[eDebate] Proof Doc Warner isnt even reading what I write
Sun Apr 13 15:01:02 CDT 2008
>From Last night - I will highlight the key portion:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Josh <jbhdb8 at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: [CEDA-L] Educational Reflections
To: Ede Warner <ewarner at louisville.edu>
Cc: Ceda-L <ceda-l at ndtceda.com>
Here, just so this silliness can cease:
I, Josh Hoe, believe that lack of institutional support, inflation, and
declining state budgets are something we as a community should seriously
consider addressing. I believe in finding solutions to our economic
problems we might be more able to address disparities in diversity
*I, Josh Hoe, believe that we, as a community, should also embrace methods
to increase meaningful black participation in debate through the
consideration of alternate topics and alternate methods of conceptualizing
Does that clarify....Now, I am not responding to any other Doctor Warner
letters absent an apology....If Doctor Warner chooses to say this is to
destroy the credibility of his messages about debate - please refer to the
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Ede Warner <ewarner at louisville.edu>
> Where does Jackie conclude that physical exclusion (resources) means we
> shouldn't look at other issues like community norms? That's the part that
> angered me and you uniquely did it, without evidence, and you willingness to
> keep pushing without acknowledging what you did, only instead trying to
> rationalize it, only demonstrates your lack of goodwill. Good night. This
> is so much more important than what you are doing now.
> *From: * Josh <jbhdb8 at gmail.com> *To:* "Ede Warner" <
> e0warn01 at gwise.louisville.edu> *CC:* Ceda-L <ceda-l at ndtceda.com>
> *Date: * 4/13/2008 12:43 AM
> *Subject: * Re: [CEDA-L] Educational Reflections
> There is a correlative relationship from where the study started
> (budgets in 1991 about the start of CEDA decline - and my first year
> coaching) and where it ended in 2006. If you put the decline in the
> perspective of the time-line and add in his conclusions its certainly
> correlative evidence as much as anything you or anyone else has posted.
> Now, Jackie did write a long post about resources about a week or so
> ago...Obviously, he said he saw it as one of three barriers...he hasnt gone
> into detail on the others.
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 12:39 AM, Ede Warner <ewarner at louisville.edu>
> > No where does the Massey post make the argument that we should consider
> > increasing resources instead of discussing community norms. Only you did.
> > And no, your evidence doesn't support that conclusion. Your evidence
> > supports that travel is related to the number of students we travel. In
> > what world does that address with evidence the issue of who travels?
> > >>>
> > *From: * Josh <jbhdb8 at gmail.com> *To:* "Ede Warner" <
> > e0warn01 at gwise.louisville.edu> *CC:* Ceda-L <ceda-l at ndtceda.com>
> > *Date: * 4/13/2008 12:24 AM
> > *Subject: * Re: [CEDA-L] Educational Reflections
> > I have no problem with the quality of the evidence used...It was
> > correlative, but stronger then the evidence anyone else has posted. Oddly
> > enough Mr. J Massey also made a similar argument in depth a week ago and you
> > said NOTHING.
> > Josh
> > On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Ede Warner <ewarner at louisville.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > In light of the post I just made about cultural differences, I eager
> > > await Josh's advocacy of his goodwill, as opposed to only his criticism of
> > > mine. May I propose that we come to some protocol for disagreement: mine is
> > > quality of evidence to support one's claims. What's yours Josh? I also
> > > wonder when you will engage the content productively looking past my
> > > goodwill issues.
> > >
> > > Ede Warner, Jr.
> > > Director of Debate Society/Associate Professor of Communication
> > > University of Louisville
> > > 308E Strickler Hall
> > > 502-852-3522
> > > ewarner at louisville.edu
> > > http://uofldebate.com/
> > >
> > > >>>
> > > *From: * Josh <jbhdb8 at gmail.com> *To:* "Ede Warner" <
> > > e0warn01 at gwise.louisville.edu> *CC:* Ceda-L <ceda-l at ndtceda.com> *Date:
> > > * 4/12/2008 11:49 AM *Subject: * Re: [CEDA-L] Educational Reflections
> > > Hello "Fellow Directors and Coaches"
> > >
> > > I will be accused of obfuscation so I want to make clear...With some
> > > exceptions I agree with many of Doctor Warners arguments here. I am
> > > positing in relation to a comment he made at the bottom of this post:
> > >
> > > "3) Going forward. All I got is my goodwill. My personal evolution
> > > is that I have followed in Plato's footsteps."
> > >
> > > I would like to question the "goodwill" part of this statement.
> > > Yesterday, I wrote a post having, I guess, the temerity to suggest that
> > > resource disparity was a "larger" threat to program survival than "techne."
> > > In response Doctor Warner posted the following as a "goodwill ambassador"
> > >
> > > EW: It almost seems as if you are just flailing, desperate for
> > > anything to move the current debate in a different direction. That's
> > > morbidly sad, but even worse, do you not understand that it's exactly the
> > > quality of arguments made in these efforts to avoid the truth that keep
> > > making me more convinced debate needs something different? The coach of a
> > > late out-round team at the NDT makes an argument lacking basic reasoning
> > > skills.
> > >
> > > EW: You look like a sad, under-educated self-serving obstructionist
> > > that will do anything with and to evidence to justify and protect your
> > > world. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but this is really frustrating to a
> > > productive community conversation. Please stop.
> > >
> > > When I wrote a second email saying that I was venting my frustration
> > > about personal issues related to funding at Michigan Doctor Warner
> > >
> > > EW: No pity parties or apologies today. Engage productively and with
> > > some integrity or go away...This is bigger than your feelings or mine,
> > > whether you see that or not.
> > >
> > > Oddly enough, today finds Doctor Warner running to CEDA-L - the place
> > > created for Directors to speak without the usual "cruel"
> > > edebate environment.
> > >
> > > I guess my point is beware of disagreeing with Mr. Plato.
> > >
> > > Again, I strongly suggest that the content of Doctor Warners thought
> > > is worth investigating. However, dont have the timerity to disagree even
> > > respectfully (I believe I was actually complementary in my response to his
> > > insults).
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
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