[eDebate] A Message to the Debate Community

scottelliott at grandecom.net scottelliott
Mon Apr 7 22:30:59 CDT 2008

If we were in a courtroom, I'd give you the 12+ exceptions to the hearsay rule.
But we are not, so it is irrelevant. At least two other persons have written
publicly that they believed some stuff was going on. So, you can vent on me all
ya want. But, on the other issues

The NDT bid system is a biased attempt to maintain the old guard. It is a shame
that a former CEDA National Champion is so enamoured with the NDT scam that he
cannot see what is and has been going on for years. Unless you compete at the
NDT death march tournaments, Wake, Harvard, etc., your wins are virtually
meaningless in the eyes of the NDT  first round bid committee. The bid
selection process gives an illusion of objectivity that masks a preference
toward certain tournaments that require a secret handshke just to find out
about. Hell, this academic year, I had to scream like a banshee just to find
out when and where these tournaments were being held. Unless you are part of
the group, you need not even know they exist.

I am not the one who made the claim that there was  delegimization of the CEDA
national champions, that was others who were at the NDT, including the coaches
and debaters from that school. So, you can take it up with them..

I spotted you the "we are not racist" argument, Josh. I think Karl Marx has a
lot to say about policy debate rather than Harpo and Groucho, or even Farrkhan.
It is what it is--certain elite groups work to preserve their elitism. No shame
needed. Some so desperately want to be part of the elite group, they will
defend the group to the death. Just an acknowledgement is enough for me. Groucho
Marx always appreciated irony and so do I. Its ok to admit you are being used as
a stepping stone with the promise that one day, if you try real hard, you too
will become part of the in group.

Gary Larson and tabbing has nothing to do with the bigger picture Josh. If I rig
the game a year or decade in advance, I can always bring in someone to
"objectively" determine the outcome of the national tournament. Example: of
course it will be an "objective" list of judges, etc. Professor Larson's
programs will see to that and you each get strikes. But, this conviniently
forgets an important note--each judge must be "qualified," under NDT rules
prior to them being allowed into the judging pool. The judging at the NDT gives
an illusion of objectivty when we know that the choices of possible judges is
pre-determined. Even the criteria for determing who can enter into districts
creates biases. I had a JV team that could have possible chance (I'd say a 1 in
100 shot) of qualifying via districts. They could not even attend because there
are rules stating that you have to have complete 18 rounds of varsity just to
get into the district tournament.

Your obsession with "bids" proves my point. It is not a question of who
"deserved" to get bids. The question is whether a bid system is worth a shit to
begin with and whether the entire bid system is just another way for certain
elite programs to advance their dominance. Nothing wrong with that per se, but
a little honesty about what the process is about would be refreshing.

You are right that a movement toward secession would not be prudent at this
time. But the benefits of a marketplace of ideas is that idiots like me get to
keep  telling their version of the truth until enough people come around. My
comments from over a decade about how the merger was a mistake were blown off.
Even those who advocated for it and were in charge of it now recognize the
tragedy that has resulted from it. So, while it may not make it past a short
term democratic vote, I will stick to a more democratic movement style for
change. Lets face it. Two Thirds of our former members have already voted with
their feet. NDT may not be as perfect and defensible as you think.


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