[eDebate] Wow. 7 African-American coaches. Victory!

Aaron Olney aaron.olney
Tue Aug 5 10:18:39 CDT 2008


Scott has no clue and will always make the arguments flow his way.  There is
no compromise on his part and compromise is what this community needs.  At
this point, just stop listening to him and eventually (hopefully) he will go
away.   People like him that are unwilling to compromise are the main
problem, but it's even scarier when they disguise their rhetoric as
"helpful" to the issue at large.

I'm sure he will have a clever way to "turn" my brief comments.

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 10:15 AM, <scottelliott at grandecom.net> wrote:

> Thank you for undermining the positions taken by Louisville and Towson.
> Apparently, there is no need to change debate styles and practices to
> conform
> to a Black Aesthetic. With proper funding and support, there are plenty of
> African-American debaters that can compete successfully. You arguments only
> refute the claims being made by college teams that there are exclusionary
> practices within college policy debate that are somehow inherently racist.
> I
> have always contended that they are not. I think it is lack of resources
> that
> prevents African Americans from competing. That is why I think the whole
> movement to try to change policy debate is a waste of time. More time
> should be
> spent woking on recruting and developing minority programs.
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting "Jillian A. Marty" <jmarty at comm.umass.edu>:
>
> > I really don't like to post on edebate. I find that these debates are
> > ridiculous, a major waste of time, and I find that people have way too
> much
> > time
> > on there hands so that when I post this comment by the time I wake up
> > tomorrow
> > there will be at least three responses to this email. I prefer to have
> these
> > discussions in person. However, since this is not the case,  I feel that
> I
> > must
> > respond to what you have just said.  For a person that states one must
> have
> > valid evidence, Scott your claims are unfounded! Students in the various
> UDLs
> > have success  because of the hard work and dedication they put into
> debate
> > just
> > like other high school students in the United States. It is not because
> they
> > are
> > separate from the "White Majority" that they are successful. Many of the
> UDLs
> > do
> > not solely serve minority students. There are several UDLs that have a
> large
> > number of students in the non-minority category and these students
> > participate
> > in both "traditional" and "performance" style of debate. In addition,
> some
> > UDLs
> > are so successful that they have "integrated" with the "White Majority"
> and
> > have
> > continued to kick ass in debate. This means that UDLs logically wouldn't
> be
> > able
> > to be the college model because we don't just serve minority students we
> > serve
> > students in urban areas. Now on to your statement about why not bring UDL
> to
> > HBCU. Let me break down UDL for you. It stands for urban debate league.
> No
> > where
> > in the acroyonm does it state the "black debate league". Further more to
> > assume
> > that all UDL debaters are black not only shows how little you know about
> UDLs
> > it
> > also shows how little you know about the demographics of an urban area.
> > Urban is not a synonym for minority it describes a dense populated
> metropolis
> > area, where people from all walks of life live. Second,  if you were to
> do a
> > little research, many many UDL students have beaten "TOC style debaters"
> in
> > "TOC
> > style of debate". I will not disclose the names of those students that
> have
> > done
> > so because I have not asked their permission to use their names in this
> > email.
> > But, I can tell you that one of those debates happened this year at one
> of
> > the
> > New York State Qualifiers, where several teams from the NYUDL beat TOC
> > qualifiers. In addition, there have been many successes at the NFL and
> CFL
> > levels where UDL utilizing TOC style debate have been in late elimination
> > rounds
> > at these tournaments.  Also, there have been several UDL alums that have
> made
> > it
> > to the NDT using "traditional debate". So you see Scott the UDLs do have
> > success
> > at "TOC style debate". Third, do all the UDL alums a favor and don't talk
> > about
> > us or our debate leagues. Don't talk about how we can't be "good" at "TOC
> > debate". Don't talk about how UDLs are an example of how minorities
> should
> > form
> > their own separate debate league. And finally don't talk about the
> success of
> > UDLs is soley based on financial support. You have no clue what you are
> > talking.
> > You don't know any of us and our stories.
> >
> > That is it for me. Hopefully I will not have to respond again, and please
> > know
> > that if you do respond I won't be responding thru the internet I will
> respond
> > when I see you--- at a tournament perhaps maybe at big Bronx, NY States,
> > Lexington or at Harvard?places where you can see our UDL students debate
> TOC
> > style.  Until then, just KEEP UDLS OUT YOUR MOUTH AND WE BE COOL.
> >
> > I wish you the best,
> > Jillian
> >
> > ***********************************
> > Jillian A. Marty
> > Department of Communication
> > University of Massachusetts, Amherst
> > E-32A Machmer Hall
> > Office Hours:M 11:15-12:15,
> > T& Th 11:45- 12:45
> >
> >
> > Quoting scottelliott at grandecom.net:
> >
> > > Wow Martin. There are 7 instead of 5 black coaches for an entire nation
> > (btw
> > > that was Ede's count I was going off of. Isn't it sad that you can
> > literally
> > > name off the top of your head every black policy debate coach in the
> > > country?).
> > >
> > > I guess you have won. Wow what a victory for a ten year project.
> > >
> > > Amazing, at this rate, in 20 years there will be ten African American
> > coaches
> > > by
> > > the year 2028.  Full integration of CEDA/NDT will have been achieved.
> > > Seriously,
> > > if all you are going to do is quiblle over 5 versus 7, I think you have
> > > already
> > > conceded the larger issues. (I noticed you dropped the whole source
> > citation
> > > of MLK issue pretty damn quick.)
> > >
> > > I am still, at a loss as to why my proposal is a non-starter for many
> of
> > you.
> > > Another individual has pointed out, quite correctly, that UDL's have
> been
> > > extremely successful. Why is that? In addition to a lot of dedication
> by a
> > > large number of dedicated individuals and financial support (economics
> > really
> > > is the key issue folks)--I posit that it is because UDL's ARE seperate,
> > that
> > > they are successful. If UDL were thrust into varsity, TOC style debate,
> > > students would bolt.
> > >
> > > WHY can't UDL's be a model for college debate too? Why not expand the
> UDL
> > > concept to HBCU's?
> > >
> > > Careful Ede and Martin, you are about to have a series of logical mines
> > blow
> > > up
> > > in your faces. You can be more poetic, but the Turth is still painfully
> > > obvious.
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com
> > > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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