DOOM
A: STRATEGIC INSTABILITY
1.
SPACE WEAPONIZATION BAD: (1) RUSSIAN HAIR TRIGGER; (2) CHINA/INDIA/PAKSITAN 
NUCLEAR INSTABILITY; (3) ALIENATES ALLIES; (4) UNDERMINES GLOBAL 
NONPROLIFERATION
Michael Krepon, Arms Control Today, November 2004.

2. PROLIF SPARKS MASSIVE NUCLEAR WARS
Victor Utgoff, Survival, Summer 2002, p. 90

3. SOUTH ASIAN NUCLEAR WAR RISKs EXTINCTION
Helen Caldicott, The New Nuclear Danger, 2002, p. xii.

B. NUKES IN SPACE
1. SPACE MILITARIZATION CALLS FOR NUCLEAR POWER
Karl Grossman, ?Keep Space for Peace,? 2000, online.

2. NUCLEAR POWER IN SPACE RISKS PLANETARY EXTINCTION
Bruce K. Gagnon, 1999, online ?The Pentagon, through the U.S. Space command? 
begin now?

C: OZONE
1. LAUNCHES FOR WEAPONIZATION GUTS THE OZONE LAYER
Caldicott, above

2. OZONE LOSS RISKS LOSS OF ALL LIFE
Peter Bunyard, The Breakdown of Climate 1999, p. 94.

D: SOCIAL JUSTICE
1. ENDING SPACE MIL FREES UP ENOUGH MONEY TO END WORLD HUNGER, GENDER 
MODIFIED
Robert Bowman, Star Wars?A Defense Insider?s Case Against SDI, 1986

2. NEW MILITARY SPENDING TRADES OFF WITH SOCIAL PROGRAMS AND CAUSES NEW ARMS 
RACES, RISKING NUCLEAR ESCALATION
J.J. Joseph, Search for Sanity, 1984

E: PLAN LEADS TO A CONSCIOUSNESS THAT ENDS MOST WARS
I.C.I.S., ?Transforming the War Industry Into a World Cooperative Space 
Industry,? January 2003, online






Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade _x_  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Wayne St. pN
Negative Team:

[C

Advantage one: Nationalism
Advantage two: AIDS


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Through all necessary means the U.S. Federal Government will substantially 
increase diplomatic and economic pressure on the P.R.C by diplomatically 
demanding that the P.R.C. cease its surveillance and censorship of the 
Internet and designating Internet censorship and monitoring systems as 
police equipment for the purposes of the Export Administration Regulations.  
We reserve the right to clarify intent.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

First, Increasing Diplomatic and Economic pressure on the PRC to deregulate 
the Internet will be successful.  Although China may oppose deregulation, 
increasing US export controls on IT technologies will crush China?s ability 
to control the Internet.
Tkacik 2004.   (John, Senior Research Fellow in Asian Studies at The 
Heritage Foundation with a focus on U.S. policies toward China.   October 8. 
  heritage.org)
"A democratic China is indeed ?in the most vital interest of the United 
States,? and fostering an environment in China conducive to the free 
expression of ideas should be a primary objective"... "There should be 
renewed efforts to create an information network that would permit Web 
surfers in China to access accurate news beyond China?s Great Firewall."
And Only US action can solve ? US technology is key to sustaining the PRC?s 
ability to control the Internet.
Tkacik 2004.   (John, Senior Research Fellow in Asian Studies at The 
Heritage Foundation with a focus on U.S. policies toward China.   October 8. 
  heritage.org)
"Without innovations in technology provided to China by Western telecoms, 
networking, Internet portal, and software firms, the Chinese government 
could not have gained its current stranglehold over Internet information." 
... "China?s electronic communications are heavily censored and are 
increasingly used as an instrument for surveillance, repression, and 
propaganda"

Next: Opening up the Internet and increasing access to HIV information can 
prevent an AIDS epidemic in China
UN Theme Group on HIV/AIDS in China, 2002 (HIV/AIDS: China's Titanic Peril, 
June.  www.youandaids.org)
?
"Better access to and greater variation of information sources can 
empowerindividuals and groups to protect themselves and others from HIV" ... 
"Another example of the lack of good governance is the fact that protective 
and useful laws and regulations exist at the national level, but often fail 
to be implemented at the provincial and local levels."
And, Uncensored Internet Access is key to develop a civil society in China 
to combat Nationalism
Tkacik 2004.   (John, Senior Research Fellow in Asian Studies at The 
Heritage Foundation with a focus on U.S. policies toward China.   October 8. 
  heritage.org)
"If the U.S. truly believes that a peaceful China evolving along democratic 
lines is in America?s interest" ... "Internet technologies have enabled 
China?s Big Brother to keep a close eye on its citizens and to identify and 
arrest those who spread democratic ideals."
Finally, We must act now to prevent China from consolidating its control 
over the Internet by developing its own network ? any delay dooms any chance 
of solvency.
MacKinnon 2005.   (Rebecca, Research Fellow at Harvard Law?s center for 
internet and society.  Yale Global.  June 28.  yaleglobal.yale.edu)

"China is clearly not sitting on its current success. It has undertaken a 
massive internet infrastructure upgrade with a US$100 million project called 
ChinaNet Next Carrying Network, or CN2." ... "Thus, experts predict the new 
network will enable the Chinese government to control and monitor online 
speech even more tightly."

Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
Advantages and Solvency (Get tags and Full citations and starting and end of 
each card):

Advantage one: Nationalism

1. The PRC?s manipulation of information from the Internet is substantially 
increasing nationalism in China.
         Reporters without Borders 2004.   (?Internet Under Surveilance?.  
May.  RSF.org)

"The government also uses the Internet to promote its position on sensitive 
issues."... "But, when well-publicised, they suffice to foster fear and 
silence"


2. Chinese Cyber-Nationalism is increasingly targeting Japan.  This 
sentiment will culminate in policies that destroy Sino-Japanese relations
Mooney 2005.  (Paul, freelance Journalist reporting on China for 15 years.  
April 4.  yaleglobal.yale.org)
"Meanwhile, a new generation of Chinese is taking pride in China's growing 
international status, and they're itching to stand up against 
Japan."..."Once you get on, it can be very hard to get off."
3. Strong Sino-Japanese relations are key to prevent multiple scenarios for 
war
Rozman 2003.  (Gilbert, Musgrave Prof of Sociology at Princeton.  
Sino-Japanese Relations.  Asia Program Special Repot.  N. 113.  July, p 8)

"Americans have reason to regard Sino-Japanese relations as the most 
important great power relationship not centering on the United States,"... 
"Miscalculations in managing triangular relations with Beijing and Tokyo 
could jeopardize one or more of these goals."



Advantage two: AIDS

1. Chinese Internet censorship is hindering effective AIDS awareness and 
prevention information from being accessed.
AVERT September 2005  (International HIV and AIDS charity based in the UK, 
with the aim of Averting HIV and AIDS worldwide. Downloaded 9-11 
http://www.avert.org/about.htm )

"There is still a massive need in China for public HIV/AIDS 
education"..."But despite these announcements it is unclear how much 
HIV/AIDS prevention is actually taking place in schools."

2. China is on the brink of a surging AIDs epidemic ? failure to act ensure 
millions of new AIDS cases and thousands of deaths every year.
Hunter 2005.  (Susan.  AIDS in Asia: A continent in Peril.  Palgrave 
Macmillan publishers.  New York 2005)

"Severe Epidemics in Asia are not only likely to occur; they are likely to 
occur much quicker than Eberstadt forecasts"..."The horizon of Eberstadt's 
grim forecasts might be a lot closer than we think."

3. A massive surge in AIDS cases in China will increase the global spread of 
AIDS
	Hunter 2005.  (Susan.  AIDS in Asia: A continent in Peril.  Palgrave 
Macmillan publishers.  New York 2005)

"In a region as big and populous as Asia, epidemics vary widely between and 
within national borders and also change over time" ... "Not only was 
contaminated blood used in China, it was also shipped abroad to neighboring 
countries for transfusions and development of other biologic producers."

4. This will result in extinction
	Jakarta Post 2000.  ("Will Annan finally put out Africa's fires?"  March 6. 
  Lexis)

"Although the UN and the Security Council cannot solve all African problems, 
the AIDS challenge is a fundamental one in that it threatens to wipe out 
man."...  "Sure as death, Africa's time has run out, signaling the beginning 
of the end of the black race and maybe the human race."


Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: NIU PW
Negative Team:

[C



Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Plan: The USFG should diplomatically and economically substantially  
increase pressure on the People?s Republic of China by revoking ?Normal 
Trade Relations? status until the People?s Republic of China eliminates 
their one child policy.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

Observation 3: Solvency

Revoking ?Normal Trade Relations? for China by US can solve human rights.
William Saunders ?Economic Sanctions Should Be Imposed on China.? Opposing 
Viewpoints: China. Ed. James D.s Torr. San Diego: Greenhaven Press, 2001. 
August 2004. 7 September 2005. www.enotes.com/china-article/41914

The only way to improve human rights in China is through US economic 
pressure
Jingsheng Transcript Voa interview 1997.
www.usembassy-isreal.org.il/publish/press/global/archieve/1997/december/gi11215.htm

The Chinese government caves to US pressure on human rights- and it will 
continue to do in the future
Weatherly, 1997.The Discourse of Human Rights in China pg 156-7

One child policy has achieved its goals; now it produces more harm then good 
and its needs to be lifted to eliminate these harms.
Alicia Burns, Oct 2004. ?China?s One Child Policy? Digital Freedom Network.

Rights now is the key time for China to eliminate ?one child?: the longer 
they wait the worse the long term consequences will be.
Goto, Shihoko, UPI Senior Business Correspondent, April, 2005.
www.washtimes .com/upi-breaking/20050407-114720-7185r.htm

China?s one child policy is unnecessary.
Harry Wu.  ?China?s One Child Policy Violates Human Rights? Opposing 
Viewpoints: China Ed. James D. Torr. San Diego: Greenhaven Press 2001. 
August 2004. 7 September 2005.  www.enotes.com/china-article/41912




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

Observation 1: Inherency
The United States has an ?enormous responsibility to ensure that China is 
held accountable for its abusive practices against citizens.? Lately the US 
has done nothing.
T. Kumar, Advocacy director for Asia & Pacific Amnesty International USA, 
December 2004.  Congressional Quarterly, Capital Hill Hearing Testimony, 
House International Relations Committee.

Observation 2: China?s one child policy
China?s desire to control its population ?at any cost to the Chinese people 
is as strong and dangerous as ever.?
Marciano, Melanie, United Press International, December 2004
www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20041215-045058-9603r.htm

Adv. 1
Human rights violations result from China?s birth control policy.
T. Kumar, Advocacy director for Asia & Pacific Amnesty International USA, 
December 2004.  Congressional Quarterly, Capital Hill Hearing Testimony, 
House International Relations Committee.

China?s one child policy has led to a serious health risk for Chinese women: 
56 percent of the world?s female suicides occur in China.
Baillot, Marion.  The Washington Times WORLD; BRIEFING/ASIA-PACIFIC; pg. A17 
December 24, 2004

Forcing women to have abortions and enforcing China?s one child is a ?crime 
against humanity.?
Schmitz, Chistin, CanWest News Service, February 2005.
The Gazette NEWS pg A13 February 16, 2005

Rights violations must be avoided at all costs.
Ronald Dworkin, NYU School of Law, 1977. Taking Rights Seriously

Adv. 2
China?s one child policy has created a population imbalance that will 
increase violent crime and trafficking
Baillot, Marion.  The Washington Times WORLD; BRIEFING/ASIA-PACIFIC; pg. A17 
December 24, 2004

-Trafficking-
Trafficking affects a large number of Chinese women
Ping Zhuang, Shandong University, China, 1998
Social Policy Research Unit, The Traffic for Marriage with Women in China
www.uregina.ca/spr/pdfs/occasional_paper_9.pdf
Trafficking is cruel and inhumane
Ping Zhuang, Shandong University, China, 1998
Social Policy Research Unit, The Traffic for Marriage with Women in China
www.uregina.ca/spr/pdfs/occasional_paper_9.pdf

Trafficking threatens the health and safety as a whole and impedes social 
and economic development.
Ping Zhuang, Shandong University, China, 1998
Social Policy Research Unit, The Traffic for Marriage with Women in China
www.uregina.ca/spr/pdfs/occasional_paper_9.pdf
-Political violence and upheaval-
Chinas population imbalance will lead to an increase in crime and violence
Texas A & M Research and News archieves, September 2004
www.tamu.edu/tamunews/News/stories/05/082005news-125.htm
This uncontrollable violence leads to political upheaval and threatens world 
peace and stability.
MIT Press May 2004.
Review of Bare Branches by Valerie Hudson and Andrea M. Den Boer;
http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?tid=9963&ttype=2

Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade _x_  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Wayne State MS
Negative Team:

[C

U.S. Economic Collapse (Manufacturing Industry)
Chinese Economic Collapse (Yuan)

Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Plan- Through all necessary means the USFG will substantially increase
diplomatic and economic pressure on the People's Republic of China by
passing S. 295. We reserve the right to clarify.

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

Ob 2-
Plan allows time for China to adjust.
Charles Schumer July 21, 2005 CQ Transcripts
"We never expected....wait to see."

The US needs to act now, the more dependent we become on China the less
leverage we will have.
BBC Worldwide Monitoring August 8, 2005
"The US is facing....from East Asia."




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
Ob 1
Protectionist pressure on China will ease as the Yuan's revaluation has 
taken the wind out of the Schumer/Graham proposition.
Xinhua Financial Network News July 25, 2005 "Trade-related anger....at the 
end of the year."

The Chinese central bank has no intentions to further revalue the Yuan. 
AFX-Asia August 2, 2005
"The central bank....under a news blackout."

China won't revalue. The Independent July 28, 2005 "China's central 
bank....bet on teh yuan's appreciation."

Advantage 1
lack of a floating Yuan allows the Chinese to cheat which destroys the US 
manufacturing industry.
Newsday July 5, 2005 "Some manufacturers are...folding to stay."

Manufacturing is key to the US economy.
US Department of Commerece January 2004 
www.commerce.gov/DOC_MFG_Report_Complete.pdf "American manufacturers 
are....continued to rise significantly."

US economic decline causes global economic downfall.
Lawerence Summers July/August 2004 Foreign Policy ?As treasury 
secretary....should preoccupy us."

Economic collapse causes global nuclear war.
Chris Lewis 1998 The Coming Age of Scarcity pg.56 "Most critics would 
argue....pale in comparison."

Further revaluation is necessary to save manufacturing.
Capitol Hill Press Release July 21, 2005 'HOuse Samll Business 
Committee....playing field is near."

Advantage 2-
Lack of revaluation will cause Chinese economic collapse.
The Straits Times August 11, 2005 "Asked about China's...of liquidity in 
China."

China's economy is key to the global economy.
BBC Monitoring International Reports July 31, 2005 "The Chinese 
economy....to perform better."

Economic collapse causes extinction.
Bearden 2000 www.seaspower.com/EnergyCrisis-bearden.htm "History bears 
out....for many decades."

The rise of the Yuan will help Chinese industries in the long term.
Asia Pulse August 5, 2005
"Though yuan rise....in the long run."

Currency reform will increase Chinese and global growth.
AFX-Asia August 2, 2005 "But the NDRC....to world growth."

Chinese textile industry will benefit from an increased Yuan.
The Standard July 23, 2005 "many such companies....spekesman Wang Donghua."

Chinese steel makers will benefit from falling prices as the Yuan's value
rises. The Standard July 23, 2005 "Some companies even....reap similar 
gains."




Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Wayne State BR
Negative Team:

[C

OBSERVATION TWO - CHINESE OIL INVESTMENT PRODUCES DEVESTATING CONSEQUENCES
IN SUDAN.
SUBPOINT A - ETHNIC CLEANSING
SUBPOINT B - REGIONAL WAR


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

[ Plan In Development ? we hear ]

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]


OBSERVATION THREE: U.S. DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE?S
REPUBLIC OF CHINA WILL ALLEVIATE CONFLICT IN SUDAN. ?FIRST, MARKET SANCTIONS
WILL COERCE CHINA INTO A COOPERATIVE STANCE ON SUDAN, GOING FROM AN
OBSTRUNCTIONIST COMPETITOR INTO A PARTNER FOR PEACE. ?REEVES, AGAIN, IN 2000
[Eric, December 20,
http://www.sudanreeves.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=305&page=1,
batto]
Moreover, all revenues from the ... difficulties which you clearly cannot
afford!"

SECOND, CAPITAL MARKET SANCTIONS ARE A SIGNIFICANT SOURCE OF DIPLOMATIC AND
ECONOMIC PRESSURE. ?CHINA WILL SUCCUMB TO THE DIPLOMATIC PRESSURE OF THE
PLAN BECAUSE IT CAN?T AFFORD THE ECONOMIC PRESSURE WE APPLY. ?THIS IS THE
REPORT TO CONGRESS OF THE U.S. - CHINA SECURITY REVIEW COMMISSION, IN 2002
[July, http://www.uscc.gov/researchpapers/2000_2003/reports/ch6_02.htm,
batto]
The U.S. capital markets have become ... development of a vibrant Chinese
private sector.

THIRD, CHINA WILL SUCCESSFULLY PRESSURE SUDAN INTO A COOPERATIVE STANCE IN
PEACE TALKS. ?ADDITIONALLY, THE TAGETED NATURE OF SANCTIONS AVOIDS ALL
SANCITONS BAD TURNS. ?REEVES, AGAIN, IN 2001;
[Eric, March 28, testimony before the House Committee on International
Relations,
http://www.sudanreeves.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=103&page=1,
batto]
Why capital market sanctions? And why for ... to be free of complicity 
inthat destruction?

EVEN IF CHINA DOESN?T RESPOND, THE PLAN IS NECESSARY TO STOP U.S. COMPLICITY
IN GENOCIDE AND INCREASE GLOBAL TRANPARENCY TO COUNTER OPPRESSIVE REGIMES
WORLDWIDE. ?FRANK GAFFNEY JR., THE HEAD OF THE CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY,
IN 2001; [Frank J., ?Market transparency works?, July 3,
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/gaffney070301.asp, batto]
If the only result of these developments ... they must make from now on.

FINALLY, SUDAN IS VERY WARY OF THE LOSS OF CHINA AS A SHIELD FROM
INTERNATIONAL PRESSURE. ?OUR DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC PRESSURE ON CHINA IS
ENOUGH TO CONVINCE SUDAN THAT IT MUST MAKE A FULL COMMITMENT TO PEACE
ACCORDS. ?THE FINANCIAL TIMES CONCLUDES THE SIMPLICITY OF OUR PLAN IN 2005
?[Andrew England, ?Beijing and Sudan reap benefits from marriage of
convenience?, March 22, L/N, batto]
It was only when the government looked east ... things could change," one
diplomat says.


Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

OBSERVATION ONE: ?THE WORLD STANDS IMPOTENT AS CONFLICT RAGES THROUGH SUDAN.
?FIRST, CURRENT APPROACHES ARE FAILING, AS MISDIRECTED PRESSURE IN THE U.N.
IS BLOCKED BY CHINA. ?THE INDEPENDENT NOTES IN 2004; ? ?[Johann Hari,
November 19, L/N, batto]
The US is lobbying hard for ... We can do the same today.

SECOND, THE U.S. HAS RESIGNED NOT TO PRESSURE CHINA, NEWSWEEK IN 2004
[Stephen Galen, December 20, ?Yet another great game?, L/N, batto]
The Sino-Sudanese ties are complicating ... is unlikely to push Beijing on
Sudan.

THIRD, DESPITE RECENT PEACE AGREEMENTS IN THE NORTH-SOUTH CONFLICT, SUDAN
BALKS AT THE NOTION OF DE-ESCALATION AND STILL SUPPORTS VIOLENT MILITIAS.
THE MILWAUKEE JOURNAL-SENTINEL IN 2005; ? [August 3, L/N, batto]
Last month, on a visit to Sudan in east Africa ... it is still happening.

OBSERVATION TWO - CHINESE OIL INVESTMENT PRODUCES DEVESTATING CONSEQUENCES
IN SUDAN.
SUBPOINT A - ETHNIC CLEANSING. ?FIRST, NOTE, CHINESE OIL FIRMS ARE ENGAGED
IN A NEFARIOUS TRADE OF OIL FOR WEAPONS WITH THE NORTHERN SUDAN REGIME.
THESE WEAPONS ARE USED TO CARRY OUT A PROCESS OF ?SLOW-MOTION ETHNIC
CLEANSING?. ?REEVES, A PROFESSOR AT SMITH COLLEGE WHO HAS BEEN RESEARCHING
SUDAN FOR THE PAST SEVEN YEARS, NOTES IN 2004;
[Eric, The Nation, June 4,
http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20010604&s=reeves, batto]
Multinational extraction ventures in Africa ... China's premier offshore oil
source.

TWO, THIS PRESENT SITUATION REPRESENTS GENOCIDE, THE COLD AND CALCULATED
SLAUGHTER OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF HUMAN BEINGS. ?HALL, A PROFESSOR AND
FOUNDING COORDINATOR OF GLOBALIZATION STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
LETHBRIDGE, WARNS IN 2004;
[Anthony J., April 7,
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20040407120830209/print]
Another terrible storm of genocidal terror ... concentration camps within
southern Sudan.

THREE, THE TRAGEDY AND SUFFERING IN REFUGEE CAMPS HAS WORSENED THIS SUMMER,
AS DE CAPUA REPORTS IN 2005
DE CAPUA, August 25, 2005 [Joe, Voice of America, US Fed News, L/N, batto]
An official of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum says ... we're not gonna
let this happen again.

FOUR, AMERICAN CITIZENS MUST REJECT THIS GREAT EVIL ABOVE ALL ELSE. ?FAILURE
TO DO SO ASSURES THE LOSS OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT AND THE DESTRUCTION OF ALL
LIFE ON EARTH
KETELS, associate professor of English at Temple University, 1996
[Violet B., The Annals of The American Academy of Political Science,
November, L/N]A LESSON FOR INTELLECTUALS ?Even though ... spirit, human 
responsibility, human reason.



SUBPOINT B - REGIONAL WAR. ?FIRST, THE SUDAN CONFLICT RISK IS SPILLING OVER
INTO CHAD, THE NEW YORKER IN 2004 WARNS; ?[June 22, L/N]
Backed by the Sudanese government, Janjaweed ... reportedly clashed with
Janjaweed militias.

TWO, THIS CONFLICT WILL ESCALTE INTO REGIONAL WARFARE, THE ECONOMIC AND
SOCIAL COUNCIL IN 2004; [Report of the United Nations High Commissioner for
Human Rights and Follow-Up to the World Conference on Human Rights, May 7,
p.3]
Finally, it was clear to the mission that the ... janjaweed of pursuing
Sudanese refugees into Chad.

THIS IS THE MOST LIKELY SCENARIO FOR SUPER-POWER NUCLEAR EXCHANGE, DEUTSCH,
A PhD IN ECONOMICS FROM GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY IN 2002; ?[Jeffrey, Rapid
Tiger Newsletter, 2(9), November 18,
http://www.rabidtigers.com/rtn/newsletterv2n9.html]
The Rabid Tiger Project believes that ... attract outside involvement very
quickly.







Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation _x_ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: WIU OH
Negative Team:

[C


Adv 1 ? Proliferation
Adv. 2 - Asian Peace

Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Plan:  The United Stated Federal Government should increase diplomatic and 
economic pressure on the People?s Republic of China to pressure the 
Democratic People?s Republic of Korea on dismantling its nuclear weapons 
program.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

Ob 2 ? Solvency
___China will pressure North Korea if the US pushes them
Adam Garfinkle, speechwriter to the Secretary of State, former Editor of The 
National Interest, former adjunct Professorial Lecturer in American Foreign 
Policy at the School for Advanced International Studies, January 27, 2003, 
The National Review, Vol. 55, Iss. 1, ?Checking Kim,? p. InfoTrac OneFile
China has in? a brief preface.

___As chief mediator, China has the power to change the economic and 
diplomatic process.
Wu ?05 (Anne Wu, fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International 
Affairs at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. She previously worked for 
China's Foreign Ministry, Washington Quarterly, Spring 2005, 
http://www.twq.com/05spring/docs/05spring_wu.pdf) ASH
In The Art? existence and subsistence

___Your pressure turns are non-unique ? the US will go to the UN if we don?t 
go to China first
Kim and Ueno ?05	(Jack Kim, EMS Program Director. Aaron Medical Sciences, 
				TeruakiUeno,  
http://za.today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-08-03T110200Z_01_ALL323728_RTRIDST_0_OZATP-KOREA-NORTH-	20050803.XML, 
August 3, 2005) ASH
Failure in Beijing? tantamount to war

___China and the US have the ability to cooperatively work with each other 
over North Korea
Hechigan 05 (Nina Hachigan, director of the Center for Asia Pacific Policy 
at the nonprofit RAND corporation, Christian Scinece Monitor, 
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0217/p09s01-coop.html,  February 17 2005)
Economic sanctions against?Mutual security concern

___China will cooperate with the US to avoid political and economic 
consequences from the US.
Wu ?05
(Anne Wu, fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs 
at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. She previously worked for China's 
Foreign Ministry, Washington Quarterly, Spring 2005, 
http://www.twq.com/05spring/docs/05spring_wu.pdf)
Having improved its? support and security.

___China succumbed to US political pressure and withdrew its bid for Unocal.

Teather ?05
(David Teather, Guardian staff writer, 
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1455783/posts, August 3, 2005)
The Chinese energy? to national security.

___Beijing must account publicly for its actions or it will not change its 
North Korean policy
Kurlantzick, 05
Joshua Kurlantzick. ?Red Herring.? The New Republic. June 6, 2005: p. 12.
But there are?least, it is.

___China is key to economic sanctions against North Korea

Fairclough and Hiebert, 05
Gordon Fairclough and Murray Hiebert. ?Nuclear Talks Aim to Plumb 
Pyongyang?s Position.? Asian Wall Street Journal. July 22, 2005: p. A3.
Analysts said North? U.S. can take.

___China pressure only way to stop NK nuclearizing
Mead, 05
Walter Russell Mead. ?Should Nukes Bloom in Asia.?  The Nautilus Institute 
for Security and Sustainable Development. Northeast Asia Peace and Security 
Project. Policy Forum Online 05-52A: June 23rd, 2005
The idea ? not? for a deal.

___Economic Sanctions are key to stopping the North Korean nuclear program. 
These sanctions will also undermine Kim?s hold on power
Sanger, 05
David E. Sanger. ?U.S. is shaping plan to pressure North Koreans.? The New 
York Times. February 14, 2005: p.A1.
''We think they? is anyone's guess.''




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

Ob 1- Inherency
___China refuses to increase pressure on North Korea, making the elimination 
of their nuclear program unlikely
David J. Lynch. ?China not likely to use leverage on N. Korea ; Pressure 
expected to remain verbal only.? USA TODAY. p.A8; February 15, 2005.
Despite rising irritation? development of nuclear weapons

___Bush won?t put economic pressure on China over North Korea now
Brad Sherman, California congressman and member of subcommittee on 
international affaris. ?Sherman Blasts President Bush?s Comments on Nuclear 
Proliferation.? August 11, 2004. 
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ca27_sherman/pr_040811.html
Washington, D.C. ? Today? people,? added Sherman.

Adv 1 ? Proliferation
___North Korea is a test case for global proliferation ? an unchecked 
nuclear Korea causes Japanese rearm, China-Taiwan war, and terrorism
Graham Allison, professor of government and Director of the Belfer Center 
for Science and International Affairs at Harvard?s Kennedy School of 
Government, January/February 2004, Foreign Affairs, Vol. 83, Iss. 1, p. 
infotrac
The test case? for their negligence.

___Japanese rearmament causes India-Pakistan war
Business Week, January 20, 2003, ?Why Japan Just Might Build Nukes,? No. 
3816, p. 44
If Japan could? more perilous future.

___South Asian conflict ensures nuclear winter
Ghulam Nabi Fai, executive director of the Kashmiri American Council, July 
8, 2001, The Washington Times, ?The most dangerous place,? p. B4
The most dangerous? Cut-off Convention.

___China-Taiwan war causes global nuclear war
Chalmers Johnson, former political science professor at UC-Berkeley, former 
chairman of the department and chair of the Center for Chinese Studies, 
emeritus professor of political science at UC San Diego, May 14, 2001, The 
Nation, ?Time to Bring the Troops Home,? No. 19, Vol. 272
China is another?attempting similar reconnaissance.

___Nuclear terrorism causes extinction even if it is unsuccessful
Mohamed Sid-Ahmed, political analyst, August 26 ? September 1, 2004, 
Al-Ahram Weekly On-Line, http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/705/op5.htm
We have reached? all be losers.

___Proliferation independently causes extinction and makes nuclear war 
inevitable Stuart Taylor Jr., National Journal senior writer, contributing 
editor at Newsweek, September 16, 2002, Legal Times, ?Worry about Iraq's 
intentions, but focus on the bigger threat: nuclear weapons controlled by 
any terrorist or rogue state,? p. 60
Unless we get?Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.



Adv. 2 - Asian Peace
Successful resolution of North Korea allows China to negotiate Asian peace
Thomas J. Christensen, associate professor of political science at MIT, 
Spring 2005, China Leadership Monitor, Iss. 14, ?Old Problems Trump New 
Thinking: China?s Security Relations with Taiwan, North Korea, and Japan,?  
http://www.chinaleadershipmonitor.org/20052/tc.pdf
On North Korea? Russia, and China

War in Asia escalates to global nuclear war and destroys the world economy
Jonathan S. Landay, national security and intelligence correspondent, March 
10, 2000, Knight Ridder/Tribune News Service, ?Top administration officials 
warn stakes for U.S. are high in Asian conflicts,? p. Lexis
Few if any? the Commerce Department.

___Specifically, North Korean war causes extinction
Pat Fungamwango, October 25, 1999, Times of Zambia (Lusaka), in Africa News, 
?Third world war: Watch the Koreas?
If there is? with North Korea

Plan:  The United Stated Federal Government should increase diplomatic and 
economic pressure on the People?s Republic of China to pressure the 
Democratic People?s Republic of Korea on dismantling its nuclear weapons 
program.





Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade x__  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Augustana BS, FH, RS
Negative Team:

[C

Laogai/Forced Labor

Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

The United States Federal Government should substantially increase 
diplomatic and economic pressure on the People?s Republic of China in the 
area of human rights by abrogating the Memorandum of Understanding of 1992 
with China regarding slave labor and the Statement of Cooperation of 1993 
with China, provide Customs Service the administrative authority to ban 
entire categories of products from China, if it is found that forced labor 
products of the same type are being sent into the United States as well as 
ban all imports from the Chinese state trading company which cooperates in 
the illegal importation of forced labor products. The United States Federal 
Government should also provide the State Department and the U. S. 
Citizenship and Immigration Services the authority to revoke the business 
visa of any People?s Republic of China nationals working in the United 
States for a company or any of its subsidiaries which has been found by the 
Customs Service to be involved in the illegal trade in forced labor 
products.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

Contention 2: We Solve
-The Plan solves, and is substantial pressure on the government
Jeffrey L. Fiedler, President of the Food and Allied Service Trades 
Department of the AFL-CIO, and co-founder of the LRF, Forced Labor in China. 
6/22/2005. http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/Fiedler.php
Current U.S. law concerning-Renouncing the MOU sends a signal to China that 
the U.S. does not accept the Laogai
Laogai Research Foundation, 1995, Newsletter. Laogai Research Foundation 
Proposes U.S. Policy Changes. http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/Dec95c.htm
The Laogai Research Foundation proposes-The plan is key to ending the Laogai 
system, educating individuals in this round is a step in the direction of 
ending oppression
Pejan 00
(Human Rights Brief Winter, 2000 7 Hum. Rts. Br. 22  ARTICLE: Laogai: 
"Reform Through Labor" in China NAME: by Ramin Pejan ** Ramin Pejan is a 
J.D. candidate at the Washington College of Law and an articles editor for 
the Human Rights Brief, l/n)
Aside from the PRC's obligationsThe United States contributes greatly to the 
Laogai?s existence, we cannot ignore the Laogai and at the same time condemn 
Concentration Camps or Gulags it is the same type of system.Wu, founder and 
Executive Director of the Laogai Research Foundation, 01
(New Internationalist 337August 2001Click here to search the mega index. 
Slavery / FORCED LABOUR / TRAFFICKING 
http://www.newint.org/issue337/violent.htm)
As a survivor of 19 years?



Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
Contention 1: The Laogai
-Despite current agreements the US is not enforcing restrictions on forced 
labor products
Jeffrey L. Fiedler, President of the Food and Allied Service Trades 
Department of the AFL-CIO, and co-founder of the LRF, Forced Labor in China. 
6/22/2005. http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/Fiedler.php
The United States negotiated a Memorandum of Understanding?
-The Laogai is the most extensive forced labor camp system in the world and 
is dependant on international commerce to function
Harry Wu, Executive Director, Laogai Research Foundation, 6/22/05 Forced 
Labor In China http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/HarryWu.pdf
The Laogai remains the most extensive

-The U.S. is the main problem. Three billion in Laogai products come to the 
U.S. annually
Daniel J. O'Connor, Political Anylyst and author, 1998. The Chinese Gulag 
Article in the Winter Edition of The Colby Reader 
http://www.colby.edu/par/Winter%2098/Laogai.htm
Although importation of slave

-The U.S. is the biggest market for forced labor products.
South China Morning Post, 8/19/2005. Banks buy into jail-labor firm.
http://www.laogai.org/news/newsdetail.php?id=2361
Six of the world's largest

-Laogai are critical to China?s economy of slavery
Harry Wu, Executive Director, Laogai Research Foundation, 6/22/05  Forced 
Labor In China http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/HarryWu.pdf
Besides being an important

We have an obligation to end human suffering- putting political questions 
before that ethical question repeats the worst atrocities
Meister 05(Department of Politics University of California, Santa Cruz 
Postmodern Culture, 2005 "Never Again": The Ethics of the Neighbor and the 
Logic of Genocide Robert Meister)
           My topic is not whether the "world community
-The Laogai system enslaves 20 million and is a machine of genocide, 
torture, slavery, and corporate fascism when fueled by Western businesses.
Falun Gong Rights Working Group, 2005, Overview of Enslavement 
http://www.flghrwg.net/reports/html/2002_5.html.

The African Slave Trade,Laogai are the ultimate affront to human dignity
Beatrice 99
(VOICES FROM THE LAOGAI: 50 YEARS OF SURVIVING CHINA'S FORCED LABOR CAMPSA 
Report by Dory Beatrice, SDFoT Coordinator 
http://www.sdtibet.org/news_v1n4.html Vol. 1 No. 4  Fall 1999 Quarterly 
Newsletter)
Prisoners are generally

We must struggle for dignity- it is the only way to prevent the annihilation 
of the planet
Holloway 00
("Zapatismo and the Social Sciences John Holloway  This is the text of a 
talk presented to the congress of SCOLAS (Southwest Council of Latin 
American Studies) in Puebla in March 2000." 
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:PfhMWeY3P6QJ:www.endpage.org/Archives/Subversive_Texts/Holloway/The_Zapatistas_and_the_Soc.htm+%22using+people+as+a+means+to+an+end%22&hl=en&client=firefox-a)
To think in the non-existing






Wichita State CS NEG vs. Kansas CJ (Airplanes)

ORIENTALISM OPERATES THROUGH A SYSTEM OF REPRESENTATION THAT LEGITMATES 
CONTROL OVER THE ORIENT
WU 2004
(Nadine ?The Dynamics of Orientalism and Globalization in the International 
Sex Industry and Human Trafficking? 
www.jmu.edu/writeon/documents/2004/wu.pdf)

A. US IMPERIALISM DIVIDES SOVERIGNTY INTO SIDES OF GOOD AND EVIL THIS ACT 
VICIOUSLY OTHERIZES OUTSIDE THREATS WHILE KEEPING THE US SAFELY ON THE SIDE 
OF THE INNOCENT
Nikhil Pal Singh, professor of history at the University of Washington 2002 
(?The Spectacle of Empire,? The anarchy of empire in the making of US 
culture,Harvard University Press)

B. OUR ALTERNATIVE IS TO UNMASK THE AFFLIATIVE ORDER OF ORIENTALISM
BAYMOUI 2004
(Moustafa ?Our Philogical Home is the Earth? Arab Studies Quarterly, 
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2501/is_4_26/ai_1356293)


A. UNIQUENESS
HU WORKING HARD TO CONSOLIDATE POWER BASE-THESE EFFORTS ARE CRITICAL TO 
MAINTAIN HIS MONOPOLY ON POWER
Willy Lam 1-8-05 Senior China Analyst, Jamestown Foundation H?S CAMPAIGN FOR 
IDEOLOGICAL PURITY AGAISNT THE WEST. 
www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?search=1&volume_id=408&issue_id=3201&article_id_2369108

B. LINK
PRESSURE EXERTED BY THE PLAN SPARKS RENEWED NATIONALISM
COTTAM AND COTTAM 2001
(Martha, a political professor at Washington State University, Richard, 
professor in Pitt?s Department of Political Science, Nationalism and 
Politics: The Political Behavior of Nation States, pg 242)

C. IMPACT
1. A SURGE OF NATIONALISM RISKS CURRENT REGIME SURVIVAL
Record, Jeffrey, winter 01 (Armed Services Committee, professor of strategy 
and international security at the Air War College, senior research fellow at 
the Center for International Strategy, Technology and Policy) ?Thinking 
about China and War? Aerospace Power Journal

2. A BILLION PEOPLE WILL DIE
Sam Renxing, Aug 05 2005, ?The CCP?s Last Ditch Gable: Biological and 
Nuclear War Hundreds of millions of deaths proposed? Epoch Times Staff




















Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan _X_


Affirmative Team: Miami
Negative Team: Kansas

[C
China-Taiwan War/US-Sino Relations


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Plan: the United States Federal Government should substantially increase 
diplomatic and economic pressure on the People?s Republic of China through 
direct conditional positive support and financing to achieve an agreed 
framework of declaratory statements and of other confidence-building 
measures with Taiwan.

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

The United States has a window of opportunity to take a crucial, more 
pro-active role in bringing a cross-straight framework that locks-in the 
peace and stability of the status quo. Liberthal explains in 2005. No quals? 
?thus the December 2004 developments?could present major obstacles?

The US can effectively pressure china to initiate a framework that will 
establish a small step toward mutual confidence. Liberthal 2005. ?A SECOND 
and politically more?to help international support?

Conditional aid can generate economic pressure for china to reach these 
agreements with Taiwan. M. Shane Smith, research Assistant at the University 
of Colorado?s Conflict Resolution Consortium, 2004. 
www.beyondintractability.org/m/incentives.jsp ?another type of 
incentive...occupied territories?

The US will be accepted as a mediator of the dialogue. Dr. Monte Bullard, 
Senior Fellow at the Center for Nonproliferation Studies explained in 
December 2004. ?contrary to prior stated policies by all?measures by all 
three sides?

Declaratory statements would likely lead to further confidence-building 
measures. Bonnie Glaser, Senior Associate CSIS, 2003. BREAKING THE 
CHINA-TAIWAN IMPASSE pg. 157 ?while negotiations of thorny political?and 
advanced measures?

CBM?s will reduce misperceptions in both the political and military spheres. 
Brad Glosserman, director of Research for the Pacific Forum, CSIS Feb 2005. 
www.csis.org/pacfor/issues/v05n02_authors.cfm ?CBMs/CSBMs are defined as 
both formal and informal?the security concerns of both sides.?

These agreements can transform cross-straights relations from confrontation 
to cooperation. Chyungly Lee, Associate Research Fellow at the Institute of 
International Relations. MARITIME CONFIDENCE BUILDING MEASURES ACROSS THE 
TAIWAN STRAIGHT, SANDIA, SAND March 2003. 
www.cmc.sandia.gov/papers-sand-documents.htm ?the goal of this study was to 
develop?.cooperation-dominated mindset.?





Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

The first implication is an allout war between the US and China. If China 
attacks Taiwan escalation to the nuclear level remains a real possibility. 
Michael Swaine, Senior Associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International 
Peace wrote in April of 2005: 
www.carnegieedowment.org/events/index.cfm?fa=eventDetail&id=771&&prog=zch 
?it is by no means?or by design?

This scenario would present many risks, including escalation to the nuclear 
level. The Straight Times, June 25, 2000. ?the high intensity 
scenario?sovereignty above everything else?

Even if the US did not come to Taiwan?s defense, the cooperative 
relationship between china and the US would be destroyed. Ashley Tellis, 
Senior Associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, April 
2005. 
www.carnegieedowment.org/events/index.cfm?fa=eventDetail&id=771&&prog=zch 
?at the political level?future world order?

Cooperative Sino-US relations are crucial to peace and prosperity in Asia. 
Michael Swine, Foreign Affairs, March/April 2004 ?moreover, the 
maintenance?war on terrorism?

A war between India and Pakistan could threaten our existence on the planet. 
The Washington times 2001. ?the most dangerous place on the planet?the 
entire globe?

A war on the Korean peninsula would present equally severe risks. Africa 
News 1999 ?if there is one place today?technically still at war?

A cross-straight conflict would undermine Asian trade and prosperity. 
Business week august 22nd 2005. ?china?s biggest flashpoint?would spill into 
trade?

Global prosperity would be jeopardized given the vital role of Asian trading 
routes. Yun Han Chu, Senior Fellow of the Institute of Political Science at 
the National Taiwan university August 2004. Asian Survey p492 ?an outbreak 
of military?financial markets?

Billions of lives depend on prosperous Sino-us ties. Denny Roy, Assistant 
professor National Security Affairs, Naval Postgraduate School, 2000. 
Survival Magazine, Spring pg.76 ?a working relationship?related political 
environment?

Global economic collapse would lead to multiple escalation scenarios. 
Bearden Retired US Army, Director Association of Distinguished American 
Scientists, 2000. www.seaspower.com/energycrisis-bearden.htm ?history bears 
out that desperate?at least for many decades?


Key 2AC Arguments/Positions: [Please include tags + full citations]




On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation



Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:
ASPEC
Extra T
XO CP
Executive Orders allow the president to enact policy while avoiding the 
political process of legislation. Philip Cooper, By Order of the President: 
The Use and Abuse of Executive Direct Action p. 58-59 ?executive orders are 
often used because?provide orders generated elsewhere?

Executive orders are essential to increasing and projecting presidential 
power. Todd Graziano, Texas Review of Law and Politics, Spring 2001. ?a 
proper understanding of a presidents?in the world?

Congressional encroachment in foreign policy constrains presidential power. 
Casper Weinberger The Fettered Presidency :Legal Constraints on the 
Executive Branch pg 97  ?with this in mind?to survive?

Executive order has force of law. Philip Cooper, By Order of the President: 
The Use and Abuse of Executive Direct Action p21 ?in the most general 
sense?force of law?

Presidential power is essential to US leadership in solving ethnic conflicts 
and AIDS. The Atlanta Journal and Constitution January 23, 2000. ?as 
president Clinton?that elaborates on the theme?

AIDs threatens to kill tens of millions. Avert.org 2005. 
www.avert.org/aafrica.htm  ?sub-saharan Africa?economy in general?

The Presidents influence over budget, agencies and other issues through XO 
has wide impacts. Kenneth Mayer With the stroke of a pen-executive orders 
and presidential power? ?but the institutional?executive branch?
Neither congress or the courts overturn executive orders. CNN.com March 29, 
2005. www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/29/ace.up.sleeve/index.html ?critics 
of executive order...factor of four?

Turn- the perm would lead to conflicts of interest and pork barrel politics 
killing solvency. Steven Calabresi, Arkansas Law Review 1995. ?in sum, the 
anti-unitarian?of the laws?

Turn- Strong presidential powers is key to terrorism, nuclear war, and 
preserve national security. Thomas Cronin and Michael Genovese The Pradoxes 
of the American Presidency ?a central question?of various coalitions?

No impact-Balance of powers is impossible to achieve. Kenneth Mayer With the 
stroke of a pen-executive orders and presidential power ?joseph story, in 
his?he cannot control?


Politics
Indian Nuclear cooperation will pass, but bush?s political capital is key. 
The Seattle Times, August 2, 2005. ?us officials are optimistic?supporting 
the accord?

Anti Taiwan policies require massive political capital. The Scotsman, April 
28, 2001. ?a recent draft ?back in the bank

Nuclear cooperation is key to us-indian relations. India Today, August 1, 
2005. ?the meeting would later?to do so?

This solves Taiwan war (analytical)

American Exceptionalism K
Link-Affirmative call to use economic pressure on china is rooted in 
American Exceptionalism. Annita Lysikatou, November 28, 1999. 
www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/smith/lysikatou.htm. ?the united 
states has much to gain?break open foreign markets?

Impact- The discursive construction of china is based on the flawed us self 
image of exceptionalism guarentteing conflict with china and a flawed 
epistemological approach to IR which must be rejected- minor changes fail.

Alternative text: Vote Neg- This refusal to accept the aff?s epistemology is 
crucial to opening up new ways of debating china.
The President of America should issue and executive order giving direct 
conditional positive support and financing to achieve an agreed framework of 
declatory statements and of other confidence-building measure.




















Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Missouri State KO
Negative Team: NIU PW

[C

U.S.-China Trade War
U.S. Soft Power
Chinese Economy

Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

The USFG should substantially increase diplomatic and economic pressure on 
China in the area of trade by initiating a dispute settlement understanding 
process within the WTO to encourage China to implement the following: 1) 
Switch the rinmibi from a unitary peg to a currency gase consisting of the 
dollar, euro, and Yen, 2) revalue the renmibi by 20% 3) widen the currency 
band on the renmibi by 5%.

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

Lubman 2005 ? China is subject to pressure through WTO dispute settlement 
process ?The Dragon as demon: Images of China on Capital Hill?

Currency revalue key to solve  Goldstein 2004  ?Adjusting Chinas exchange 
rate policies?

US Trade deficit gives power over China only ? Fishman 2005
http://judiciary.house.gove/oversightTestimony.aspx?ID=395

Plan Solves ? Goldstein and Lardy 2003 ? ?To state currency reform for 
China?

Revalue Solves China Economy
Davis 2004 ? ?Investment and implications of a future Chinese currency 
revaluation?



Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

Adv. 1 ? China Econ
Hard Landing w/o revalue econo crisis inevitable Kenneth Rogoff 2005 
(?Chinas baby step?)
China overheat kills world econ (davis ?04 ? Chinas Economic Slowdown)
Mead 92

Oil Peak
W/o/ china?s oil will peak (peter maas 2005 ? ?The breaking point?)
Big Impact econ ? beardon 2000
U.S. pressure is key to slow growth ? Lilly 2005 (How much to feed a dragon)

Government stability
Econ decline --> nationalism (epoch times 2005 ? ?where the Chinese economy 
is headed?

CCP threat --> WMD War (ranxing 2005 ? ?CCP gambles insanely to avoid 
death?)

ADV. 2 ? Trade

China won?t revalue ? Daily Times 2005 ? no plan for another one-off 
revaluation, says China?
Protectionism is inevitable ? McKay 2005 (?unwinding global imbalances?)
U.S.-Sino Relations key to peace ? McDonald 2004 ?U.S. trade deficit with 
China?
Mead 2004 ? econ impacts
Johnson 2001 ? U.S.-Sino War MPX

Adv. 3 ? Soft Power
Chinas growing econo hurts u.S. power ? Kurlatzick 2005
?China challenges to us soft power in asia?

SP is key to Solving terrorism
NYE 2004
Terror = extinction Alexander 2003

Soft Power Key to hegemony Nye 96

Key 2AC Arguments/Positions: [Please include tags + full citations]

WTO Credibility Add-on
WTO cred decreasing key to global trade
Finance 24 ? 2005

Pressure is key to credibility ? mastel 1997

WTO collapse --> nuclear war ? Copley news service



On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation


Econ pressure = sanctions
Increase = make bigger

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Chinese Nationalism DA
Contained Now ? Sutter 2005
Pressure increases nationalism ? qingguo 2005
Nationalism --> CCP takeover ? dingxin 2002
Natlism --> war over Taiwan

Relations (ADI Version)

Ban all restrictions on trade to china.



Additional I
Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade x__  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Augustana BS, FH, RS
Negative Team:

[C

Laogai/Forced Labor

Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

The United States Federal Government should substantially increase 
diplomatic and economic pressure on the People?s Republic of China in the 
area of human rights by abrogating the Memorandum of Understanding of 1992 
with China regarding slave labor and the Statement of Cooperation of 1993 
with China, provide Customs Service the administrative authority to ban 
entire categories of products from China, if it is found that forced labor 
products of the same type are being sent into the United States as well as 
ban all imports from the Chinese state trading company which cooperates in 
the illegal importation of forced labor products. The United States Federal 
Government should also provide the State Department and the U. S. 
Citizenship and Immigration Services the authority to revoke the business 
visa of any People?s Republic of China nationals working in the United 
States for a company or any of its subsidiaries which has been found by the 
Customs Service to be involved in the illegal trade in forced labor 
products.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

Contention 2: We Solve
-The Plan solves, and is substantial pressure on the government
Jeffrey L. Fiedler, President of the Food and Allied Service Trades 
Department of the AFL-CIO, and co-founder of the LRF, Forced Labor in China. 
6/22/2005. http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/Fiedler.php
Current U.S. law concerning-Renouncing the MOU sends a signal to China that 
the U.S. does not accept the Laogai
Laogai Research Foundation, 1995, Newsletter. Laogai Research Foundation 
Proposes U.S. Policy Changes. http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/Dec95c.htm
The Laogai Research Foundation proposes-The plan is key to ending the Laogai 
system, educating individuals in this round is a step in the direction of 
ending oppression
Pejan 00
(Human Rights Brief Winter, 2000 7 Hum. Rts. Br. 22  ARTICLE: Laogai: 
"Reform Through Labor" in China NAME: by Ramin Pejan ** Ramin Pejan is a 
J.D. candidate at the Washington College of Law and an articles editor for 
the Human Rights Brief, l/n)
Aside from the PRC's obligationsThe United States contributes greatly to the 
Laogai?s existence, we cannot ignore the Laogai and at the same time condemn 
Concentration Camps or Gulags it is the same type of system.Wu, founder and 
Executive Director of the Laogai Research Foundation, 01
(New Internationalist 337August 2001Click here to search the mega index. 
Slavery / FORCED LABOUR / TRAFFICKING 
http://www.newint.org/issue337/violent.htm)
As a survivor of 19 years?



Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
Contention 1: The Laogai
-Despite current agreements the US is not enforcing restrictions on forced 
labor products
Jeffrey L. Fiedler, President of the Food and Allied Service Trades 
Department of the AFL-CIO, and co-founder of the LRF, Forced Labor in China. 
6/22/2005. http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/Fiedler.php
The United States negotiated a Memorandum of Understanding?
-The Laogai is the most extensive forced labor camp system in the world and 
is dependant on international commerce to function
Harry Wu, Executive Director, Laogai Research Foundation, 6/22/05 Forced 
Labor In China http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/HarryWu.pdf
The Laogai remains the most extensive

-The U.S. is the main problem. Three billion in Laogai products come to the 
U.S. annually
Daniel J. O'Connor, Political Anylyst and author, 1998. The Chinese Gulag 
Article in the Winter Edition of The Colby Reader 
http://www.colby.edu/par/Winter%2098/Laogai.htm
Although importation of slave

-The U.S. is the biggest market for forced labor products.
South China Morning Post, 8/19/2005. Banks buy into jail-labor firm.
http://www.laogai.org/news/newsdetail.php?id=2361
Six of the world's largest

-Laogai are critical to China?s economy of slavery
Harry Wu, Executive Director, Laogai Research Foundation, 6/22/05  Forced 
Labor In China http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/HarryWu.pdf
Besides being an important

We have an obligation to end human suffering- putting political questions 
before that ethical question repeats the worst atrocities
Meister 05(Department of Politics University of California, Santa Cruz 
Postmodern Culture, 2005 "Never Again": The Ethics of the Neighbor and the 
Logic of Genocide Robert Meister)
           My topic is not whether the "world community
-The Laogai system enslaves 20 million and is a machine of genocide, 
torture, slavery, and corporate fascism when fueled by Western businesses.
Falun Gong Rights Working Group, 2005, Overview of Enslavement 
http://www.flghrwg.net/reports/html/2002_5.html.

The African Slave Trade,Laogai are the ultimate affront to human dignity
Beatrice 99
(VOICES FROM THE LAOGAI: 50 YEARS OF SURVIVING CHINA'S FORCED LABOR CAMPSA 
Report by Dory Beatrice, SDFoT Coordinator 
http://www.sdtibet.org/news_v1n4.html Vol. 1 No. 4  Fall 1999 Quarterly 
Newsletter)
Prisoners are generally

We must struggle for dignity- it is the only way to prevent the annihilation 
of the planet
Holloway 00
("Zapatismo and the Social Sciences John Holloway  This is the text of a 
talk presented to the congress of SCOLAS (Southwest Council of Latin 
American Studies) in Puebla in March 2000." 
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:PfhMWeY3P6QJ:www.endpage.org/Archives/Subversive_Texts/Holloway/The_Zapatistas_and_the_Soc.htm+%22using+people+as+a+means+to+an+end%22&hl=en&client=firefox-a)
To think in the non-existing






Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade _x_  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Missouri State MeWa
Negative Team: Wayne ET

[C


Heidegger ? Calc thought BAD
Sex trafficking, human rights, value to life
Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

China One Child Policy affirmative. Solvency through cutting off all trade

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]





Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]


Key 2AC Arguments/Positions: [Please include tags + full citations]

Kritik of Topicality
Fear of war ideology is bad
Risk of war paradigm flawed
Prophecy not reality

Gordon:
Compromise with evil bad
Must focus on individual action, not what could possibly happen



On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation

Calc Thoughts:
Nazism means must reject aff args ? Zizek
Focus on ontology = genocide inevitable

Trafficking:
Statistics flawed ? it?s voluntary
Plan used to deny women asylum
Sex trafficking laws bad; corrupt laws --> sex trade


ASPEC

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

WTO Good DA

Politics:
India won?t confront Iran now
Increase pressure means B gets agenda
B?s agenda collapses NPT
Prolif leads to indirect NW, regional conflicts

Chinese nationalism DA

China Bashing/Dollar DA (Bond Sell-off scenario)

Consult China (2NC says China will say ?no?)



Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: EmporiaState JM
Negative Team: Wayne BR

[C


Miscalc ? U.S. provokes china with support of Taiwan

Threat Con ? US causes cycle of warfighting mentality
Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]



Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]





Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]


Key 2AC Arguments/Positions: [Please include tags + full citations]




On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation

Silence = Holocaust ? must construct threats
Deterrence Good

Aff must increase both diplomatic and economic pressure ? increase 
pre-existing pressure.  Must increase or FX Topical

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:

Drury & L 2003 ? Diplomatic pressure


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Japan says yes ? key to alliance (Ogawa 99)
Japan supports pressure on Taiwan ? zhongwei 99
Alliance key to hegemony ? Ogawa 99
Khalillzad

POLITICS
Not support  - karb 2005
PRC pressure incr congress support (NPT?) ? mitton 2005
NPT Pass x?s NPT = global arms race ? Sacramento Bee 2005
Global nuclear war

Consult Japan CP ? Japan says ?yes?

USFG should enter into prior binding consultations with the Japanese 
government over the plan.



Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights __  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Oklahoma JL
Negative Team: UMKC FR

[C



Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Because we believe that the capitalist system causes ecological destruction 
and oppression, we believe that the United States Federal Government should 
pressure China to no longer accept World Bank loans.

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]


Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

World bank is key financer of global capitalism ? Kozel 2002 ?the enemy of 
nature? p. 70-71

?existing anti-globalization movements will coalesce to our cause to provide 
support ? kozel 2002 p. 226

Capitalism threatens survival ? The Tragedy of modernity ?explorations in 
environmental political theory? p. 19

Particularized struggles under grid ideological attacks. Indict of 
capitalism at large wen combined with the fight against world bank is more 
revolutionary than by themselves ? kozel 2002 p. 223

No value to life ? logic of capitalism --> mass death and articulation of a 
value to life impossible
The Internationalist Perspectives 2000 ? 
http://www.geocities.com/wageslavex/capandgen.html

The neg args based on human survival or security ? but capitalisms 
interaction with these claims make neither survival or security possible ? 
in the process their approach makes life meaningless preventing articulation 
of the impact to their arguments
Hyland 2004 ? naturalselection.org
http://www.naturalselection.org/onz/s/3.4_matthew_hyland.pdf


Key 2AC Arguments/Positions: [Please include tags + full citations]




On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation

Monolithic representations of Capitalism BAD ? Gibson-Graham 1996

Pressure = sanctions

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:

Ted Galen Carpenter ? 2003
http://www.cato.org/dailys/01-04-03.html


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Aff begins with wrong question of ?policy action? we should take towards 
challenge.  We must challenge the premise of the US needing to change China 
and discuss these two countries in their own terms which will --> awareness 
better political decisions.
Weston & Jensen 2000 ?China beyond the headlines?

Held together by assumptions that China is inherently in need of help to fix 
their primitive culture.  This mentality forecloses any possibility for real 
dialogue with what we consider china.
?Legal Orientalism?  Michigan Law Review Vol. 101:179

When we create China as a belligerent aggressor ? it?s a self-fulfilling 
prophecy.  This thinking closes off althernative understandings of China --> 
cycle of fear oppression
Morgan 2004 ? ?Distinguishing truth, knowledge and belief? Modern China, 
Vol. 30, July

Policy not escape western knowledge assumption that is superior to China.  
US Formulates IR policy by creating west\east distinction.  This --> 
divisions, and threatens survival ? SAID Orientalism 1978 p. 44

Alto ? Get beyond this view ? listen to the voice of the other.  People in 
China have voices ? breaks down hierarchy
Tongxi 1988 ? The Myth of the Other?, Critical Inquiry, Vol. 15, Autumn




Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade x


Affirmative Team: Kansas CJ
Negative Team: Wichita State CS

[C


Hegemony Good ? U.S. airline industry
Economy good ? U.S. China Cargo capacity
Trade Good ? U.S. trade Credibility
Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

USFG should threaten to restrict aviation access to the US from the PRC 
unless the PRC accepts an open skies agreement.

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]




Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: MO State JW
Negative Team: Augie BS

[C


Global Health/Medicine
Leadership/Competitiveness
Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Executive branch of the USFG should substantially increase diplomatic and 
economic pressure on the PRC by filing a formal comlaint against the PRC 
under the WTO dispute settlement mechanisms for failure to fulfill its 
obligations under the agreement on trade related aspects of intellectual 
property rights.  The USFG will impose tariffs on imported goods from the 
PRC equal to 14% of the value of these goods pending approval of the WTO.

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

Dip/Econ pressure key to compliance ? Tkacik 2003 
(www.heritage.org/research/tradeandforeignaod/BGI698.cfm)

WTO best way to solve (killian 2004 ? Minnesota Journal of Global Trade

Stopping Key IP production globally ? business week 2005 ?Fakes!? Feb. 7, 
lexis




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

Medical/Global Health
IPR Key to advancing medicine globally  Kilam 2005 ?Drug patents are part of 
the cure?

Counterfeit Drugs in PRC ineffective ? Goodman 2002 ? Washington Post Aug. 
30

PRC spreads multi-drug resistant TB (Wise 2001 ? ?TB should be treated as a 
public health emergency? 4/25/01

Drug resist TB spreads to HIV (wise 2001) 
www.the-scientist.com/news/2001040205)



Leadership
Choate 2005 ? ?Hot Property? ? IPR Violations in China undermine U.S. 
Competitiveness
Mendenhall 2005 ? IP is key to Overall US Competitiveness ? Federal News 
Service July 2005
Countries must compete in Global economy (cawaghi 2002)

Tech/econ leadership key to hegemony  - Khalilzad 95 ?Losing the moment?
U.S. Leadership key to stop world nuke war ? khalilzad 95

Key 2AC Arguments/Positions: [Please include tags + full citations]




On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation

China has high rates of investment ? reuters aug. 15, 2005 ?China, july 
investment higher?

Sanctions cause capital flight ? Jiang 2001 ? The Chinese National Defense 
University Country Economic sanctions

Econ pressure = sanctions
Ware 2004
Seattle Journal For Social Justice Fall 2003
?Rule of force or rule of law??

Pressure Spec

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Relations/Trade War DA
Zoellick Incr Relations Now ? Newsweek 2005

Trade war between U.S.-China --> Shooting war
Liv 2005 ?Trade wars can lead to shooting war?

Human Rights DA
China seeking cooperation w/ U.S. ? Kissinger 2005
Washington Post, June 13

Human rights progress being made now ? work with China is key
Dalphino 99
www.brookings.edu/comm/policybriefs/pb50.htm



USFG will make IPR compliance a conditions for being granted ?Market 
economy? status.

Framing the aff as a market economy issue derails protectionism in U.S. ? 
Green 2004



KANSAS jw 1AC - nate johnson & Jon wright
ADVANTAGE ONE ? CROSS-STRAIT WAR
subpoint a ? THE GATHERING STORM
china will attack taiwan by the end of this year ? military statements prove

Allen ?05
Kenneth W., Senior Analyst at the Center for Naval Analyses,  ?China?s 
Perspective on Non-Strategic Nuclear Weapons and Arms Control,? Chapter 10 
in  Controlling Non-Strategic Nuclear Weapons: Obstacles and Opportunities. 
Edited by Jeffrey A. Larsen and Kurt J. Klingenberger 
http://www.usafa.af.mil/df/inss/books/lk/
China has deployed hundreds of ballistic missiles aimed at Taiwan ? these 
deployments are changing the leadership?s calculations to attack taiwan, 
collapsing us-china relations.

Swaine & Runyon ?01
Michael Swaine is Senior Political Scientist in International Studies at 
RAND in Santa Monica (California) and Research Director of the RAND Center 
for Asia-Pacific Policy. Loren Runyon is Senior Intern at The National 
Bureau of Asian
Research,  ?BALLISTIC MISSILE DEVELOPMENT.?  
http://strategicasia.nbr.org/Report/pdf/ShowReportPDF.aspx?ID=8&f=1

The situation is only getting worse ? by the end of the year there will be 
1000 missiles pointed at Taiwan

Taipei Times, April 24, 2005
?China to deploy cruise missiles: NSB.? Rich Chang, STAFF REPORTER.

Counterforce targeting isn?t an option ? China?s missiles are too mobile to 
take out preemptively, and Taiwanese intelligence is insufficient to find 
them all

Saunders & Saalman, October 2002
Phillip C., Director of EANP, and Lora L., Research Assistant. ?Taiwan?s 
Response to China?s Missile Buildup.?  Center for Nonproliferation Studies.  
http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_17b.html#fn8

No missile defense system is enough ? even top of the line systems cannot 
overcome a missile attack on such a large scale

O?Hanlon, July 2000
Michael, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and adjunct professor at 
Columbia University, ?CAN CHINA CONQUER TAIWAN??  International Security 
(vol. 25, no. 2).  
http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/ohanlon/2000fall_IS.pdf

SUBPOINT B ? THE INVASION ? CHINA?S MISSILES WILL ALLOW A SUCCESSFUL 
INVASION OF TAIWAN ? WE WILL ISOLATE THREE SCENARIOS
SCENARIO 1 ? AIR SUPERIORITY
First, taiwan?s air superiority is the lynchpin of defense ? with it, it can 
prevent and deter china from invading the strait

Asia Times, August 9, 1999
?A strategy of bluff.? STRATFOR's Global Intelligence Update Weekly 
Analysis. http://www.atimes.com/china/AH10Ad01.html


Next, China?s ballistic missiles threaten Taiwan?s air force ? they can use 
preemptive missile strikes to destroy the fleet while they?re on the ground.

Kagan 2000
?How China Will Take Taiwan.? By Robert Kagan, senior associate @ the 
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.  Washington Post, March 12, 2000 
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=232

And, a massive missile strike can be used to take out Taiwan?s command and 
control centers and air defenses ? destroying the TAF?s operations tempo and 
ability to conduct counterstrikes.

Stokes 2000
Major Mark A., Country Director for the PRC and Taiwan within the Office of 
the Secretary of Defense, International Security Affairs. ?SPACE, THEATER 
MISSILES, AND ELECTRONIC WARFARE: EMERGING FORCE MULTIPLERS FOR THE PLA 
AEROSPACE CAMPAIGN.? CHINESE MILITARY AFFAIRS: A CONFERENCE ON THE STATE OF 
THE FIELD. 26-27 OCTOBER, FORT MCNAIR, WASHINGTON DC, AEROSPACE I PANEL.  
http://www.ndu.edu/inss/China_Center/CMA_Conf_Oct00/paper16.htm

China?s acquisition of new guidance systems and satellite technology mean 
their missiles are highly accurate.

Stokes 2000
Major Mark A., Country Director for the PRC and Taiwan within the Office of 
the Secretary of Defense, International Security Affairs. ?SPACE, THEATER 
MISSILES, AND ELECTRONIC WARFARE: EMERGING FORCE MULTIPLERS FOR THE PLA 
AEROSPACE CAMPAIGN.? CHINESE MILITARY AFFAIRS: A CONFERENCE ON THE STATE OF 
THE FIELD. 26-27 OCTOBER, FORT MCNAIR, WASHINGTON DC, AEROSPACE I PANEL.  
http://www.ndu.edu/inss/China_Center/CMA_Conf_Oct00/paper16.htm

SCENARIO 2 ? RAPID CAPITULATION
China?s missile deployments are a form of psychological warfare ? a massive 
missile attack will frighten the public and destroy the Taiwanese 
leadership?s political will to continue the war.

Ding 2001
Arthur S. Ding, Ph. D. Research Fellow and Director, Research Division III, 
Institute of International Relations, National Chengchi University. ?Taiwan: 
>From Integrated Missile Defense to RMA?? 
http://jciss.llnl.gov/IT_RMA/Ding_Final.pdf

even if a missile attack doesn?t allow for an invasion, it will crush 
taiwan?s economy and force them into negotiations

Washington Post, April 12, 2005
?China's Military Goal Is to Stop U.S. Defense of Taiwan.? Edward Cody, 
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/4/12/103306.shtml

SCENARIO 3 ? LIGHTNING STRIKES
A large ballistic missile attack is part of China?s new doctrine of 
preemption ? with it, they can win the war before the US ever arrives

Kagan 2000
?How China Will Take Taiwan.? By Robert Kagan, senior associate @ the 
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.  Washington Post, March 12, 2000 
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=232

This failure to help Taiwan will damage credibility of the US deterrent 
throughout Asia, causing rapid nuclearization by allies.

O?Hanlon, April 6, 2005
Michael, chair of the Brookings Institution, ?Conflict Scenarios over Taiwan 
? How to Avoid, or Contain, War.? A Paper Prepared for the Conference: 
"Preventing and Resolving Conflict Across the Taiwan Strait" Co-Sponsored by 
The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and The China Reform Forum 
Held in Beijing.
That causes nuclear war

Cirincione ?00
Joseph, director of the Non-Proliferation Project at the Carnegie Endowment 
for International Peace. ?The Asian Nuclear Reaction Chain.?  Foreign Policy 
no118 120-36 Spring 2000.

Even if the US intervenes, global nuclear war results

The Straits Times (Singapore) June 25, 2000
?No one gains in war over Taiwan.? Ching Cheong.

SUBPOINT C ? BIG IMPACTS
even if war doesn?t escalate, it will trigger global economic collapse

Kern, March 16, 2005
Soeren, Senior Analyst, United States and Transatlantic Dialogue, Elcano 
Royal Institute?Are China and the US Drifting Towards War over Taiwan?? 
http://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/analisis/707/KernChina-EEUU.pdf

global economic collapse causes nuclear war

Mead 1992
Walter Russell, New Perspectives Quarterly, Summer, p. 30.

after reunification, china will expand into the spratlys and the rest of 
asia

Asia Times, November 6, 2002
?The Spratlys pact: Beijing's olive branch.?  By Francesco Sisci. 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/china/DK06Ad01.html

and, china will use its missiles deployed against taiwan to wage war over 
the spratlys

Guthe & Payne, no date given
Kurt Guthe, Director of Strategic Studies at the National Institute for 
Public Policy & former senior analyst at the Center for Strategic and 
Budgetary Assessments, and Keith Payne, Deputy Assistant Secretary of 
Defense for Forces and Policy (until June 2003) and former National 
Institute for Public Policy Director. "The Unique Value of Ballistic 
Missiles for Deterrence and Coercion: The Chinese Case? 
http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/missile/rumsfeld/pt3_guthe.htm

spratlys war draws in the us and goes nuclear

The Nikkei Weekly (Japan), July 3, 1995
?Developing Asian nations should be allowed a grace period to allow their 
economies to grow before being subjected to trade liberalization demands, 
says Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad.?

ADVANTAGE TWO ? PROLIFERATION
SUBPOINT A ? taiwan
china?s missile deployments will cause taiwan to nuclearize to counter them

Washington Times, Dec. 8, 1999
?China Targets Taiwan with 2nd Missile Base.?  By Bill Gertz.  
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:46J9DN74_xgJ:taiwansecurity.org/News/WT-991208-2nd-Missile-Base.htm+taiwan+%22biological%22+chinese+threat&hl=en

taiwanese nuclearization won?t deter china, but does ensure immediate 
nuclear war

Mack ?96
Andrew Mack is Professor of International Relations at the Australian 
National University. ?Proliferation in
Northeast Asia,? Occasional Paper No. 28 July 1996, published by the Henry 
L. Stimson Center in Washington, DC. http://www.stimson.org/wmd/pdf/mack.pdf

SUBPOINT B ? AGGRESSIVE POSTURE
China?s ballistic missile deployments will cause them to adopt a more 
aggressive force posture, threatening Taiwan, Japan, and US troops 
throughout Asia

Swaine & Runyon 2002
?Ballistic Missiles and Missile Defense in Asia.?  Dr. Michael D. Swaine, 
senior associate and codirector of the China Program at the Carnegie 
Endowment for International Peace, with assistance from Loren H. Runyon, 
senior intern at the National Bureau of Asian Research. 
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/swainenbr.pdf

fear of chinese aggression will cause japan to acquire nuclear weapons

Financial Times (London,England) December 3, 2002
?As the world's most populous nation emerges as the next Asian superpower, 
John Thornhill examines the possible repercussions for the security and the 
economy of the region.? By JOHN THORNHILL.

That causes nuclear war

Business Week, January 20, 2003
?WHY JAPAN JUST MIGHT BUILD NUKES.? By Irene M. Kunii in Tokyo.

China?s missiles will be used to coerce US military assets, destroying our 
ability to forward deploy and ending US leadership in Asia

Swaine & Runyon 2002
?Ballistic Missiles and Missile Defense in Asia.?  Dr. Michael D. Swaine, 
senior associate and codirector of the China Program at the Carnegie 
Endowment for International Peace, with assistance from Loren H. Runyon, 
senior intern at the National Bureau of Asian Research. 
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/swainenbr.pdf

us leadership in asia is crucial to stop multiple scenarios for nuclear war

Khalilzad ?95
Zalmay, total baller and debate legend, ?Losing the Moment? The United 
States and the World After the Cold War.? The Washington Quarterly, 1995 
Spring, Vol. 18, No. 2; Pg. 84.
Therefore, we offer the following plan:  the executive branch of the united 
states federal government should threaten to, and subsequently impose trade 
sanctions on the people?s republic of china unless the people?s republicof 
china begins the full removal and dismantlement of its missiles and 
missile-related assets deployed for use against the island of taiwan.  we 
can clarify.
OBSERVATION ONE ? SOLVENCY
First, China?s 2002 offer of a missile freeze proves that their missile 
assets are on the negotiating table

Kan, March 21, 2005
Shirley A. Kan, Specialist in National Security Policy - Foreign Affairs, 
Defense, and Trade Division.  ?Taiwan: Major U.S. Arms Sales Since 1990.?  
Congressional Research Service.  
http://www.ndu.edu/library/docs/crs/crs_rl30957_21mar05.pdfus pressure is 
key getting china to reduce its missiles ? we must change the perception 
that we can be pushed around if we want compliance

FLANNERY, April 17, 2000
RUSSELL Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ?Taiwan's New Foreign 
Minister Urges U.S. to Press China to Slow Missiles.? 
http://www.taiwandc.org/wsj-2000-09.htm

ECONOMIC PRESSURE IS KEY TO SOLVE TAIWAN AND MISSILE ISSUES ? THE THREAT OF 
SANCTIONS WILL SOLVE
BUNNING, 2K
Senator Jim, ?PERMANENT TRADE WITH CHINA,? September, 
http://bunning.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Speeches.Detail&Speech_id=27&Month=9&Year=2000economic 
pressure is key to stop chinese missile deployments against taiwan

Lighthizer, 18 April 1999
Robert E., a trade lawyer whose clients include several domestic 
steelmakers, was a deputy trade representative in the Reagan Administration. 
  ?A Deal We'd Be Likely To Regret.? The New York Times.

chinese removal of its srbm?s would ensure taiwan?s security and would be 
verifiable

Johnston, no date given
Alastair Iain Johnston, professor of government @ Harvard University 
?Solving the China-Taiwan Standoff: A Modest Proposal.? 
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~johnston/Taiwan_proposal.pdf

now is the key time ? china is having an internal debate over whether to 
remove its missiles

Taiwan News, May 31, 2005
?PRC May Pull Back Missiles Facing Taiwan, Paper Reveals.?
http://taiwansecurity.org/TN/2005/TN-310505.htm

us pressure is key to solve miscalculation by china

Kagan & Kristol, 12/22/2003
?Stand by Taiwan.? by Robert Kagan and William Kristol, Volume 009, Issue 15
http://www.fapa.org/WEN-VISIT-2003/WEEKLYSTANDARD.htm



Additional Affirmative Information [ will be updated by end of Rd 3 ]

UTSA RR

They read ?Before the Law? by Franz Kafka.  Then talk a little bit about the 
topic
We read two pieces of agamben evidence
And some evidence about Chinese Prison camps and human rights in china.

UT-Dallas CS

MTCR Ratification ? Chinese access to International Space Station

Arms Races advantage
?Radar Love?
Space Race bad /India-Pakistan

Concordia ES

Increase diplomatic and economic pressure on PRC in area of Human rights
Resolution can be an alternative point of power and discursive enactment 
full of political meaning and significance.  We speak the resolution in a 
different way, recognizing interactions between dominant discourse and 
dominated discourse
Shapiro 2004  ?methods and nations? p. 17-19

Our misinterpretation of the resolution is outside traditional norms opening 
space of discursive contestation ? Bhabha 94

Post-colonial project of contestation

Missouri State CP

Sanction parent companies to get China to join the MTCR
Prolif (S. Asia, Non Prolif Cred, ME Arms Race, Iran)




Concordia FF 1AC (Dr. David Hingstman)


China opposes now?  Blocks websites.
How does US funding put pressure on China.  Form of leverage of 
China.Shaprio ev.  Beaten in prison because threat to the toursim industry
pressures on govt who allowed bllood selling schemes
find comprehensive ed at NGO level
moral obligation to the other?  Unfinished world of openness.  Bush 
administration makes that judgment now
How does giving funding solve?


I.  IDEOLOGICAL PURITY
First, the US has refused to assist international efforts for comprehensive 
sex education because of ideological politics of the Bush Administration 
that sacrifice program effectiveness.  Hunter, Daily Badger, 03-10-05  
faith-based program  political legitimation     commitment to ideological 
rigor over science   (Lexis)
Bush Admin goes further, preventing funding distibution to groups that are 
ambiguous about sex workers, alienating victims and furthering the spread of 
the disease   Dhar 05/27/05  Penny Saunders  Network of Sex Work Projects  
www.ipsnews.net/news/asp?idnews=28848
programs in SQ are missionary imperialism front    Kaplan 04  Nation  
12/20/04  "vivid display"  unilateralism  corporatism

The USFG should provide Funding as requested to NGOs operating in the PRC 
tha tprovide comprehensive sex education.  The USFG will diplomatically 
request that the PRC discontinue harassment of persons involved in NGOs 
providing comprehensive sex education.  Intent







II  PERSONS WITH AIDS
Migrant sex worders are the key risk group, moving throughout the country 
impossible to track as they are completely outside of the existing social 
safety net  Gill 02 www.csis.org/hill/ts020909gill.pdf  other sexual 
partners  HIV/AIDS
Frost 10/20/03  CECC Haering  "well-tolerated"  "side effects"
program dropouts lead to drug resistance   widespread development
these mutations are untreatable  Gill 04 Hearing before Subcom on Aisa nd 
the Pacific, HIV/AIDS in Asia 7/21/04  "substandard quality"
grassroots ortganizaations hampered by homophobia.  Threat to economic 
wellbeing  Shapiro 05 www/365gay.com/newscon05/06/061505china.htm   
beatrings that Chinese govt  1000s affected by HIV.  Antiobescenity  100,000 
children alone  Sara Davis  "human rights watch"

US leadership key to preventing crisis  Cravero  04  HIV/AIDS in Asia 
mounting an effective global response  concerted action  explosion of HIV on 
the continent  tipping point  US and other key doners  US long and 
productive relationship

III  Organization competency
Grassroots orgs exist and are able to significantly abate discrimination and 
disease.  The US should provide resources for NGOs in China.  The spirit is 
willing, the pocket book is weak  Wan Yanhai   
www.csis.org/hill/ts020909gill.pdf 02  HIV AIDS  Chinese politics  
preventing discrimination  activities  lack resources
US support for comp sex ed NGOs is effective  Cravero in HIV/AIDS in Asia 
hearing 7/21/05 04  necessary leadership and resources  nearly 100,000 per 
year
success in China will spur programs in Russia and India Gill Morrison and 
Thompson 04  "Defusing China's Time Bomb"  Reports of the CSIS delegation to 
China, 4-18-04  CSIS Website, p. 6  historic opportunity.  Innovative US 
policies and support to China on HIV/AIDS will contribute significantly to 
the formulation of a "Second Wave" strategy  generalized epidemic
our ethical and political action is undecidable.  We affirm it as part of 
our ethical obligation to an unfinished world of open-ness.  Simply stepping 
entirely outside the system is doomed to failure . Undecidable politics has 
unique transgressive possibilities as is opens the system to critique while 
simultaneously engaging it.  Newman 03 Philosophy and Social Criticism, 27:3 
  deconstruction  outside is complex and surprising.  Absolute 
transgression.  Cancel itself out.  Exclude its other.  Thoroughly ethical 
gesture.  Ethics of alterity
We should coalesce political approaches with ethical and political 
questions.  Political decisions are unavoidable, such decisions can be used 
as an opening for new modes of thought  Derrida, NEGOTIATIONS 02 pp. 309-311 
  political and ethical  moment at which one can act.  Space of decision 
irreducible  being with other  opening  ethical and the political
NGOs bring wider political and social chagne to China  Nieburg, Tstiony 
before CECC  10/20/03   health workers, teachers, parents, and as many 
others as possible  goal will be decision-making  strong emphasis on 
increasing HIV awareness
NGOs develop civil society in China   Gill 04  HIV/AIDS in Asia  7/21/04need 
to work more  civil society in China  funding and political encouragement.  
As well as drug users
regional efforts are most important  Cravero 04   HIV/AIDS in Asia 7/21/04   
religious organizations, regional AIDS efforts  strong ties to Asia  AIDS 
effort  multiministerial level  strengthen poltiical and civil society.  
Beyond the national governments to a broad, multicultural response



Missouri State BoMa
I.  NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND

China's One Child Policy was officially adopted as law to codify the policy. 
  Center for Reproductive rights  www.crip.org/ww_asia_1child.html    "Law 
on Population and Family planningsterilizations rampant.  Women are forced
this policy is the most pervasive soruce of human rights violation in China. 
  Forbed aobrtions and sterializations are rampant.  The new law makes 
policy more compulsive.  LRF www.laogai.org/news/newsdetail.php?id=2218  Wu  
Kumar  Aird
baby girls are abandoned and forced into orphanages that resemble death 
camps SCMP 05, reprinted in World Press Review, 9/95, p. 39  "coerced 
aobritions"  orphanage.  Problem will get worse  arm wrestle  urine 
excrement  only stimulation  pharmacy full of medicine  no children to be 
seen  swaddling  urine and feces
One Child Policy reprsents a form of institutional discrimination against 
women.  It makes women expendable and results in infanticide   xx female 
children  necessary evil    Hansel 02  11 S. Cal Rev L & Women Studies 369  
lack of foresight OCP
this discrimination manifests itself in devastation of repro freedom.  The 
one child policy represents an ongoing genocide.  Common practices include 
forced or coerced abortions and sterilizations Moore 99  
www.cato.org/dailys/05-25-99.html  "population control fanatics" ecological 
responsibility  8th or 9th term of pregnancy.  Too many
repro freedom necessary for survival Alexander Sanger, BEYOND CHOICE, p. 72, 
04  "reproductive freedom. . . Ensure the survival of humanity."
genocide must be prevented at all costs. It's mechanistic and corporate 
nature make it morally worse than extinction Lang 85, The Philosophical 
Forum, vol 16, nos. 1-2, Winter 84-85  "A number of further questions. . . 
Larger corporate act."
human rights is the ultimate impact.  It is prerequisite to all human action 
and agency.  The only reason the government exists is to protec them.   
Gewirth 82, HUMAN RIGHTS, p. 3   "The primary thesis of the following 
essays. . . General needs of human agency."

II SEXUAL SLAVERY
trafficking results from shortage of women Hansel 02  11 S. Cal. Rev of Law 
and Women's Studies 369   "Shortage of women"   "shelling out money"
iimpact is loss of humanity.Trafficking represents a gruesome manifestation 
of  Modern day slavery Trapalis 02 32 Golden Gate U Law Review 207     human 
rights violations  form of gender discrimination
dehumanizaiton outweighs nuclear war and environmental destruction.  Makes 
them inevitable  David Berube, June-July 97  
www.cla.sc.edu/ENGL/faculty/berube/prolong.htm dehumanization  genocide  
justified  "Nanotechnological Prolongevity:  The Down Side."  "eugenics and 
Nazi racial science"
do not disregard impacts in the face of negative disads.  To label the 
status quo as peaceful denies the sexual horror inflicted on women through 
Trafficking  Ray 97, 46 American University Law Review 793   "reconsider our 
understanding of what constitutes "war"" imprisoned slavery  should be 
questioned  sexual harassment  metaphorical sense  war against poverty  not 
metaphorical  even ownership is communicated  understanding  male 
perpetrator of violence

PLAN: USFG should substantially increase diplomatic and economic pressure on 
the PRC by making a PUBLIC DECLARATION that it will REVOKE PERMANENT NTR 
from the PRC and bar all trade with the PRC until the PRC overturns its Law 
on Population and Family Planning, better known as the ONE-CHILD POLICY.  We 
will clarify.
clarity

Passivity helps evil flourish.  Denial of the responsibility to act in the 
face of evil renders life meaningless and self-destructive Gordon and Gordon 
95  SARTRE AND EVIL:  GUIDELINES FOR A STRUGGLE, p. 162  "consequently, what 
constitutes a passive person's mode of existence. . . Praxis that flees the 
responsibility of praxis. . . ever promise you a rose garden?" slavery
pressure on China over HR leads to reform.  Collapse of Soviet Union proves  
Roger Fisher, 05, Federal News Service, July 27 (Lexis)  "rather jarring 
assertion"   regime  communist  human rights  legitimacy
Engagement makes human rights conditions worse.  Only increased pressure 
results in reform.  Alan Keyes, MSNBC Transcript, 2-21-02  FDCHeMedia 
(lexis)   "Chinese repression"    no change for better or worse.
China responds to US pressure in the area of reproductive rights Marion 
Baillot, 12-24-04, Washington Times   "I*n 2002, under US pressure, China 
passed a new population and family palnning law to standardize birth-control 
policies"
China will say yes.  Their desire to be integrated into the global trading 
market makes them much more willing to make concessions on human rights than 
they have been in the past.  Chris Lin, 03, 4 Asian-Pacific Law & Policy 
Journal, Summer,    "harbinger of a new age"  "respectable member of the 
international community"
trade sanctions can cripple survival of an economy.  This makes sanctions 
the best way to achieve human rights reforms.  Stirling 96, 11 American 
University Journal of International Law and Policy 1   "most effective 
mechanism for the enforcement of human rights"
US is key -- no other country can take the lead   D'Agostino  04, 
www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?art_id=26667,  "Arthur Dewey"  "forced 
abortion" "violation of human rights"
We are not morally accountable for actions of intervening actors  Gewirth 
02, HUMAN RIGHTS, pp. 229-230   "An example of this principle. . . Her 
correlative right remains absolute"  [terrorism example}
The effectiveness of our confrontation with evil is irrelevant.  exposing 
the problem is important Gordon and Gordon 95, SARTRE AND EVIL:  GUIDELINES 
FOR A STRUGGLE, p. 13  "Such a public response to evil. . . Generates 
pleasure and enjoyment."
US has tremendous economic leverage over China.  We must resist extending 
this human rights nightmare through trade.  Nova 01 
www.ncpa.org/bothside/krt/krt111899b.html    economic leverage  democracy   
bankruptcy of this approach
claims of Westernization, universalization, and colonialism serves as an ad 
hominem attack that devalues womens experience globally.  The concept of 
women's rights isn't inherently Westsern.  Nussbaum 00, 36 Idaho Law Review 
379     "the charge of 'Westernizing" looks like a shady political 
stratagem. . . systematic social hierarchies of all kinds"



Baylor CM Affirmative


I.  Bush has sanctioned Chinese companies on 60 separate occasions over 
their continued  WMD-related cooperationand assistance to Iran   
Rademaker,March 11, 2005, DISARMAMENT DOCUMENTATION 
www.acronym.org.uk/docs/0503/doc04.htm   our longstanding rpactice of 
imposing sanctions agianst Chinese entities
Unfortuantely, the current US nonprolif regime toward china is failing for 2 
reasons  a. only targets subsidiary corporations, but not the parent 
companies, the huge state-run conglomerates;  b.  Economic penalties imposed 
are not strong enough.  Milhollin , March 10, 05 
www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/testimonies/2005/US-China-comm-031005.htm   
giant loophole
PLAN;  states resolution in area of weaopns nonproliferation by  
IMPLEMENTING NEW ECON SANCTIONS against the following "parent" companies and 
their subsidiaries to end their proliferation activities:  China North 
Industries Group, Sinopec, Sinosteel, and China Aviation Industry 
Corporations 1 & 2

1.  IRAN
Sce1.  Israel.  A.  Chinese companies are continuing to share advanced wMD 
technology and expertise with Iran (and several other nations) despite the 
current US sanctions regime.  Rademaker, 3-11/-5  
www.acronym.org.uk/docs/0503/doc04.htm  nuclear establishments
iran is on the brink of producing nuclear weapons; newly elected hardline 
president Ahmadinejad ahs vowed to pursue nuclearization as soon as possible 
  LA Times  6/26/05  Nexis  "axis of evil"  "move ahead at full speed
c.  Iran will erach point of no return within 6 months Washington Times 
5/24/ 05 washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050524-043712-5381r.htm   "point 
of no return"  nuclear bomb
D.  Iran has made no secret of its paln to launch Nuc attacks against Israel 
Beres, 4-6-05  WORLDNET DAILY.com "Lake Michigan"  treaty obligation  
first-strike attacks
E.  Iranian nuclear attack on Israel would kill millions.  It would 
annihilate the entire country Beres 05 worldnet daily.com   "Iranian nuclear 
attack"  human rights  nuclear war

2.   Turkey
a.  Nuclearization of Iran sparks Turkish nationalism Feiser 1-28-05 
www.pinr.com/report.php?ac+view_report&report_id=261&language_id=1  
"Turkey's internal political dimensions" military nationalism
B.  Turkey is a pivot state.  A Nationalist foreign policy would cy 
counterproductive to US interests in Caspian region Larrabee and Lesser  03  
http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1612   source of instability  "pivot 
state"
C. Turkey critical to prevent Russian expansionism into Caspian  Khalilzad 
Lesser and Larrabee, 00  http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1241   
"Russian expansion in the Caspian Basin"
D.  Russian expansionsim causes nuc war Cohen 1/25/96  Heritage Backgrounder 
#1065    "reconstituted Russian empire"

II   PAKISTAN
A.  China will increase its nuclear and missile assistance to Pakistan 
despite the repeated imposition of sanctions    Malik 4-29-04  China Brief  
www.jamestown.org     "countervail its perceived rivals and enemies"
B.  Continue Sino-Pakistan Nuclear coop risks war between India and Pakistan 
  Agence France Press 4-12-05   "Pakistan and China"  "chasma nuclear power 
plant"
C.  nuc war between India and Pakistan would kill 12 million people and 
destroy the entire Indian subcontinent  
www.endyorks.gn.apc.org/news/articles/asia/nuclearfear.htm Shankar & 
McCarthy 02  New York Times May 28    "full-scale nuclear exchange"

III.  TERRORISM
A.  Iran and Pakistan are the most likely sources for terrorists to acquire 
the means to strike the US with nuclear weapons Cohen 5-20-05 heritage 
Backgrounder 1854  heritage.org  "radical islamists  military and 
intelligence services  Pakistan
B.  An act of nuc terrorism would be devastating.  It is the overwhelming 
policy concern  Chesney 97  Loyola of LA International and Comparative Law 
Journal 20:29  November, lexis   "human suffering resulting from a 
detonation"

IV PROLIFERATION DIPLOMACY
A.  US proliferation credibiliyt is weak because of the soft appraoch to 
Iranian nuclear prolif  Levi 04  
www.iranwatch.org/privateviews/Brookings/perspex-brookings-emptywords-012104.htm 
    concessionary     offering a mechanism
B. lack of action to halt Paklstani proliferation has damaged nonprolif 
credibiliyt and counterterrorism  Nolan, 04  www.fpa.org  2/12   "risky 
approach toward Pakistan"
C.  US proliferation credibility key to halt global proliferation of nuclear 
wapons Japan Times 7-4-05    "population centers"  "international-control 
management"

ob 2  SOLVENCY -- tension descending
A.  Redirecting US economic sanctions to target Chinese parent companies 
will solve.  The Chinese would have enormous economic incentives to comply 
China is extremely vulnerable to US economic leverage while its market 
economy is still developing Milhollin 05 
www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/testimonies/2005/US-China-comm-031005.htm    
vulnerable to economic pressure
B.  Your PIC doesn't begin to sovle the case.  A combination of diplomacy 
and tough sanctions when needed is the best way to curb Chinese 
proliferation  Rademaker 05  www.acronym.org.uk/docs/0503/doc04.htm   
thinking carefully about the issues  sustained dialogue
C.  There is no hope of preventing nuc prolif and nuc terrorism without 
Chinese cooperation Rademaker 05  see above   "rogue states prepared to uose 
them"
D.  Plan is the only way to both gain  gains Chines compliance in ending its 
prolif activities and to restore US nonprolif credibility  Milhollin 05 
economy is the most powerful leverage we have  
www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/editorials/2005/Sinopec-oped-040705.htm  
laxity on our part  Sinosteel
Current US policy awards Chinese prolif.  Sanctioning Sinopec itself solves 
prolif to Iran  Kapisthalam 3-11-05   Asia Times   "Trade and Development 
Agency"  "winks at blatant Chinese proliferation"





From frappier  Sun Sep 18 14:33:34 2005
From: frappier (Frappier, Glen)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:33:34 -0700
Subject: [eDebate] Gonzaga - Octa Results and Quarter Pairings
Message-ID: <36AE85DCADCA72409DD873C729D1AB9709BE93BD@gem.gonzaga.edu>

For those of you following at home....
 
Cal BW def. Puget Sound CS  3-0
Southern Cal BI def. Cal GR 2-1
Cal LS def. Southern Cal LN 2-1
Gonzaga BH def. Fullerton MM 2-1
Idaho State DY def. Southern Cal JS 3-0
Redlands SZ def. Richmond SS 3-0
Whitman BM def. North Texas CS  2-1
Whitman SS def. Idaho State BK 3-0
 
Quarters
 
Cal BW   vs.  Gonzaga BH     Matheson   Symonds   Stables
Cal LS    vs.   Southern Cal BI  Schueler  Southworth  Hanson
Idaho State DY  vs.   Whitman BM   Ward  Maurer  Russell
Whitman SS   vs.  Redlands SZ   Ceren   Foy   Patel
 
 
More later as the story develops...
 
 




From jakethompsondebate  Sun Sep 18 16:03:04 2005
From: jakethompsondebate (jacob thompson)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:03:04 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] Neg alphabetized UNI casebook post round 6
Message-ID: <BAY107-F168167B31EEE56408BDA79C5930@phx.gbl>

Negative Team: Augie BS vs. Affirmative Team: MO State JW

On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation

China has high rates of investment ? reuters aug. 15, 2005 ?China, july 
investment higher?

Sanctions cause capital flight ? Jiang 2001 ? The Chinese National Defense 
University Country Economic sanctions

Econ pressure = sanctions
Ware 2004
Seattle Journal For Social Justice Fall 2003
?Rule of force or rule of law??

Pressure Spec

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Relations/Trade War DA
Zoellick Incr Relations Now ? Newsweek 2005

Trade war between U.S.-China --> Shooting war
Liv 2005 ?Trade wars can lead to shooting war?

Human Rights DA
China seeking cooperation w/ U.S. ? Kissinger 2005
Washington Post, June 13

Human rights progress being made now ? work with China is key
Dalphino 99
www.brookings.edu/comm/policybriefs/pb50.htm


CP:
USFG will make IPR compliance a conditions for being granted ?Market 
economy? status.

Framing the aff as a market economy issue derails protectionism in U.S. ? 
Green 2004

Baylor JT Neg Vs. MTCR



Baylor CM Negative

Counterplan ? Economic NOT diplomatic
Selective Diplomacy/Terrorism DA

Diplomatic Resources focused on Terrorism ? Smith 2005 ? Congressional, 
April 14
?public diplomacy?adequate funding?

Diplomatic pressure = state department
State Dept. Bureaus of Public affairs May 25, 2005
?state department leads?trade to nuclear weapons.?

New Diplomacy trades off with terrorism
Lugar March 18, 2003 FNS, ?state department has been starved?

Strong diplomacy key to prevent terrorism
Peterson 2002 ? Foreign Affairs sept./oct.
?public diplomacy?cooperation of foreign nations?

Terrorism = extinction
MacKinnon May 5, 2005 Washington Times
?terrorists who seek to obliterate the U.S.?

CONCORDIA FF Negative

International Relations K:

Economic discourse constructs public-private dichotomy privileging one 
perspective over others ? Callan & Hyman 2004 Post-Colonialism Meets 
Economics p. 118-9
Underside exploration is exploitation Space Exploration exploits space but 
people two
Angela Burr 2001 
http://www-ssg.sr.unh.edu/preceptorial/Summaries_2001/summary9_2001.html
Gatekeepers of IR include many voices so long as those voices are complicit 
with conventional nature of politics
Bleiker Alternatives Vol. 22 p. 78
Aff?s use of autonomous rational actor forecloses any possible alternative 
analysis
It?s nice to fool mother nature ? Feminine App to Int?l Law  - Soynerd & 
Little
(Gender/FEM IR ? Tickner, Peterson & Runyan)

Photos of Sudanese children consumed ? we become the perfect representation 
of violence ? the local was obscured and violent colonialism fed ? Kleinzmen 
96 ? Daedalus

Violence becomes new pornography suffering = entertainment, violence becomes 
rationalized
Bruckner & Bruckner 1986 ? tears of the Whiteman: compassion as contempt

Proliferation discourse precludes alternate Framing naturalizing problematic 
action ? Mutimer 2000 ?The Weapon State? p. 62, 156-7

ALTERNATIVE TO K ? Advocate ?sender analysis? and a negative ballot


EMPORIA CR vs. Missouri State (MTCR)

Marxism K

Joel Kovel 2002  The Enemy of Nature p. 5-7
Joshua urlantzick Sept. 16, 2004 ?Move over confucious? The New Republic 
online ? lexis
Marta Harnecker 2000 (www.dsp.org.au/links/back/issue16/harnecker.html
Istvan Meszaros 2001 Socialism or barbarism: from the American century to 
the crossroads
Kansas BL vs. Concordia

Nationalism DA

Pressure = nationalism and x?s global free trade
Elizabeth Economy the Blatimore Sun Dec. 11, 2003

Free Trade solves lots of stuff
Lampton ? The Nixon Center ?US-China relations in Post-September 11) 2002

Economy
Economic pressure on china collapses economy  Krysten cRAWFORD ? june 24, 05 
?Beware of the fixin China debate?
Mead 92 ? war

Diplomacy DA
Pressure china causes backlash ? terrorism, prolif, arms sales, the 
environment YU 2003
Cardozo Law Review ? November ?the Copyright divide?
China cooperating with US now ? alternative is extinction
Zhou Wenzhong Feb. 7 2002 http://www.fmprc.gov.en/eng/wjdt/zyjh/tb4286.htm



Kansas Neg vs. Miami Aff

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:
ASPEC
Extra T
XO CP
Executive Orders allow the president to enact policy while avoiding the 
political process of legislation. Philip Cooper, By Order of the President: 
The Use and Abuse of Executive Direct Action p. 58-59 ?executive orders are 
often used because?provide orders generated elsewhere?

Executive orders are essential to increasing and projecting presidential 
power. Todd Graziano, Texas Review of Law and Politics, Spring 2001. ?a 
proper understanding of a presidents?in the world?

Congressional encroachment in foreign policy constrains presidential power. 
Casper Weinberger The Fettered Presidency :Legal Constraints on the 
Executive Branch pg 97  ?with this in mind?to survive?

Executive order has force of law. Philip Cooper, By Order of the President: 
The Use and Abuse of Executive Direct Action p21 ?in the most general 
sense?force of law?

Presidential power is essential to US leadership in solving ethnic conflicts 
and AIDS. The Atlanta Journal and Constitution January 23, 2000. ?as 
president Clinton?that elaborates on the theme?

AIDs threatens to kill tens of millions. Avert.org 2005. 
www.avert.org/aafrica.htm  ?sub-saharan Africa?economy in general?

The Presidents influence over budget, agencies and other issues through XO 
has wide impacts. Kenneth Mayer With the stroke of a pen-executive orders 
and presidential power? ?but the institutional?executive branch?
Neither congress or the courts overturn executive orders. CNN.com March 29, 
2005. www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/29/ace.up.sleeve/index.html ?critics 
of executive order...factor of four?

Turn- the perm would lead to conflicts of interest and pork barrel politics 
killing solvency. Steven Calabresi, Arkansas Law Review 1995. ?in sum, the 
anti-unitarian?of the laws?

Turn- Strong presidential powers is key to terrorism, nuclear war, and 
preserve national security. Thomas Cronin and Michael Genovese The Pradoxes 
of the American Presidency ?a central question?of various coalitions?

No impact-Balance of powers is impossible to achieve. Kenneth Mayer With the 
stroke of a pen-executive orders and presidential power ?joseph story, in 
his?he cannot control?


Politics
Indian Nuclear cooperation will pass, but bush?s political capital is key. 
The Seattle Times, August 2, 2005. ?us officials are optimistic?supporting 
the accord?

Anti Taiwan policies require massive political capital. The Scotsman, April 
28, 2001. ?a recent draft ?back in the bank

Nuclear cooperation is key to us-indian relations. India Today, August 1, 
2005. ?the meeting would later?to do so?

This solves Taiwan war (analytical)

American Exceptionalism K
Link-Affirmative call to use economic pressure on china is rooted in 
American Exceptionalism. Annita Lysikatou, November 28, 1999. 
www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/smith/lysikatou.htm. ?the united 
states has much to gain?break open foreign markets?

Impact- The discursive construction of china is based on the flawed us self 
image of exceptionalism guarentteing conflict with china and a flawed 
epistemological approach to IR which must be rejected- minor changes fail.

Alternative text: Vote Neg- This refusal to accept the aff?s epistemology is 
crucial to opening up new ways of debating china.
The President of America should issue and executive order giving direct 
conditional positive support and financing to achieve an agreed framework of 
declatory statements and of other confidence-building measure.











Miami GV (Neg) vs. MO State MoWh (Aff)
T Must be Pressure
T Direct on China not on Parent Companies
Relations
Politics
c/p
Orientalism Kritik
Case

Wichita State CS (Aff) vs. Miami MW (Neg)
Relations
Constructions of Evil (Rape adv.)
Threat Construction cards (Genocide adv.)
Politics (Kicked in 2NC)
Chemical Industries Adv T/O
C/P
Nationalism
Biz Con

1. Sino-US Relations
new Dialogue starting between Us and China?Now is a crucial moment
Taiwan press 11 Aug 05 BBC monitoring International Reports Aug. 11th 2005
?The first round of?stage in the future?

Steps can counter act current negative trends in Sino-US relations.
Bonnie Glaser, CSIS Fellow, Comparitive Connections, July 2005 
http://www.csis.org/pacfor/ccejournal.html#usc
?It is premature to?Economic Cooperation summit.

Yuan Peng, China Visiting Fellow, The brooking institute, The Taiwan issue 
in the context of new sino-US strategic cooperation, Summer 2004, pg. 24
?Although Japanese remilitarization?.tactical and temporary?

Good relations key to peace in asia
Michael D. Swaine, Rand Corp., Foreign Affairs, March 2004-April 2004 pg. LN
?Moreover, the maintenance of?.war on terrorism

Relations key to save billions of lives
Dennis Roy, Survival Spring 2000 pg. 76
?A working relationship with?.related political environment?

2. Nationalism
Chinese politics are at a strategic crossroads
China reform Monitor March 7th, 2005 American foreign Policy Council 
http://www.afpc.org/crm/crm/580.shtml
?The people?s republic of China?.share that understanding?

Link?Pressure will increase the risk of a nationalist uprising
Suisheng Zhao, Associate Prof. U. of Denver, Federal News Service December 
7th 2004
?In terms of American influence?.of external pressure?

Rising nationalism will increase the risk china will invade Taiwan
Stephen J. Flanagan, Director, Institute for national strategic studies, 
National Defense University, The people liberation Army and China in 
Transition, August 2003 pg. 9
?Li Contends that the PLA?.national security agenda.?

A US-China war over Taiwan will go nuclear
The strait times (Singapore) June 25th, 2000
?The doomsday scenario?to the Chinese press?

3. Case
Positive approaches work better than negative sanctions
David Cortright, ?The price of peace: Incentives and International Conflict 
Prevention? 1997,
?Perhaps the greatest?.to foster cooperation?

Engagement is preferable to Coercion because sanctions for human rights have 
a poor track record
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?Finally, the counter-productive?.or deployed coercion.?

Economic pressure not only fails but it sometimes lead to worsening domestic 
conditions on China
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?The question of effectiveness?..ameliorate washington?s concerns

The MFN debate proves economic pressure actually creates disincentives for 
china to cooperate with US.
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?In the end, the US threat?.human rights abuses?

Sanctions have a very low success rate?30% at best
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?Much has been written?.1-2%?

Actual Sanctions have a much lower success rate then threatened sanctions
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?A few studies?.out of our analyses?

4. Politics: Iran Cut and Run

Bush is on an upswing after Katrina
The Christian Science Monitor, Sept. 14th, 2005
?Now there are inklings?.has been minimal?

Bush needs to keep high approval rating to prevent a cut and run
The NY Times Sept 11th, 2005
?How that collapse?publicly in July?

A cut and run causes war in the middle east
The Independent April 10th, 2004 Pg. LN
?Option:Cut and Run?.or Islamic rule?


This causes global nuclear exchange
Steinbach, 2002 
http://wagingpeace.org/articles/0203/0331steinbachisraeli.htm
Meanwhile, the existence?.a world conflagaration?

Michigan JV neg vs. Capital RS

Culture K:
Authenticity and homogeneity --> boundary on identity ? Munn 2000, Critical 
Horizons Vol. 1, Iss. 2
Search for subject --> genocide ? Bellman 2004 
http://gseweb.harvard.edu~t656_web/peace/bamc_pages,?politics,culture,media,andlead?
Culture as narrative form ? Munn alternative

Relations DA
Relations Incr ? SC Morn Post 9-15-05
Pressure x?s coop on N. Korea ? USA Today 3-20-05
MPX ? coop key to northe korea ? mead 6-19-05 LA Times
War --> Conflict Choi 2002 ? www.kimsoft.com/2002/nk_nuke5.html

MO State BR (Neg) vs. Wayne State BR (Aff)
ASPEC
T Diplomatic
Russia/China
	Aff. Bremmer Evidence?Non-Unique ***Good Card***
Case Solvency-Util/Consequentialism (AT: Their Genocide Adv./ Their ontology 
argument)
C/P?Do dip pressure only
Aff. Reeve evidence?Must have econ pressure to get China to change policy on 
Sudan
Euro Shift

1. T Diplomatic
?diplomacy is the employment of tact to gain strategic advantage, one set of 
tools being the phrasing of statements in a non-confrontational, or social 
manner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/diplomatic

Violation Direct use of force in plan text violates the resolution?imposing 
tariffs, quotas, or any other form of a sanction on China is not diplomatic 
in nature


2. Russia/China DA
Chian and Russia are moving closer together showing increased relation and 
cooperation
Wanjun and Yun 05 (Liu and Gao, China Daily ?Sino-Russian Relations 
Blossom,? August 3rd, http://english.sohu.com/20050803/n226549444.shtml
?Since establishing diplomatic relations?.growth of bilateral ties?

2. In spite of good relations, no full fledged alliance exists between 
Russia and China. Action by the United States is the only way to make this 
possible
Gilbert Rozman, Prof of Scociology at Princeton, Orbis, Volume 44, Issue 4 
Autumn 2000, Pages 541-555 online journal
?Close ties between China and?.possibility deserves scrutiny?

B. Russia and China unite to counter US diplomatic and economic pressure 
against china
Mathipoulos ?98 Margarita, Cooperation of Conflict, pg. 235
?The relation between?America or Europe?

C. Russia/China partnership allows effecting of multiple simultaneous wars 
of distraction culminating in a nuclear conflict
Rahm 02 Julie M, Parameters, ?Russia China, India: A new strategic triangle 
for a new cold war?? Winter pp.87
?Many Scenarios that would?.and regional relations?


3. Dollar DA
If Washington increases pressure on China, China will respond by boycotting 
the dollar by shifting to Euro assets, derailing the dollar
F. William Engdahl 4/24/2005 (Current Concerns, ?Japan and China tensions 
and Washington?s Asia Geopolitics?, 
http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archive/2005/03/20050312.php
?China holds one weapon it?.if the pressure rises?

Dollar Slip will slow down the global economy
Xie 2005 (andy, Global Economic Forum ?Asia/Pacific: Dollar is the Key?, Jan 
4 http://www.morganstanley.com/GEFdata/digests/20050104-tue.html
?When the dollar bottoms?.economy would follow

This causes a huge war and turns case
Lopez 1998 (Bernardo V., Buisness World ?Global recession phase two: 
Catastrophic?, 9/10)
?What would it be?.its ways internationally?


4. Hardliners Turn
Sanctions will allow monopolies of power to reinforce their 
ideologies?hardliners would be propped up.
James A. Dorn, Cato Journal ?Trade and Human Rights: The Case of China? 1996 
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-5.html
?Economic Sanctions may be?for domestic problems

Economic sanctions props up Hardliners
James A. Dorn, Cato Journal ?Trade and Human Rights: The Case of China? 1996 
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-5.html ?The biggest obstacle?.to 
overthrow them?

Sanctions eliminate private firms in China, solidifying political 
dictatorship
James A. Dorn, Cato Journal ?Trade and Human Rights: The Case of China? 1996 
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-5.html ?Directors of China?s 
state-owned?harsh political dictatorship?


AT: Sanctions
Sanctions restrict freedoms, set a dangerous trade precedent, and do not 
accomplish their desired results
Stuart Anderson (I was not able to get the rest of the cite)


5. Saudia Arabia DA
Current State department focus is on Saudi?s transition to a new king
M. Ghazanfar Ali Khan. Arab New Staff Writer ?More Pledge Allegiance to the 
New King? Arab News The Middle East?s Leading English Language Daily Google 
News, August 5th, 2005
?State department spokesman?.Casey Said?

US diplomacy is focusing on Saudi?s democratic reform.
Political Capital is finite?the plan distracts US Focus.
Terry Anderson and J. Bishop Grewell ?The Greening of Foreign Policy?PERC 
Policy Series, 2002 www.perc.org/pdf/ps20.pdf

Faiure of US diplomacy risks Saudi regime collapse
Gerald Posner, author of ?Secrets of the kingdom: The inside story of the 
secret Saudi-U.S. Connection? The NY Times, The Kingdom and the Power August 
2, 2005 Lexis)
?These are not the?.generation of royals?

Collapse of the House of Saud causes World War 3
Paul Lloyd, The advertiser ?Saudi Arabia?s ruling family key to stability? 
June 26th, 2004 Lexis)
?The Fall of the house?.world war 3?



Negative Team: NIU PW vs. Affirmative Team: Missouri State KO

On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation


Econ pressure = sanctions
Increase = make bigger

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Chinese Nationalism DA
Contained Now ? Sutter 2005
Pressure increases nationalism ? qingguo 2005
Nationalism --> CCP takeover ? dingxin 2002
Natlism --> war over Taiwan

Relations (ADI Version)

Ban all restrictions on trade to china.
UMKC FR Negative vs. Affirmative Team: Oklahoma JL

On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation

Monolithic representations of Capitalism BAD ? Gibson-Graham 1996

Pressure = sanctions

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:

Ted Galen Carpenter ? 2003
http://www.cato.org/dailys/01-04-03.html


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Aff begins with wrong question of ?policy action? we should take towards 
challenge.  We must challenge the premise of the US needing to change China 
and discuss these two countries in their own terms which will --> awareness 
better political decisions.
Weston & Jensen 2000 ?China beyond the headlines?

Held together by assumptions that China is inherently in need of help to fix 
their primitive culture.  This mentality forecloses any possibility for real 
dialogue with what we consider china.
?Legal Orientalism?  Michigan Law Review Vol. 101:179

When we create China as a belligerent aggressor ? it?s a self-fulfilling 
prophecy.  This thinking closes off althernative understandings of China --> 
cycle of fear oppression
Morgan 2004 ? ?Distinguishing truth, knowledge and belief? Modern China, 
Vol. 30, July

Policy not escape western knowledge assumption that is superior to China.  
US Formulates IR policy by creating west\east distinction.  This --> 
divisions, and threatens survival ? SAID Orientalism 1978 p. 44

Alto ? Get beyond this view ? listen to the voice of the other.  People in 
China have voices ? breaks down hierarchy
Tongxi 1988 ? The Myth of the Other?, Critical Inquiry, Vol. 15, Autumn
UT Dallas Negative

BACKCHANNEL CP:

Eric Brahm ? 2003 www.beyondintractability.or/m/diplomacy--intro.jsp
Ralph Cossa 2000 ? www.csis.org/pacfor/annual/specialMay2000.pdf
?Long term visions of regional security: US and China? ? May
Conflict Research Consortium 1998 
www.colorado.edu/conflict/peace/treatment/track1.htm
John McDonald 1991 ? ?Further explanation of track two diplomacy? Timing the 
de-escalation of international conflicts in Kriedberg & Thorson 1991 ed.
Noher & McDonald 1996 ? usis F.P. journals ? 
http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itps/1296/ijpe/pj19mcdo.htm
www.intractableconflict.org/m/track1_diplomacy.jsp
susan Allen nan 2003
?track 1 diplomacy?

Negative Team: Wayne ET
Vs. Affirmative Team: Missouri State MeWa

Calc Thoughts:
Nazism means must reject aff args ? Zizek
Focus on ontology = genocide inevitable

Trafficking:
Statistics flawed ? it?s voluntary
Plan used to deny women asylum
Sex trafficking laws bad; corrupt laws --> sex trade


ASPEC

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

WTO Good DA

Politics:
India won?t confront Iran now
Increase pressure means B gets agenda
B?s agenda collapses NPT
Prolif leads to indirect NW, regional conflicts

Chinese nationalism DA

China Bashing/Dollar DA (Bond Sell-off scenario)

Consult China (2NC says China will say ?no?)

Wayne State MS (Neg) vs. UMKC FR (Aff.)
1NC Strat
T pressure
T E and Dip Pressure
Global Violence (we separate our selves from the global harms)
Subjugated Knowledge (Scott ?92)
Politics (NPT/Nuclear Tech)
C/P?Just use dip pressure
Framework (Must defend state action of increase econ and dip pressure) 
(Burk/Iverson ?99) (Mitchell ?00)
Case (s)

1. Politics DA
Bush lacks sufficient congressional support to pass the Indian nuclear deal 
in status quo
Lawrence j. Korb, an assistant secretary of defense during the Reagan admin. 
And Peter Ogden are with the center for American process The Washington Post 
August 3 2005
?The Bush Administration?.of its rewards?

Links?Increase pressure on the PRC will increase congressional support for 
Bush?s agenda
Mitton, US Bureau Chief, The Straits Times (Singapore) Sept. 3, 2005
?It would be an exaggeration?China over Taiwan?

Congressional passage of the Indian nuclear deal will collapse the NPT and 
spark a global arms race.
Sacramento Bee July 23, 2005
?Even so, the?that more difficult?


2. Kritik of Experience/Narratives/Subjugated Knowledge

Link: Exposing subjugated histories, documenting the other, or using 
narratives rests on the authority of experience
Scott 92 (Joan, ?Experience,? Feminists Theorize the political, Ed. Judith 
Butler & Joan Scott pg. 24
?This kind of communication?his or her texts?

This is problematic because appeals to experience weakens critical thrust of 
the histories of difference, reaffirms the epistemological frame of 
hegemonic history, naturalizes difference, displaces resistance outside of 
discourse and decontextualizes agency, and forecloses any critical 
examination of the contructivness of our experience
Scott 92 (Joan, ?Experience,? Feminists Theorize the political, Ed. Judith 
Butler & Joan Scott pg. 24
?Documenting the experience?.act in the world?


3. Famework

Flip-Side Good
Dvbvig and Iverson, of ASU 1999
(Kristen Chisholm and Joel O., 
http://debate.uvm.edu/dybvigiverson1000.html.gjm
?research helps to?.opinions and attitudes?

4. Global Violence Kritik
We are the global violence the affirmative depicts. Viewing violence from 
the standpoint of the state serves to relieve our responsibility for 
violence.
Kappeler, 1995 (Susan, ?The will to violence: The politics of Personal 
Behaviour?)
?Violence what we usually?.of war and violence (pg.8-11)

Politicizing the way we think about violence is a precondition for 
non-violence and avoiding replication.
Kappeler, 1995 (Susan, ?The will to violence: The politics of Personal 
Behaviour?)
?A politics aiming?.of ideology itself (6-7)?


5. C/P
A combination of diplomative pressure and cooperation solves the case
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?What is needed at ?.of state action?

Basing pressure on international law arguments creats the perception that 
the US interest is non-political. The CP is empirically proven
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?Human rights first believes?.within china advocating reform?

Targeted support for legal reform would be accepted by China and leads to 
reform
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?The freasibility of providing?.human rights in China?

Targeting legal reform leads to human rights protection and further 
political reforms
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?these new laws contain?.political environment permits?

6. Case
Turn: Economic sanctions decrease freedom of religion in China
Sirico 99 (Robert, President of the action institute for the study of 
religion and liberty. USA today magazine. September. www.againstbombing.org)
?Some people think?china into a recession?

Turn: Unilateral enforcement of religious freedom is harmful because 1 
undermines better multilat monitouring and enforcement 2 blocks compliance 3 
promotes an us v them mindset that undermines religious freedom.
Danchin, 2002 (Peter G., ?US unilateralism and the International Protetion 
of Religious Freedom: The Multilateral Alternative? Columbia, Journal of 
Transnational Law. Lexis
?The part argues that?.and protect abroad?


Wayne BR NEG vs. Emporia State JM

Silence = Holocaust ? must construct threats
Deterrence Good

Aff must increase both diplomatic and economic pressure ? increase 
pre-existing pressure.  Must increase or FX Topical

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:

Drury & L 2003 ? Diplomatic pressure


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Japan says yes ? key to alliance (Ogawa 99)
Japan supports pressure on Taiwan ? zhongwei 99
Alliance key to hegemony ? Ogawa 99
Khalillzad

POLITICS
Not support  - karb 2005
PRC pressure incr congress support (NPT?) ? mitton 2005
NPT Pass x?s NPT = global arms race ? Sacramento Bee 2005
Global nuclear war

Consult Japan CP ? Japan says ?yes?

USFG should enter into prior binding consultations with the Japanese 
government over the plan.

Wayne State NP (NEG) vs. Kansas KP (MTCR ? Sanction Parent Companies)
5 Off, Solvency

T Diplo Pressure
Diplo press  = demand
Eco press = sanctions
Not SINGULAR action
Pressure = force
Not diplo pressure
Extra t illigit

POLITICS

A. Indian nuclear deal ? not pass in SQ
B. Congress nuclear pandoras box
C. Incr pressure on PRC --> cong support for agenda (strait times 2005)

NATIONALISM

a. Needs political support in China to check nat?lsm
b. Econ pressure --> energy for nationalists
c. Americ pressure stokes nationalism
d. Loss of credit --> massive civil unrest
e. Civil war --> war econ collapse, major war

WTO

A. u.s. committed to WTO in sq (2005)
B. Unilat u.s. trade pressure --> damage to WTO (wto collapse upon 
clarification)
C. Lack WTO dispute resolution = nuclear war

CP (Unconditional)

EU incr pressure on China, penalty ban on exports
EU has significant diplomatic network, more than U.S.
China more willing to work with EU
Europe/China work together to constrain U.S. in multilateral institutions

OB3 Net Benefit

NYT 2005 ? EU needs credibility to incr place in world  coop with China is 
important to place for EU

EU work on China = incr eu power

EU power key to check war in Europe ? daalder 2005

SOLVENCY

Unilateral pressure is not effective

Domestic interest groups mobilized over China ? threats not credible

China failed bid on CNOOC spread into other interests, competing oil

Unilateral sanctions fail (2003)
U.S. sanctions/protectionist policy not work

Pakistan gets nuclear tech from Russia ? 2002

Focus on Tools of warfare is blinding ? not solve (Martin 1996)

Wayne State Politics/Indian Nuclear Deal

India deal unlikely to pass in SQ
The Hindu Sept. 15, 2005
?reaction has the potential of derailing?

India Deal Angers Pakistan --> arms race
Business recorder 9-15-05
?strategic alliance will drastically?
?should seriously consider?

India Pakistan conflict extinction
www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2002/05/00_ong_india-pakistan.htm
?war between the two countries?
?nuclear annihilation?

Bush lacks congressional support for Indian nuclear deal
Korb ? The Washington Post Aug. 3, 2005
?administration?s second error?
?we could end up paying?

Increasing pressure on PRC = congressional support
The Straits Times Sept. 3 05
?the contentious issues?
?appeasing China over Taiwan?

Congress passage of Indian nuclear deal x?s NPT = arms race
Sacramento Bee July 23 2005
?the proposed u.s. sale?
?opening a nuclear Pandora?s box?

NPT collapse impact
www.basicint.org/pubs/Research/2002BB.pdf

Indo-U.S. relations strong w/o deal
Financial Times July 20, 2005
?the broad case for partnership?
?have been possible without?

Nationalism DA

HU Has credibility Now ? Nationalist support is key
Christensen 2005
April 6, 2005
Federal News Service
?Chinese communist party elites?
?placed a premium on protecting their image?

Economic Pressure weakens? hu credibility
Drew Diver 2002, May 8 
http://www.geocities.com/ccparty2002/what_will_hu_do.html
Loss of Credibility --> unrest
Zhao 2002
Exploring Nationalisms in China p. 101
?such predictions, however?
?will spin out of control?

Civil unrest --> regional war
Kane & Serewicz 2001
Parameters Autumn p. 63 ?China?s Hunger?
?If order broke down?
?attacking adjacent countries?
Wichita State CS NEG vs. Kansas CJ (Airplanes)

ORIENTALISM OPERATES THROUGH A SYSTEM OF REPRESENTATION THAT LEGITMATES 
CONTROL OVER THE ORIENT
WU 2004
(Nadine ?The Dynamics of Orientalism and Globalization in the International 
Sex Industry and Human Trafficking? 
www.jmu.edu/writeon/documents/2004/wu.pdf)

A. US IMPERIALISM DIVIDES SOVERIGNTY INTO SIDES OF GOOD AND EVIL THIS ACT 
VICIOUSLY OTHERIZES OUTSIDE THREATS WHILE KEEPING THE US SAFELY ON THE SIDE 
OF THE INNOCENT
Nikhil Pal Singh, professor of history at the University of Washington 2002 
(?The Spectacle of Empire,? The anarchy of empire in the making of US 
culture,Harvard University Press)

B. OUR ALTERNATIVE IS TO UNMASK THE AFFLIATIVE ORDER OF ORIENTALISM
BAYMOUI 2004
(Moustafa ?Our Philogical Home is the Earth? Arab Studies Quarterly, 
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2501/is_4_26/ai_1356293)


A. UNIQUENESS
HU WORKING HARD TO CONSOLIDATE POWER BASE-THESE EFFORTS ARE CRITICAL TO 
MAINTAIN HIS MONOPOLY ON POWER
Willy Lam 1-8-05 Senior China Analyst, Jamestown Foundation H?S CAMPAIGN FOR 
IDEOLOGICAL PURITY AGAISNT THE WEST. 
www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?search=1&volume_id=408&issue_id=3201&article_id_2369108

B. LINK
PRESSURE EXERTED BY THE PLAN SPARKS RENEWED NATIONALISM
COTTAM AND COTTAM 2001
(Martha, a political professor at Washington State University, Richard, 
professor in Pitt?s Department of Political Science, Nationalism and 
Politics: The Political Behavior of Nation States, pg 242)

C. IMPACT
1. A SURGE OF NATIONALISM RISKS CURRENT REGIME SURVIVAL
Record, Jeffrey, winter 01 (Armed Services Committee, professor of strategy 
and international security at the Air War College, senior research fellow at 
the Center for International Strategy, Technology and Policy) ?Thinking 
about China and War? Aerospace Power Journal

2. A BILLION PEOPLE WILL DIE
Sam Renxing, Aug 05 2005, ?The CCP?s Last Ditch Gable: Biological and 
Nuclear War Hundreds of millions of deaths proposed? Epoch Times Staff


WICHITA BL vs. CONCORDIA KK
Spanos

Relations DA
GHG From China Increasing ? U.S. Cinal Coop key
Robert Collier 2005  San Francisco Chronicle p. a1  ?Bush Signs deal to help 
with Clean air in China?
Human Rights pressure decr relations ? Weatherly ?99 ? Discourse on Human 
Rights, Historical & Ideological Perspectives
Warming x?s biodiversity = extinction ? Whittwer 1995

CP ? Exclude diplomatic pressure

Baylor JT Negative vs. MTCR Affirmative

EU Counterplan (China likes EU Better ? AP Sept. 7, 2005
Relations DA
UN Sec. Council Horse Trading DA (Iran Sanctions GOOD)
- Bush = sanction IRAN now (Michael Hedges, 8/10/05 ? Houston Chronicle)
o Destroys Horse Trading ? Colin Lyncy 7/6/01 Washington Post
o Sanctions Key 2 stop Iran nuclear program ? Perkovich and Manzanero May 
2004 ? Nonproliferation and U.S. Leadership Project

Case Studies of U.S. Economic Sanctions: The Chinese, Cuban, and Japan ? 
Askari

DON?T KNOW WHO RAN IT, But we have neg args with cites?. So here you go


WTO DA

The U.S. committed to WTO dispute resolution now
Lapter 2005  4 Chi.-Kent Journal Intell Prop 217
?The WTO?s dispute resolution mechanism?
?Based on the United States? lump-sum?
?within its confines?

U.S. Unilateral Trade pressure undermines Dispute resolution
World Trade Organization, United States ? Sections 301-310 of the Trade Act 
of 1974, Report of the Panel, Dec. 22, 1999

5.284 Japan also states that on the basis of the above points, whereby the 
United States unilaterally applies its own rules and regulations by way of 
the Trade Act of 1974, such action can seriously damage the Dispute 
Settlement Mechanism within the framework of the WTO.

Impact ? Lack of WTO dispute resolution --> nuclear conflict
Copley News Service Dec. 1, 1999
?For decades, many children?
?they should be celebrating it?

Trade War/Chinese Nationalism DA Stuff  (UN-Labelled Negative 
Disclosure?i.e., free cards)

Plan = Trade war
Legruin 2003 ?the Coming Collapse of Free Trade? The New Republic

Destroys WTO
Nicholas Lardy April 25 ?US-China Economic Relations: Implications for U.S. 
Policy?

Nationalism

Maochun Yu 2005 ?Thina?s State control mechanisms and methods China 
Nationalism? Testimony, April 14 before USCHINA economic and Security Review


Thurschwell K:

The claim that the judge has an ethical responsibility to vote aff is mired 
in a fundamental paradox ? Thurschwell 2001 ? in Law/Text/Context 2001, 
5:271

The paradox of ethical action pervades IR.  Language of diplomacy, war, and 
politics is incapable of investing an aff ballot with ethics
[ Derrida, 1995, Gift of Death, trans. By david willis]

The ballot locates ethical justification in an unconditional obligation to 
the other
Thurschwell 2003  - Cardozo Law Review March 2003 24:1193





From jakethompsondebate  Sun Sep 18 16:03:38 2005
From: jakethompsondebate (jacob thompson)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:03:38 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] Neg alphabetized UNI casebook post round 6
Message-ID: <BAY107-F10902400DF566CF9E8B1BEC5930@phx.gbl>

Negative Team: Augie BS vs. Affirmative Team: MO State JW

On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation

China has high rates of investment ? reuters aug. 15, 2005 ?China, july 
investment higher?

Sanctions cause capital flight ? Jiang 2001 ? The Chinese National Defense 
University Country Economic sanctions

Econ pressure = sanctions
Ware 2004
Seattle Journal For Social Justice Fall 2003
?Rule of force or rule of law??

Pressure Spec

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Relations/Trade War DA
Zoellick Incr Relations Now ? Newsweek 2005

Trade war between U.S.-China --> Shooting war
Liv 2005 ?Trade wars can lead to shooting war?

Human Rights DA
China seeking cooperation w/ U.S. ? Kissinger 2005
Washington Post, June 13

Human rights progress being made now ? work with China is key
Dalphino 99
www.brookings.edu/comm/policybriefs/pb50.htm


CP:
USFG will make IPR compliance a conditions for being granted ?Market 
economy? status.

Framing the aff as a market economy issue derails protectionism in U.S. ? 
Green 2004

Baylor JT Neg Vs. MTCR



Baylor CM Negative

Counterplan ? Economic NOT diplomatic
Selective Diplomacy/Terrorism DA

Diplomatic Resources focused on Terrorism ? Smith 2005 ? Congressional, 
April 14
?public diplomacy?adequate funding?

Diplomatic pressure = state department
State Dept. Bureaus of Public affairs May 25, 2005
?state department leads?trade to nuclear weapons.?

New Diplomacy trades off with terrorism
Lugar March 18, 2003 FNS, ?state department has been starved?

Strong diplomacy key to prevent terrorism
Peterson 2002 ? Foreign Affairs sept./oct.
?public diplomacy?cooperation of foreign nations?

Terrorism = extinction
MacKinnon May 5, 2005 Washington Times
?terrorists who seek to obliterate the U.S.?

CONCORDIA FF Negative

International Relations K:

Economic discourse constructs public-private dichotomy privileging one 
perspective over others ? Callan & Hyman 2004 Post-Colonialism Meets 
Economics p. 118-9
Underside exploration is exploitation Space Exploration exploits space but 
people two
Angela Burr 2001 
http://www-ssg.sr.unh.edu/preceptorial/Summaries_2001/summary9_2001.html
Gatekeepers of IR include many voices so long as those voices are complicit 
with conventional nature of politics
Bleiker Alternatives Vol. 22 p. 78
Aff?s use of autonomous rational actor forecloses any possible alternative 
analysis
It?s nice to fool mother nature ? Feminine App to Int?l Law  - Soynerd & 
Little
(Gender/FEM IR ? Tickner, Peterson & Runyan)

Photos of Sudanese children consumed ? we become the perfect representation 
of violence ? the local was obscured and violent colonialism fed ? Kleinzmen 
96 ? Daedalus

Violence becomes new pornography suffering = entertainment, violence becomes 
rationalized
Bruckner & Bruckner 1986 ? tears of the Whiteman: compassion as contempt

Proliferation discourse precludes alternate Framing naturalizing problematic 
action ? Mutimer 2000 ?The Weapon State? p. 62, 156-7

ALTERNATIVE TO K ? Advocate ?sender analysis? and a negative ballot


EMPORIA CR vs. Missouri State (MTCR)

Marxism K

Joel Kovel 2002  The Enemy of Nature p. 5-7
Joshua urlantzick Sept. 16, 2004 ?Move over confucious? The New Republic 
online ? lexis
Marta Harnecker 2000 (www.dsp.org.au/links/back/issue16/harnecker.html
Istvan Meszaros 2001 Socialism or barbarism: from the American century to 
the crossroads
Kansas BL vs. Concordia

Nationalism DA

Pressure = nationalism and x?s global free trade
Elizabeth Economy the Blatimore Sun Dec. 11, 2003

Free Trade solves lots of stuff
Lampton ? The Nixon Center ?US-China relations in Post-September 11) 2002

Economy
Economic pressure on china collapses economy  Krysten cRAWFORD ? june 24, 05 
?Beware of the fixin China debate?
Mead 92 ? war

Diplomacy DA
Pressure china causes backlash ? terrorism, prolif, arms sales, the 
environment YU 2003
Cardozo Law Review ? November ?the Copyright divide?
China cooperating with US now ? alternative is extinction
Zhou Wenzhong Feb. 7 2002 http://www.fmprc.gov.en/eng/wjdt/zyjh/tb4286.htm



Kansas Neg vs. Miami Aff

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:
ASPEC
Extra T
XO CP
Executive Orders allow the president to enact policy while avoiding the 
political process of legislation. Philip Cooper, By Order of the President: 
The Use and Abuse of Executive Direct Action p. 58-59 ?executive orders are 
often used because?provide orders generated elsewhere?

Executive orders are essential to increasing and projecting presidential 
power. Todd Graziano, Texas Review of Law and Politics, Spring 2001. ?a 
proper understanding of a presidents?in the world?

Congressional encroachment in foreign policy constrains presidential power. 
Casper Weinberger The Fettered Presidency :Legal Constraints on the 
Executive Branch pg 97  ?with this in mind?to survive?

Executive order has force of law. Philip Cooper, By Order of the President: 
The Use and Abuse of Executive Direct Action p21 ?in the most general 
sense?force of law?

Presidential power is essential to US leadership in solving ethnic conflicts 
and AIDS. The Atlanta Journal and Constitution January 23, 2000. ?as 
president Clinton?that elaborates on the theme?

AIDs threatens to kill tens of millions. Avert.org 2005. 
www.avert.org/aafrica.htm  ?sub-saharan Africa?economy in general?

The Presidents influence over budget, agencies and other issues through XO 
has wide impacts. Kenneth Mayer With the stroke of a pen-executive orders 
and presidential power? ?but the institutional?executive branch?
Neither congress or the courts overturn executive orders. CNN.com March 29, 
2005. www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/29/ace.up.sleeve/index.html ?critics 
of executive order...factor of four?

Turn- the perm would lead to conflicts of interest and pork barrel politics 
killing solvency. Steven Calabresi, Arkansas Law Review 1995. ?in sum, the 
anti-unitarian?of the laws?

Turn- Strong presidential powers is key to terrorism, nuclear war, and 
preserve national security. Thomas Cronin and Michael Genovese The Pradoxes 
of the American Presidency ?a central question?of various coalitions?

No impact-Balance of powers is impossible to achieve. Kenneth Mayer With the 
stroke of a pen-executive orders and presidential power ?joseph story, in 
his?he cannot control?


Politics
Indian Nuclear cooperation will pass, but bush?s political capital is key. 
The Seattle Times, August 2, 2005. ?us officials are optimistic?supporting 
the accord?

Anti Taiwan policies require massive political capital. The Scotsman, April 
28, 2001. ?a recent draft ?back in the bank

Nuclear cooperation is key to us-indian relations. India Today, August 1, 
2005. ?the meeting would later?to do so?

This solves Taiwan war (analytical)

American Exceptionalism K
Link-Affirmative call to use economic pressure on china is rooted in 
American Exceptionalism. Annita Lysikatou, November 28, 1999. 
www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/smith/lysikatou.htm. ?the united 
states has much to gain?break open foreign markets?

Impact- The discursive construction of china is based on the flawed us self 
image of exceptionalism guarentteing conflict with china and a flawed 
epistemological approach to IR which must be rejected- minor changes fail.

Alternative text: Vote Neg- This refusal to accept the aff?s epistemology is 
crucial to opening up new ways of debating china.
The President of America should issue and executive order giving direct 
conditional positive support and financing to achieve an agreed framework of 
declatory statements and of other confidence-building measure.











Miami GV (Neg) vs. MO State MoWh (Aff)
T Must be Pressure
T Direct on China not on Parent Companies
Relations
Politics
c/p
Orientalism Kritik
Case

Wichita State CS (Aff) vs. Miami MW (Neg)
Relations
Constructions of Evil (Rape adv.)
Threat Construction cards (Genocide adv.)
Politics (Kicked in 2NC)
Chemical Industries Adv T/O
C/P
Nationalism
Biz Con

1. Sino-US Relations
new Dialogue starting between Us and China?Now is a crucial moment
Taiwan press 11 Aug 05 BBC monitoring International Reports Aug. 11th 2005
?The first round of?stage in the future?

Steps can counter act current negative trends in Sino-US relations.
Bonnie Glaser, CSIS Fellow, Comparitive Connections, July 2005 
http://www.csis.org/pacfor/ccejournal.html#usc
?It is premature to?Economic Cooperation summit.

Yuan Peng, China Visiting Fellow, The brooking institute, The Taiwan issue 
in the context of new sino-US strategic cooperation, Summer 2004, pg. 24
?Although Japanese remilitarization?.tactical and temporary?

Good relations key to peace in asia
Michael D. Swaine, Rand Corp., Foreign Affairs, March 2004-April 2004 pg. LN
?Moreover, the maintenance of?.war on terrorism

Relations key to save billions of lives
Dennis Roy, Survival Spring 2000 pg. 76
?A working relationship with?.related political environment?

2. Nationalism
Chinese politics are at a strategic crossroads
China reform Monitor March 7th, 2005 American foreign Policy Council 
http://www.afpc.org/crm/crm/580.shtml
?The people?s republic of China?.share that understanding?

Link?Pressure will increase the risk of a nationalist uprising
Suisheng Zhao, Associate Prof. U. of Denver, Federal News Service December 
7th 2004
?In terms of American influence?.of external pressure?

Rising nationalism will increase the risk china will invade Taiwan
Stephen J. Flanagan, Director, Institute for national strategic studies, 
National Defense University, The people liberation Army and China in 
Transition, August 2003 pg. 9
?Li Contends that the PLA?.national security agenda.?

A US-China war over Taiwan will go nuclear
The strait times (Singapore) June 25th, 2000
?The doomsday scenario?to the Chinese press?

3. Case
Positive approaches work better than negative sanctions
David Cortright, ?The price of peace: Incentives and International Conflict 
Prevention? 1997,
?Perhaps the greatest?.to foster cooperation?

Engagement is preferable to Coercion because sanctions for human rights have 
a poor track record
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?Finally, the counter-productive?.or deployed coercion.?

Economic pressure not only fails but it sometimes lead to worsening domestic 
conditions on China
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?The question of effectiveness?..ameliorate washington?s concerns

The MFN debate proves economic pressure actually creates disincentives for 
china to cooperate with US.
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?In the end, the US threat?.human rights abuses?

Sanctions have a very low success rate?30% at best
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?Much has been written?.1-2%?

Actual Sanctions have a much lower success rate then threatened sanctions
Cooper Drury, ?US economic sanction threat against china? 2003 Acc. 9/3/05 
http://www.missouri.edu/~drurya/sanctionthreats.pdf
?A few studies?.out of our analyses?

4. Politics: Iran Cut and Run

Bush is on an upswing after Katrina
The Christian Science Monitor, Sept. 14th, 2005
?Now there are inklings?.has been minimal?

Bush needs to keep high approval rating to prevent a cut and run
The NY Times Sept 11th, 2005
?How that collapse?publicly in July?

A cut and run causes war in the middle east
The Independent April 10th, 2004 Pg. LN
?Option:Cut and Run?.or Islamic rule?


This causes global nuclear exchange
Steinbach, 2002 
http://wagingpeace.org/articles/0203/0331steinbachisraeli.htm
Meanwhile, the existence?.a world conflagaration?

Michigan JV neg vs. Capital RS

Culture K:
Authenticity and homogeneity --> boundary on identity ? Munn 2000, Critical 
Horizons Vol. 1, Iss. 2
Search for subject --> genocide ? Bellman 2004 
http://gseweb.harvard.edu~t656_web/peace/bamc_pages,?politics,culture,media,andlead?
Culture as narrative form ? Munn alternative

Relations DA
Relations Incr ? SC Morn Post 9-15-05
Pressure x?s coop on N. Korea ? USA Today 3-20-05
MPX ? coop key to northe korea ? mead 6-19-05 LA Times
War --> Conflict Choi 2002 ? www.kimsoft.com/2002/nk_nuke5.html

MO State BR (Neg) vs. Wayne State BR (Aff)
ASPEC
T Diplomatic
Russia/China
	Aff. Bremmer Evidence?Non-Unique ***Good Card***
Case Solvency-Util/Consequentialism (AT: Their Genocide Adv./ Their ontology 
argument)
C/P?Do dip pressure only
Aff. Reeve evidence?Must have econ pressure to get China to change policy on 
Sudan
Euro Shift

1. T Diplomatic
?diplomacy is the employment of tact to gain strategic advantage, one set of 
tools being the phrasing of statements in a non-confrontational, or social 
manner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/diplomatic

Violation Direct use of force in plan text violates the resolution?imposing 
tariffs, quotas, or any other form of a sanction on China is not diplomatic 
in nature


2. Russia/China DA
Chian and Russia are moving closer together showing increased relation and 
cooperation
Wanjun and Yun 05 (Liu and Gao, China Daily ?Sino-Russian Relations 
Blossom,? August 3rd, http://english.sohu.com/20050803/n226549444.shtml
?Since establishing diplomatic relations?.growth of bilateral ties?

2. In spite of good relations, no full fledged alliance exists between 
Russia and China. Action by the United States is the only way to make this 
possible
Gilbert Rozman, Prof of Scociology at Princeton, Orbis, Volume 44, Issue 4 
Autumn 2000, Pages 541-555 online journal
?Close ties between China and?.possibility deserves scrutiny?

B. Russia and China unite to counter US diplomatic and economic pressure 
against china
Mathipoulos ?98 Margarita, Cooperation of Conflict, pg. 235
?The relation between?America or Europe?

C. Russia/China partnership allows effecting of multiple simultaneous wars 
of distraction culminating in a nuclear conflict
Rahm 02 Julie M, Parameters, ?Russia China, India: A new strategic triangle 
for a new cold war?? Winter pp.87
?Many Scenarios that would?.and regional relations?


3. Dollar DA
If Washington increases pressure on China, China will respond by boycotting 
the dollar by shifting to Euro assets, derailing the dollar
F. William Engdahl 4/24/2005 (Current Concerns, ?Japan and China tensions 
and Washington?s Asia Geopolitics?, 
http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archive/2005/03/20050312.php
?China holds one weapon it?.if the pressure rises?

Dollar Slip will slow down the global economy
Xie 2005 (andy, Global Economic Forum ?Asia/Pacific: Dollar is the Key?, Jan 
4 http://www.morganstanley.com/GEFdata/digests/20050104-tue.html
?When the dollar bottoms?.economy would follow

This causes a huge war and turns case
Lopez 1998 (Bernardo V., Buisness World ?Global recession phase two: 
Catastrophic?, 9/10)
?What would it be?.its ways internationally?


4. Hardliners Turn
Sanctions will allow monopolies of power to reinforce their 
ideologies?hardliners would be propped up.
James A. Dorn, Cato Journal ?Trade and Human Rights: The Case of China? 1996 
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-5.html
?Economic Sanctions may be?for domestic problems

Economic sanctions props up Hardliners
James A. Dorn, Cato Journal ?Trade and Human Rights: The Case of China? 1996 
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-5.html ?The biggest obstacle?.to 
overthrow them?

Sanctions eliminate private firms in China, solidifying political 
dictatorship
James A. Dorn, Cato Journal ?Trade and Human Rights: The Case of China? 1996 
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-5.html ?Directors of China?s 
state-owned?harsh political dictatorship?


AT: Sanctions
Sanctions restrict freedoms, set a dangerous trade precedent, and do not 
accomplish their desired results
Stuart Anderson (I was not able to get the rest of the cite)


5. Saudia Arabia DA
Current State department focus is on Saudi?s transition to a new king
M. Ghazanfar Ali Khan. Arab New Staff Writer ?More Pledge Allegiance to the 
New King? Arab News The Middle East?s Leading English Language Daily Google 
News, August 5th, 2005
?State department spokesman?.Casey Said?

US diplomacy is focusing on Saudi?s democratic reform.
Political Capital is finite?the plan distracts US Focus.
Terry Anderson and J. Bishop Grewell ?The Greening of Foreign Policy?PERC 
Policy Series, 2002 www.perc.org/pdf/ps20.pdf

Faiure of US diplomacy risks Saudi regime collapse
Gerald Posner, author of ?Secrets of the kingdom: The inside story of the 
secret Saudi-U.S. Connection? The NY Times, The Kingdom and the Power August 
2, 2005 Lexis)
?These are not the?.generation of royals?

Collapse of the House of Saud causes World War 3
Paul Lloyd, The advertiser ?Saudi Arabia?s ruling family key to stability? 
June 26th, 2004 Lexis)
?The Fall of the house?.world war 3?



Negative Team: NIU PW vs. Affirmative Team: Missouri State KO

On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation


Econ pressure = sanctions
Increase = make bigger

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Chinese Nationalism DA
Contained Now ? Sutter 2005
Pressure increases nationalism ? qingguo 2005
Nationalism --> CCP takeover ? dingxin 2002
Natlism --> war over Taiwan

Relations (ADI Version)

Ban all restrictions on trade to china.
UMKC FR Negative vs. Affirmative Team: Oklahoma JL

On-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]                    
                           Text of Topicality Violation

Monolithic representations of Capitalism BAD ? Gibson-Graham 1996

Pressure = sanctions

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:

Ted Galen Carpenter ? 2003
http://www.cato.org/dailys/01-04-03.html


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Aff begins with wrong question of ?policy action? we should take towards 
challenge.  We must challenge the premise of the US needing to change China 
and discuss these two countries in their own terms which will --> awareness 
better political decisions.
Weston & Jensen 2000 ?China beyond the headlines?

Held together by assumptions that China is inherently in need of help to fix 
their primitive culture.  This mentality forecloses any possibility for real 
dialogue with what we consider china.
?Legal Orientalism?  Michigan Law Review Vol. 101:179

When we create China as a belligerent aggressor ? it?s a self-fulfilling 
prophecy.  This thinking closes off althernative understandings of China --> 
cycle of fear oppression
Morgan 2004 ? ?Distinguishing truth, knowledge and belief? Modern China, 
Vol. 30, July

Policy not escape western knowledge assumption that is superior to China.  
US Formulates IR policy by creating west\east distinction.  This --> 
divisions, and threatens survival ? SAID Orientalism 1978 p. 44

Alto ? Get beyond this view ? listen to the voice of the other.  People in 
China have voices ? breaks down hierarchy
Tongxi 1988 ? The Myth of the Other?, Critical Inquiry, Vol. 15, Autumn
UT Dallas Negative

BACKCHANNEL CP:

Eric Brahm ? 2003 www.beyondintractability.or/m/diplomacy--intro.jsp
Ralph Cossa 2000 ? www.csis.org/pacfor/annual/specialMay2000.pdf
?Long term visions of regional security: US and China? ? May
Conflict Research Consortium 1998 
www.colorado.edu/conflict/peace/treatment/track1.htm
John McDonald 1991 ? ?Further explanation of track two diplomacy? Timing the 
de-escalation of international conflicts in Kriedberg & Thorson 1991 ed.
Noher & McDonald 1996 ? usis F.P. journals ? 
http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itps/1296/ijpe/pj19mcdo.htm
www.intractableconflict.org/m/track1_diplomacy.jsp
susan Allen nan 2003
?track 1 diplomacy?

Negative Team: Wayne ET
Vs. Affirmative Team: Missouri State MeWa

Calc Thoughts:
Nazism means must reject aff args ? Zizek
Focus on ontology = genocide inevitable

Trafficking:
Statistics flawed ? it?s voluntary
Plan used to deny women asylum
Sex trafficking laws bad; corrupt laws --> sex trade


ASPEC

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

WTO Good DA

Politics:
India won?t confront Iran now
Increase pressure means B gets agenda
B?s agenda collapses NPT
Prolif leads to indirect NW, regional conflicts

Chinese nationalism DA

China Bashing/Dollar DA (Bond Sell-off scenario)

Consult China (2NC says China will say ?no?)

Wayne State MS (Neg) vs. UMKC FR (Aff.)
1NC Strat
T pressure
T E and Dip Pressure
Global Violence (we separate our selves from the global harms)
Subjugated Knowledge (Scott ?92)
Politics (NPT/Nuclear Tech)
C/P?Just use dip pressure
Framework (Must defend state action of increase econ and dip pressure) 
(Burk/Iverson ?99) (Mitchell ?00)
Case (s)

1. Politics DA
Bush lacks sufficient congressional support to pass the Indian nuclear deal 
in status quo
Lawrence j. Korb, an assistant secretary of defense during the Reagan admin. 
And Peter Ogden are with the center for American process The Washington Post 
August 3 2005
?The Bush Administration?.of its rewards?

Links?Increase pressure on the PRC will increase congressional support for 
Bush?s agenda
Mitton, US Bureau Chief, The Straits Times (Singapore) Sept. 3, 2005
?It would be an exaggeration?China over Taiwan?

Congressional passage of the Indian nuclear deal will collapse the NPT and 
spark a global arms race.
Sacramento Bee July 23, 2005
?Even so, the?that more difficult?


2. Kritik of Experience/Narratives/Subjugated Knowledge

Link: Exposing subjugated histories, documenting the other, or using 
narratives rests on the authority of experience
Scott 92 (Joan, ?Experience,? Feminists Theorize the political, Ed. Judith 
Butler & Joan Scott pg. 24
?This kind of communication?his or her texts?

This is problematic because appeals to experience weakens critical thrust of 
the histories of difference, reaffirms the epistemological frame of 
hegemonic history, naturalizes difference, displaces resistance outside of 
discourse and decontextualizes agency, and forecloses any critical 
examination of the contructivness of our experience
Scott 92 (Joan, ?Experience,? Feminists Theorize the political, Ed. Judith 
Butler & Joan Scott pg. 24
?Documenting the experience?.act in the world?


3. Famework

Flip-Side Good
Dvbvig and Iverson, of ASU 1999
(Kristen Chisholm and Joel O., 
http://debate.uvm.edu/dybvigiverson1000.html.gjm
?research helps to?.opinions and attitudes?

4. Global Violence Kritik
We are the global violence the affirmative depicts. Viewing violence from 
the standpoint of the state serves to relieve our responsibility for 
violence.
Kappeler, 1995 (Susan, ?The will to violence: The politics of Personal 
Behaviour?)
?Violence what we usually?.of war and violence (pg.8-11)

Politicizing the way we think about violence is a precondition for 
non-violence and avoiding replication.
Kappeler, 1995 (Susan, ?The will to violence: The politics of Personal 
Behaviour?)
?A politics aiming?.of ideology itself (6-7)?


5. C/P
A combination of diplomative pressure and cooperation solves the case
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?What is needed at ?.of state action?

Basing pressure on international law arguments creats the perception that 
the US interest is non-political. The CP is empirically proven
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?Human rights first believes?.within china advocating reform?

Targeted support for legal reform would be accepted by China and leads to 
reform
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?The freasibility of providing?.human rights in China?

Targeting legal reform leads to human rights protection and further 
political reforms
Human Rights First 1998, (?beyond ?linkage? and ?engagement?: A new approach 
to US China Policy? May
?these new laws contain?.political environment permits?

6. Case
Turn: Economic sanctions decrease freedom of religion in China
Sirico 99 (Robert, President of the action institute for the study of 
religion and liberty. USA today magazine. September. www.againstbombing.org)
?Some people think?china into a recession?

Turn: Unilateral enforcement of religious freedom is harmful because 1 
undermines better multilat monitouring and enforcement 2 blocks compliance 3 
promotes an us v them mindset that undermines religious freedom.
Danchin, 2002 (Peter G., ?US unilateralism and the International Protetion 
of Religious Freedom: The Multilateral Alternative? Columbia, Journal of 
Transnational Law. Lexis
?The part argues that?.and protect abroad?


Wayne BR NEG vs. Emporia State JM

Silence = Holocaust ? must construct threats
Deterrence Good

Aff must increase both diplomatic and economic pressure ? increase 
pre-existing pressure.  Must increase or FX Topical

Key Topicality Cite/Tags:

Drury & L 2003 ? Diplomatic pressure


Key Negative Off-Case Arguments: [Please include tags + full citations]      
                                                                            
Counter-Plan Text:

Japan says yes ? key to alliance (Ogawa 99)
Japan supports pressure on Taiwan ? zhongwei 99
Alliance key to hegemony ? Ogawa 99
Khalillzad

POLITICS
Not support  - karb 2005
PRC pressure incr congress support (NPT?) ? mitton 2005
NPT Pass x?s NPT = global arms race ? Sacramento Bee 2005
Global nuclear war

Consult Japan CP ? Japan says ?yes?

USFG should enter into prior binding consultations with the Japanese 
government over the plan.

Wayne State NP (NEG) vs. Kansas KP (MTCR ? Sanction Parent Companies)
5 Off, Solvency

T Diplo Pressure
Diplo press  = demand
Eco press = sanctions
Not SINGULAR action
Pressure = force
Not diplo pressure
Extra t illigit

POLITICS

A. Indian nuclear deal ? not pass in SQ
B. Congress nuclear pandoras box
C. Incr pressure on PRC --> cong support for agenda (strait times 2005)

NATIONALISM

a. Needs political support in China to check nat?lsm
b. Econ pressure --> energy for nationalists
c. Americ pressure stokes nationalism
d. Loss of credit --> massive civil unrest
e. Civil war --> war econ collapse, major war

WTO

A. u.s. committed to WTO in sq (2005)
B. Unilat u.s. trade pressure --> damage to WTO (wto collapse upon 
clarification)
C. Lack WTO dispute resolution = nuclear war

CP (Unconditional)

EU incr pressure on China, penalty ban on exports
EU has significant diplomatic network, more than U.S.
China more willing to work with EU
Europe/China work together to constrain U.S. in multilateral institutions

OB3 Net Benefit

NYT 2005 ? EU needs credibility to incr place in world  coop with China is 
important to place for EU

EU work on China = incr eu power

EU power key to check war in Europe ? daalder 2005

SOLVENCY

Unilateral pressure is not effective

Domestic interest groups mobilized over China ? threats not credible

China failed bid on CNOOC spread into other interests, competing oil

Unilateral sanctions fail (2003)
U.S. sanctions/protectionist policy not work

Pakistan gets nuclear tech from Russia ? 2002

Focus on Tools of warfare is blinding ? not solve (Martin 1996)

Wayne State Politics/Indian Nuclear Deal

India deal unlikely to pass in SQ
The Hindu Sept. 15, 2005
?reaction has the potential of derailing?

India Deal Angers Pakistan --> arms race
Business recorder 9-15-05
?strategic alliance will drastically?
?should seriously consider?

India Pakistan conflict extinction
www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2002/05/00_ong_india-pakistan.htm
?war between the two countries?
?nuclear annihilation?

Bush lacks congressional support for Indian nuclear deal
Korb ? The Washington Post Aug. 3, 2005
?administration?s second error?
?we could end up paying?

Increasing pressure on PRC = congressional support
The Straits Times Sept. 3 05
?the contentious issues?
?appeasing China over Taiwan?

Congress passage of Indian nuclear deal x?s NPT = arms race
Sacramento Bee July 23 2005
?the proposed u.s. sale?
?opening a nuclear Pandora?s box?

NPT collapse impact
www.basicint.org/pubs/Research/2002BB.pdf

Indo-U.S. relations strong w/o deal
Financial Times July 20, 2005
?the broad case for partnership?
?have been possible without?

Nationalism DA

HU Has credibility Now ? Nationalist support is key
Christensen 2005
April 6, 2005
Federal News Service
?Chinese communist party elites?
?placed a premium on protecting their image?

Economic Pressure weakens? hu credibility
Drew Diver 2002, May 8 
http://www.geocities.com/ccparty2002/what_will_hu_do.html
Loss of Credibility --> unrest
Zhao 2002
Exploring Nationalisms in China p. 101
?such predictions, however?
?will spin out of control?

Civil unrest --> regional war
Kane & Serewicz 2001
Parameters Autumn p. 63 ?China?s Hunger?
?If order broke down?
?attacking adjacent countries?
Wichita State CS NEG vs. Kansas CJ (Airplanes)

ORIENTALISM OPERATES THROUGH A SYSTEM OF REPRESENTATION THAT LEGITMATES 
CONTROL OVER THE ORIENT
WU 2004
(Nadine ?The Dynamics of Orientalism and Globalization in the International 
Sex Industry and Human Trafficking? 
www.jmu.edu/writeon/documents/2004/wu.pdf)

A. US IMPERIALISM DIVIDES SOVERIGNTY INTO SIDES OF GOOD AND EVIL THIS ACT 
VICIOUSLY OTHERIZES OUTSIDE THREATS WHILE KEEPING THE US SAFELY ON THE SIDE 
OF THE INNOCENT
Nikhil Pal Singh, professor of history at the University of Washington 2002 
(?The Spectacle of Empire,? The anarchy of empire in the making of US 
culture,Harvard University Press)

B. OUR ALTERNATIVE IS TO UNMASK THE AFFLIATIVE ORDER OF ORIENTALISM
BAYMOUI 2004
(Moustafa ?Our Philogical Home is the Earth? Arab Studies Quarterly, 
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2501/is_4_26/ai_1356293)


A. UNIQUENESS
HU WORKING HARD TO CONSOLIDATE POWER BASE-THESE EFFORTS ARE CRITICAL TO 
MAINTAIN HIS MONOPOLY ON POWER
Willy Lam 1-8-05 Senior China Analyst, Jamestown Foundation H?S CAMPAIGN FOR 
IDEOLOGICAL PURITY AGAISNT THE WEST. 
www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?search=1&volume_id=408&issue_id=3201&article_id_2369108

B. LINK
PRESSURE EXERTED BY THE PLAN SPARKS RENEWED NATIONALISM
COTTAM AND COTTAM 2001
(Martha, a political professor at Washington State University, Richard, 
professor in Pitt?s Department of Political Science, Nationalism and 
Politics: The Political Behavior of Nation States, pg 242)

C. IMPACT
1. A SURGE OF NATIONALISM RISKS CURRENT REGIME SURVIVAL
Record, Jeffrey, winter 01 (Armed Services Committee, professor of strategy 
and international security at the Air War College, senior research fellow at 
the Center for International Strategy, Technology and Policy) ?Thinking 
about China and War? Aerospace Power Journal

2. A BILLION PEOPLE WILL DIE
Sam Renxing, Aug 05 2005, ?The CCP?s Last Ditch Gable: Biological and 
Nuclear War Hundreds of millions of deaths proposed? Epoch Times Staff


WICHITA BL vs. CONCORDIA KK
Spanos

Relations DA
GHG From China Increasing ? U.S. Cinal Coop key
Robert Collier 2005  San Francisco Chronicle p. a1  ?Bush Signs deal to help 
with Clean air in China?
Human Rights pressure decr relations ? Weatherly ?99 ? Discourse on Human 
Rights, Historical & Ideological Perspectives
Warming x?s biodiversity = extinction ? Whittwer 1995

CP ? Exclude diplomatic pressure

Baylor JT Negative vs. MTCR Affirmative

EU Counterplan (China likes EU Better ? AP Sept. 7, 2005
Relations DA
UN Sec. Council Horse Trading DA (Iran Sanctions GOOD)
- Bush = sanction IRAN now (Michael Hedges, 8/10/05 ? Houston Chronicle)
o Destroys Horse Trading ? Colin Lyncy 7/6/01 Washington Post
o Sanctions Key 2 stop Iran nuclear program ? Perkovich and Manzanero May 
2004 ? Nonproliferation and U.S. Leadership Project

Case Studies of U.S. Economic Sanctions: The Chinese, Cuban, and Japan ? 
Askari

DON?T KNOW WHO RAN IT, But we have neg args with cites?. So here you go


WTO DA

The U.S. committed to WTO dispute resolution now
Lapter 2005  4 Chi.-Kent Journal Intell Prop 217
?The WTO?s dispute resolution mechanism?
?Based on the United States? lump-sum?
?within its confines?

U.S. Unilateral Trade pressure undermines Dispute resolution
World Trade Organization, United States ? Sections 301-310 of the Trade Act 
of 1974, Report of the Panel, Dec. 22, 1999

5.284 Japan also states that on the basis of the above points, whereby the 
United States unilaterally applies its own rules and regulations by way of 
the Trade Act of 1974, such action can seriously damage the Dispute 
Settlement Mechanism within the framework of the WTO.

Impact ? Lack of WTO dispute resolution --> nuclear conflict
Copley News Service Dec. 1, 1999
?For decades, many children?
?they should be celebrating it?

Trade War/Chinese Nationalism DA Stuff  (UN-Labelled Negative 
Disclosure?i.e., free cards)

Plan = Trade war
Legruin 2003 ?the Coming Collapse of Free Trade? The New Republic

Destroys WTO
Nicholas Lardy April 25 ?US-China Economic Relations: Implications for U.S. 
Policy?

Nationalism

Maochun Yu 2005 ?Thina?s State control mechanisms and methods China 
Nationalism? Testimony, April 14 before USCHINA economic and Security Review


Thurschwell K:

The claim that the judge has an ethical responsibility to vote aff is mired 
in a fundamental paradox ? Thurschwell 2001 ? in Law/Text/Context 2001, 
5:271

The paradox of ethical action pervades IR.  Language of diplomacy, war, and 
politics is incapable of investing an aff ballot with ethics
[ Derrida, 1995, Gift of Death, trans. By david willis]

The ballot locates ethical justification in an unconditional obligation to 
the other
Thurschwell 2003  - Cardozo Law Review March 2003 24:1193

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: UNI Caselist Neg Alph.30308DEFANGED-doc
Type: application/defanged
Size: 116224 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20050918/4d8b4b55/attachment.bin 


From jakethompsondebate  Sun Sep 18 16:05:17 2005
From: jakethompsondebate (jacob thompson)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:05:17 +0000
Subject: [eDebate] Aff UNI caselist alphabetized post round 6
Message-ID: <BAY107-F50516A075ECAA928FE03AC5930@phx.gbl>


Affirmative Team: Augustana BS, FH, RS
Negative Team:

[C

Laogai/Forced Labor

Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

The United States Federal Government should substantially increase 
diplomatic and economic pressure on the People?s Republic of China in the 
area of human rights by abrogating the Memorandum of Understanding of 1992 
with China regarding slave labor and the Statement of Cooperation of 1993 
with China, provide Customs Service the administrative authority to ban 
entire categories of products from China, if it is found that forced labor 
products of the same type are being sent into the United States as well as 
ban all imports from the Chinese state trading company which cooperates in 
the illegal importation of forced labor products. The United States Federal 
Government should also provide the State Department and the U. S. 
Citizenship and Immigration Services the authority to revoke the business 
visa of any People?s Republic of China nationals working in the United 
States for a company or any of its subsidiaries which has been found by the 
Customs Service to be involved in the illegal trade in forced labor 
products.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

Contention 2: We Solve
-The Plan solves, and is substantial pressure on the government
Jeffrey L. Fiedler, President of the Food and Allied Service Trades 
Department of the AFL-CIO, and co-founder of the LRF, Forced Labor in China. 
6/22/2005. http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/Fiedler.php
Current U.S. law concerning-Renouncing the MOU sends a signal to China that 
the U.S. does not accept the Laogai
Laogai Research Foundation, 1995, Newsletter. Laogai Research Foundation 
Proposes U.S. Policy Changes. http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/Dec95c.htm
The Laogai Research Foundation proposes-The plan is key to ending the Laogai 
system, educating individuals in this round is a step in the direction of 
ending oppression
Pejan 00
(Human Rights Brief Winter, 2000 7 Hum. Rts. Br. 22  ARTICLE: Laogai: 
"Reform Through Labor" in China NAME: by Ramin Pejan ** Ramin Pejan is a 
J.D. candidate at the Washington College of Law and an articles editor for 
the Human Rights Brief, l/n)
Aside from the PRC's obligationsThe United States contributes greatly to the 
Laogai?s existence, we cannot ignore the Laogai and at the same time condemn 
Concentration Camps or Gulags it is the same type of system.Wu, founder and 
Executive Director of the Laogai Research Foundation, 01
(New Internationalist 337August 2001Click here to search the mega index. 
Slavery / FORCED LABOUR / TRAFFICKING 
http://www.newint.org/issue337/violent.htm)
As a survivor of 19 years?



Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
Contention 1: The Laogai
-Despite current agreements the US is not enforcing restrictions on forced 
labor products
Jeffrey L. Fiedler, President of the Food and Allied Service Trades 
Department of the AFL-CIO, and co-founder of the LRF, Forced Labor in China. 
6/22/2005. http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/Fiedler.php
The United States negotiated a Memorandum of Understanding?
-The Laogai is the most extensive forced labor camp system in the world and 
is dependant on international commerce to function
Harry Wu, Executive Director, Laogai Research Foundation, 6/22/05 Forced 
Labor In China http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/HarryWu.pdf
The Laogai remains the most extensive

-The U.S. is the main problem. Three billion in Laogai products come to the 
U.S. annually
Daniel J. O'Connor, Political Anylyst and author, 1998. The Chinese Gulag 
Article in the Winter Edition of The Colby Reader 
http://www.colby.edu/par/Winter%2098/Laogai.htm
Although importation of slave

-The U.S. is the biggest market for forced labor products.
South China Morning Post, 8/19/2005. Banks buy into jail-labor firm.
http://www.laogai.org/news/newsdetail.php?id=2361
Six of the world's largest

-Laogai are critical to China?s economy of slavery
Harry Wu, Executive Director, Laogai Research Foundation, 6/22/05  Forced 
Labor In China http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/062305/HarryWu.pdf
Besides being an important

We have an obligation to end human suffering- putting political questions 
before that ethical question repeats the worst atrocities
Meister 05(Department of Politics University of California, Santa Cruz 
Postmodern Culture, 2005 "Never Again": The Ethics of the Neighbor and the 
Logic of Genocide Robert Meister)
           My topic is not whether the "world community
-The Laogai system enslaves 20 million and is a machine of genocide, 
torture, slavery, and corporate fascism when fueled by Western businesses.
Falun Gong Rights Working Group, 2005, Overview of Enslavement 
http://www.flghrwg.net/reports/html/2002_5.html.

The African Slave Trade,Laogai are the ultimate affront to human dignity
Beatrice 99
(VOICES FROM THE LAOGAI: 50 YEARS OF SURVIVING CHINA'S FORCED LABOR CAMPSA 
Report by Dory Beatrice, SDFoT Coordinator 
http://www.sdtibet.org/news_v1n4.html Vol. 1 No. 4  Fall 1999 Quarterly 
Newsletter)
Prisoners are generally

We must struggle for dignity- it is the only way to prevent the annihilation 
of the planet
Holloway 00
("Zapatismo and the Social Sciences John Holloway  This is the text of a 
talk presented to the congress of SCOLAS (Southwest Council of Latin 
American Studies) in Puebla in March 2000." 
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:PfhMWeY3P6QJ:www.endpage.org/Archives/Subversive_Texts/Holloway/The_Zapatistas_and_the_Soc.htm+%22using+people+as+a+means+to+an+end%22&hl=en&client=firefox-a)
To think in the non-existing




Affirmative Team: Baylor CM & FS
Negative Team:

[C



Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

PLAN: PLAN: THE USFG SHOULD SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE ITS DIPLOMATIC AND 
ECONOMIC PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE?S REPUBLIC OF CHINA IN THE AREA OF WEAPONS 
NONPROLIFERATION BY PLACING SMART SANCTIONS ON CHINESE ?PARENT? COMPANIES.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

[ No solvency stuff yet ]



Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

A1- Iranian Prolif

A. Chinese companies are increasing nuclear coop with Iran despite current 
sanctions
Milhollin, 05 (cited above)

B. Iran is on the brink of nuclearization
LA Times, 6-26-05; LN ?move ahead at full speed?

C. Iran will have nukes in 8 months
Washington Times 5/24/05; LN; ?the point of no return?

D. Iran will attack Israel with nukes
Louis Rene Beres April 6, ?05; www.worldnetdaily.com

E. This kills millions and obliterates Israel
Beres (cited above)

A2- Pakistan

A. China is increasing nuclear coop with Pakistan
Malik April 29, 04. http://www.jamestown.org
B. Continued coop bw China/Pakistan risks was with India
Agence France Presse, 4-12-05; ?three wars with Pakistan?

C. This kills 12million people on the subcontinent
Shanker & McCarthy ?02; NYT, May 28th, LN; ?12 million people instantly?.

Baylor CM Affirmative


I.  Bush has sanctioned Chinese companies on 60 separate occasions over 
their continued  WMD-related cooperationand assistance to Iran   
Rademaker,March 11, 2005, DISARMAMENT DOCUMENTATION 
www.acronym.org.uk/docs/0503/doc04.htm   our longstanding rpactice of 
imposing sanctions agianst Chinese entities
Unfortuantely, the current US nonprolif regime toward china is failing for 2 
reasons  a. only targets subsidiary corporations, but not the parent 
companies, the huge state-run conglomerates;  b.  Economic penalties imposed 
are not strong enough.  Milhollin , March 10, 05 
www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/testimonies/2005/US-China-comm-031005.htm   
giant loophole
PLAN;  states resolution in area of weaopns nonproliferation by  
IMPLEMENTING NEW ECON SANCTIONS against the following "parent" companies and 
their subsidiaries to end their proliferation activities:  China North 
Industries Group, Sinopec, Sinosteel, and China Aviation Industry 
Corporations 1 & 2

1.  IRAN
Sce1.  Israel.  A.  Chinese companies are continuing to share advanced wMD 
technology and expertise with Iran (and several other nations) despite the 
current US sanctions regime.  Rademaker, 3-11/-5  
www.acronym.org.uk/docs/0503/doc04.htm  nuclear establishments
iran is on the brink of producing nuclear weapons; newly elected hardline 
president Ahmadinejad ahs vowed to pursue nuclearization as soon as possible 
  LA Times  6/26/05  Nexis  "axis of evil"  "move ahead at full speed
c.  Iran will erach point of no return within 6 months Washington Times 
5/24/ 05 washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050524-043712-5381r.htm   "point 
of no return"  nuclear bomb
D.  Iran has made no secret of its paln to launch Nuc attacks against Israel 
Beres, 4-6-05  WORLDNET DAILY.com "Lake Michigan"  treaty obligation  
first-strike attacks
E.  Iranian nuclear attack on Israel would kill millions.  It would 
annihilate the entire country Beres 05 worldnet daily.com   "Iranian nuclear 
attack"  human rights  nuclear war

2.   Turkey
a.  Nuclearization of Iran sparks Turkish nationalism Feiser 1-28-05 
www.pinr.com/report.php?ac+view_report&report_id=261&language_id=1  
"Turkey's internal political dimensions" military nationalism
B.  Turkey is a pivot state.  A Nationalist foreign policy would cy 
counterproductive to US interests in Caspian region Larrabee and Lesser  03  
http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1612   source of instability  "pivot 
state"
C. Turkey critical to prevent Russian expansionism into Caspian  Khalilzad 
Lesser and Larrabee, 00  http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1241   
"Russian expansion in the Caspian Basin"
D.  Russian expansionsim causes nuc war Cohen 1/25/96  Heritage Backgrounder 
#1065    "reconstituted Russian empire"

II   PAKISTAN
A.  China will increase its nuclear and missile assistance to Pakistan 
despite the repeated imposition of sanctions    Malik 4-29-04  China Brief  
www.jamestown.org     "countervail its perceived rivals and enemies"
B.  Continue Sino-Pakistan Nuclear coop risks war between India and Pakistan 
  Agence France Press 4-12-05   "Pakistan and China"  "chasma nuclear power 
plant"
C.  nuc war between India and Pakistan would kill 12 million people and 
destroy the entire Indian subcontinent  
www.endyorks.gn.apc.org/news/articles/asia/nuclearfear.htm Shankar & 
McCarthy 02  New York Times May 28    "full-scale nuclear exchange"

III.  TERRORISM
A.  Iran and Pakistan are the most likely sources for terrorists to acquire 
the means to strike the US with nuclear weapons Cohen 5-20-05 heritage 
Backgrounder 1854  heritage.org  "radical islamists  military and 
intelligence services  Pakistan
B.  An act of nuc terrorism would be devastating.  It is the overwhelming 
policy concern  Chesney 97  Loyola of LA International and Comparative Law 
Journal 20:29  November, lexis   "human suffering resulting from a 
detonation"

IV PROLIFERATION DIPLOMACY
A.  US proliferation credibiliyt is weak because of the soft appraoch to 
Iranian nuclear prolif  Levi 04  
www.iranwatch.org/privateviews/Brookings/perspex-brookings-emptywords-012104.htm 
    concessionary     offering a mechanism
B. lack of action to halt Paklstani proliferation has damaged nonprolif 
credibiliyt and counterterrorism  Nolan, 04  www.fpa.org  2/12   "risky 
approach toward Pakistan"
C.  US proliferation credibility key to halt global proliferation of nuclear 
wapons Japan Times 7-4-05    "population centers"  "international-control 
management"

ob 2  SOLVENCY -- tension descending
A.  Redirecting US economic sanctions to target Chinese parent companies 
will solve.  The Chinese would have enormous economic incentives to comply 
China is extremely vulnerable to US economic leverage while its market 
economy is still developing Milhollin 05 
www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/testimonies/2005/US-China-comm-031005.htm    
vulnerable to economic pressure
B.  Your PIC doesn't begin to sovle the case.  A combination of diplomacy 
and tough sanctions when needed is the best way to curb Chinese 
proliferation  Rademaker 05  www.acronym.org.uk/docs/0503/doc04.htm   
thinking carefully about the issues  sustained dialogue
C.  There is no hope of preventing nuc prolif and nuc terrorism without 
Chinese cooperation Rademaker 05  see above   "rogue states prepared to uose 
them"
D.  Plan is the only way to both gain  gains Chines compliance in ending its 
prolif activities and to restore US nonprolif credibility  Milhollin 05 
economy is the most powerful leverage we have  
www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/editorials/2005/Sinopec-oped-040705.htm  
laxity on our part  Sinosteel
Current US policy awards Chinese prolif.  Sanctioning Sinopec itself solves 
prolif to Iran  Kapisthalam 3-11-05   Asia Times   "Trade and Development 
Agency"  "winks at blatant Chinese proliferation"





























Case Area [ X All that Apply ]
Trade __  Human Rights _x_  Weapons Proliferation __ Taiwan __


Affirmative Team: Baylor JL & LO
Negative Team:

[C


Complicity with mass atrocities in Olympic Stadium
Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

PLAN: The USFG should boycott the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

01- Cognizance

A. A US boycott is the only way to force China to respect human rights
RSF.Org 2005 (cited above)

B. Boycott massively increases diplomatic and economic pressure on China
The Applied History Research Group, 2001; 
http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history

C. Inaction in the face of atrocities makes one complicit, risking all life 
on earth
Vetlesen ?00; Journal of Peace Research, v37, n4, p.522)

D. The US should link improved human rights performance to participation in 
the 08 Olympics; Tkacik ?01; Heritage Executive Memorandum #764; 
http://www.heritage.org

E. Boycott is the only way to stand up for the principles of Democracy, and 
for the symbol of the Olympics; TRIBUNE MEDIA SERVICES, July 18th 01;




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
02- Complacency
A. In preparation for the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, the Chinese have ordered 
a massive crackdown on human rights and dissent of all kinds
     Reporters Without Borders, RSF.Org 2005; http://www.rsf.org

B. The Chinese government has authorized strike-hard campaigns to crush free 
expression
Students for a Free Tibet, ?05; http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org

C. These campaigns will last until the 2008 Games are over
The Epic Times, 2004; http://english.epochtimes.com/news

D. These campaigns lead to the arbitrary execution of dissidents
Norbu, ?04; Buying the Dragon?s Teeth; pp66-7.

E. These mass executions are taking place in Olympic Stadium!
Norbu ?04?.

Affirmative Team: Baylor RT
Negative Team:

[C
?Security Council Aff?

A1?Miscalculation
A2?Israeli disclosure
A3- The Caspian
Scenario 1?Iran-Russia Conflict
Scenario 2?Russian Economy
A4- Turkish Nationalism

Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

PLAN: THE USFG SHOULD SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE ITS DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC 
PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE?S REPUBLIC OF CHINA IN THE AREA OF WEAPONS 
NONPROLIFERATION BY PLACING SMART SANCTIONS ON CHINESE PARENT COMPANIES IF 
CHINA REFUSES TO SUPPORT OR AT LEAST ABSTAIN FROM UNITED NATIONS SANCTIONS 
ON IRAN.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

O2- Solvency

A. UN sanctions on Iran are key to check prolif
Wisconsin Project ?05?.http://www.iranwatch.org (cited above)

B. Even minor UN sanctions lay the groundwork for future action on Iran
Wisconsin Project ?04?(cited above)

C. Only pressure and sanctions on Iran will solve
Sneh 12-13-03; http://www.mediamonitors.net

D. US must pressure China to prevent a Chinese Veto
Tkacik, Sept. 2. ?05; John, http://www.heritage.org

E. Only the UN solves; Iran will bow to UN pressure
Friedman 2-28-05; National Review, LN

F. Unilateral sanctions fail; only multilateral UN action solves
Perkovich & Manzanero ?04; Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, 
www.ceip.org




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

O1- Inherency

A. U.S. must move quickly to ensure Iran doesn?t nuclearize; Ahmadinejad has 
crushed moves for reform in Iran; Scotland on Sunday, 8-14-05, LN, ?Tehran 
is uncompromising?
B. U.S. will take Iran to the UN Security Council sometime in September, 
they will push for UN nonprolif sanctions. Charleston Gazette, 8-15-04; 
?800-pound gorilla of American foreign policy?
C. Iran?s nuclear program is not peaceful; they are developing nukes and 
delivery systems; Washington Quarterly, 28.3. (2005)? Kathleen McInnis
D. China will Veto UN sanctions o Iraq in the SQ; Agence France Press 
8-12-05; ?China needs to keep firing?.

PLAN: THE USFG SHOULD SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE ITS DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC 
PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE?S REPUBLIC OF CHINA IN THE AREA OF WEAPONS 
NONPROLIFERATION BY PLACING SMART SANCTIONS ON CHINESE PARENT COMPANIES IF 
CHINA REFUSES TO SUPPORT OR AT LEAST ABSTAIN FROM UNITED NATIONS SANCTIONS 
ON IRAN.

A1?Miscalculation

Iran nuclearization =s nuclear war and miscalculation, even a small conflict 
coujld escalate

Wisconsin Project on nuclear arms control, ?05; http://www.iranwatch.org

A2?Israeli disclosure

A. Iranian nuclearization causes Israel to disclose its nuclear capabilities
McInnis ?05 (cited above)

B. Israeli disclosure spurs regional arms race and mutually assured 
destruction within 5 years; Farr ?99; No.2 USAF Counterproliferation Center 
Air War College; http://64.233.179.104

A3- The Caspian

Scenario 1?Iran-Russia Conflict
Scenario 1?Iran-Russia Conflict

A. Iran will exploit its nuclear advantage to jockey for control of the 
Caspian
Schake & Yaphe ?01; ?The Strategic Implications of a Nuclear Armed Iran.? 
http://scholar.google.com

B. Iranian intervention in Caspian =s war with Russia

Zaborski ?05; TWQ: Reassessing Deterrence, Vol.28, n3, p.153, Summer 05
C. This leads to Russian nuclear first-strikes on Iran
Zaborski ?05

Scenario 2?Russian Economy

A. Iran will cutoff Russia from Caspian oil revenues
Zaborski ?05

B. Oil revenues are key to Russian economic stability
Moscow Times, Dec. 9, 04; http://www.themoscowtimes.com

C. Russian economic collapse causes nuclear civil war
John David, Foreign Affairs, J/F ?99




A4- Turkish Nationalism

A. Nuclear Iran =s nationalism and instability in Turkey
Jon Feiser, 1-28-05; http://www.pinr.com

B. Turkey is a pivot state; instability hurts US interests in the Caspian
Larabee & Lesser ?05; http://www.rand.org

C. Stable Turkey is key to prevent Russian military expansion in the Caspian
Khalilizhad, Larabee, & Lesser, ?00; http://www.rand.org

D. Russian military adventurism =s nuclear war; Cohen ?96; Heritage 
Foundation Backgrounder #1065;




Capital RS Affirmative

Plan: In order to substantially increase diplomatic and economic pressure on 
the PRC in Human Rights, the USFG should renounce support for the campaign 
against UIGHURS, including removing UIGHURS from the state department 
terrorist list and associated diplomatic cover.  Additionally, international 
donors to China should be notified of the campaign.

Solvency
US must pressure China to open dialogue even if they resist ? Schwartz 04
Pressuring China by exposing it?s policies 2 international organizations is 
the only way 2 stop genocide: becqueli 02
Security since 9/11 threaten global civil war ? fundamentally incompatible 
with democracy and threaten growing democratic challenge 2 display paradigm 
of control.  We advocate paradigm of prevention and preventing conditions 
that create security threats.  Legal prosecution of the UIGHUR rather than a 
paradigm of brutal response ? Agamben 2002

Advantages ? Terror Talk justified repressive campaigns of ethnic cleansing 
? pushs UIGHURS into Al qaeda ? Stephe Schwartz 2004
US Sponsoring anti-uighur campaigns
Enlarging Al qaida is last thing we need ? nuclear terrorism would destroy 
society ? chesney ?97

Human rights adv ? us reversal of recognition leads to HIV rates, 
environmental destruction, forced migration and propaganda ? Kurlantzick 
2004
Not enough for the Chinese government to displace UIGHURS ? they are wiping 
out the culture too ? Kutty ?99

Adv. 3 ? Genocide
This is genocide ? Kurlantzick 2004, Balancing security equations is a bad 
paradigm


Concordia ES

Increase diplomatic and economic pressure on PRC in area of Human rights
Resolution can be an alternative point of power and discursive enactment 
full of political meaning and significance.  We speak the resolution in a 
different way, recognizing interactions between dominant discourse and 
dominated discourse
Shapiro 2004  ?methods and nations? p. 17-19

Our misinterpretation of the resolution is outside traditional norms opening 
space of discursive contestation ? Bhabha 94

Post-colonial project of contestation

Concordia FF 1AC (Dr. David Hingstman)


China opposes now?  Blocks websites.
How does US funding put pressure on China.  Form of leverage of 
China.Shaprio ev.  Beaten in prison because threat to the toursim industry
pressures on govt who allowed bllood selling schemes
find comprehensive ed at NGO level
moral obligation to the other?  Unfinished world of openness.  Bush 
administration makes that judgment now
How does giving funding solve?

I.  IDEOLOGICAL PURITY
First, the US has refused to assist international efforts for comprehensive 
sex education because of ideological politics of the Bush Administration 
that sacrifice program effectiveness.  Hunter, Daily Badger, 03-10-05  
faith-based program  political legitimation     commitment to ideological 
rigor over science   (Lexis)
Bush Admin goes further, preventing funding distibution to groups that are 
ambiguous about sex workers, alienating victims and furthering the spread of 
the disease   Dhar 05/27/05  Penny Saunders  Network of Sex Work Projects  
www.ipsnews.net/news/asp?idnews=28848
programs in SQ are missionary imperialism front    Kaplan 04  Nation  
12/20/04  "vivid display"  unilateralism  corporatism

The USFG should provide Funding as requested to NGOs operating in the PRC 
tha tprovide comprehensive sex education.  The USFG will diplomatically 
request that the PRC discontinue harassment of persons involved in NGOs 
providing comprehensive sex education.  Intent

II  PERSONS WITH AIDS
Migrant sex worders are the key risk group, moving throughout the country 
impossible to track as they are completely outside of the existing social 
safety net  Gill 02 www.csis.org/hill/ts020909gill.pdf  other sexual 
partners  HIV/AIDS
Frost 10/20/03  CECC Haering  "well-tolerated"  "side effects"
program dropouts lead to drug resistance   widespread development
these mutations are untreatable  Gill 04 Hearing before Subcom on Aisa nd 
the Pacific, HIV/AIDS in Asia 7/21/04  "substandard quality"
grassroots ortganizaations hampered by homophobia.  Threat to economic 
wellbeing  Shapiro 05 www/365gay.com/newscon05/06/061505china.htm   
beatrings that Chinese govt  1000s affected by HIV.  Antiobescenity  100,000 
children alone  Sara Davis  "human rights watch"

US leadership key to preventing crisis  Cravero  04  HIV/AIDS in Asia 
mounting an effective global response  concerted action  explosion of HIV on 
the continent  tipping point  US and other key doners  US long and 
productive relationship

III  Organization competency
Grassroots orgs exist and are able to significantly abate discrimination and 
disease.  The US should provide resources for NGOs in China.  The spirit is 
willing, the pocket book is weak  Wan Yanhai   
www.csis.org/hill/ts020909gill.pdf 02  HIV AIDS  Chinese politics  
preventing discrimination  activities  lack resources
US support for comp sex ed NGOs is effective  Cravero in HIV/AIDS in Asia 
hearing 7/21/05 04  necessary leadership and resources  nearly 100,000 per 
year
success in China will spur programs in Russia and India Gill Morrison and 
Thompson 04  "Defusing China's Time Bomb"  Reports of the CSIS delegation to 
China, 4-18-04  CSIS Website, p. 6  historic opportunity.  Innovative US 
policies and support to China on HIV/AIDS will contribute significantly to 
the formulation of a "Second Wave" strategy  generalized epidemic
our ethical and political action is undecidable.  We affirm it as part of 
our ethical obligation to an unfinished world of open-ness.  Simply stepping 
entirely outside the system is doomed to failure . Undecidable politics has 
unique transgressive possibilities as is opens the system to critique while 
simultaneously engaging it.  Newman 03 Philosophy and Social Criticism, 27:3 
  deconstruction  outside is complex and surprising.  Absolute 
transgression.  Cancel itself out.  Exclude its other.  Thoroughly ethical 
gesture.  Ethics of alterity
We should coalesce political approaches with ethical and political 
questions.  Political decisions are unavoidable, such decisions can be used 
as an opening for new modes of thought  Derrida, NEGOTIATIONS 02 pp. 309-311 
  political and ethical  moment at which one can act.  Space of decision 
irreducible  being with other  opening  ethical and the political
NGOs bring wider political and social chagne to China  Nieburg, Tstiony 
before CECC  10/20/03   health workers, teachers, parents, and as many 
others as possible  goal will be decision-making  strong emphasis on 
increasing HIV awareness
NGOs develop civil society in China   Gill 04  HIV/AIDS in Asia  7/21/04need 
to work more  civil society in China  funding and political encouragement.  
As well as drug users
regional efforts are most important  Cravero 04   HIV/AIDS in Asia 7/21/04   
religious organizations, regional AIDS efforts  strong ties to Asia  AIDS 
effort  multiministerial level  strengthen poltiical and civil society.  
Beyond the national governments to a broad, multicultural response

Affirmative Team: Emporia CR
Negative Team:

[C

ADVANTAGE 1: THE ROCK (Space)
ADVANTAGE 2: THE HUG (U.S.-Sino Relations)


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Plan:
The United States Federal Government should substantially increase 
diplomatic pressure to become a limited partner in the International Space 
Station and economic pressure by amending the Export Administration Act to 
establish dual use space technology export controls on the People's Republic 
of China. Funding and enforcement through normal means.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

OBSERVATION 2: SOLVENCY

THE U.S. SHOULD ADOPT A LIMITED ENGAGEMENT POLICY WITH CHINA OVER SPACE 
COOPERATION THAT DOES NOT DIRECTLY AID OR HINDER CHINA?S SPACE PROGRAM AND 
FOCUSES COOP ON SPECIFIC PROJECTS. THIS WOULD PREVENT CHINA FROM 
CAPITALIZING ON TECH TRANSFERS FOR MILITARY UPGRADES AND ACTS AS A 
CONFIDENCE BUILDING MEASURES FOR SINO-U.S. RELATIONS

Dr. Larry Wortzel, vice president for foreign policy & defense studies of 
The Heritage Foundation, 2005
[Ad Astra, ?The Rules of Engagement: The Russia Model,? Spring, 2005, p. 
24-25, JT]

?Despite fears about the?on board the ISS?




THE UNITED STATES FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD BRING CHINA ON BOARD THE 
INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION. CONGRESS SHOULD AMEND THE EXPORT ADMINISTRATION 
ACT TO ESTABLISH EXPORT CONTROLS ON ALL DUAL-USE SPACE TECHNOLOGY FOR CHINA. 
THE ISS PRESENTS A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO ADVANCE BIOMEDICAL SPACE RESEARCH 
AND CHINESE SPACE TRANSPARENCY

Dr. Larry Wortzel, vice president for foreign policy & defense studies of 
The Heritage Foundation, 2005
[Ad Astra, ?The Rules of Engagement: The Russia Model,? Spring, 2005, p. 
24-25, JT]

?There are a couple of natural?.increasing cooperation with China?




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

BSERVATION 1: INHERENCY AND HARMS

CHINA ALREADY FEELS LIKE AN OUTSIDER ON SPACE. THE U.S. IS NOT
ACTING TOWARD COOP
TariqMalik 2004 ***This evidence uses gender biased language we do not 
read!!!!
[http://www.space.com/news/us_china_040428.html, ?U.S. Snubbed China's Offer 
for Space Cooperation:
'Technology Not Mature',? 28 April, Accessed 8-1-05,

?Despite joining the elite?.was not mature?


THE 2K4 MEETING WAS ONLY NASA-SPONSERED & INCLUDED A DOZEN
OTHER COUNTRIES. IT WAS NOT A SIGNAL OF NEW SINO-U.S. SPACE COOP

CARREAU & REINERT 2K4 [MARK CARREAU, PATTY REINERT, The Houston Chronicle, 
Nov. 19, Pg. A1, ?HEADLINE: NASA MAKES FIRST OVERTURE TO CHINA; Beijing 
takes part in a workshop with 30 other countries)

?With the blessing of the US?will be a partnership?

Plan:
The United States Federal Government should substantially increase 
diplomatic pressure to become a limited partner in the International Space 
Station and economic pressure by amending the Export Administration Act to 
establish dual use space technology export controls on the People's Republic 
of China. Funding and enforcement through normal means.


ADVANTAGE 1: THE ROCK

THE U.S. BAN IS WHAT KEEPS CHINA OUT OF THE SPACE STATION. CHINESE 
PARTICIPATION WOULD ALLOW US TO OVERCOME DELAYS, FUNDING SHORTFALLS AND 
EXPANDS EXPLORATION
The Sinomania! Center For Research On Modern China, 2004
[http://www.sinomania.com/CHINANEWS/space_for_us_all.htm, ?Space For Us All, 
Why the USA should let China in the International Space Station,? Accessed 
8-8-05, JT]

?China and the ESA are currenty?human space exploration?

SINO-U.S. SPACE COOP REINVOGORATES PUBLIC WILL FOR SPACE & SOLVES CURRENT 
PITFALLS OF THE SPACE STATION
Migl, 2003 [Hayden Migl, The Battalion, UniversityWire, October 27, 
HEADLINE: U.S. should join China to promote space exploration,

?President John F. Kennedy?over-budget space outpost?
THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION IS ESSENTIAL TO PERMANENT HUMAN SETTLEMENTS, 
WHICH ARE THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID INEVITABLE EXTINCTION FROM ASTEROIDS
Chris KRIDLER 2003
[HEADLINE: Public missing space message, FLORIDA TODAY (Brevard County, FL), 
November 19, p. 1,

?Kennedy space center director?.would be the clincher?

OUR FUTURE SURVIVAL IN SPACE DEPENDS ON THE UNDERSTANDING WE GET FROM SPACE 
STATION EXPERIMENTS
Paul Hensarling, 2004
[The Daily Cougar, University Wire, February 6, HEADLINE: ISS vital to 
future space travel,

?If we are even?.enthusiastic about mars?



SPACE COLONIZATION IS VIRTUALLY INEVITABLE
Diane Clay, 2005
[The Daily Oklahoman, April 26, Pg. 1D, HEADLINE: COLONIZATION; Idea moving 
toward reality, JT]

?The idea of building space?with specialized skills?



?We must get off this planet?..out into space?


ADVANTAGE 2: THE HUG

FIRST, A DECLINE IN U.S. GLOBAL DOMINANCE IS INEVITABLE, WITH CHINA WAITING 
IN THE WINGS TO FILL THE VOID OF SPACE DEVELOPMENT. MULTIPLE SCENARIOS COULD 
DERAIL GROWING ECONOMIC RELATIONS, BUT OPENING COOPERATIVE CHANNELS WITH 
CHINA ON SPACE SECURES THE PARTNERSHIP
Duignan-Cabrera 2K5 *This evidence uses gender biased language we do not 
read or support!
[Anthony Duignan-Cabrera, Editorial Director of Imaginova Corporation's 
Consumer Media Division & editor of Ad Astra Magazine, Ad Astra, ?Special 
Report: Emerging China, Engaging China,? Spring, p. 20, JT]

?As the dawn breaks on the??communication and cooperation?


A U.S. INVITATION TO COOP IN SPACE IMPROVES SINO-U.S. RELATIONS
LeonardDavid 2003
[http://www.space.com/news/china_cooperation_030121.html, ?Space 
Cooperation: The China Factor,? 05 January,
Accessed 7-29-05, JT]

?In light of recent?.a time,? Cheng said.?



?To be sure?.survival of the world?




Emporia ?????? Taiwan Aff

OBSERVATION ONE ? COLLISION COURSE



FIRST - U.S. POLICY OVER TAIWAN WILL FORCE AN INEVITABLE WAR  ? SECURITY 
GAURANTEES PUSH TAIWANESE SEPARATISM ? WITH NUCLEAR RESULTS

HELBORN 2004 (Nicolas, Independent Institute, Commentary ? Aug 30, 
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1352, acc: 9/2, KD)


AND?THE TAIWAN RELATIONS ACT  IS U.S. MORAL IMPERIALISM ? IT IMPOSES U.S. 
DOMESTIC LAW ON CHINESE SOVEREIGNTY AND VIOLATES U.S. POSITIONS IN THE THREE 
COMMINUQUES ? HARMING RELATIONS WITH THE PRC

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Avoiding another no-win war? 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FB10Ad06.html,    Feb 10, accessed: sept 
12, 05, KD)

AND?THE NEAR PASSAGE OF THE TAIWAN ENHANCED SECURITY ACT CONTINUES U.S. 
PROVOCATION ? PRESIDENTS FLAUNT THE CONSTITUTION IN ILLEGAL WARS ALL THE 
TIME ? BEIJING HAS TO PLAN FOR A U.S. INTERVENTION IN ITS AFFAIRS

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Avoiding another no-win war? 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FB10Ad06.html,    Feb 10, accessed: sept 
12, 05, KD)

Thus the plan?

The United States Federal Government should substantially increase its 
diplomatic and economic pressure on the People?s Republic of China by 
decoupling all defense commitments by the United States toward Taiwan.  The 
United States will repeal all executive orders and congressional legislation 
toward Taiwan that support United States defense guarantees and security 
assistance towards Taiwan and assure the People?s Republic of China via 
diplomatic channels that the United States will not militarily or 
politically intervene in affairs between Taiwan and the People?s Republic of 
China.  Taiwan will not receive any form of United States security 
assistance or foreign aid for the purpose of weapons purchases.

Ask if you don?t understand, we?ll be happy to tell you what this means.

ADVANTAGE ONE: MISCAL

A SUBPOINT . U.S. PROVOCATION

FIRST, OUR CURRENT POLICY CAUSES MISCAL? BEIJING MIGHT OVERESTIMATE BUSH?S 
FLIP FLOPS ? AND MISREAD INTENTIONS

CARPENTER 2004 (Ted, vice president for defense and foreign policy studies 
at the Cato Institute, President Bush's Taiwan Policy: Immoral and 
Dangerous, http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2592, March 31, acc: 
8/13, KD)

AND?OUR SECURITY GUARANTEES DRIVE THE NEED FOR WAR PREPARATIONS AND 
ELIMINATE DETERRENCE - INTELL FLIGHTS FOR TACTICAL INTELLIGENCE TO DEFEND 
TAIWAN INCREASE RISKS OF MISCAL

JOHNSON 2001 (Chalmers, Pres. Japan Policy Research Institute, The Nation, 
May 14, L/N, KD)
AND?U.S. TAIWAN POLICY LEGITIMATES THE USE OF FORCE BY BOTH SIDES INCREASING 
THE RISK

JOHNSON CONTINUES
(IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH)

AND?U.S. MORAL IMPERIALISM BACKFIRES ? IT ENCOURAGES TAIWANESE SEPERATISM 
AND CHINESE NATIONALISM OVER THE CIVIL WAR ISSUE ? WORST OF ALL WORLDS

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Taiwan a deal breaker for U.S. Security? 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/ China/FB12Ad05.html, Feb 12,  accessed: 
9/12/05, KD)

AND?PEACE BECOMES IRRELEVANT ? U.S. WAR PREPARATIONS OVER TAIWAN BECOME A 
SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY LIKE VIETNAM

PAN 2004  (Chengxin, Department of Political Science and International 
Relations, Faculty of Arts, Australian National University, ?The "China 
threat" in American self-imagination: the discursive construction of other 
as power politics?, Alternatives: Global, Local, Political, June 1)  KD

AND?.U.S. INTERVENTION PROMOTES A POLICY OF SEPERATISM AGAINST CHINA ? 
BEIJING FEARS AN EXPLOSION OF INTERNAL INSTABILTY AND WILL PURSUE ITS TAIWAN 
POLICY AT ALL COSTS FOR IT?S OWN SURVIVAL

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Potential tragedy of miscalculation,? 
http://atimes01.atimes.com/atimes/ China/FB11Ad02.html, Feb 11, accessed: 
sept 12, 05, KD)

AND HERE?S OUR IMPACTS?.THE B SUBPOINT

FIRST ? MOST LIKELY IMPACT - ALL SIDES MISPERCEIVE THE ISSUE NO ONE AGREES 
WHAT THE ?STATUS QUO? IS TO MAINTAIN

CARPENTER 2005 (Ted, vice president for defense and foreign policy studies 
at the Cato Institute, Conflicting Conceptions of the Taiwan Status Quo, 
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3742, April 21, acc: 8/13, KD)

AND?ESCALATION IS QUICK - AND? HAS FIVE WARRANTS - TAIWANESE ESCALATION, 
THINKABILITY, LACK OF A REAL RESEARCH BASE FOR YOUR AUTHORS, POOR U.S. 
JUDGEMENT AND HISTORY DENY YOUR TAKEOUTS ? TAIWAN IS THE ONLY RISK OF 
NUCLEAR WAR BETWEEN SUPERPOWERS

CHINA POST 2005 (Jan 28, http://www.chinapost.com.tw/ backissue/taiwan/ 
detail.asp? ID=57555&GRP=B, acc 9/2, KD)

AND EVEN IF YOU WIN A WARRANT -  IF NO ONE WANTS TO ESCALATE ? WE STILL WIN 
NATIONALISM AND LEGITIMIACY OVERWHELM CONTAINMENT AND DETERRENCE AND MEAN WE 
GO NUCLEAR

JOHNSON 2001 (Chalmers, Pres. Japan Policy Research Institute, The Nation, 
May 14, L/N, KD)



AND? EXPERTS AND HISTORY CONCLUDE AFFIRMATIVE - CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT 
WOULD BE OVER ? RUSSIA WOULD ATTACK EUROPE, INDIA AND PAKISTAN WOULD GO AT 
IT, ASIA WOULD JOIN IN AS THE NUCLEAR FIRESTORM SWEPT OVER THE GLOBE

STRAITS TIMES 2000 (Singapore edition, l/n, JJ)

ADVANTAGE TWO: THE POLITICS OF FEAR

A SUBPOINT ? THE YELLOW PERIL

FIRST - OUR FEAR OF CHINA IS ROOTED IN RACIST CONCERNS ? WE USE THAT 
CONSTRUCTION TO APPEAL TO FEARS OF OUR OWN DECLINE AND PUSH WAR AS AN OPTION 
BECAUSE OF OUR OWN INHERENT SUPERIORITY

OUR TAIWAN POLICY IS ROOTED IN FEAR OF THE ?YELLOW PERIL?

CHAI 02 (Winberg Chai, Prof. of political science @ U Wyoming, Fall, ?The 
Taiwan Factor in U.S.-China Relations: An Interpretation,? pg. 134, Raul)

AND? WE WILL USE OUR POWER TO DESTROY THAT OTHER

SANTOS ?93
Boaventura de Sousa Santos, Dir. of the Center for Social Studies at the 
Univ. of Coimbra, 2003
[http://bad.eserver.org/issues/2003/63/santos.html, BAD SUBJECTS, Issue #63, 
April, Accessed 8-24, 2005, JT]

B SUBPOINT ? SELF FULFILLING WARS

IDENTITIES IMPACT POLICY - OUR TAIWAN POLICY IS BASED ON THE NOTION OF THE 
CHINESE THREAT AND WE DO NOT REFLECT HOW THOSE POLICIES ACTUALLY CAUSE THE 
WAR THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SOLVE ? THE DISCOURSE OF THREAT OVERRIDES ALL 
CONCERNS

PAN 2004  (Chengxin, Department of Political Science and International 
Relations, Faculty of Arts, Australian National University, ?The "China 
threat" in American self-imagination: the discursive construction of other 
as power politics?, Alternatives: Global, Local, Political, June 1)

CASE SOLVES THE WARFIGHTING MENTALITY - UNITED STATES? CURRENT 
ALLIANCE/DETERRENCE POLICY IS BACKWARDS ? THE KEY TO U.S. STRENGTH IN THE 
PACIFIC IS WAR AVOIDANCE NOT WARFIGHTING ? EVEN IF WE WIN, THINKING ON 
TAIWAN LEADS TO ENDLESS FUTURE WARS

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Taiwan a deal breaker for U.S. Security? 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/ China/FB12Ad05.html, Feb 12,  accessed: 
9/12/05, KD)

AND? THESE THREAT ARGUMENTS ARE NOT VALUE FREE AND OBJECTIVE - THEY ARE ONLY 
MIRRORS OR OUR OWN ACTIONS AND WE IMPOSE OUR WESTERN UNDERSTANDING ON CHINA 
? OUR POLICIES LEGITIMATE POWER POLITICS IN RELATIONS AND CREATES SELF 
FULTILLING NOTIONS OF THREAT AND SOLUTION ? THIS RHETORICAL POSITIVISM STOPS 
THE EVOLUTION OF ALTERNATIVE FRAMEWORKS AND UNDERSTANDING

PAN 2004  (Chengxin, Department of Political Science and International 
Relations, Faculty of Arts, Australian National University, ?The "China 
threat" in American self-imagination: the discursive construction of other 
as power politics?, Alternatives: Global, Local, Political, June 1)



AND?WE MUST OVERCOME OUR FEAR OF CHINA TO LIVE TOGETHER IN PEACE OR WE RISK 
GLOBAL EXTINCTION

RATLIFF ?95


OBSERVATION TWO - SOLVENCY

FIRST - WE MUST REJECT THE CURRENT POLICY FRAMEWORK TO QUESTION AND STEP 
AWAY  TO EMBRACE A NEW DISCURSIVE DEBATE ABOUT CHINA POLICY NOT ROOTED IN 
THREATS

PAN 2004  (Chengxin, Department of Political Science and International 
Relations, Faculty of Arts, Australian National University, ?The "China 
threat" in American self-imagination: the discursive construction of other 
as power politics?, Alternatives: Global, Local, Political, June 1)

AND?CHINESE PROBLEMS NEED CHINESE SOLUTIONS ? DECOUPLING STOPS AN ARMS RACE 
THAT FUELS A BIGGER INEVITABLE WAR ? DETERRENCE WON?T STOP CHINA FROM 
DEFENDING ITS OWN TERRITORY AND OUR ALLIES DON?T SUPPORT OUR POLICY

LIU 2005   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/ 
GD05Ad07.html, Apr 5, accessed: 9/11, KD)

WE SOLVE QUICKLY ? PEACE WILL COME BEFORE THE 2008 OLYMPICS WITH THE PLAN  
EIGHT WARRANTS ? THE 2004 YUAN VOTE ? LACK OF ASIAN SUPPORT FOR INDEPENDENCE 
? THE 2004 ELECTION ? DECREASES IN DEFENSE SPENDING ? BEIJINGS SOFTENING IN 
THE 2004 WHITE PAPER ? THE 2005 JOINT STATEMENT ? REACTION TO OPENING OF 
TRANSPORT AND THE EASING OF THE INVESTMENT BAN  MEAN THAT AN OPENING WOULD 
BE ACCEPTED WHEN YOU VOTE AFF

JOHNSON 2005 (Chalmers, President ? Japan Policy Research Institute,No 
Longer the Lone Superpower: Coming to terms with China, JPRI working paper 
105 - MARCH http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=2259, Acc: 8/31, KD)

DECOUPLING  THE DEFENSE RELATIONSHIP SOLVES THE TAIWAN ISSUE AND JUMPSTARTS 
A COOPERATIVE RELATIONSHIP ? IT IS THE PRIMARY CHINESE GLOBAL CONCERN ? AND 
BUSH?S POLICY OF PROVOCATION IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER

LIU 2004   (Henry, Prof Urban and reg devel. ? UCLA, Chair ? NY based 
investment group, Asia Times, ?Potential tragedy of miscalculation,? 
http://atimes01.atimes.com/atimes/ China/FB11Ad02.html, Feb 11, accessed: 
sept 12, 05, KD)


Affirmative Team: Iowa (All Teams)
Negative Team:

[C

CONTENTION TWO:  THE EAGLE  SOARS ? WE ISOLATE TWO SCENARIOS FOR HEGEMONIC 
DECLINE

SUBPOINT A ? ECONOMIC COMPETITIVENESS
SUBPOINT B ? TECHNOLOGICAL LEAD
SUBPOINT C ? HEGEMONY IS GOOD
CONTENTION THREE: WTO CREDIBILITY


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

The United States Federal Government shall bring a formal complaint against 
the People?s Republic of China under the World Trade Organization dispute 
settlement mechanisms for failure to fulfill its obligations under the 
Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights.  The 
United States Federal Government shall threaten tariffs on imported goods 
from the People?s Republic of China that are equal to the damages 
articulated in the complaint given to the World Trade Organization.  If the 
World Trade Organization rules in favor of the United States, the United 
States Federal Government shall enact tariffs on imported goods from the 
People?s Republic of China in equal to the amount specified by the World 
Trade Organization?s ruling.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

BRINGING A COMPLAINT TO THE WTO AGAINST CHINA?S INTELLECTUAL PIRACY IS A 
CRITICAL FORM OF DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC PRESSURE THAT CAN CREDIBLY FORCE 
CHINA TO COMPLY WITH THEIR WTO COMMITMENTS.

JOHN J. TKACIK, HERITAGE FOUNDATION CHINA POLICY RESEARCH FELLOW, OCT 23 
2003
HTTP://WWW.HERITAGE.ORG/RESEARCH/TRADEANDFOREIGNAID/BG1698.CFM, BACKGROUNDER 
#1689
China has been a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) for almost two 
years

EMPIRICALLY, WHEN THE CHINESE HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF 
IPR LAWS, THEY DO IT.  A WTO CASE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE CHINESE TO TAKE 
ACTION ON PIRACY.

U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, HOWARD BERMAN 2005
FEDERAL NEWS SERVICE, MAY 17
As noted by the Chamber of Commerce in the year ending




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
CONTENTION ONE: THE CURSE OF THE BLACK MARKET

DESPITE RECENT CHINESE ACTIONS TO INCREASE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHT 
ENFORCEMENT, PIRACY IS ON THE RISE IN CHINA NOW AND WILL ONLY GET WORSE ? 
THIS IS THREATENING US-CHINA TRADE RELATIONS, US INDUSTRIAL GROWTH, AND 
OPENS THE POSSIBILITY FOR A WTO CASE AGAINST CHINA.

STATES NEWS SERVICE IN 2005 MAY 18, LEXIS
"The production and export by Chinese manufacturers of" and "criminal 
penalties were imposed and carried out."

THE EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING THAT THE CHINESE HAVE NOT MET THEIR WTO 
COMMITMENTS ? THE US TRADE REPRESENTATIVE HAS ALL THE EVIDENCE THEY NEED TO 
BRING A CASE AGAINST CHINA IN THE WTO, YET THEY CONTINUE TO NOT PURSUE THE 
ISSUE AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR COMPETITIVENESS.

BEN CHOATE, FORMER REFORM PARTY CANDIDATE AND GWU ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, MAY 
12 2005
NEW YORK TIMES
"On joining the WTO, Chinese leaders assumed certain obligations to the 
other 147 member states"

CONTENTION TWO:  THE EAGLE  SOARS ? WE ISOLATE TWO SCENARIOS FOR HEGEMONIC 
DECLINE

SUBPOINT A ? ECONOMIC COMPETITIVENESS

THE US MUST TAKE ACTION NOW OR SEE ITS ECONOMIC HEALTH DETERIORATE.  PIRACY 
IN CHINA IS UNDERMINING US ECONOMIC GROWTH AND COMPETITIVENESS, AND WILL 
SOON CAUSE US TO LOSE OUR POSITION AS THE GLOBAL ECONOMIC LEADER.

U.S. REPRESENATIVE CLIFF STEARNS IN 2005
FDCH, June 9
U.S.-China trade began to grow shortly after diplomatic relations were 
established in 1979, paving the way for a bilateral trade

COMPETITIVENESS AND PRODUCTIVITY IS CRITICAL TO OVERALL US HEGEMONY.

KHALILZAD, RAND CORP., SPRING 95
[WASHINGTON QUARTERLY]
The United States is unlikely to preserve its military and technological 
dominance

DON?T BOTHER WITH KRUGMAN ? COMPETITIVENESS ROCKS AND IMPROVES US HEGEMONY 
IN SEVERAL WAYS.

HUNTINGTON, HARVARD IR PROFESSOR, SPRING 93
[INTERNATIONAL SECURITY, VOL. 17, NO. 4]
In the coming years, the principal conflicts of interests involving

SUBPOINT B ? TECHNOLOGICAL LEAD

PIRACY IN CHINA IS ALSO DEVASTATING TO US TECHNOLOGICAL COMPETITIVENESS ? 
THE US MUST USE THE DISPUTE SETTLEMENT PROCESS NOW TO SOLVE IPR ABUSES OR 
RISK THE COLLAPSE OF ITS SUPERPOWER ROLE.

CHOATE, FORMER REFORM PARTY CANDIDATE AND GWU ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, 2005
HOT PROPERTY: THE STEALING OF IDEAS IN AN AGE OF GLOBALIZATION, PP. 286
Strikingly, the massive theft of U.S.-owned intellectual properties as a 
contributing cause to America's technological decline has






THE LOSS OF OUR TECHNOLOGICAL LEADERSHIP TO CHINA WILL ALSO UNIQUELY 
UNDERMINE OUR HEGEMONY ? ALL ASPECTS OF OUR HEGEMONY DEPEND ON A 
TECHNOLOGICAL EDGE AND CHINA WILL USE OUR LOSS OF TECHNOLOGICAL LEADERSHIP 
TO PURSUE A BELLICOSE FOREIGN POLICY.

TONELSON, US BUSINESS & INDUSTRY COUNCIL RESEARCH FELLOW, MARCH 31 2004
FDCH, House Energy & Commerce Committee Testimony
World technological leadership in particular is largely responsible for 
America's superpower status and all the strategic

SUBPOINT C ? HEGEMONY IS GOOD

LOSS OF HEGEMONY LEADS TO THE RISE OF GLOBAL RIVAL AND GLOBAL NUCLEAR 
EXCHANGE.

KHALILZAD, RAND CORP., SPRING 95
[WASHINGTON QUARTERLY]
Under the third option, the United States

US PULLOUT ALSO GUARANTEES MULTIPLE SCENARIOS FOR NUCLEAR WAR.

HIRSCH 2003

CONTENTION THREE: WTO CREDIBILITY

THE US HASN?T USED THE DISPUTE SETTLEMENT PROCESS TO FORCE CHINA TO COMPLY 
WITH THE WTO ? THIS IS UNDERMINING OUR CREDIBILITY IN FORCING CHINA TO 
COMPLY WITH WTO STANDARDS AND IN THE WTO PROCESS.

CHOATE, FORMER REFORM PARTY CANDIDATE AND GWU ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, 2005
Hot Property: The Stealing of Ideas in an Age of Globalization, pp. 235
Strangely, the United States, which fought so hard and paid so much to put 
TRIPS into place

CHINA?S ACCESSION INTO THE WTO WILL BE THE FOCAL POINT OF  THE WTO 
NEGOTIATIONS IN HONG KONG.

FREEMAN, USTR ASSISTANT, APRIL 14 2005
FDCH
As China's integration into the world economy deepens, it becomes

WTO CREDIBILITY IS ON THE BRINK NOW ? THE UPCOMING MEETINGS ON HONG KONG 
WILL BE A CRITICAL TEST FOR THE WTO?S SURVIVAL.

AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE 2005 July 31 Lexis
As the World Trade Organization struggles to break down more global

SUCCESSFUL IMPLEMENTATION OF WTO RULES IN CHINA IS CRITICAL TO THEIR 
ACCESSION AND THE SURVIVAL OF THE WORLD TRADING SYSTEM ? IT WILL REKINDLE 
INTEREST IN THE WTO AND IMPROVE ITS LEGITIMACY.

MASTEL, GLOBAL ECONOMIC POLICY PROGRAM DIRECTOR, JULY 1 2000
GEORGETOWN LAW REVIEW
In the end, these initiatives may also rekindle interest in the WTO

A SUCCESSFUL WORLD TRADING SYSTEM IS CRITICAL TO SOLVING NUCLEAR WINTER AND 
PEACE WITH CHINA.

COPLEY NEWS SERVICE 99 Dec 1
For decades, many children in America and other countries went to

Kansas KP (Aff)
vs. Wayne State NP (Neg)
Round 5 @ UNI
Jeff Jarman ? Judge

1AC

Obs. 1 Inh

China still prolif Missiles, enforcement issues ? serial proliferators
Inside Missile Defense March 16, 2005

Current policy not include parent companies ? loophole, u.s. sanctions 
currently no teeth
Milhollin 2005
http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/testimonies/2005/US-China-comm-031005.htm

Plan
Sanctions govt owned parent companies.  Penalties ban access capital markets


Solvency

Must be realistic about China?s policty

Pressure companies --> solve root problem of sanctions.  Solve best.  
Funding subsidiaries ? effects spread solvency ? China?s foreign stock 
exchange ? China is becoming more vulnerable to economic pressure ? threaten 
profitability.  Ban exports from to U.S.

Empirically Economic pressure is best to solve ? U.S> markets key to China 
commitments to non-proliferation
-NPT example
-Pakistan sales are example

ADV. 1  _ Ind/Pak

Scen 1
China is selling BM to Pakistan, nuclear weapons

--> Indo-Pak arms race = escalate to nuclear war (1998)
Fisher & Dori 1998
http://www.heritage.org/Research/AsiaandthePacific/EM532.cfm


War between Ind/Pak in Kashmir threatens entire planet ? even U.S.
Ghulam Nabi 2001
www.pakistanlink.com/Letters/2001/July/13/05.html


Scen 2 Lead

Prolif to Pakistan is gateway for China to middle east hegemony for China
Ashok Kapur ? Jamestown Foundation
?The New Indian factor in China?s proliferation Policy? 
http://www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?search=1&volume_id=395&issue_id=2923&article_id=23621


China prolif = influence in ME checks U.S. hegemony (counter balance u.s.)

States proliferate to get U.S. concessions ? decreases U.S. 
alliances/hegemony ? hurts u.s. readiness to commit forces
Ritcheson 1997
http://www.nwc.navy.mi./press/review/1997/summer/art3su97.htm


Khalilzad 95 ? leadership key to check nuclear war

Scen 3  Oil

Chinese leadership in Middle East --> oil competition

Middle east oil competition guarantees war

U.S> - China war --> extinction
Straits Times 2000
?china were to retaliate?
?europes political mandate?
?short of using nuclear weapons?

Adv. 2 ? Terrorism

China prolif key to sending Nuclear Weapons to Al qaeda

Nuclear Terrorism = extinction (nuclear war) Mohamed Sid-Ahmed 2004 
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/705/op5.htm Aug. 26


Affirmative Team: Kansas BU
Negative Team:

[C
World Economy-Dollar Collapse Scenario
U.S. Leadership/Hegemony
               -- Steel Industry Collapse/Maritime Power
               -- U.S. Competitiveness



Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

[ Plan text not yet completed ? 9.15.05 ]

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

revaluing china?s currency is the only way to save the pending economic 
collapse only economic pressure can solve, a strategy of cooperation will 
fail.
30 August 2005. Christopher Smallwood is a director of Lombard Street 
Associates. http://news.independent.co.uk/business/comment/article309031.ece

CHINA WILL SAY YES ? THEY NEED ACCESS TO US MARKETS
MANICHI DAILY NEWS 8/23 2K5, ?Debt load makes Americans vulnerable to rising 
rates, foreign currency imbalances?
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/business/archive/news/2005/08/23/20050823p2g00m0bu005000c.html

China?s revaluation will rebalance the economy and lead to modeling within 
the region
Xinhua Financial Network News, 6/26 (?China revaluation gives Asia 
currencies, global economy room to move?, lexisnexis.com, 6/26/2005)

FORTUNATELY, EVEN IF CHINA SAYS NO, THEY WILL CONFORM TO A MORE OPEN TRADING 
REGIME THAT WILL DECREASE THE TRADE DEFICIT
Venugopal 2K3?Look beyond yuan revaluation? 
http://www.blonnet.com/2003/11/05/stories/2003110500040800.htm



Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
CHINA HAS APPEASED THE US WITH A SMALL CHANGE IN THE YUAN, THIS HAS 
UNFORTUNATELY PUT A HOLD ON US DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC PRESSURE  - A LARGER 
MOVE IS NEEDED FIELD 8/12K5, ?CAN CHINA SILENCE ITS CRITICS?? JOURNAL OF 
COMMERCE, LN
ADVANTAGE 1) ECONOMY the global economy is hurling towards collapse- asian 
economies are creating excess savings that must be saved in the united 
states, causing record low interest rates creating a consumer bubble that 
will inevitably burst. this makes the collapse of the dollar and the global 
economy inevitable.  SMALLWOOD 8/30
The global economy could face disaster if the West shrinks from 
protectionism Published: 30 August 2005. Christopher Smallwood is a director 
of Lombard Street Associates. 
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/comment/article309031.ece

THE US ECONOMY IS IN THE STAGE OF A ?VIRTUAL RECOVERY? ? THE MASSIVE TRADE 
DEFICIT WILL BURST THE HOUSING BUBBLE IN 2005 causing a collapse of the 
global economy Engdahl 04 Is a USA Economic Collapse Due in 2005? by F. 
William Engdahl www.globalresearch.ca     28 July 2004 The URL of this 
article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ENG407A.html "The whole world 
is hostage to the misconceived economic policies of a dollar standard out of 
control."

even if the u.s. trade deficit is benefical for the global economy current 
levels are unsustainable and guarantee global economic collapse Elliott 03 
Larry Elliott  Observer July 20, 2003 
http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/crisis/2003/0720fallout.htm
collapse of the global economy will spark wars throughout the globe and 
massacre of indigenous people Lopez, 1998 (bernardo v. business world 
september 10, 1998)

Advantage 2) Leadership - a decline in u.s. leadership would lead to global 
nuclear war Khalilzad 95
china will dump cheap still into the u.s. market, the weak value of the yuan 
will devastate u.s. producers Armstrong 2k4 U.S. steel industry on the 
rebound Exports help feed China's growing demand David Armstrong, Chronicle 
Staff Writer Tuesday, May 4, 2004
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/04/BUGPL6F3VU1.DTL&type=business

THIS MASSIVE PRICE DECREASE IS CRUSHING THE US DOMESTIC STEEL INDUSTRY 
Canada Press 2k5 
http://www3.cjad.com/content/cp_article.asp?id=/global_feeds/CanadianPress/BusinessNews/b081965A.htm

july?s revaluation failed to help u.s. steelmakers they face pressure from 
chinese imports Wallstreet Journal Online 7/22 Companies See Little Impact 
>From Costlier Yuan -- For Now. A WALL STREET JOURNAL NEWS ROUNDUP July 22, 
2005. 
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112198586411092697-kSMx8Id8tpSpMUyd1lpg11Iv_bo_20060817,00.html?mod=rss_free

us domestic STEEL INDUSTRY IS THE BACKBONE OF U.S. sea power Waller 2k1 J. 
Michael Waller Insight on the News,Sept 17, 2001

MARITIME POWER IS THE CORNERSTONE OF HEGEMONY PRUITT 2K John  The Influence 
of Sea Power in the 21st Century August
http://web.mit.edu/ssp/Publications/working_papers/wp_00-4.pdf

China?s low exchange rate hurts the US manufacturing, national security, and 
economy
Financial Times 2004  (?The Hero Turns Villain,? 10/01/05)

US MANUFACTURING SECTOR IS KEY TO TECHNOLOGICAL COMPETITIVENESS AND IS THE 
HEART OF THE US ECONOMY JASINOWSKI 2K3 MAY 1, ?MANUFACTURING IS IN CRISIS? 
president of the National Association of Manufacturers, 
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3720/is_5_84/ai_101575991

TECHNOLOGICAL COMPETITIVENESS IS KEY TO SUSTAINED US HEGEMONY Khalilzad 95


KANSAS jw 1AC - nate johnson & Jon wright
ADVANTAGE ONE ? CROSS-STRAIT WAR
subpoint a ? THE GATHERING STORM
china will attack taiwan by the end of this year ? military statements prove

Allen ?05
Kenneth W., Senior Analyst at the Center for Naval Analyses,  ?China?s 
Perspective on Non-Strategic Nuclear Weapons and Arms Control,? Chapter 10 
in  Controlling Non-Strategic Nuclear Weapons: Obstacles and Opportunities. 
Edited by Jeffrey A. Larsen and Kurt J. Klingenberger 
http://www.usafa.af.mil/df/inss/books/lk/
China has deployed hundreds of ballistic missiles aimed at Taiwan ? these 
deployments are changing the leadership?s calculations to attack taiwan, 
collapsing us-china relations.

Swaine & Runyon ?01
Michael Swaine is Senior Political Scientist in International Studies at 
RAND in Santa Monica (California) and Research Director of the RAND Center 
for Asia-Pacific Policy. Loren Runyon is Senior Intern at The National 
Bureau of Asian
Research,  ?BALLISTIC MISSILE DEVELOPMENT.?  
http://strategicasia.nbr.org/Report/pdf/ShowReportPDF.aspx?ID=8&f=1

The situation is only getting worse ? by the end of the year there will be 
1000 missiles pointed at Taiwan

Taipei Times, April 24, 2005
?China to deploy cruise missiles: NSB.? Rich Chang, STAFF REPORTER.

Counterforce targeting isn?t an option ? China?s missiles are too mobile to 
take out preemptively, and Taiwanese intelligence is insufficient to find 
them all

Saunders & Saalman, October 2002
Phillip C., Director of EANP, and Lora L., Research Assistant. ?Taiwan?s 
Response to China?s Missile Buildup.?  Center for Nonproliferation Studies.  
http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_17b.html#fn8

No missile defense system is enough ? even top of the line systems cannot 
overcome a missile attack on such a large scale

O?Hanlon, July 2000
Michael, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and adjunct professor at 
Columbia University, ?CAN CHINA CONQUER TAIWAN??  International Security 
(vol. 25, no. 2).  
http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/ohanlon/2000fall_IS.pdf

SUBPOINT B ? THE INVASION ? CHINA?S MISSILES WILL ALLOW A SUCCESSFUL 
INVASION OF TAIWAN ? WE WILL ISOLATE THREE SCENARIOS
SCENARIO 1 ? AIR SUPERIORITY
First, taiwan?s air superiority is the lynchpin of defense ? with it, it can 
prevent and deter china from invading the strait

Asia Times, August 9, 1999
?A strategy of bluff.? STRATFOR's Global Intelligence Update Weekly 
Analysis. http://www.atimes.com/china/AH10Ad01.html


Next, China?s ballistic missiles threaten Taiwan?s air force ? they can use 
preemptive missile strikes to destroy the fleet while they?re on the ground.

Kagan 2000
?How China Will Take Taiwan.? By Robert Kagan, senior associate @ the 
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.  Washington Post, March 12, 2000 
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=232

And, a massive missile strike can be used to take out Taiwan?s command and 
control centers and air defenses ? destroying the TAF?s operations tempo and 
ability to conduct counterstrikes.

Stokes 2000
Major Mark A., Country Director for the PRC and Taiwan within the Office of 
the Secretary of Defense, International Security Affairs. ?SPACE, THEATER 
MISSILES, AND ELECTRONIC WARFARE: EMERGING FORCE MULTIPLERS FOR THE PLA 
AEROSPACE CAMPAIGN.? CHINESE MILITARY AFFAIRS: A CONFERENCE ON THE STATE OF 
THE FIELD. 26-27 OCTOBER, FORT MCNAIR, WASHINGTON DC, AEROSPACE I PANEL.  
http://www.ndu.edu/inss/China_Center/CMA_Conf_Oct00/paper16.htm

China?s acquisition of new guidance systems and satellite technology mean 
their missiles are highly accurate.

Stokes 2000
Major Mark A., Country Director for the PRC and Taiwan within the Office of 
the Secretary of Defense, International Security Affairs. ?SPACE, THEATER 
MISSILES, AND ELECTRONIC WARFARE: EMERGING FORCE MULTIPLERS FOR THE PLA 
AEROSPACE CAMPAIGN.? CHINESE MILITARY AFFAIRS: A CONFERENCE ON THE STATE OF 
THE FIELD. 26-27 OCTOBER, FORT MCNAIR, WASHINGTON DC, AEROSPACE I PANEL.  
http://www.ndu.edu/inss/China_Center/CMA_Conf_Oct00/paper16.htm

SCENARIO 2 ? RAPID CAPITULATION
China?s missile deployments are a form of psychological warfare ? a massive 
missile attack will frighten the public and destroy the Taiwanese 
leadership?s political will to continue the war.

Ding 2001
Arthur S. Ding, Ph. D. Research Fellow and Director, Research Division III, 
Institute of International Relations, National Chengchi University. ?Taiwan: 
>From Integrated Missile Defense to RMA?? 
http://jciss.llnl.gov/IT_RMA/Ding_Final.pdf

even if a missile attack doesn?t allow for an invasion, it will crush 
taiwan?s economy and force them into negotiations

Washington Post, April 12, 2005
?China's Military Goal Is to Stop U.S. Defense of Taiwan.? Edward Cody, 
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/4/12/103306.shtml

SCENARIO 3 ? LIGHTNING STRIKES
A large ballistic missile attack is part of China?s new doctrine of 
preemption ? with it, they can win the war before the US ever arrives

Kagan 2000
?How China Will Take Taiwan.? By Robert Kagan, senior associate @ the 
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.  Washington Post, March 12, 2000 
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=232

This failure to help Taiwan will damage credibility of the US deterrent 
throughout Asia, causing rapid nuclearization by allies.

O?Hanlon, April 6, 2005
Michael, chair of the Brookings Institution, ?Conflict Scenarios over Taiwan 
? How to Avoid, or Contain, War.? A Paper Prepared for the Conference: 
"Preventing and Resolving Conflict Across the Taiwan Strait" Co-Sponsored by 
The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and The China Reform Forum 
Held in Beijing.
That causes nuclear war

Cirincione ?00
Joseph, director of the Non-Proliferation Project at the Carnegie Endowment 
for International Peace. ?The Asian Nuclear Reaction Chain.?  Foreign Policy 
no118 120-36 Spring 2000.

Even if the US intervenes, global nuclear war results

The Straits Times (Singapore) June 25, 2000
?No one gains in war over Taiwan.? Ching Cheong.

SUBPOINT C ? BIG IMPACTS
even if war doesn?t escalate, it will trigger global economic collapse

Kern, March 16, 2005
Soeren, Senior Analyst, United States and Transatlantic Dialogue, Elcano 
Royal Institute?Are China and the US Drifting Towards War over Taiwan?? 
http://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/analisis/707/KernChina-EEUU.pdf

global economic collapse causes nuclear war

Mead 1992
Walter Russell, New Perspectives Quarterly, Summer, p. 30.

after reunification, china will expand into the spratlys and the rest of 
asia

Asia Times, November 6, 2002
?The Spratlys pact: Beijing's olive branch.?  By Francesco Sisci. 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/china/DK06Ad01.html

and, china will use its missiles deployed against taiwan to wage war over 
the spratlys

Guthe & Payne, no date given
Kurt Guthe, Director of Strategic Studies at the National Institute for 
Public Policy & former senior analyst at the Center for Strategic and 
Budgetary Assessments, and Keith Payne, Deputy Assistant Secretary of 
Defense for Forces and Policy (until June 2003) and former National 
Institute for Public Policy Director. "The Unique Value of Ballistic 
Missiles for Deterrence and Coercion: The Chinese Case? 
http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/missile/rumsfeld/pt3_guthe.htm

spratlys war draws in the us and goes nuclear

The Nikkei Weekly (Japan), July 3, 1995
?Developing Asian nations should be allowed a grace period to allow their 
economies to grow before being subjected to trade liberalization demands, 
says Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad.?

ADVANTAGE TWO ? PROLIFERATION
SUBPOINT A ? taiwan
china?s missile deployments will cause taiwan to nuclearize to counter them

Washington Times, Dec. 8, 1999
?China Targets Taiwan with 2nd Missile Base.?  By Bill Gertz.  
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:46J9DN74_xgJ:taiwansecurity.org/News/WT-991208-2nd-Missile-Base.htm+taiwan+%22biological%22+chinese+threat&hl=en

taiwanese nuclearization won?t deter china, but does ensure immediate 
nuclear war

Mack ?96
Andrew Mack is Professor of International Relations at the Australian 
National University. ?Proliferation in
Northeast Asia,? Occasional Paper No. 28 July 1996, published by the Henry 
L. Stimson Center in Washington, DC. http://www.stimson.org/wmd/pdf/mack.pdf

SUBPOINT B ? AGGRESSIVE POSTURE
China?s ballistic missile deployments will cause them to adopt a more 
aggressive force posture, threatening Taiwan, Japan, and US troops 
throughout Asia

Swaine & Runyon 2002
?Ballistic Missiles and Missile Defense in Asia.?  Dr. Michael D. Swaine, 
senior associate and codirector of the China Program at the Carnegie 
Endowment for International Peace, with assistance from Loren H. Runyon, 
senior intern at the National Bureau of Asian Research. 
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/swainenbr.pdf

fear of chinese aggression will cause japan to acquire nuclear weapons

Financial Times (London,England) December 3, 2002
?As the world's most populous nation emerges as the next Asian superpower, 
John Thornhill examines the possible repercussions for the security and the 
economy of the region.? By JOHN THORNHILL.

That causes nuclear war

Business Week, January 20, 2003
?WHY JAPAN JUST MIGHT BUILD NUKES.? By Irene M. Kunii in Tokyo.

China?s missiles will be used to coerce US military assets, destroying our 
ability to forward deploy and ending US leadership in Asia

Swaine & Runyon 2002
?Ballistic Missiles and Missile Defense in Asia.?  Dr. Michael D. Swaine, 
senior associate and codirector of the China Program at the Carnegie 
Endowment for International Peace, with assistance from Loren H. Runyon, 
senior intern at the National Bureau of Asian Research. 
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/swainenbr.pdf

us leadership in asia is crucial to stop multiple scenarios for nuclear war

Khalilzad ?95
Zalmay, total baller and debate legend, ?Losing the Moment? The United 
States and the World After the Cold War.? The Washington Quarterly, 1995 
Spring, Vol. 18, No. 2; Pg. 84.
Therefore, we offer the following plan:  the executive branch of the united 
states federal government should threaten to, and subsequently impose trade 
sanctions on the people?s republic of china unless the people?s republicof 
china begins the full removal and dismantlement of its missiles and 
missile-related assets deployed for use against the island of taiwan.  we 
can clarify.
OBSERVATION ONE ? SOLVENCY
First, China?s 2002 offer of a missile freeze proves that their missile 
assets are on the negotiating table

Kan, March 21, 2005
Shirley A. Kan, Specialist in National Security Policy - Foreign Affairs, 
Defense, and Trade Division.  ?Taiwan: Major U.S. Arms Sales Since 1990.?  
Congressional Research Service.  
http://www.ndu.edu/library/docs/crs/crs_rl30957_21mar05.pdfus pressure is 
key getting china to reduce its missiles ? we must change the perception 
that we can be pushed around if we want compliance

FLANNERY, April 17, 2000
RUSSELL Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ?Taiwan's New Foreign 
Minister Urges U.S. to Press China to Slow Missiles.? 
http://www.taiwandc.org/wsj-2000-09.htm

ECONOMIC PRESSURE IS KEY TO SOLVE TAIWAN AND MISSILE ISSUES ? THE THREAT OF 
SANCTIONS WILL SOLVE
BUNNING, 2K
Senator Jim, ?PERMANENT TRADE WITH CHINA,? September, 
http://bunning.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Speeches.Detail&Speech_id=27&Month=9&Year=2000economic 
pressure is key to stop chinese missile deployments against taiwan

Lighthizer, 18 April 1999
Robert E., a trade lawyer whose clients include several domestic 
steelmakers, was a deputy trade representative in the Reagan Administration. 
  ?A Deal We'd Be Likely To Regret.? The New York Times.

chinese removal of its srbm?s would ensure taiwan?s security and would be 
verifiable

Johnston, no date given
Alastair Iain Johnston, professor of government @ Harvard University 
?Solving the China-Taiwan Standoff: A Modest Proposal.? 
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~johnston/Taiwan_proposal.pdf

now is the key time ? china is having an internal debate over whether to 
remove its missiles

Taiwan News, May 31, 2005
?PRC May Pull Back Missiles Facing Taiwan, Paper Reveals.?
http://taiwansecurity.org/TN/2005/TN-310505.htm

us pressure is key to solve miscalculation by china

Kagan & Kristol, 12/22/2003
?Stand by Taiwan.? by Robert Kagan and William Kristol, Volume 009, Issue 15
http://www.fapa.org/WEN-VISIT-2003/WEEKLYSTANDARD.htm

Affirmative Team: Kansas CJ
Negative Team: Wichita State CS

Hegemony Good ? U.S. airline industry
Economy good ? U.S. China Cargo capacity
Trade Good ? U.S. trade Credibility

Plan Text:
USFG should threaten to restrict aviation access to the US from the PRC 
unless the PRC accepts an open skies agreement.
Affirmative Team: Kansas State
Negative Team:

[C
Chinese Democracy

Cyber-Warfare


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Plane: The United States Federal Government should through the Executive 
branch issue a series of public statements asking the People?s Republic of 
China to end its restrictions on internet content and also ban the sale of 
filtering software and hardware equipped with such filtering capabilities 
from the United States companies.  Funding and Enforcement through normal 
means, we?ll clarify intent.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

US diplomatic pressure is necessary to get China to open up its internet 
reporting ? the United States must take a coordinated diplomatic stance in 
order to be effective
Maochun Yu, Professor Naval Academy, June 5, 2003
?SARS IN CHINA: IMPLICATIONS FOR INFORMATION CONTROL, INTERNET CENSORSHIP, 
AND THE ECONOMY? Hearing before the US-China Economic and Security Review 
Commission US Government Printing Office

Lack of export restrictions on US filtering software caused implementation 
of Chinese restriction on the internet by US companies ? they wont stop 
merely with diplomatic pressure alone
Lokman Tsui, University of Leiden Political Science, 2001
http://www.lokman,nu/thesis/010717-thesis.pdf july ?Internet in China: Big 
Mama is Watching You/Internet Control and the Chinese Government? MA Thesis




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]
Advantage 1: Chinese Democracy
The Chinese economy is going to collapse inevitably without democracy
Bruce Gilley, contributing editor of Far Eastern Economic Review and lived 
in China and Hong Kong for more than a decade, and now a doctoral student in 
political science at Princeton University.  China?s Democratic Future: How 
It Will Happen and Where It Will Lead. 2004 p.40

Economic collapse in China leads to regime change that could reemerge in a 
new authoritarianism
Larry Diamond is a sernior research fellow at the Hoover Institution. The 
Global Prospect. HOOVER DIGEST, 1999 No. 4. 
http://www.hooverdigest.org/994/diamond.html

Promoting a policy of a politically open internet by restricting US 
companies sales and diplomatic efforts will cause grassroots democratic 
reform in China ? this is critical to prevent a threat filled China emerging 
and to ushering in Democracy
John J Tkacik, Jr Heritage Foundation, 2004 ?Chinas Orwellian Internet 
Backgrounder #1806 October 8, 2004 
http://www.heritage.org/Research/AsiaandthePacific/bg1806.cfm#_ftn3

Communications like the Internet will be critical in order to successfully 
extricate the CCP from power
Bruce Gilley, contributing editor of Far Eastern Economic Review and lived 
in China and Hong Kong for more than a decade, and now a doctoral student in 
political science at Princeton University.  China?s Democratic Future: How 
It Will Happen and Where It Will Lead. 2004 p.40

Extrication will create more stability than a collapse or overthrow
Bruce Gilley, contributing editor of Far Eastern Economic Review and lived 
in China and Hong Kong for more than a decade, and now a doctoral student in 
political science at Princeton University.  China?s Democratic Future: How 
It Will Happen and Where It Will Lead. 2004 p.40

The Chinese economy is key to the world economy
Nick Beans, China ?Overheating? spells trouble for world economy, 5 May 2004 
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/may2004/chin-m05_prn.shtml

Economic collapse causes global nuclear war ending in extinction
Bearden, 2000 (Lieutenant Colonel in the U.S. Army, 2000, The Unnecessary 
Energy Crisis: How We Can Solve It, 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big-Medicine/message/642)

Democratic China will create good Chinese Japanese relations and prevent 
Japan from rearming
Bruce Gilley, contributing editor of Far Eastern Economic Review and lived 
in China and Hong Kong for more than a decade, and now a doctoral student in 
political science at Princeton University.  China?s Democratic Future: How 
It Will Happen and Where It Will Lead. 2004 p.40

Japanese rearm causes extinction
Joseph Cirincione (Director of the Non-Proliferation Project at the Carnegie 
Endowment for International Pace in Washington, D.C.) Marth 4, 2000
?Nuclear Chain Reaction?, Nando Times, Online, 
http://www.commondreams.org/views/030400-104.htm
Advantage 2: Cyber Warfare
China sees the US as an enemy ? a cyber attack against US businesses is 
inevitable in the status quo ? US is vulnerable ? we need strong software to 
stop harmful effects of attack and studies underestimate China?s capability
Frederick W. Stakelbeck Front Page Resources 2005 
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18870 ?The 
Approaching Chinese Cyber Storm?, July 29th

US companies lead the way in providing the Chinese Government the ability to 
filter the internet ? this causes piracy of US software
Ken Berman, International Broadcasting Bureau June 5, 2003
?SARS IN CHINA: IMPLICATIONS FOR INFORMATION CONTROL, INTERNET CENSORSHIP, 
AND THE ECONOMY? Hearing before the US-China Economic and Security Review 
Commission US

This piracy also makes US businesses vulnerable ? it?s the same software 
used in our business
Commissioner Dreyer US China Economic and Security Review Commission June 5, 
2003, Hearing before the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission US 
Government Printing Office

Offensive cyber technology allows Taiwan invasion preventing US intervention 
LA Times 2002
http://www.latimes.com/la-04502china.story ?CIA Warns of Chinese Plans for 
Cyber-Attacks on U.S.?

Taiwan is a tight-rope for the US and China; any miss-step could result in a 
nuclear holocaust
Johnson, Pres of the Japan Policy Research Institute and Prof @ UC-SD, 2001 
(Chalmers, ?Time to Bring the Troops Home,? Nation 272(19), May 14, pp. 
20-22)

China is planning a pre-emptive cyber warfare attack against US computers ? 
this would destroy our economy and political systems
Charles R. Smith, Worldwide Writer, 2003 Tuesday Aug 19 2003 
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/19/121728.shtml





Affirmative Team: Macalester
Negative Team:

[C



Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

THE UNITED STATES FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD INCREASE DIPLOMATIC AND ECONOMIC 
PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE?S REPUBLIC OF CHINA BY: (1) UNILATERALLY DECLARING 
THAT IT WILL NOT BE THE FIRST OF THE TWO STATES TO FLIGHT TEST OR DEPLOY 
SPACE WEAPONS; (2) DECLARING ITS SUPPORT FOR A TREATY PROHIBITING THE 
DEPLOYMENT OR TESTING OF SPACE WEAPONS THAT IS ENFORCEABLE VIA SANCTIONS; 
AND (3) MAKING CHINESE ACCESS TO U.S. SATELLITE DATA AND TECHNOLOGY 
CONTINGENT ON THE NON-TESTING AND DEPLOYMENT OF SPACE WEAPONS. FUNDING AND 
ENFORCEMENT ARE GUARANTEED.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

OBSERVATION ONE: SOLVENCYH
A: U.S. WEAPONIZATION DRIVE FORCING CHINA INTO A SPACE ARMS RACE, RISKING 
NUCLEAR ESCALATION?BETTER TO MOVE TOWARDS MUTUAL ARMS CONTROL
James Carroll, The Boston Globe, 10/28/03

B: UNILATERAL US COMMITMENT AGAINST DEVELOPMENT AND DEPLOYMENT OF SPACE 
WEAPONS PARALLEL WITH A TREATY CREATES AGGRESSIVE GLOBAL REGIME AGAINST 
THEIR CREATION, PROTECTING COMMERICAL AND SCIENTIFIC SPACE USE
Bruce Deblois et al., International Security, Fall 2004

C: THE U.S. SHOULD USE ACCESS TO SATELLITE DATA AND SATELLITE TECHNOLOGY TO 
LEVERAGE CHINESE SPACE COOPERATION AND NON-TESTING OF ASATs
Jeffrey Lewis, AD ASTRA, Spring 2005

D: U.S. RESTRAINT CHECKS WEAPONIZATION?ITS LEADERHIP IS KEY
Michael Krepon, Space Assurance or Space Dominance, 2003, p. 88-89.

E: U.S./CHINA DISAGREEMENTS BLOCK ARMS CONTROL NOW?OTHER STATES WON MOVE 
UNLESS THE U.S. DOES
James Clay Moltz, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, J/F 2003.




Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

ADVANTAGE ONE: LEADERSHIP
A: WEAPONIZATION ERODES LEADERSHIP FOR TWO REASONS: SYMMETRIC AND ASSYMETRIC 
BALANCING
Theresa Hitchens, Arms Control Today, September 2001.

B: WEAPONIZATION UNDERMINES COMMERCIAL SPACE, WHICH:
1. UNDERMINES ECONOMY
2. ERODES MILITARY AND ECONOMIC POWER
Theresa Hitchens, ?Weapons in Space: Silver Bullet or Russian Roulette?? CDI 
4/18/02 www.cdi.org/missile-defense/spaceweapons.cfm

C: DOMINANCE STRATEGY UNDERMINES LEADERSHIP: 1. RESOURCE TRADEOFF; 2. 
UNDERMINES PEACEKEEPING; 3. PREVENTS SOLVING ROOT CAUSES OF WAR; 4. 
ALIENATES ALLIES/RISKING PROLIF
Nader Elhefnawy, PARAMETERS, Spring 2003, pp. 124-132.


D: WEAPONIZATION ERODES HEGEMONY: [6 reasons]
Karl P. Mueller, 5/8/02 ?Totem and Taboo? online

E: SPACE WEAPONIZATION KILLS MILITARY MODERNIZATIONS ACROSS THE BOARD 
BECAUSE OF FUNDING TRADEOFFS
David W. Zeigler, Beyond the Paths of Heaven, September 1999, ed. B. 
Deblois, online

F: ECONOMIC STRENGTH IS THE CORNERSTONE OF AMERICAN LEADERSHIP
Zbigniew Brzezinski, The Grand Chessboard, 1997

G: WEAPONIZATION HURTS LEADERSHIP: FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY
Elhefnawy, above

H: GROUND VULNERABILITIES AND COUNTERMEASURES NULLIFY ANY U.S. SPACE 
ADVANTAGE
Elhefnawy, above

I: TERRESTRIAL WEAPONS ARE BETTER IN EVERY RESPECT
Deblois, IEEE Spectrum, March 2005, ?Star Crossed? online

J: FINALLY, COLLAPSE OF U.S. LEADERSHIP SPARKS GLOBAL POWER WARS THROUGHOUT 
EUROPE, ASIA AND THE MIDDLE EAST, ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, AND NUCLEAR PROLIF AND 
WAR
Khalilzad, WQ Spring 1995

ADVANTAGE TWO: WAR
A: SPACE WEAPONIZATION WILL SPUR AN ARMS RACE THAT FOSTERS HAIR-TRIGGER 
STATUS, FIRST STRIKES AND ACCIDENTAL WARS THAT UNDERMINES GLOBAL COMMERCE, 
UNDERMINE U.S. HEGEMONY, POISONS GREAT POWER RELATIONS, AND RISKS NUCLEAR 
ESCALATION
Michael Krepon & Michale Heller, Disarmament Diplomacy, May/June 2004, 
online

B:  STATUS QUO SPACE POLICY MUCH MORE STABLE ? MOVE TO MILITARIZE RISKS 
SPACE-M.A.D. AND TOTAL ANNIHILATION ? ENSURES FIRST STRIKE THROUGH 
DETERRENCE FAILURES FOR THREE REASONS [3 REASONS]:
Bruce M. Deblois, AIRPOWER JOURNAL, 1998, pp. 41-57.

C:  THE IMPACT OF THESE WARS IS OMNICIDE
Arbatov & Mayorski, Space Weapons and International Security, 1987.

ADVANTAGE THREE: GLOBAL DOOM
A: STRATEGIC INSTABILITY
1.
SPACE WEAPONIZATION BAD: (1) RUSSIAN HAIR TRIGGER; (2) CHINA/INDIA/PAKSITAN 
NUCLEAR INSTABILITY; (3) ALIENATES ALLIES; (4) UNDERMINES GLOBAL 
NONPROLIFERATION
Michael Krepon, Arms Control Today, November 2004.

2. PROLIF SPARKS MASSIVE NUCLEAR WARS
Victor Utgoff, Survival, Summer 2002, p. 90

3. SOUTH ASIAN NUCLEAR WAR RISKs EXTINCTION
Helen Caldicott, The New Nuclear Danger, 2002, p. xii.

B. NUKES IN SPACE
1. SPACE MILITARIZATION CALLS FOR NUCLEAR POWER
Karl Grossman, ?Keep Space for Peace,? 2000, online.

2. NUCLEAR POWER IN SPACE RISKS PLANETARY EXTINCTION
Bruce K. Gagnon, 1999, online ?The Pentagon, through the U.S. Space command? 
begin now?

C: OZONE
1. LAUNCHES FOR WEAPONIZATION GUTS THE OZONE LAYER
Caldicott, above

2. OZONE LOSS RISKS LOSS OF ALL LIFE
Peter Bunyard, The Breakdown of Climate 1999, p. 94.

D: SOCIAL JUSTICE
1. ENDING SPACE MIL FREES UP ENOUGH MONEY TO END WORLD HUNGER, GENDER 
MODIFIED
Robert Bowman, Star Wars?A Defense Insider?s Case Against SDI, 1986

2. NEW MILITARY SPENDING TRADES OFF WITH SOCIAL PROGRAMS AND CAUSES NEW ARMS 
RACES, RISKING NUCLEAR ESCALATION
J.J. Joseph, Search for Sanity, 1984

E: PLAN LEADS TO A CONSCIOUSNESS THAT ENDS MOST WARS
I.C.I.S., ?Transforming the War Industry Into a World Cooperative Space 
Industry,? January 2003, online


ffirmative Team: Miami
Negative Team: Kansas

[C
China-Taiwan War/US-Sino Relations


Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Plan: the United States Federal Government should substantially increase 
diplomatic and economic pressure on the People?s Republic of China through 
direct conditional positive support and financing to achieve an agreed 
framework of declaratory statements and of other confidence-building 
measures with Taiwan.

Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

The United States has a window of opportunity to take a crucial, more 
pro-active role in bringing a cross-straight framework that locks-in the 
peace and stability of the status quo. Liberthal explains in 2005. No quals? 
?thus the December 2004 developments?could present major obstacles?

The US can effectively pressure china to initiate a framework that will 
establish a small step toward mutual confidence. Liberthal 2005. ?A SECOND 
and politically more?to help international support?

Conditional aid can generate economic pressure for china to reach these 
agreements with Taiwan. M. Shane Smith, research Assistant at the University 
of Colorado?s Conflict Resolution Consortium, 2004. 
www.beyondintractability.org/m/incentives.jsp ?another type of 
incentive...occupied territories?

The US will be accepted as a mediator of the dialogue. Dr. Monte Bullard, 
Senior Fellow at the Center for Nonproliferation Studies explained in 
December 2004. ?contrary to prior stated policies by all?measures by all 
three sides?

Declaratory statements would likely lead to further confidence-building 
measures. Bonnie Glaser, Senior Associate CSIS, 2003. BREAKING THE 
CHINA-TAIWAN IMPASSE pg. 157 ?while negotiations of thorny political?and 
advanced measures?

CBM?s will reduce misperceptions in both the political and military spheres. 
Brad Glosserman, director of Research for the Pacific Forum, CSIS Feb 2005. 
www.csis.org/pacfor/issues/v05n02_authors.cfm ?CBMs/CSBMs are defined as 
both formal and informal?the security concerns of both sides.?

These agreements can transform cross-straights relations from confrontation 
to cooperation. Chyungly Lee, Associate Research Fellow at the Institute of 
International Relations. MARITIME CONFIDENCE BUILDING MEASURES ACROSS THE 
TAIWAN STRAIGHT, SANDIA, SAND March 2003. 
www.cmc.sandia.gov/papers-sand-documents.htm ?the goal of this study was to 
develop?.cooperation-dominated mindset.?





Advantages/Harms/Scenarios: [Please include tags + full citations]

The first implication is an allout war between the US and China. If China 
attacks Taiwan escalation to the nuclear level remains a real possibility. 
Michael Swaine, Senior Associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International 
Peace wrote in April of 2005: 
www.carnegieedowment.org/events/index.cfm?fa=eventDetail&id=771&&prog=zch 
?it is by no means?or by design?

This scenario would present many risks, including escalation to the nuclear 
level. The Straight Times, June 25, 2000. ?the high intensity 
scenario?sovereignty above everything else?

Even if the US did not come to Taiwan?s defense, the cooperative 
relationship between china and the US would be destroyed. Ashley Tellis, 
Senior Associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, April 
2005. 
www.carnegieedowment.org/events/index.cfm?fa=eventDetail&id=771&&prog=zch 
?at the political level?future world order?

Cooperative Sino-US relations are crucial to peace and prosperity in Asia. 
Michael Swine, Foreign Affairs, March/April 2004 ?moreover, the 
maintenance?war on terrorism?

A war between India and Pakistan could threaten our existence on the planet. 
The Washington times 2001. ?the most dangerous place on the planet?the 
entire globe?

A war on the Korean peninsula would present equally severe risks. Africa 
News 1999 ?if there is one place today?technically still at war?

A cross-straight conflict would undermine Asian trade and prosperity. 
Business week august 22nd 2005. ?china?s biggest flashpoint?would spill into 
trade?

Global prosperity would be jeopardized given the vital role of Asian trading 
routes. Yun Han Chu, Senior Fellow of the Institute of Political Science at 
the National Taiwan university August 2004. Asian Survey p492 ?an outbreak 
of military?financial markets?

Billions of lives depend on prosperous Sino-us ties. Denny Roy, Assistant 
professor National Security Affairs, Naval Postgraduate School, 2000. 
Survival Magazine, Spring pg.76 ?a working relationship?related political 
environment?

Global economic collapse would lead to multiple escalation scenarios. 
Bearden Retired US Army, Director Association of Distinguished American 
Scientists, 2000. www.seaspower.com/energycrisis-bearden.htm ?history bears 
out that desperate?at least for many decades?


Key 2AC Arguments/Positions: [Please include tags + full citations]

Affirmative Team: Michigan
Negative Team:

[C

Chinese Laogain/Forced Labor Aff
Global Economy (U.S. Manufacturing Sector)
U.S. Leadership (Human Rights Credibility)
Plan Text:                                                                   
                                                                             
             Advantages: [Titles/Descriptions ? Tags/Citations next page?]

Hence the plan?

The United States Federal Government will abrogate the Memorandum of 
Understanding on Forced Labor with China and will enact a ban on all 
categories of products that have been known to be produced with forced 
labor.  Enforcement through normal means.


Solvency: [Please include all citations, page numbers, tag]

First, The RETL lacks popular support?the US can uniquely influence this 
human rights practice in China
Posner, Exec Dir ? Human Rights First, 1999
(Michael, Testimony before the House Committee on International Relations, 
Jan 20,
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/archives/arc_refs/feature/china/chinatest012099.htm)
Second, Economic pressure is key to ending forced labor in China
Smith, Chair Subcommittee on Int?l Ops & Human Rights, 1997
(Chrostopher H., ?Forced Labor in China-Hearing Before the Subcommittee on 
Int?l Ops & Human Rights?, May 
22,http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa45502.000/hfa45502_0.HTM)

And, a ban on categories of goods produced with forced labor is substantial 
pressure on the Chinese government to end forced labor?this solves loopholes 
in the MOU and SOC and gives the US leverage to