[eDebate] And the Elephant In the Corner Is...

doug dennis blackdebateguy
Tue Apr 18 11:29:53 CDT 2006


i'm going to come at this from a little different angle...

dallas asks the question "is it worth it to save $40-90 a team a tornament 
if we chose to not stay in the phatty hotels this activity chooses. my 
answer. yes.

i happen to "work" (because work implies pay) for the university of 
california at santa cruz. and anyone that goes/went to school in california 
in general, and in the uc system in particular, knows that getting money 
from the UC is like trying to squeeze blood from a stone (and arnett will 
tell you the same). the uc system is tettering on bankrupcy, and convincing 
them why they should give us any money (we ARE a fringe, special interest 
group) is already an uphill battle. but when i come at them with a typical 
invite, and they do the math, they ask questions like "how can we justify 
sending these 2/4/6 kids to X location? it's gonna cost $2500- thats the 
operating budget of 20 clubs on campus for the year!

lowering hotel prices won't make my admin like debate more, but it does make 
my argument easier, and if we inevitibly lose the argument, it allows us 
more of an ability to "do it ourselves". an actual question i had to answer 
was "you all stay at westins? i've NEVER stayed at a westin."- and neither 
had i, until i started doing debate. the $40-90 a tournament you all save 
(read: you'd let us, denver, weber, tennessee tech, and any other program 
that has to make tradeoffs now) in our projected season would save our 
program $2000, which is coming out of our "fundraising" budget (which is as 
of right now, our pockets). thats enough money for us to go to  2 or 3 more 
tournaments.  it's also enough cash to do things like get an extra vehilce 
and buy gas if you need it.

don't get it twisted, I LOVE staying in those phat hotels. the beds are 
amazing and the westin with it's double shower heads are to die for. but its 
a REAL tradeoff. and from what it seems, it's a real tradeoff for more 
people than i thought it was. most of you all are trying to justify the 
money you all get. we're trying to convince an admin that we're a worthwhile 
investment. and ANY place we can shave a buck or two off of the prices,, 
that would be great (you should also apply this to entry fees, banquets, 
trophies, hell, we'll take our chances on b smith's idea of winners get your 
entry fees back). or, if everyone decides that we should keep staying in 
uber-hotels with free NOTHING (really, it's 2006, should we have to pay for 
internet in a hotel? in the last week, i've gotten free internet in 1)my 
local bar, 2) a coffee shop, 3) a CARL'S JR.- but yet i need to pay the 
westin 40 bucks a weekend, come on!) and a stunning bill at the end), let us 
stay on your floors and  use your showers- even dirty hippies like to 
shower. :)

and for those of you all that are insulated from this discussion, you all 
can still stay downtown, or wherever you all want to stay.  nobody's 
stopping you. but in an activity that prides itself in inclusion (and is 
honestly on life support- if you'd told me 10 years ago that there could be 
a time where SIU, alabama and UMKC would all no longer offer policy debate, 
id have told you that policy debate had obviously DIED) and and activity 
that NEEDS new lifeblood, it seems we should do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make 
what we do of interest/need of protection by our admins.

thanks for listening

doug d
uc santa cruz


>From: Dallas Perkins <dperkins at fas.harvard.edu>
>To: "Dr. Joe Bellon" <debate.gsu at gmail.com>
>CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: Re: [eDebate] And the Elephant In the Corner Is...
>Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:12:02 -0400 (EDT)
>
>I'll weigh in with a few observations that suggest staying in the downtown
>hotels.
>
>I acknowledge that staying on the perimeter will save $40 to $90 per team
>per tournament, depending on how many people put in each hotel room.  Is
>it worth it?
>
>Maybe not.  First, the costs are progressively distributed.  Schools that
>can afford to put only 2 or 3 students in a room will pay more, while
>schools who choose to put 4 students in each room will only pay the
>minimum increase.  Those who can afford the extra costs pay most of them,
>and the schools who are strapped for cash will be able to economize and
>keep their extra costs low.
>
>Second, there are costs of staying on the perimeter.  Fifteen minutes of
>commute time is not trivial.  That is half an hour per day, per person, an
>hour of lost sleep or work over the course of two days.  For two debaters
>and one judge staying four-to-a-room, that's $13 per hour.  This assumes
>we still have elims in the hotel--the Monday morning commute would be much
>slower, parking much more difficult, etc.
>
>There are also money costs.  We have managed to minimize our car rental
>expenses by moving the ev from the airport in a minivan, putting debaters
>on MARTA, and making a couple of shuttle runs in the morning.  If we move
>to a perimeter hotel, we will certainly spend more on gas at $3 a gallon,
>and might well have to rent an additional vehicle.
>
>Overall, I think it's worth it to stay downtown.
>
>dp
>
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