[eDebate] Reactionary Provisions

J T jtedebate
Sun Nov 18 12:35:34 CST 2007


Why are we making a rule to address maybe 10% of people in the country who did LD?  Jackie is dead on here...I assume a director or two could bring in a ringer to beat up some novices---But community shame can go a long way...it happens when people think directors sandbag their JV and novice to gain points...when they do, others give them shit or outright tell them they are being uneducational asses and the situation generally resolves itself...maybe the right people just need to realize they are being uneducational asses--I don't remember this being a large problem before the rule...a few high profile complainers did not and does not warrant the rule

The Rationale operates under a few faulty assumptions:

A number of high school students are competing on the National circuit in LD which is similar to policy debate and then coming to college understanding the ins and outs of debate and debating in Novice against people who have never seen a debate before, much less 50 rounds of debate.

1. not THAT many HS LD debaters debate on the national circuit--especially given the overall number of those debaters nationwide. I was unaware that LDers have been coming in and slaughtering our poor novices--sounds like it's reaching epidemic proportions!

2. by national they mean TOC, again a small minority of the overall numbers that do not engage in policy-ish LD debate.  In many states, people in LD have to strongly guard against making any reference to "policy args" or "policy terminology" because "this is LD, not policy" as I have heard judges in Kansas and Missouri say...

3.  most do not know the lingo or have a bastardized understanding of the "ins and outs of debate"--  
--ask Blake Johnson if he knew what a floating pic was coming into to college...(if he did, I bet he forgot)--

4.experience differences will always exist, even in LD--the TOC was running T in LD when I debated...at least from Missouri we heard tall tales of such craziness...But if I had run T or a CP (and I had gone to policy camp) I would have lost and the coach bench me...

5. blurring lines is like mixing burdens---not a winning arg!  it makes no sense that someone who did LD would automatically know enough about things like framework, status and tricky perms to make a difference...I suspect this comes from Neandethal anti-K hacks...in most parts of the country (with an enormous lack in college debaters/coaches in judging pools--mostly community) Zizek, Lacan, Schlag, Foucault, Butler, Derrida never make it into an LD rounds...more like John Rawls, Kant, or some lofty crap about Justice or Hope...not real big college K authors

step out of TOC/national circuit and recognize what debate is like for the rest of the country!


"Massey, Jackie B." <debate at ou.edu> wrote: Hello,

I just wanted to offer my perspective on one of the proposed ammendment changes in the VP report.

My perspective is that we do not need rules to dictate when ethics should probably be more responsible.  I think the rule counting LD as eligibility is somewhat reactionary, and not appealing to the true hopes of participation for some, in the face of the detrmiments when a novice team gets waxed by a super LD star.

The rationale for the rule makes  too many assumptions and false categorizations from my perspective.

RATIONALE: A number of high school students are competing on the
National circuit in LD which is similar to policy debate and then coming
to college understanding the ins and outs of debate and debating in
Novice against people who have never seen a debate before, much less 50
rounds of debate. Additionally college NFA LD is policy LD and should
count as policy debate rounds. Finally, with the lines blurred in
contemporary college debate between policy and critical anyone who has
debated before, even in high school LD, has quite a leg up on a true
Novice. LD, even when not policy oriented in HS, is closer to the
critical side of the community and should count against novice
eligibility.

------- The rationale atttempts to use a false dichotomy of critical and policy to support what is acknowledged as "lines blurred".  I am somewhat of a beneficiary of this rule.  My perspective is that if a student is so far above the rest of the students, they should debate JV or open, and not stay in novice.  There are many high school LD debaters that would never debate if they were pushed into JV when they entered college debate.  More than there are that quit whenever a super novice is left in novice and waxes and wanes.  (no evidence - my opinion)

They still gotta get rid of of the "aff case" and "neg case" terminology.  The problem is some of these students do appear to know the "ins and outs"  (official langauge now) of debate, and devestate some of the new comers.  This is where i say it becomes more of an ethical issue for the coaches to move them up.  Currently the rule allows a starting point for those LD debaters  who did not travel National Circuit LD (most of them) to begin college debate and not have to compete against those who were doing CX in high school.  It cuts both ways, thats why rules arent always the answer.

Peace,

Massey
_______________________________________________
eDebate mailing list
eDebate at www.ndtceda.com
http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate



JT

Asst. Debate Coach
Emporia State University
       
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.  Make Yahoo! your homepage.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/attachments/20071118/77f0f886/attachment.htm 



More information about the Mailman mailing list