[eDebate] Later Jerry. . . .

Jonathan Karlin jonathanrkarlin
Wed May 16 02:00:54 CDT 2007


His comments on 9-11...

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the
feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to
make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American
Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the
finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

Falwell, pastor of the 22,000-member Thomas Road Baptist Church,
viewed the attacks as God's judgment on America for "throwing God out
of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to
bear some burden for this because God will not be
mocked."

We shouldnt be happy died, but he was in fact a "bigot".

On 5/16/07, Adam Farra <adamhfar at umich.edu> wrote:
> I shudder at the comments of people who defend Falwell because of his
> contributions to debate. All of you defenders should retract your comments
> immediately and publicly.
>
> "But he supported debate!" sounds like a collectively selfish standard to
> set. Yes, debate can be used for altruistic ends - but to simply turn cheek
> when we see someone who throws down cash and support for our activity...that
> is sad, especially since there are openly gay members of our community (and
> not openly gay members who are afraid of coming out) who have devoted their
> lives to this activity - what does your magnanimous support of Falwell say
> to those people? Does it liken the two? I can't imagine many members of the
> GLBT-debate community who want to be remembered WITH JERRY FALWELL for their
> contributions to debate. What are you saying to those people when we say
> "Eh, Jer-Jer - not so bad. Liked debate. Didn't like Tinky Winky."
>
> And for all of those who cite his wonderful "Q & A" sessions - I remember
> watching a debate between Jerry Falwell and Barney Frank (for all of you who
> don't know, Frank is the openly gay House Rep.) and when Frank made
> legitimate arguments about the status of homosexuals in American culture,
> Falwell's response was always "But you're a pervert!" Thank GOODNESS Barney
> Frank is such a great debater though, because the reasoning and persuasion
> deployed in that debate certainly changed Falwell's mind and made him see
> that there was a legitimate counter-argument to his advocacy of
> homophobia...oh wait a minute - no it didn't, because Falwell was hurling
> non-reasonable insults at Frank and calling them "arguments about the moral
> fiber of America." Maybe it was noble for Falwell to come to a community
> that disagreed with his opinions, but his homophobia is not something that
> was "up for debate" - and him putting it out on the table did not enrich our
> community in any way, shape, or form. I am a proud supporter of switch-side
> debate, but even I have limitations. I think "torture good" has more merit
> than "bigotry based in misinformation."
>
> I am not and would never smile for his or anyone's death (that would not
> make me much better than him - as I'm sure he smiled when HIV/AIDS ravaged
> and destroyed the lives of the gay men who "probably deserved it"), but we
> certainly should not be mourning his loss. If we want to debate Falwell -
> then we can debate what he did in his life and what he did for debate (I
> think I've made my position clear), but I'd rather stay neutral about the
> consequences about his death (for those of you who forget what neutrality is
> - it means being Switzerland: you're not for his death, and you're not
> against it - it is simply a fact).
>
> Finally - I'll add this in to pre-empt the BS response I'm sure I'll get:
> YES, WE SHOULD DEBATE CONSERVATIVES AND CONSERVATIVES SHOULD HAVE A ROLE IN
> OUR COMMUNITY. I purposely watch the GOP debates with an open mind because I
> should be educated about their positions on abortion, stem cells, the war on
> terror, the separation of church and state, taxes, immigration, even gay
> marriage, etc. But I am closing the door on some twisted pseudo-religious
> bigotry.
>
> Adam
> UMichigan
>
>
> On May 16, 2007, at 1:56 AM, Jason Jarvis wrote:
>
>
> ......just got the news about the passing of Falwell.  I dont like to revel
> in the death of anyone.  I am sure his family and his university is
> grieving.  My regrets and condolences to their pain.
>
> Jerry wasnt a Nazi.....he was just an ignorant bigot with a very public
> platform.  Ellis may have gone too far......However, it is impossible to
> ignore the fairly terrible things he advocated.  I know people who have died
> of AIDS, I have gay friends and family members who suffer from the bigotry
> and ignorance he so unapologetically espoused.
>
> He supported debate.  Hurrah!  However, it was for a political end that he
> felt debate helped him to achieve.  His Q and A sessions were a lovely
> example of non-sequiters and smoke and mirrors camouflaged as open
> discussion.
>
> Religious zealots that mix politics with god are dangerous, whether its
> Osama, Jerry Falwell, Ahmadenijad or George Bush.  At the end of the day I
> feel sorry for his loved ones, but I wont miss him or his bigotry one iota.
>
> I cant remember him ever apologizing to my family or loved ones....dont know
> why anyone else ought to be apologetic for feeling the same way I do.
>
>
> Jason L. Jarvis
>
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