[eDebate] Challenge to the Community

Andy Ellis andy.edebate
Wed Apr 4 17:12:55 CDT 2007


So tell me omri (and i dont ask this with the lazy revolutionary bombast i
often espouse) what have you learned from a year of milliken debates that
you are now using and working with your debaters on to address racial
discrimination in education?

On 4/4/07, Omri Ceren <ceren at usc.edu> wrote:
>
> No. You just don't get it.
>
> There's actually a relatively robust criticism to be made of you,
> tracing how risk-free revolutionary posturing can hold the good hostage
> to the perfect while using aggressive smugness to insulate intellectual
> laziness. So for instance, no one of any intellectual care would claim
> to have seen the best debaters in the country claiming that "law is [the
> best method]... of pursuing racial justice in education". First of all,
> outside of a very precise use in pyschoanalytic critical literature,
> "the Law" isn't a meaningful category. There are multiple branches and
> levels of government empowered to enforce legislative and judicial
> decisions - and while I know that most of the debates that you saw this
> year didn't really think that those distinctions mattered, that's kind
> of my point too.
>
> Anyway, like I said - there's a relatively robust criticism of your
> personal sensibility, political ideology, and interpersonal community.
> But I doubt you'd get it.
>
> Omri.
>
>
> On 4/4/2007 3:00 PM Andy Ellis wrote:
> > Uh right, i will continue to do the work outside of the legal structure
> > and in it when necessary to increase minority access to and completion
> > of college. I dont doubt the  efficacy of my methods, and sure i didnt
> > see the same debates you saw but my term heard and i saw many teams
> > adamently defending the necessity of using the law to challenege racial
> > discrimination and i am simply asking those that made the claims to
> > follow up on them.
> >
> > Furthermore i understand debaters cant sue for other peoples
> > inclusion(in a basic sense of the term i think there could be a claimant
> > who suggested that they where damaged by the lack of minority inclusion
> > in the community, but im probably wrong like you said im not in the
> > highly technical debates) but there are legal cases and movements that
> > debaters can contribute their skills and dedication to and furthermore
> > if through those super high end debates you saw provide the training
> > they promise then it seems as if you can figure out how to uses cases on
> > your campus as entree points to legal justice movements.
> >
> > or maybe all those things i heard in debates where just lies and nods to
> > racial inclusion?
> >
> > On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* < ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>> wrote:
> >
> >     Andy,
> >
> >     Surely you should be leading this effort, what with all of the
> >     topic-specific research that I'm sure you did this year. And with
> all
> >     the high-tech policy rounds that you judged and scouted.
> >
> >     Omri.
> >
> >     On 4/4/2007 9:55 AM Andy Ellis wrote:
> >      > So after a year of hearing debates about how the law is not only
> >     a good
> >      > means of pursuing racial justice in education, but the best
> method, i
> >      > have a challenge to offer. Use the skills that you have acquired
> in
> >      > debating about the law to craft a strategy that uses the law to
> >     increase
> >      > meaningful minority participation in the community. The NCAA has
> been
> >      > sued for admissions requirements that preference test scores and
> >     gpa, if
> >      > there is precedent in that or other cases there should be a case
> >     to sue
> >      > your university or your debate team or ceda or the ndt, if they
> have
> >      > those standards. But dont let my suggestions limit you, many many
> >     many
> >      > of you have researched and learned a whole lot about using the
> >     law to
> >      > fight for racial justice in education, you im sure can come up
> with
> >      > something on your own.
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >
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> >
> >     --
> >
> >
> >     --------------
> >     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
> >     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>
> >     Mobile: 412-512-7256
> >     --------------
> >
> >
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>
> --------------
> PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
> Email: ceren at usc.edu
> Mobile: 412-512-7256
> --------------
>
>
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