[eDebate] No Justice, No Peace

Dylan Keenan dylan.keenan
Mon Aug 4 15:36:05 CDT 2008

This post displays a disturbing lack of numeracy. Likelihood cannot be less
than zero, at least according to any understanding of the concept I have
ever encountered in statistics or math.

More broadly I believe this reflects the preference in modern debate for
vague criticism divorced from material and more specifically scientific
understanding of the world.

Perhaps the truly important for discussion is "No Math, No Society, No


On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Ede Warner <ewarner at louisville.edu> wrote:

>    - Race issues, in particular black-white problems, have been the thorn
>    in American society since the nation's inception.  Ten years is a drop in
>    the bucket and not close to what I expect to spend on these issues.
>    - I have chosen to take my life experiences and search for solutions to
>    race problems that are address issues so much broader than that. The
>    possibility of finding solutions to a variety of problems, not just that of
>    race, is both exciting and challenging.
>    - Thanks for your realism, but it is usually clouded by some agenda.
>    It smells like you are trying to get rid of me.  I don't inherently believe
>    in segregation or assimilation as long term objectives.  I believe in
>    working through differences until we achieve true integration or some better
>    form of pluralism than we have, and while that requires some segregation and
>    assimilation to get there, it's not my long term plan.
>    - Your measuring sticks for your assessments of my influence and impact
>    on this community are narrow and ignore quite a bit.
>    - Given you spend most of your time speaking to me in insulting tones,
>    the likelihood of me trusting that you have my best interest at heart is
>    less than zero.
> >>>
>   *From: * <scottelliott at grandecom.net> *To:* Ede Warner <
> e0warn01 at gwise.louisville.edu> *CC:* <edebate at ndtceda.com> *Date: * 8/4/2008
> 02:48 PM *Subject: * Re: [eDebate]  No Justice, No Peace
> Ede,
> Articulate a clear line of argument and perhaps someone can respond.
> You give all these blandishments about the Civil Rights Movement, Pain,
> suffering and the agony of being Black in a white man's debate world. I am
> just
> pointing out thaat there are many within the Black movement who would
> conclude
> that your fight for inclusion is all wrong. I am saying that your appeals
> to
> "Justice", if in fact injustice does exist, will probably never be met, so
> why
> keep fighting for inclusion? There are other alternatives that could easily
> be
> explored if the same efforts to fight these racist (your charecterization)
> organizations and norms could be used to create an atmosphere of inclusion
> via
> the creation of a HBCU debate league, or a new form of policy debate that
> is
> not focused on winning the NDT.
> As far as separation from NDT, I posit the following: MPJ and strike cards
> are
> an offshoot of NDT imported to CEDA from the merger. Back in the day,
> 1980's-1990's you got a panel of three and you got stuck unless you could
> show
> some real overwhelming bias (that guy is dating one of the debaters, etc.).
> If
> we would have had some randomized judging panels  at CEDA Nats instead of
> and strikes-the whole Ft. Hays  Towson fiasco would have never taken place.
> Randomized judging would insure that the minority and women that do
> particpate
> in the judging get a shot at juding in out rounds. At
> worst, Ft. Hays would have had a judge in the back of the room who would
> normally vote for their arguments, but is probably more sympathetic to
> Towson's
> project. They would have then sucked it up and went for a 2-1 decision. Do
> you
> think the NDT will ever get rid of MPJ and strike cards? LOL
> Am I the only one that heard rumors and innuendo about how CEDA Nationals
> was
> not a true national championship-only the NDT matters. How more nigardly
> can
> people treat African-Americans generally, and Towson specifically. Is THIS
> what
> you want to be included in?
> I am indiciting your entire project Ede. I don't think inclusion is the
> solution. All of your attempts at inclusion are futile to the point of
> farce.
> Ask yourself this: "I have been fighting this Quixotic fight for almost ten
> years now. What have I accomplished?"
> "Could all of that effort have been directed toward a better purpose, such
> as
> creating a African-American or AfroCentric debate league at the collegiate
> level?"
> I think the answer is that you have not accomplished much, and frankly,
> CEDA and
> NDT has not done much of ANYTHING either--African Amerians
> participation overall is pretty much as low as it always has been within
> NDT. I can count the number of African American coaches in CEDA/NDT on one
> hand
> with a couple fingers missing. Other than the inclusion of a few rap songs,
> debate is just as incomprehensible to the average person (white or black)
> as it
> ever was. No increase in HBCU participation, or any other type of college
> with a
> majority African-American population has entered policy debate. ZERO, NADA,
> NOTHING. All we have right now are a few placings by minority students at
> the
> NDT and Towson winning CEDA Nats. Anamolous, dare I say it, token, wins do
> not
> make for a successful social movement for real change.
> Maybe instead of castigating me for pointing out the reality of the
> situation
> and offering a solution, you should seriously consider the alternative of
> creating "a debate association of one's own."
> I will volunteer to help draft your constitution and I will donate $200.00
> toward the filing for Non-Profit Organization status. Here's a name: The
> American American College Debate Assocation (AACDA).
> The match is lit. Let's burn a bridge.
> Scott
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