[eDebate] Ledewitz terrorism link to Morrison

matt stannard stannardmatt
Fri Sep 8 13:49:42 CDT 2006


What Elliot is really arguing is that we should NOT contact the author of a 
piece of evidence for clarification if we feel that piece of evidence is 
being deployed out of context, or is ambiguous.  Moreover, we should NOT 
share the results of that conversation with the debate community.

So, Swampy, if we should NOT contact an author, what, exactly, should we do?

mjs


>From: "Josh Hoe" <jbhdb8 at gmail.com>
>To: "scottelliott at grandecom.net" <scottelliott at grandecom.net>
>CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
>Subject: Re: [eDebate] Ledewitz terrorism link to Morrison
>Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:28:29 -0400
>
>Hello,
>
>First, the problem with this exchange is that you keep equivicating what I
>did to a hypothetical "nightmare" scenario that is NOT even close to what I
>did.
>
>Second, your argument is either a) You suspect me of literally fabricating
>my conversation - if so I will send you the email exchanges I had with him
>and you can email them and verify the conversations.  If that is your
>argument it is very insulting and I am not sure what I ever did to justify
>you thinking I would fabricate evidence ever - much less to get an internal
>link take-out to at best a bad add-on advantage for which there are better
>internal links.  b) you think somehow, if he had answered differently it 
>was
>bad precedent.
>
>Here is literally my thought process - I saw a card that I could not 
>explain
>to my students with conclusions that would be run by people throughout the
>year.  I figured it would be a good idea to find out what the warrant was -
>so that in cross-x there could be a meaningful answer to the question
>"why?"  This seems to me to be a good practice.  If he had said 
>"leadership"
>or whatever you said in your response then that would allow us or any team
>running Morrison to answer that cross-x question "leadership" and more
>important for the other team debating to answer the right internal link.  
>In
>other words, the information helps BOTH teams have a deeper and better
>debate.  We, hypothetically, know what advantage we can run and they know
>what internal link they can answer or turn.  In NO world does this justify
>what most of your nightmare scenarios are based around.  I do not think
>debaters or coaches should lead authors toward writing cards (witness in my
>exchange I asked literally - you said this....why?).  I simply thought it
>would be nice for everyone to know what the heck Ledewitz meant when he 
>said
>Morrison overrule key to fighting terrorism.  Thats it....job done.
>
>Now, that said - I get that you are either crucifying me by some red 
>herring
>OR you are making a slippery slope argument.  If it is the slippery slope
>argument you certainly cannot say that I am justifying the end result of 
>the
>slope.  I think we can both agree on about 95% of what you are saying.  So,
>rather than continually making insulting claims about my professionalism 
>and
>saying things that are CLEARLY not what I did could you please just engage
>in a civil discussion about how to set better ethical limits for what we
>should aspire to?
>
>I responded in the first place because your original email accused me of
>something I did not do.  It also seemed to suggest that I was acting
>unethically to cheat on behalf of my team.  If I did that to you - you 
>would
>be pissed as well.
>
>
>Josh
>
>
>
>On 9/8/06, scottelliott at grandecom.net <scottelliott at grandecom.net> wrote:
>>
>>One last set of comments on this issue.
>>
>>I e-mailed Professor Ledewitz yesterday. Here is the response:
>>
>>LEDEWITZ: "I had no idea of the implications of my e-mail correspondence.
>>I do
>>not want such conversations used to help a debate team win debate rounds.
>>However, upon further review and based on your arguments, I agree that the
>>Morrison decision really did lead to the proliferation of international
>>terrorist groups. The inability to have a centralized response could lead
>>to
>>future terrorist strikes in the United States, and I do not mean just the
>>abuse
>>of women, but the introduction of chemical, biological, or nuclear devices
>>onto
>>American soil."
>>
>>Elliott: "But Professor Ledewitz, would overturning Morrison have any
>>effect on
>>this problem?"
>>
>>LEDEWITZ: "Yes. Ibelieve it will for two reasons. First overturing
>>Morrison
>>would boost United States credibility, our moral leadership. This
>>leadership is
>>necessary to promote U.S. anti-terrorism efforts world wide. Second,
>>overturning
>>Morrison would allow centralized responses to terrorist threats.
>>Disjunctions
>>between state and federal authorities is working to harm U.S. national
>>security, and must be stopped."
>>
>>Elliott: "Wow. Thank you Professor Ledewitz. I am now your number one
>>biggest
>>fan. You can have my first born and I hope you will continue to converse
>>with
>>me on these issues. Especially around late March 2007, I will need to
>>correspond with you again. I have a really big exam called the NDT that
>>month.
>>Your input could really help me."
>>
>>LEDEWITZ: "No problem. I am always eager to help young female students
>>with
>>their homework and to enlighten them on this important issues. Thanks for
>>the
>>photgraph."
>>
>>End of e-mail.
>>
>>
>>Those are some sweet cards. Please use them in rounds with my blessing.
>>
>>
>>
>>Now obviously THIS WAS COMPLETELY MADE UP. THIS WAS A FABRICATION. DO NOT
>>READ
>>IT IN ROUNDS.
>>
>>But this proves a critical point--how the hell would you verify the
>>veracity of
>>this? Just last year, the winner of the Texas High School State
>>Championship
>>had to forfeit their win. Why? because one of the debaters fabricated
>>evidence
>>for wins. So, this is not just a hypothetical "angels on pins" issue, but
>>a real
>>issue of what debaters will do in order to secure a win.
>>
>>I will state on the record that I assume Josh is an honest and ethical
>>person.
>>And that his first post is accurate. But how the hell would I know? How
>>would I
>>verify it? Trust? Nice standard.
>>
>>I agree with most of what Eric Morris says in his post. But, I think this
>>new
>>issue of verification should put the kabache on this type of usage. Not
>>only
>>can a person solicit a desired response from a professor through creative
>>questioning. But, they could also out and out fabricate a discussion. I
>>ask you
>>to go back and look at Josh's original post and the one I totally made up.
>>Absent my posting that it was totally made up, how could you possibly tell
>>the
>>difference?
>>
>>I disagree with Eric's contention that it is not an ethical issue. Why is
>>fabricating evidence unethical--or is it? I suggest that many of the same
>>reasons one would give for saying fabrication is unethical and should not
>>be
>>condoned, would also apply to people ginning up evidence via solicitation
>>of
>>key quotes from experts.
>>
>>Scott
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>eDebate mailing list
>>eDebate at ndtceda.com
>>http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
>>


>_______________________________________________
>eDebate mailing list
>eDebate at ndtceda.com
>http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate






More information about the Mailman mailing list