[eDebate] WVU course reversal? SAY IT AIN'T SO!

Darren Elliott delliott
Wed Mar 8 16:48:36 CST 2006

Class in an hour and a 1/2, a Board meeting in 30 minutes, some tests to finish grading, and oh yeah gotta finish the research dividing for JV Nats at JCCC this weekend, but I couldnt let this go by without a couple quick things.
1.  We drove to Morgantown.  15 hours.  Some rain, some snow, and a gas leak that stunk up all of Columbus (from the city not from the van * well I assume).  We'd do it again.  We want to do it again.  If it moves farther East or North we will likely be locked out.  I know this is a personal pref thing but its also budgetary.  We can afford driving to Morgantown we couldnt have flown into Pittsburgh or anywhere else.  K-State and OU also drove.  Wonder if they could do the same if it moves.
2.  Moving it farther North and East seems to decrease the number of schools attending which calls into question the "National" nature of the tournament.  We do have 3 JV/Nov Nationals now.  Maybe Regionalized is better, who knows.  But I do think MIdwest and even Mid-Central numbers will decrease.
3.  Tuna is right.  Listen to one of the Jacobsen winners. : )  Seriously, there are always food issues.  My vegetarian was fine however.  And yes El Mariachi was great Mexican food.  Tuna is also right about the Fri-Mon thing.  Outrounds on Monday makes sense--for us we sacrifice Tuesday classes on the return.  But we dont have to miss Thursday classes to come like we did this year so it all balances out.  
4.  Neil, thanks so much for taking the criticisms and concerns with such dignity.  I dont know how you do it.  If I coudl encourage you to do one thing it would be this: Dont let Monday be the guiding day in which to decide.  A lot of the Mid-America folks are attending JCCC this weekend for the MIdwest JV/Nov Nats and we may not be able to keep up with the discussion over the weekend as much as we'd like.  Dont take silence as disinterest.  We are just busy with tournament duties.  So let the conversation stretch past that is possible.
5.  We would like to come back to Morgantown.  We'd like it to be for Eastern JV/Nov Nats. If you decide to not host, please host an invitational that we can attend.

>>> "NEIL BERCH" <berchnorto at msn.com> 3/8/2006 3:30 PM >>>

OK, part of the problem here is that I've been too quick to click the send 
button, both to say that we would do it and to say that we wouldn't.  Going 
back a few years, Towson hosted, and it was just assumed they would do so 
until they said they wouldn't.  Georgetown hosted last year, and it was 
assumed they would do so until they said they wouldn't.  I thought the same 
applied to us, but it's clear now that there are both concerns and a 
soon-to-be-competing offer.  So, I will outline our proposal, and then I 
will leave it up to "the community" to decide both how to decide and what 
decision to make (and to decide who "the community" is).  As I indicated 
earlier, our ability to host is dependent upon the continued availability of 
hotel space for the Monday rounds.  And, it's not fair (nor has my 
indecision been fair) to Beth, Andy, Chris, and Darren to hold this up for a 
long time.  So, a quick decision is both good and necessary.

So, people should talk about how to decide between us hosting JV/Novice Nats 
next year, Towson hosting them, and someone else (yet unspoken) hosting 
them, and they should voice their opinion.  One thing not to be concerned 
with:  as far as I know, we're not mad at anyone.  Indeed, I've had pleasant 
backchannel conversations with both Andy and Jimbo in the last 16 hours (in 
the latter case, mostly at Matt Stannard's expense).

Here's what we're proposing:
a)  Saturday-Monday, with 4 rounds on Saturday, 3 prelims plus doubles on 
Sunday, remaining outrounds at the hotel on Monday.
b)  better trophies
c)  a modified preference system (4-6 categories), supplemented by a strike 
sheet for later outrounds; I've gotten some advice from Gary Larson on how 
to improve preferences within that system.  Tab room to be run by WVU, with 
WVU debaters not competing (I just conversed with much of my team, and they 
continue to be OK with that).
d)  most or all meals provided, with consultation with Jimbo and others on 
vegetarian and vegan alternatives (I would note that there were more places 
open late at night in Morgantown than he reported).
e)  hopefully, the use of one or two closer builidings.
f)   an entry fee that will be a little less than what Georgetown charged, 
and which can be reduced by $35 per qualified round of extra judging offered 
(meaning if you enter two teams and offer 13 rounds of qualified judging 
instead of 7, your fees would be waived entirely).
g)  a requirement that judges must have judged 12 rounds on the topic 
(waivable in extremely compelling circumstances).

I will now sit back and observe (though I may answer factual questions).  I 
would like to have this decided in the next 5 days (by the end of the day on 
Monday).  If the answer is not readily apparent by then, I will consult with 
our good friends at Towson and anyone else who expresses an interest.  Since 
there is no formal process for deciding this, the "community" needs to 
figure out how to do it.

We're happy either way.  Part of me says we really liked hosting this.  Part 
of me says that I haven't done right by my students, as I've spent too much 
time this year on regional rep duties (term soon to expire), tabbing 
tournaments (we're about to have a bright group of new--and 
gender-balanced--tab room directors training to tab East region 
tournaments), and doing this tournament.  So, whatever people want is fine 
with us.

Neil Berch
West Virginia University

>From: "Kate Baxter-Kauf" <katekauf at hotmail.com>
>To: edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: Re: [eDebate] WVU course reversal? SAY IT AIN'T SO!
>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 13:29:51 -0500
>I agree profoundly with Tuna.  We had an excellent time in Morgantown, and 
>continue to be just awed by the degree of professionalism, sacrifice, and 
>helpfulness shown by the West Virginia University debate program and Neil 
>There is no doubt that more discussions can always be had about inclusion, 
>especially about food choices, but considering the work and effort put in 
>by WVU for a *free* tournament, most of that can be dealt with with 
>preplanning and a little squad effort.  The Buffalo squad consists of one 
>picky eater and one vegan, and they were more than satisfied with the 
>options available, and more than willing to bring food along and eat at 
>night after the tournament as well.
>--- Kate Baxter-Kauf
>University of Rochester/SUNY-Buffalo
>katekauf at yahoo.com
>From: Alfred Snider <alfred.snider at uvm.edu>
>To: berchnorto at msn.com, edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: [eDebate] WVU course reversal? SAY IT AIN'T SO!
>Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 13:21:51 -0500
> >Just the sight of the subject line on Neil's post in the index of my
> >digest made me shivver.
> >
> >I urge WVU to hold the tournament again. Minor changes solve all salient
> >complaints.
> >
> >A huge flood of complements and the tournament is gone because of
> >Jimbo's post? Come on, this is debate ... and the balance of arguments
> >should hold sway.
> >
> >The Sat-Sun-Mon plan solves all of my concerns about the tournament.
> >
> >Location?
> >We drove a long way and will do it again. An East Coast location makes
> >it really difficult for our D3 friends and others.
> >There were lots of
>excellent places to eat. The Black Bear rocks. I had
> >a good Mexican meal at El Mariachi.
> >
> >UDL?
> >We have a ton of tournaments during the year. I have seen MANY UDL
> >students at tournaments. Schools affiliated with UDLs should offer a
> >tournament and urge people to come. This is not a strong reason to dump
> >WVU, and I speak as someone who has been involved in the UDL movement
> >since the beginning.
> >
> >Food?
> >Ever worked in a restaurant? Some people are always unhappy. My crew had
> >no problem. Why not stay at WVU and switch away from Subway?
> >
> >Monday? Friday? Class?
> >We cannot have a two day tournament. Something's got to give wherever we 
> >
> >Future?
> >We need to establish and keep a location for this very important
> >tournament. Otherwise it will be marginalized. I say WVU
>unless CEDA
> >will host and sponsor a tournament that moves from region to region and
> >that people bid for.
> >
> >Please join me in urging Neil to reconsider his withdrawal.
> >
> >Tuna
> >
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