[eDebate] Challenge to the Community

Omri Ceren ceren
Wed Apr 4 17:15:57 CDT 2007


Ah! Very clever. See what you did there? It was a little fliparound - 
kind of turn! I guess I was wrong about you.

I don't have a good answer to your question. I worked on our Quirin neg. 
As a direct result, I'm now a passionate public advocate for the 
continued legality of coerced interrogations.

And they say debate can't have real world effects.

Omri.

On 4/4/2007 3:12 PM Andy Ellis wrote:
> So tell me omri (and i dont ask this with the lazy revolutionary bombast 
> i often espouse) what have you learned from a year of milliken debates 
> that you are now using and working with your debaters on to address 
> racial discrimination in education?
> 
> On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* <ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>> wrote:
> 
>     No. You just don't get it.
> 
>     There's actually a relatively robust criticism to be made of you,
>     tracing how risk-free revolutionary posturing can hold the good hostage
>     to the perfect while using aggressive smugness to insulate intellectual
>     laziness. So for instance, no one of any intellectual care would claim
>     to have seen the best debaters in the country claiming that "law is [the
>     best method]... of pursuing racial justice in education". First of all,
>     outside of a very precise use in pyschoanalytic critical literature,
>     "the Law" isn't a meaningful category. There are multiple branches and
>     levels of government empowered to enforce legislative and judicial
>     decisions - and while I know that most of the debates that you saw this
>     year didn't really think that those distinctions mattered, that's kind
>     of my point too.
> 
>     Anyway, like I said - there's a relatively robust criticism of your
>     personal sensibility, political ideology, and interpersonal community.
>     But I doubt you'd get it.
> 
>     Omri.
> 
> 
>     On 4/4/2007 3:00 PM Andy Ellis wrote:
>      > Uh right, i will continue to do the work outside of the legal
>     structure
>      > and in it when necessary to increase minority access to and
>     completion
>      > of college. I dont doubt the  efficacy of my methods, and sure i
>     didnt
>      > see the same debates you saw but my term heard and i saw many teams
>      > adamently defending the necessity of using the law to challenege
>     racial
>      > discrimination and i am simply asking those that made the claims to
>      > follow up on them.
>      >
>      > Furthermore i understand debaters cant sue for other peoples
>      > inclusion(in a basic sense of the term i think there could be a
>     claimant
>      > who suggested that they where damaged by the lack of minority
>     inclusion
>      > in the community, but im probably wrong like you said im not in the
>      > highly technical debates) but there are legal cases and movements
>     that
>      > debaters can contribute their skills and dedication to and
>     furthermore
>      > if through those super high end debates you saw provide the training
>      > they promise then it seems as if you can figure out how to uses
>     cases on
>      > your campus as entree points to legal justice movements.
>      >
>      > or maybe all those things i heard in debates where just lies and
>     nods to
>      > racial inclusion?
>      >
>      > On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* < ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>
>     <mailto:ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     Andy,
>      >
>      >     Surely you should be leading this effort, what with all of the
>      >     topic-specific research that I'm sure you did this year. And
>     with all
>      >     the high-tech policy rounds that you judged and scouted.
>      >
>      >     Omri.
>      >
>      >     On 4/4/2007 9:55 AM Andy Ellis wrote:
>      >      > So after a year of hearing debates about how the law is
>     not only
>      >     a good
>      >      > means of pursuing racial justice in education, but the
>     best method, i
>      >      > have a challenge to offer. Use the skills that you have
>     acquired in
>      >      > debating about the law to craft a strategy that uses the
>     law to
>      >     increase
>      >      > meaningful minority participation in the community. The
>     NCAA has been
>      >      > sued for admissions requirements that preference test
>     scores and
>      >     gpa, if
>      >      > there is precedent in that or other cases there should be
>     a case
>      >     to sue
>      >      > your university or your debate team or ceda or the ndt, if
>     they have
>      >      > those standards. But dont let my suggestions limit you,
>     many many
>      >     many
>      >      > of you have researched and learned a whole lot about using the
>      >     law to
>      >      > fight for racial justice in education, you im sure can
>     come up with
>      >      > something on your own.
>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >    
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>      >     --
>      >
>      >
>      >     --------------
>      >     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
>      >     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu> <mailto:
>     ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>>
>      >     Mobile: 412-512-7256
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>     --------------
>     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
>     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>
>     Mobile: 412-512-7256
>     --------------
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--------------
PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
Email: ceren at usc.edu
Mobile: 412-512-7256
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