[eDebate] Topic/Merger/Topic Committee

Josh Hoe jbhdb8
Sun Jun 11 11:55:04 CDT 2006


Shocking I would respond to this I know,

I have accused Jackie of contempt for his colleagues before but I suspect
that is too generous after this post.

JM: If rumors are correct, there was a meeting amongst Traditional NDT folks
to determine who had the best chance to beat our Current VP and 2nd VP in
the past election to have those other 2 sets on the topic committee.  If
this is true, it seems coercive to me.

JBH: First and most important, there is not a cabal of NDT people with
secret codes and underground Byzantine plans....This is conspiracy theory
101 here and having served in several different capacities in the CEDA
organization and having attended seemingly hundreds of CEDA and NDT meetings
over my coaching career (not just one) I find this insulting.  Its like you
think there are CEDA coaches and NDT coaches and the NDT coaches have secret
plans and meetings.  This is pretty close to literally insane.  Once again,
and like usual, your contempt for your contemporaries here is obvious.

JM: NDT said they would adopt the CEDA topic if it was a policy resolution
and went for a full year.  But somehow this has transferred into NDT folk
wanting to control the current topic committee and write the resolutions,
rather than just accept whatever policy resolution the CEDA Topic Committee
produces.  I agree some schools do both, but most debate coaches/schools
have their roots.  Some are proud of those roots, others are not.  Why is it
that 4 members of the topic committee did not even attend CEDA Nationals?

JBH:  This is total horse poop.  Both communities wanted to make sure there
was representation of TRADITIONALLY CEDA and TRADITIONALLY NDT coaches in
order to ensure a smooth and meaningful merger experience.  Both communities
went way out of their way to be WELCOMING and create space for each other
within the CEDA process.  Beyond that efforts were made to meaningfully
increase student representation etc.  I was on the committee through that
transition...were you even around?  If you are going to make insinuating and
insulting arguments you better be able to PROVE them.  If not just STOP IT.
This particular version of the topic committee you give backhanded
complements before openly insulting was a result of community voting and
nomination.  When did you stand for election "man of the people?"

Second, what is this "why did four coaches not attend CEDA nationals"
nonsense.  Agreeing to serve in the CEDA organization does not obligate one
to make the same programatic choices JM thinks you should and shame on him
for suggesting it.  And more important why do you need to go to CEDA
nationals in order to be qualified to write a topic for the merged
community?  That is what is called a non-sequiter.

Now you will trot out the "HOE didnt go to CEDA nationals - tar and feather
and pillory and refuse to listen to HOE who is terrible" line.  Like most
coaches, I have my own reasons for choosing one tournament over another in
any particular year.  Acting like you know what those reasons are in your
infinite wisdom is wrong.  Acting like its fair to paint anyone who
disagrees with you or who doesnt go in particular years to CEDA is wrong.  I
have, for instance, attended CEDA nationals many many more times as a coach
than I have NOT attended.  But you like just waving around innuendo and
acting as if its PROOF in a McCarthyesque populist way that is scary and
frankly dangerous.


JM: Why doesn't the CEDA organization withdraw hosting the topic committee
meeting and just let the NDT folk have a meeting and craft the
resolution?  Is that CEDA's goal now, pay for the meeting that allows the
Traditional NDT folk to craft a topic?  Who is being who's lackey?

JBH: You should be ashamed of youself.  Seriously read this again.  You are
insinuating that the current topic committee is part of a secret (or not so
secret) NDT cabal. That they are all involved in using CEDA in an attempt to
hijack its topic process.  This is a mockery of the means in which they were
nominated and ELECTED.  Something you have never, by your own admission, put
yourself up for.  The CEDA community ELECTED the topic committee.  The
registered members.  You cant really believe this and you should apologize
for saying such inane nonsense (specifically to the members).

JM: My alternative to the current process, CEDA host a topic committee
meeting after the NDT meeting, craft resolutions about the same area, but in
a way that might be more accessible for the majority of those in the
community, rather than most people having to appeal to a select few's
perspective of what good debate is

JBH: When did you become the avatar of what the majority wants again?  Was
there a vote you took in secret?  How about this, why dont you run for CEDA
president next year...People now know your slate...If you win ok, seperatism
it is....If you lose....well you know what you can do.  Plus there is no
CEDA community and NDT community we all belong for the most part to both
organzizations.  We all go to some traditionally CEDA and some traditionally
NDT tournaments.  We all pay dues to BOTH organizations.  We all have
different levels of roots.

It is confusing and scary how you keep making arguments as if you know what
is best for either community.  Most people just make arguments about what
they think and let the community sort it out.  You seem to believe you know
what is right absolutely and be willing to literally pillory anyone who
disagrees with you.  Not only pillory them but accuse them of being part of
a literal conspiracy.  More than that say if they dont follow your idea of
how a program SHOULD be run they arent even worthy of a listen (well they
are just NDT conspirators dont you know). And its your colleagues you speak
like this.

JM: In my mind the topic is the mask.  I have no preference of lists over
areas unless the lists topics get so limited that there are only 4 affs',
then the club that bludgeons schools with small coaching staffs will
re-appear.

JBH: Once again you just make stuff up and assume you know what the world
needs.....For instance, I have two coaches most years and like list
topics...You have two coaches and like area topics.  Assuming you know whats
right for everyone else is more than arrogant.  At least some of us who
think we know what is a good topic expose those views to the community and
ask them to decide...You try to hijack the process entirely.  Beyond that
you seem to think you speak for a majority.  You seem to feel you are some
kind of messiah for the silent majority.  So, on one side we have a bunch of
people who put themselves up for election, gave up at least a month of their
lives to get constantly insulted and pilloried by people like you.....On the
other hand we have you - unelected, insulting, and seemingly omniscient and
omnipotent.  Standing up for us all.

JM: On the first day I predicted the smallest lists would include the
discussion of abortion cases, they did.  I predicted we would get lucky to
get an AREAS topic on the ballot, we were.

JBH: Yes, you are just like Kreskin....Only not....Thank God we have you
around to keep us all safe.  Is next week Jackie walks on water week?  Or
will it be parting the seas?

Josh


PS. Please let none of this reflect my feelings about the great work Jack
has done with his program, his teams, or him generally as a person.  My
disagreements with Jackie are literally this deep.  Virtually all of our
arguments are on this subject.  I respect him as a coach and as a person.
However, I find much of the tone of his recent topic posts to be frankly
scary and dangerous.
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