[eDebate] High Fives in the hallway...

Andy Ellis andy.edebate
Mon Apr 7 21:22:26 CDT 2008

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Massey, Jackie B. <debate at ou.edu> wrote:

> I think I noticed some of the things andy was hinting at during the NDT...
> was it
> a. All the high fives in the hallway after Towson Lossed?

yes and the accompanying comments "yes! debate is not racist"(as if whether
towson won or not changed the truth claims of that statement) "who
sat...malcom...figures( i thought it figured because malcom keeps the best
flow  of any of those five judges...but more on that below) "i was worried
martin was gonna get screwed again, but i figured we could count on that
panel"...of course JT is right some of these high fives where because martin
won, but others where decidely different and i think some of you know
this...more on the malcom thing soooo....i go on believing and explaining to
the debaters that now come on that coulda meant alot of things...then sunday
night i hear...fucking malcom, keeps voting for towson...maybe he just feels
guilty...i dont know but did you see him go for that chicken when the towson
coach brought it in?" REALLY, come on now i know the speaker of that
statement...who i dont know...was drunkining but come on...

> b. The trading of evidence between teams focused on Towson? (even the
> constant discussions behind closed hotel room doors about this)

Yes and the whispers of those trades being unique to the squads that where
doing it, ie they dont normally trade ev on people...and trading it with
people who where not per se from district three, just offering it up...

> c. The comments about how CEDA Nationals is not the real National
> Championship or a fluke tournament?

Yes and the money people won from people betting against cl(i think they
covered the spread), now that may not be per se racist, but i doubt it would
have happened as much if two white debaters had won in a surprising turn of
events. i could be wrong there though.

Lets add to that "white guilt" "did they win by saying they where black"
"always count on ceda for the liberal feel good nationals" "what you all did
to ft hays was wrong" "now what are you gonna do that you said winning ceda
solves racism...(pretty sure cl never came close to making that argument)

Lets also add to that the fact that at many point kansas js had the same win
count and ballot count towson had, after day 2 both ceda final teams where
4-2 with 9 ballots, but the comments at the tournament and on
cross-x.comwhere about how towson was seeing what the ndt was
like...and maybe some of
that was directed at kansas js as well...but my guess is a) not as much and
b) to some degree because towson  was "overperforming"

then the charge of "easy draw" at the ndt... lets see idaho state 4-4 i
think dartmouth ah...wga ls (quarters)...mo state mm (octs) UCO CE (doubles)
USC LS (octs) Mo state ow (quarters) MSU LM 4-4... so what about that was

Now in this conversation comes the charge "when you use revolutionary menas
the people the debate community who you are revolting against will be mad"
maybe so...but is the reasonable response for americas best debaters to say
"well if they think we are racist, we will show them racism"

The reality of all of this is that the people who have been on the
frontlines of making the debate community as a whole more racially inclusive
and trying to challenge the community to look at its practices, have heard
it all before, the ceda victory brought it more to the surface, but its
always been there (as if when dayvon and deven feel motivated to call the
community white suprmacist they are just being irrational and making it up).

that doesnt mean that everybody was racist. Some of the most schism crossing
congratulations i have ever heard where delivered at the NDT. People who
previously had rarely spoken to me or the debaters where reaching out, and
following our rounds just as closely as our coaches and scouts where. In
fact the notion that the old guard was engaging in some sort of conspiracy
was exactly the opposite, im not sure who the old guard is but im pretty
sure each of them expressed excitement that a small budget school at its
first ndt in 12 years and its second ever was on the way to clearing...but
there where other people who didnt deal so well...i think its important to
recognize the contradtictions and not let the good invalidate the bad or
vice versa, oh and let me throw one more in there..."if you all want a first
round next year you have to take a lesson from luis and brenda and be less i
dont know aggressivly black" hmmm ill just let that comment sit on its own
without my witty commentary...but also comments like " your debaters have
told everyone to stfu, dont tell em they did good if they lost doubles,
because you all are better than a happy you cleared team"

one last thing...a lot more people congratulated me than congratulated deven
or dayvon, this is of course because i am old, and people see me as the main
coach...but still if you think what they did was good, tell them, dont seek
the old white point of entry into that conversation...some of you
did...others didnt...

thats it for now

> Which one of these would it be Andy?
> peace
> jackie
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at www.ndtceda.com
> http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
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