[eDebate] Peace - Seriously

Josh jbhdb8
Sun Aug 3 23:52:53 CDT 2008


Hello,

I am decloaking both because like twenty people have asked me to and also
because I feel some friends are really involved in a mess here - I dont want
this to be about me at all...I just want to say a few things:

First, good people do bad things sometimes.  I have friends who are
homeless, friends who have done the worst drugs, friends who got in violent
altercations and hurt other people, people who have been hurt badly by other
people.  As some of you might know, I have a temper myself......I often
wonder if there are people in prison right now who made one terrible mistake
and every other thing they ever did was good....Its a hard world....people
make terrible choices.  What we should do sometimes is find it in ourselves
to care about all the people we encounter not just the perfect ones.  I mean
we should certainly not excuse the terrible things people do...but we also
have to consider that all of us have, at times, been less than our best
selves.  And that good people do bad things.  Lets also be honest NOBODY was
acting at their best in that room from what I saw.

Second, part of what I believe Eric was trying to say was that the personal
turn in debate has an odd ability to make people take things personally in
ways that defy propriety.  He wasnt saying that it was GOOD that things like
that happened he was saying it was a predictable outcome.  One thing we need
to ask is if we could predict that more things like this might be a
predictable outcome of the personal turn in debate.  Before poo pooing this
I would suggest that a) in the instance on tape Fort Hayes likely thought
that the choice was anonymous b) that they could very well REALLY respect
Shanara and just have thought in this instance she would not be the best
judge for that particular round and then BOOM the whole round becomes about
that personal private choice and the accusation might not have met the
actual reason...next thing you know the whole year is over...and on that
very argument.....People have gotten in fist fights for much dumber
reasons.

Third, while I think I get why Ede said what he said...I have always felt it
was great when I got struck....because the worst thing I could imagine was
being someones deciding judge at nationals, which they worked for sometimes
for four whole years, when they did not want me deciding that round.  I
totally get what Ede is saying too, not from his or Shanara's
perspectives....But I do get this.

Finally, I wanted to say something before you totally throw Bill Shanahan or
anyone else in this discussion to the wolves (Shanara is an awesome fierce
person and intellect, the Towson guys are awesome, Andy is one of my fave
people in the activity etc).  Very few people have EVER made me as mad as
Bill.....There are times when I was certain Bill and I were going to break
down the whole building we were arguing in.  We virtually agree on nothing
but baseball....He can be a total asshole (so can I obviously) and have
terrible moments.  But, as much as I hate to say it sometimes, debate is a
better place with him and the Towson guys and Shanara and Ede and everyone
else in it.

Should he have done what he did....Of course not....There are lots of things
I think Bill should not have done over the years.....He is a very rough and
tumble strong intellect from a tough neigborhood with a crazy temper....But
he also is a caring coach and a great Dad and cares about people if he wants
to admit it or not.  He will probably hate me again for saying any of
this...But try to remember debate coaches live a really odd life....the
stress is fantastic sometimes. I often think back in horror on some of my
post round altercations in my younger coaching life.....but I think we all
try to grow and get better.  None of us should be in the business of trying
to ruin other peoples lives or livelihoods.

On the traditionalists side we really need to try to "build some bridges"
with our performative/personal friends.......On the performative/personal
side maybe some people should realize that asking for a professional
response to deeply personal attacks or seeming attacks might be asking for
more than some people have.  Maybe I am wrong about this....I frequently am
wrong...but this business is hard enough for all of us without trying to
literally go after each other this way....At least I hope we can all try to
care enough about people despite themselves or ourselves to try to have some
peace?

Ok, back to silencio,

Josh






On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Adam Jackson <baltimoredebate at gmail.com>wrote:

> 1. I'm not your fucking "dear" or "sweetheart".
>
> 2. No one's making backhanded statements at anyone. I never said I had
> any problems with Chris or Avery, there were arguments in that debate
> that they decided to ignore and it illustrated the problems that we
> have in this debate community (did you even listen to Hester's RFD?)
>
> 3. You're not my parent, guardian, friend or acquaintance, so don't
> sit at your computer screen, commanding me to do anything. I am the
> only person who actually had the footage, and it was important that
> everyone else actually saw what went down so we can discuss it, rather
> than let rumors circle and allowing people to make shit up about what
> actually happened.
>
> 4. I am not "attacking" anyone, Bill, Chris and Avery decided to make
> those arguments and they defended their decision. The underlying
> problem is that we don't like it when we see that raw uncensored
> clusterfuckery that is our debate community, and that we would rather
> cloak it and ignore rather than discuss it.
>
> 5. Be an adult? What about Shanahan? Everyone discussing this footage
> seems to be ignoring his actions. He MOONED EVERYBODY. He should be
> the first on the list for the "Be an Adult about It" discussion. Don't
> try to talk down to me like I'm a first year novice debater who
> doesn't know what the fuck I'm talking about. You want to talk about
> face-to-face interactions, why don't you come to me and speak on it
> instead of ignoring the obvious.
> _______________________________________________
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> eDebate at www.ndtceda.com
> http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
>
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