[eDebate] Knowing when NOT to debate

Steven D'Amico stevendamico
Tue Apr 8 13:20:48 CDT 2008

Dayvon. First off congrats. Heckuva Job.

Ede is right Duane.

Like you, I spent a while writing a post in response to Dayvon. The
difference between you and I, is I didn't hit send. After all, Dayvon's
feelings are valid and shouldn't be debated, but rather, understood and

Duane, you're right. High School kids are morons, but that doesn't negate
what Dayvon feels.

Dayvon, it makes me extremely sad your experiences in high school
discouraged you from interacting with the college debate community
socially. Whenever I am at D7 tournaments I would ask myself "Why is towson
always just hanging with themselves." I always saw towson hanging in a
classroom as a squad or off in a corner, etc during lunch. Honestly, I
probably thought "they just hate all other types of debate so they want to
stick themselves." Perhaps a typical white person response?

I guess now I know the real reason why. I just WISH I had know earlier. I
apologize for not realizing this when it mattered. I travel to debate
tournaments to have a good time with friends (and win :) ) While people
debate different styles, I wish there was something that could (or could
have been done) to make you feel more welcome socially.

The crappy part here is this: if folks disagree with your argument, does
that mean they are not accepting you socially? I understand, given your
experiences, why you might say yes. Hell you might be right. jI just wish
you had given a few more of us a chance to demonstrate the positive side of
the debate community.... even those of us that really really like T, the
politics da and the cap K.


On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Ede Warner <ewarner at louisville.edu> wrote:

>  Duane,
> 1) He said that there were many other experiences that validate his
> feelings; he chose not to share them all.
> 2) Don't you see that your attempts to debate/rationalize his feelings
> stem from your depression, not whether or not his feelings are valid;
> 3) Your attempts to "debate" his logic, only creates more alienation from
> those with a different set of experiences, feeling that your concerns Duane
> have more to do with us making claims that reinforce white personal
> comfort.  Is it possible for you to accept/concede/acknowledge that Dayvon's
> experiences are sufficient for him to draw his conclusions in the same ways
> that you do?  And if not, do you not realize that his hesitancy to
> post/participate and engage the predominately white debate community is
> because of what you just did, minimize his experiences by imposing your
> attempts at proving his logic irrational?
> 4) Again, that is institutional racism at work Duane.  The collective
> experiences of the majority don't have to be right or correct, but will be
> popular because they are shared by the majority.  Could Dayvon's
> experiences, if accepted not be an important starting point for you to
> consider what needs to be done to create productive change, if you could
> suspend your desire to critique his experiences?  Can you not see why your
> rhetorical move is not productive?  Or is your only goal to prove to Dayvon
> that you are right and he is wrong, whether or not the sum total of
> experiences, yours and his, supports such a claim?
> 5) What if everyone in the Great Debaters, had done what you just did?
> Would the room full of whites have learned anything from the black
> experience of lynching as it relates to civil disobedience?  But it was only
> a few whites that created legal lynching, right?
> Feeling depressed that the same stuff just happens over and over again...
> With love and frustration,
> Ede
> Ede Warner, Jr.
> Director of Debate Society/Associate Professor of Communication
> University of Louisville
> 308E Strickler Hall
> 502-852-3522
> ewarner at louisville.edu
> http://uofldebate.com/
> >>>
>   *From: * Duane Hyland <privethedge at yahoo.com> *To:* Dayvon Love <
> dplove05 at yahoo.com>, <edebate at ndtceda.com> *Date: * 4/8/2008 01:27 PM *Subject:
> * Re: [eDebate] Answering Adam's QuestionI have to ask this question -
> you're convinced that
> white people are racist because of the behavior of 16
> year olds in competition who happened to be white? I'm
> not sure if you coach or not at the high school level,
> i have for about 20 years - I've found that kids that
> age will beg, borrow, steal, cheat, lie, and just
> about stab their own sweet mother if they think its
> going to give them a leg up. What you've stated sounds
> more like misplaced arrogance than racism in the
> former, and example of what I typed above in the
> latter - unfortunate, sure - but not restricted to
> white people.
> It's a shame that you took these two incidents and
> decided that we white people are the devil!!:( I think
> they prove one of my favorite lines in Glory Road -
> "Knuckleheads come in all colors."
> I read your post..it's depressing.
> H.
>         "You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
> "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of
> the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that
> person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind? If the
> opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error
> for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the
> clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its
> collision with error." John S. Mill
>   Who said Dr. Who isn't Funny: "Rose: You Didn't Have to Kill him! Dalek:
> "Neither did we need him to live."
> Dalek to Cyberman: :"You are Superior to us in one respect." Cyberman:
> "What is that?" Dalek: "Dying!"
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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