[eDebate] ans: korcok re:me

Andrew Culp acculp
Tue Aug 7 18:38:22 CDT 2007


***750,000
MK: NPOV
AC: You're right.  No reason to include Iran war - but not due to US responsibility but for opp cost reasons.

MK: Opp Cost
AC: Yes and no.  I don't look at this in a vacuum.  I oppose the US just as much as I oppose Saddam.  Example: the IRAN: NEITHER U.S. AGGRESSION NOR THEOCRATIC REPRESSION campaign <http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10289>.  Additionally, I don't support sanctions - I protest that _more_ vigorously than wars of naked aggression - militarized neo-liberalism is propogated through low-intensity wars.

MK: 300,000 secret police
AC: The HRW article includes Anfal and the March uprisings in it's "maybe 400,000" count.  maybe you should have read it more thoroughly.

MK: 100-180k Anfal
AC: You're using the stats from pop NYTbestseller - your source actually says: "Independent sources estimate 50,000 to more than 100,000"

MK: March uprisings
AC: Totally the US's fault.  Leaves dissents in the dust after promising intervention.  Yikes.  Talk about fucked up world leaders.

MK: Marsh arabs
AC: Again, the US's fault.  But even if, the report you're citing is being mis-read.  200,000 were the victims of a targeted campaign, 
but are now refugees in other parts of Iraq/Iran.  Still super shitty, but not nearly the 200,000 number. (US fault -> http://www.usip.org/newsmedia/releases/2002/nb20021125.html-->

"What happened in 1991 that may have prompted this?" he {Joseph Dellapenna, Villanova University Law School} asked. "The answer is very obvious. It is that the Marsh Arabs in the south, as well as the Kurds in the north, rose in revolt against Saddam Hussein at the end of the Gulf War. The allied coalition took steps to protect the Kurds. They did not take steps to protect the Marsh Arabs."

MK: other args against my stats
AC: 
1)i work 40+ hours a week for nuclear abolition, dont have time to answer pot shots against the most advanced statistical measures to date.  did you listen to the radio show i linked?  and how much would the estimates be off w/ a main-street bias?  (and IBC is so not legit to use for a "total count"- they even admit it themselves)

2) additionally, these are "excess death" calculations, so the opp cost should be built in (though i could not be, havent read the methodology in totum).

3) I was generous with my numbers, so whatev.

here are some quality of life questions:
electricity.
housing stock.
access to food.
disease.
medical care.
civil services.
education.
women's rights.
rape.
death squads.
religious persecution.

***I will win any number count hands down with this trump card: DU.

go rent iraq in fragments and listen to that radio show I suggested (http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1157)



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