[eDebate] Challenge to the Community

Omri Ceren ceren
Wed Apr 4 17:20:43 CDT 2007


Seriously? This year's Milliken affirmatives advocated using the USSC to 
address de facto segregation in school districts. You think that this 
means that they said that the "the law is the best way to end racial 
discrimination in education", and in response you petulantly chellenged 
the community to sue... itself. And you can't understand why this is an 
example of how you don't get nuance?

Seriously?

Omri.

On 4/4/2007 3:17 PM Andy Ellis wrote:
> Also, what is it exactly that i am doing that you are elaborating a 
> community critique of?...like is this a criticism that goes andy ellis 
> is a wacko  or does it actualy engage the work being done on the ground 
> in baltimore to further this goal,if its the former i know that stuff if 
> its the latter, id like to hear your version of that criticism....
> 
> On 4/4/07, *Andy Ellis* <andy.edebate at gmail.com 
> <mailto:andy.edebate at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     So tell me omri (and i dont ask this with the lazy revolutionary
>     bombast i often espouse) what have you learned from a year of
>     milliken debates that you are now using and working with your
>     debaters on to address racial discrimination in education?
> 
> 
>     On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* < ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>> wrote:
> 
>         No. You just don't get it.
> 
>         There's actually a relatively robust criticism to be made of you,
>         tracing how risk-free revolutionary posturing can hold the good
>         hostage
>         to the perfect while using aggressive smugness to insulate
>         intellectual
>         laziness. So for instance, no one of any intellectual care would
>         claim
>         to have seen the best debaters in the country claiming that "law
>         is [the
>         best method]... of pursuing racial justice in education". First
>         of all,
>         outside of a very precise use in pyschoanalytic critical literature,
>         "the Law" isn't a meaningful category. There are multiple
>         branches and
>         levels of government empowered to enforce legislative and judicial
>         decisions - and while I know that most of the debates that you
>         saw this
>         year didn't really think that those distinctions mattered,
>         that's kind
>         of my point too.
> 
>         Anyway, like I said - there's a relatively robust criticism of your
>         personal sensibility, political ideology, and interpersonal
>         community.
>         But I doubt you'd get it.
> 
>         Omri.
> 
> 
>         On 4/4/2007 3:00 PM Andy Ellis wrote:
>         >  Uh right, i will continue to do the work outside of the legal
>         structure
>         >  and in it when necessary to increase minority access to and
>         completion
>         >  of college. I dont doubt the  efficacy of my methods, and sure
>         i didnt
>         >  see the same debates you saw but my term heard and i saw many
>         teams
>         >  adamently defending the necessity of using the law to
>         challenege racial
>         >  discrimination and i am simply asking those that made the
>         claims to
>         >  follow up on them.
>         >
>         >  Furthermore i understand debaters cant sue for other peoples
>         >  inclusion(in a basic sense of the term i think there could be
>         a claimant
>         >  who suggested that they where damaged by the lack of minority
>         inclusion
>         >  in the community, but im probably wrong like you said im not
>         in the
>         >  highly technical debates) but there are legal cases and
>         movements that
>         >  debaters can contribute their skills and dedication to and
>         furthermore
>         >  if through those super high end debates you saw provide the
>         training
>         >  they promise then it seems as if you can figure out how to
>         uses cases on
>         >  your campus as entree points to legal justice movements.
>         >
>         >  or maybe all those things i heard in debates where just lies
>         and nods to
>         >  racial inclusion?
>         >
>         >  On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* < ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>
>         <mailto: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>>> wrote:
>         >
>         >     Andy,
>         >
>         >     Surely you should be leading this effort, what with all of the
>         >     topic-specific research that I'm sure you did this year.
>         And with all
>         >     the high-tech policy rounds that you judged and scouted.
>         >
>         >     Omri.
>         >
>         >     On 4/4/2007 9:55 AM Andy Ellis wrote:
>         >      > So after a year of hearing debates about how the law is
>         not only
>         >     a good
>         >      > means of pursuing racial justice in education, but the
>         best method, i
>         >      > have a challenge to offer. Use the skills that you have
>         acquired in
>         >      > debating about the law to craft a strategy that uses the
>         law to
>         >     increase
>         >      > meaningful minority participation in the community. The
>         NCAA has been
>         >      > sued for admissions requirements that preference test
>         scores and
>         >     gpa, if
>         >      > there is precedent in that or other cases there should
>         be a case
>         >     to sue
>         >      > your university or your debate team or ceda or the ndt,
>         if they have
>         >      > those standards. But dont let my suggestions limit you,
>         many many
>         >     many
>         >      > of you have researched and learned a whole lot about
>         using the
>         >     law to
>         >      > fight for racial justice in education, you im sure can
>         come up with
>         >      > something on your own.
>         >      >
>         >      >
>         >      >
>         >    
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>         >     --
>         >
>         >
>         >     --------------
>         >     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
>         >     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu> <mailto:
>         ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>>
>         >     Mobile: 412-512-7256
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> 
>         --------------
>         PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
>         Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>
>         Mobile: 412-512-7256
>         --------------
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--------------
PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
Email: ceren at usc.edu
Mobile: 412-512-7256
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