[eDebate] discussion: judge commitments at tournaments

zompetti at aol.com zompetti
Tue Nov 21 10:12:43 CST 2006

not only is there the underrepresentation of women and people of color in our judging pools/panels, but requiring an extra 10% of judging negatively impacts schools with small budgets or who may be struggling to develop their programs.
if this 10% issue is a serious problem with mpj, i strongly encourage the community to reconsider mpj in its entirety.  yes - throw the baby out with the bathwater.  was it really so bad 5-10 years ago when we all debated when we had to debate in front of a variety of different judges?  When we had to learn to adapt?  When we didn't create argument niches based upon preferred judging?
In all fairness, mpj may seriously be making our debates WORSE, not better.  
-----Original Message-----
From: delliott at kckcc.edu
To: stannardmatt at hotmail.com; edebate at ndtceda.com; hansonjb at whitman.edu
Sent: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [eDebate] discussion: judge commitments at tournaments

I've been wrestling with MPJ a lot lately (and you can see more of it in
my soon to be posted 2nd VP report).  Years of data points to an
under-representation of females and persons of color especially in elims
at National Circuit Tournaments.  How about this.  In addition to Jim's
proposal, I am interested in what the community thinks about the idea of
every judge that self-identifies as qualifying for the affirmative
action pool be automatically made an A+ or a 100 by the tournament
without the ability to be ranked anything else by tournament

It seems to be a preferable alt. to the status quo and for those who
like MPJ is a preferable alt. to elimination of MPJ.



Darren Elliott
Director of Debate--KCKCC
CEDA 2nd VP 

>>> "Jim Hanson" <hansonjb at whitman.edu> 11/20/06 8:30 PM >>>
perhaps a bit but not anywhere near to having 10% excess judging and it 
would only help in the sense that teams might get less pref'd judges
round who would not have normally been used (defeating the purpose of 
ensuring high prefs as well as likely creating some rounds where one
gets a highly pref'd critic that the other team views as a very low pref


jim :)
hansonjb at whitman.edu
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "matt stannard" <stannardmatt at hotmail.com>
To: <edebate at ndtceda.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [eDebate] discussion: judge commitments at tournaments


Would it help solve the judge-crunch problem if the first round of every
tournament was random judging, and every round after that was MPJ?


>From: "Jim Hanson" <hansonjb at whitman.edu>
>To: "Jim Hanson" <hansonjb at whitman.edu>,"EDebate Listserv"
><edebate at ndtceda.com>
>Subject: Re: [eDebate] discussion: judge commitments at tournaments
>Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:13:58 -0800
>i've received several backchannels.
>i'll add two additional comments/ideas to what i've proposed:
>1. expect an extra round of judging from highly pref'd judges ONLY if
>have half or less commitments OR they specifically request to be able
>judge more rounds (i definitely favor this idea and hereby amend my
>2. consider refunding the $5 extra fee per team to schools whose judges
>contribute their full commitment of judging (not so strong on this but
>seems pretty fair to me in the abstract; in practice, maybe a little
>difficult for tournament directors to get this money back).
>jim :)
>hansonjb at whitman.edu
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jim Hanson
>To: EDebate Listserv
>Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 10:54 AM
>Subject: [eDebate] discussion: judge commitments at tournaments
>i'm writing to encourage a mindset shift in judge commitments at
>with the advent of mutual preferenced judging, the traditional 1 team =
>judge commitment no longer works.
>why? because if you really want mpj where teams get judges who they
>highly, then you need an excess of judging, to the tune of about 10%
>the 1 team = 1/2 judge commitment.
>i guess we can have another debate on the merits of mpj but i want mpj;
>want teams to have the judges they rank the highest. i think there is
>based support for that sentiment. i thus encourage tournament directors
>do the following:
>1. hire highly pref'd judges at the tournament. specifically:
>--at the beginning of a tournament, notify highly preferred judges that
>they are expected to judge an extra round at the tournament (obviously,
>this expectation will have exceptions; tournament directors and the
>involved can hopefully handle these reasonably)
>--charge an extra $5 per team entry fee and use the money generated to
>these judges a nice amount of money for that extra round ($40?)
>2. require schools to provide an extra round of commitment for the 3rd,
>5th, etc. team (e.g. at an 8 round tournament; 3 teams would require 13
>rounds commitment; 4 teams 17 rounds; 5 teams 22 rounds; etc.).
>should allow teams to buy out of this extra round of commitment ($40ish
>some similar fee used to help pay the highly pref'd judges for extra
>i'm aware that this means slightly higher tournament costs but it is a
>small amount of money for the benefit and it would be going to some of
>most income deprived, hardest working, and smartest minds in our
>jim :)
>hansonjb at whitman.edu
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