[eDebate] If its war you want...

Andy Ellis andy.edebate
Wed Aug 6 14:44:38 CDT 2008

Then so shall it be...

I'm not going to engage you in a debate about deven, deven will handle
himself, but just like with mel gibson some people are actually listening to
you, and the words you say about the UDLs as you attack deven  have meaning,
but they also betray how detached you are from what is actualy going on,  i
won't simply  defer to you and watch you do the kind of damage you did  with
the plantation metaphor .

So you like to ask people questions about meaningful black participation let
me ask you a few

What are YOU doing to increase meaningful black participation in the
What are YOU doing to decrease meaningful black participation in the
What are YOU doing to increase meaningful black participation in the
What are YOU doing to increase meaningful black participation in the
education system?

we have data from baltimore to back up what we are doing, and people working
on things that are far bigger than this conversation, and debate as VIK says
is a means to an end. An end you profess to care about but seem to think
will only occur through better policy debates. It won't . Debate can help
and be part of a process, but better debates that speak to topical minority
issues will only help so much, though they no doubt play a part of the

also WHAT are YOU doing to increase black leadership in college debate? Have
you created new programs that are now headed by black folks? We are trying
and have asked for your help and advice, and invited you to attend our
college summer camp and our tournaments, but with one exception you do
nothing, so im gonna stop asking you and lead, and create opportunities for
those folks who may not fit your middle class standards of structure and

Heres another question, What are YOU doing to increase meaningful black
particpation in the middle class you seem to admire so much?

so if you are gonna wage war on deven and towson and the UDLS then i am
ready, you have speant to long attacking people who won't respond to you,
and have declared your intention to hurt a person and a movement that
actually exists in the real world and you simply won't get to just do that.
I'm not attached to a team, I'm not scared, and im not gonna defer to the
played notions of change you have propagated and i have internalized for the
last several years.

You don't have to respond now i wont, i will be busy trying to make sure we
have the money to create the kind of jobs you point out rightly are not
currently available. So flail about all you like, when i have done my work i
will answer you.

Andy Ellis
Managing Director
Youth Organizing Urban Revitalization Systems
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