[eDebate] Desperate Times?

Ede Warner ewarner
Fri Apr 11 21:22:34 CDT 2008

I am all about assisting, showing empathy, and understanding the serious problems you face regarding University budgets.  We are all given the climate.  But the question is simple:  why did your frustration and your typing compel you to link it to the educational goals of debate discussion as opposed to keeping them separate?  Can you not see why 1) your credibility is shot when you make the connection because it changes the tone of your meaning; 2) nothing else you wrote supporting change matters (like a backhanded compliment) because the choice to make the explicit comparison becomes the central claim; 3) now you just whine without defending it; 4) what makes it worse is that you can answer an email in five minutes when you want, but when I ask people to begin discussing the educational goals of policy debate...silence.  
Your not the victim:  you are not the sole victim about dwindling debate budgets; your not the sole victim regarding people being flamed on e-debate (can't stand the heat)...surely I've taken my share the last few days..., and most importantly you are not the reason for why this conversation started or what this conversation means and your personal issues (budget) don't justify attempting to divert this discussion...
One day, the people in this community will see and understand that all of these problems are interrelated, and the aritifical efforts to make them separate and distinct is 1) bad policy making; 2) antithetical to every thing we touch; 3) ultimately self-destructive.
No pity parties or apologies today.  Engage productively and with some integrity or go away...This is bigger than your feelings or mine, whether you see that or not.  


From: Josh <jbhdb8 at gmail.com>
To:"Ede Warner" <e0warn01 at gwise.louisville.edu>
CC:"edebate at ndtceda.com" <edebate at ndtceda.com>
Date: 4/11/2008 08:54 PM
Subject: Re: Desperate Times?
I have responded to this letter in a backchannel to Doctor Warner.
I will honestly say certain things in this letter hurt my feelings more than a little...Let me highlight a few:

EW: It almost seems as if you are just flailing, desperate for anything to move the current debate in a different direction.  That's morbidly sad, but even worse, do you not understand that it's exactly the quality of arguments made in these efforts to avoid the truth that keep making me more convinced debate needs something different?  The coach of a late out-round team at the NDT makes an argument lacking basic reasoning skills.
EW:You look like a sad, under-educated self-serving obstructionist that will do anything with and to evidence to justify and protect your world.  I'm sorry if this is harsh, but this is really frustrating to a productive community conversation.  Please stop.
Ok, before this progresses.  Allow me to mention a few things:
1. I wrote this letter because I am very very frustrated with my own problems with getting University support despite a high level of success.  It literally was not addressed to Doctor Warner or the "current trends in debate."  I literally wrote the letter this refers to in a moment of frustration over internal University issues.
2.  I literally said changes in method and topics etc would be good - I said that I think there is a LARGER crisis and NOT that the crisis was ONE issue.
Now, that said, I refuse to engage in this conversation any longer.  I feel I have been trying to be extremely professional in my conversations with Doctor Warner lately.  I feel that this was not a fair or collegial response.  I believed before, as I do know, that Doctor Warner wants the best for Debate, that he is one of the best and most innovative coaches in the activity, and that I must have caught him at a bad time (since the letter was not addressed to him or anything that he has written lately).
Anyway, hope all goes well,



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