[eDebate] Desperate Times?

Josh jbhdb8
Fri Apr 11 21:34:29 CDT 2008


Look,

This is literally absurd, I made an argument about what I perceive to be a
major problem and long term trend facing debate.....You went crazy....It
wasnt even directed at you...and you went way over the line.  I do believe
MONEY is the LARGEST thing hurting debates ability to increase diversity.
You dont...Thats no reason to turn into a total jerk.

No apologies = no discussion, dont question my integrity, insult me, and
make a bunch of ad hominems if you want to mutual respect.  I have been
excessively polite to you - you are treating me with zero respect - have a
nice night.

Josh

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Ede Warner <ewarner at louisville.edu> wrote:

>  I am all about assisting, showing empathy, and understanding the serious
> problems you face regarding University budgets.  We are all given the
> climate.  *But the question is simple:  why did your frustration and your
> typing compel you to link it to the educational goals of debate discussion
> as opposed to keeping them separate?*  Can you not see why 1) your
> credibility is shot when you make the connection because it changes the tone
> of your meaning; 2) nothing else you wrote supporting change matters (like a
> backhanded compliment) because the choice to make the explicit comparison
> becomes the central claim; 3) now you just whine without defending it; 4)
> what makes it worse is that you can answer an email in five minutes when you
> want, but when I ask people to begin discussing the educational goals of
> policy debate...silence.
>
> Your not the victim:  you are not the sole victim about dwindling debate
> budgets; your not the sole victim regarding people being flamed on e-debate
> (can't stand the heat)...surely I've taken my share the last few days...,
> and most importantly you are not the reason for why this conversation
> started or what this conversation means and your personal issues (budget)
> don't justify attempting to divert this discussion...
>
> One day, the people in this community will see and understand that all of
> these problems are interrelated, and the aritifical efforts to make them
> separate and distinct is 1) bad policy making; 2) antithetical to every
> thing we touch; 3) ultimately self-destructive.
>
> No pity parties or apologies today.  Engage productively and with some
> integrity or go away...This is bigger than your feelings or mine, whether
> you see that or not.
>
> >>>
>   *From: * Josh <jbhdb8 at gmail.com> *To:* "Ede Warner" <
> e0warn01 at gwise.louisville.edu> *CC:* "edebate at ndtceda.com" <
> edebate at ndtceda.com> *Date: * 4/11/2008 08:54 PM *Subject: * Re: Desperate
> Times?
>  I have responded to this letter in a backchannel to Doctor Warner.
>
> I will honestly say certain things in this letter hurt my feelings more
> than a little...Let me highlight a few:
>
> EW: *It almost seems as if you are just flailing, desperate* for anything
> to move the current debate in a different direction.  That's morbidly sad,
> but even worse, do you not understand that it's exactly the quality of
> arguments made in these efforts to avoid the truth that keep making me more
> convinced debate needs something different?  *The coach of a late
> out-round team at the NDT makes an argument lacking basic reasoning skills
> *.
>
> EW:* You look like a sad, under-educated self-serving obstructionist that
> will do anything with and to evidence to justify and protect your world.*
> I'm sorry if this is harsh, but this is really frustrating to a productive
> community conversation.  Please stop.
>
>
> ******************************************************************************************
>
> Ok, before this progresses.  Allow me to mention a few things:
>
> 1. I wrote this letter because I am very very frustrated with my own
> problems with getting University support despite a high level of success.
> It literally was not addressed to Doctor Warner or the "current trends in
> debate."  I literally wrote the letter this refers to in a moment of
> frustration over internal University issues.
>
> 2.  I literally said changes in method and topics etc would be good - I
> said that I think there is a LARGER crisis and NOT that the crisis was ONE
> issue.
>
>
> *******************************************************************************************
>
> Now, that said, I refuse to engage in this conversation any longer.  I
> feel I have been trying to be extremely professional in my conversations
> with Doctor Warner lately.  I feel that this was not a fair or collegial
> response.  I believed before, as I do know, that Doctor Warner wants the
> best for Debate, that he is one of the best and most innovative coaches in
> the activity, and that I must have caught him at a bad time (since the
> letter was not addressed to him or anything that he has written lately).
>
> Anyway, hope all goes well,
>
> Josh
>
> 2.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Ede
> >
>
>
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