[eDebate] Challenge to the Community

Andy Ellis andy.edebate
Wed Apr 4 17:17:20 CDT 2007


Also, what is it exactly that i am doing that you are elaborating a
community critique of?...like is this a criticism that goes andy ellis is a
wacko  or does it actualy engage the work being done on the ground in
baltimore to further this goal,if its the former i know that stuff if its
the latter, id like to hear your version of that criticism....

On 4/4/07, Andy Ellis <andy.edebate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So tell me omri (and i dont ask this with the lazy revolutionary bombast i
> often espouse) what have you learned from a year of milliken debates that
> you are now using and working with your debaters on to address racial
> discrimination in education?
>
> On 4/4/07, Omri Ceren <ceren at usc.edu> wrote:
> >
> > No. You just don't get it.
> >
> > There's actually a relatively robust criticism to be made of you,
> > tracing how risk-free revolutionary posturing can hold the good hostage
> > to the perfect while using aggressive smugness to insulate intellectual
> > laziness. So for instance, no one of any intellectual care would claim
> > to have seen the best debaters in the country claiming that "law is [the
> > best method]... of pursuing racial justice in education". First of all,
> > outside of a very precise use in pyschoanalytic critical literature,
> > "the Law" isn't a meaningful category. There are multiple branches and
> > levels of government empowered to enforce legislative and judicial
> > decisions - and while I know that most of the debates that you saw this
> > year didn't really think that those distinctions mattered, that's kind
> > of my point too.
> >
> > Anyway, like I said - there's a relatively robust criticism of your
> > personal sensibility, political ideology, and interpersonal community.
> > But I doubt you'd get it.
> >
> > Omri.
> >
> >
> > On 4/4/2007 3:00 PM Andy Ellis wrote:
> > > Uh right, i will continue to do the work outside of the legal
> > structure
> > > and in it when necessary to increase minority access to and completion
> > > of college. I dont doubt the  efficacy of my methods, and sure i didnt
> > > see the same debates you saw but my term heard and i saw many teams
> > > adamently defending the necessity of using the law to challenege
> > racial
> > > discrimination and i am simply asking those that made the claims to
> > > follow up on them.
> > >
> > > Furthermore i understand debaters cant sue for other peoples
> > > inclusion(in a basic sense of the term i think there could be a
> > claimant
> > > who suggested that they where damaged by the lack of minority
> > inclusion
> > > in the community, but im probably wrong like you said im not in the
> > > highly technical debates) but there are legal cases and movements that
> > > debaters can contribute their skills and dedication to and furthermore
> > > if through those super high end debates you saw provide the training
> > > they promise then it seems as if you can figure out how to uses cases
> > on
> > > your campus as entree points to legal justice movements.
> > >
> > > or maybe all those things i heard in debates where just lies and nods
> > to
> > > racial inclusion?
> > >
> > > On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* < ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     Andy,
> > >
> > >     Surely you should be leading this effort, what with all of the
> > >     topic-specific research that I'm sure you did this year. And with
> > all
> > >     the high-tech policy rounds that you judged and scouted.
> > >
> > >     Omri.
> > >
> > >     On 4/4/2007 9:55 AM Andy Ellis wrote:
> > >      > So after a year of hearing debates about how the law is not
> > only
> > >     a good
> > >      > means of pursuing racial justice in education, but the best
> > method, i
> > >      > have a challenge to offer. Use the skills that you have
> > acquired in
> > >      > debating about the law to craft a strategy that uses the law to
> > >     increase
> > >      > meaningful minority participation in the community. The NCAA
> > has been
> > >      > sued for admissions requirements that preference test scores
> > and
> > >     gpa, if
> > >      > there is precedent in that or other cases there should be a
> > case
> > >     to sue
> > >      > your university or your debate team or ceda or the ndt, if they
> > have
> > >      > those standards. But dont let my suggestions limit you, many
> > many
> > >     many
> > >      > of you have researched and learned a whole lot about using the
> > >     law to
> > >      > fight for racial justice in education, you im sure can come up
> > with
> > >      > something on your own.
> > >      >
> > >      >
> > >      >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >      >
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> > >
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> > Date:
> > >     4/4/2007 1:09 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >     --
> > >
> > >
> > >     --------------
> > >     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
> > >     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto: ceren at usc.edu>
> > >     Mobile: 412-512-7256
> > >     --------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> > --------------
> > PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
> > Email: ceren at usc.edu
> > Mobile: 412-512-7256
> > --------------
> >
> >
>
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