[eDebate] ans: korcok

Andrew Culp acculp
Mon Aug 6 13:59:00 CDT 2007

I'm not sure why my last post was ignored, maybe it was due to my lack of ad homs (whoops).

***Korcok's 750,000 number is incorrect in it's "per year" calculation - it includes the Irak/Iran War which was instigated by the _United States_.  Compare Saddam's 1979-2003 (24 year) rule to the United States 1991-2006 (15 year [which is when the lancet survey was done]) invasion, sanction and second invasion.

Including US provoked Irak/Iran war:
1,100,000 over 24 years
45,833 1/3 per year

Excluding Irak/Iran war:
300,000 over 24 years
12,500 per year

Extrapolating 750,000 killed by sanctions (most 'leftists' say over a million):
1,500,000 over 15 years
100,000 per year

Excluding the projected sanctions deaths (we'll round to 450,000):
1,200,000 over 15 years
80,000 per year

This all makes perfect sense because Saddam was a ruthless (socialist) secular dictator in control of massive oil reserves.  He significantly raised the "standard of living" while spreading a culture of fear and repression.

Given these facts, what Korcok should be arguing is:
1) Moralistic/deontological claims about democratic people's movements against authoritarian socialism (ie: an ability to attack authoritarian leftists by drawing connections between hugo chavez and saddam hussein?)
2) Depending on your imperialist/militaristic slant: ***what will 150,000 US troops do when they leave Irak?***  Invade Iran?  Bolster US bases? Or how is troop morale now (quite low)?  How about the recent Bush/Rumsfeld move to consolidate bases? ***social democrats and liberals need to rethink their politics on this one***

ad hom preempt: im no socialist, im an anti-revolutionary radical who believes in anti-authoritarian, de-centralized and pre-figurative politics.

A review of the numbers

100,000 Iraqis killed by American bombing in GW1 (n1 'exaggerated', 'we don't do bodycounts' engineered by Cheney <http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0211/sloyan.html>)
4-500,000 Children under 5 killed by sanctions ('far more' in total deaths, http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/2002/paper.htm)
650,000+ GW2 (http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2006/burnham_iraq_2006.html, as of 2006)

~200,000 Iraqis killed by Saddam's gulag (n1 I would put it higher, maybe 300,000 or so) over decades.
~300,000+500,000 including the Iraq/Iran War (n1) 

n1 from Frontpage (conservative rag, who for some reason, posted a NYT article) http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={0F2658E9-6A5E-45E9-ACE5-982C0CA355A1}

More information about the Mailman mailing list