[eDebate] Omri, etc.

Maggie Berthiaume maggiekb
Thu Apr 3 06:59:34 CDT 2008

I realize my statement "this is easy to fix" appears to be a tech  
assessment rather than a norm assessment.  Sorry about that - as  
Omri, Michael and others accurately point out, I am not qualified to  
talk about this particular area of tech.  I meant that statement that  
as a consideration of what we should try to do - and I absolutely  
think whoever has to do it should be highly compensated for their  
time.  There's no reason Phil should have to suffer for our  
collective mistakes - but probably Kacey shouldn't have to either,  
given that she didn't write the post in question.

I was going to put that in my last post, but it seemed awkward given  
the smaller point I was (trying to) make.  Now I realize the absence  
leaves me essentially demanding free labor (on behalf of Kacey, but  
still free labor), which was certainly not my intent.  I'm okay with  
the paying for post-removal idea. I also think that if we get some  
sort of system in place to remove posts, everyone who supported it  
should donate to edebate even if they don't have a particular post  
they want removed.  I'm certainly happy to - it's a great service.

I'll leave the tech question to others, but Eber's post (and a few  
notable others from edebate I searched for last night that have been  
removed) seem to imply this is do-able.  If the answer is "posts can  
be removed, but once google has them it's all over," that would be  
something I imagine would be useful for people to know.


On Apr 3, 2008, at 1:12 AM, Omri Ceren wrote:

> And if you think law firms are obsessed with reputation, may I suggest
> that activists and lobbyists are also not insensitive to reputation?
>  From what I can tell edebate is powered by GNU Mailman 2.1. The  
> archive
> backend is managed through Pipermail. The thing about Pipermail is  
> that
> it sucks. It's clunky and slow and in need of a total rewrite. But  
> still
> - it shouldn't take Kerp more than 30 minutes to track down the  
> emails,
> nuke them, and then rebuild the archive.
> That wouldn't fix how those emails still stored on the mirrored
> archives. And it certainly wouldn't do anything about the copies on  
> the
> Google and Yahoo and Live caches. And he can't remove those because  
> he's
> not the original author of the emails. So I have to disagree with
> Margaret about how "this is easy to fix."
> No one is even sure if a listowner *can* get Google to remove someone
> else's emails from a listserv cache. Companies like Google are
> notoriously bad about responding to user complaints. You can get away
> with that when you run a platform that people get to use for free.
> Because honestly - what kind of person has the surreal sense of
> entitlement that it would take to aggressively attack someone else who
> provides them with years and years of a free service.
> On that note - I haven't seen a particular rush to hit Kerp's tip jar
> lately. Server space and bandwidth cost money that come out of  
> Kerpen's
> pocket, after all. To say nothing of the time and energy that it takes
> to do grunt work like cleaning out spam filters, getting in touch with
> the hosting company when the server hiccups, etc. Instead of tips,
> though, he gets personal attacks.  And so I also have to disagree with
> Brent that "no one disputes" that Kerpen deserves thanks for literally
> years and years of totally voluntary contributions to the community.
> Omri.
> -- 
> --------------
> PhD Candidate, USC Annenberg School for Communication
> Email: ceren at usc.edu
> Mobile: 412-512-7256
> --------------
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Maggie Berthiaume
Director of Debate
Lexington High School
maggiekb at gmail.com

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