[eDebate] todays offering

matt stannard stannardmatt
Tue Jul 15 08:23:03 CDT 2008

Big Nose George.  Damn, thanks DeLo...
Here's his skull and the shoes he became: http://www.outwestnewspaper.com/GRAPHICS/bigshoes.jpg
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:23:21 -0400> To: edebate at www.ndtceda.com> From: bdelo77 at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [eDebate] todays offering> > I think this discussion is most likely too late since the topic has > already been written. Without a workable resolution that includes > "local activism" as a mechanism for change it's difficult to debate this > out clearly. Local activism for agricultural support? Not all of us > live in green zones. > > 1. Global-local issue. You are asking a national organization with its > members to determine what is effective for local strategies? How would > D Heidt have any clue as to what I need to do to rally public support > for local Wyoming policy change? Your gatekeeper arguments about the > hegemonic nature of this organization seems to double turn with your > suggestion that we should have judges and debaters from vastly different > world situations determine what strategies are best for their local > communities. There is an inherent problem with a lack of shared > knowledge of the social situation of the Wyoming's, Fullerton's, > Berkeley's, ASU's , NYU's etc. > > Your program analogy also assumes that students are taught local > problems from agent's that are dissolved within their local situations. > The best teachers of your film class will know how to meet the needs of > their local students by having direct experience. This includes the use > of local research methods. You want me judging a round where I decide > the best strategies for constructing a local activism project that > includes spray painting as means for reaching a mass audience? I know > jack about the issue.> > I can only assume that your response will be that debate provides an > avenue where debaters can contribute experiences and information about > their localities so that the curriculum can have adequate ground to > evaluate a proposed action. Ha, this is where evidence and research is > introduced. I may not be an expert on the practices of political > activism in Cheyenne, Wyoming but I can confidently say that I am much > more of an expert on the issue than you are. 21 years of lived > experience and engagement with the "old-west" community provides me with > a lot more data on the subject than you're carrying in your (mental) box > . I can only assume that your analogy is supposed to be implemented in > debate, somehow, someway. The world that I envision will have every > debate team use their local resources, including experiences, to produce > and advocate some type of local activism . Research limits seems to > devastate your analogy. My teams will have to research activism > strategies for every policy debate location in the country? Really? > Each squad will be able to take advantage of interviews, film, and > evidence derived from local "organic intellectuals" that other squads > don't have access to. I shouldn't have to explain the limits of the > internet and other media. My team would be able to amass a massive > amount of material from those non-tek savy ranchers that your team would > have limited ability to respond to. Strategic teams would learn how to > manipulate this system to their advantage. If old Seth "Pinto" > Ellsworth stood up and offered a method for establishing a sweet organic > farming program for the 8,500 residents of Rawlins, Wyoming this guy is > going to wax the floor with you. CX would have to be extended well > beyond 3 minutes for you to even grasp the Rawlinian situation. I mean > Big Nose George is just the icing on the cake of this town. > http://www.legendsofamerica.com/WY-BigNose.html> George Parrot, also known as George Francis Warden, George Manuse, > George Curry, and Big Nose George, is infamous not only for being hanged > as an outlaw > <http://www.legendsofamerica.com/LA-OutlawsandLegends.html>, but also > for being the only man in American history who became a pair of shoes > after his death.> > Global-local is also devastating to your do it on the "cheap" argument. > Cheap as compared to what? Without shared knowledge of what resources > localities have to mobilize for local change, the judge or "teacher" > will most likely steer the students in the wrong direction. > > 2. Debate as it is currently practiced does not equate with your > "professional quality tek" vs. "non-professional tek" distinction. What > "professional" tek in debate are you referring to? Research? While a > great many debaters have gone on to engage with politics and the law, a > great many others have excelled in other areas. I have yet to realize > the futility of debate's ability to provide a lot of skill that > translate into pedagogical power. Pedagogical benefits of today's > debate have been flushed out by people far more articulate on the issue > than I. However, you're certainly not winning a 100% takeout between > national level policy and the ability for a debater to take the lessons > learned in their experiences in debate and apply them to local > activism. With that said, I find it highly unlikely that if a student > is trained in professional quality studio technology that they would not > be able to get media jobs at local venues. > > > > > Andy Ellis wrote:> > Some very cool organizations train high school students to use > > professional quality studio technology and techniques to produce > > broadcast quality media.Often times in areas where students wouldnt > > otherwise have these resources, programs discuss the necessity of > > bringing unheard youth voices into the mainstream. While very cool and > > definitly helpful for the students involved, because of the exclusive > > nature of being a mainstream media maker it is perhaps likely that 1 > > out of 25 students will be able to translate that skill into a career > > as a mainstream media maker. Perhaps 3 more of that 25 will get jobs > > in the industry but ultimatly not ones that allow them to exert > > control over the media as it effects the world. The other 22 will have > > a valuble experience but for the most part will not actualize the > > media making goal of the activity.> >> > Consider in the alternative a world where less money is spent on > > equipment and more students participate. Instead of aiming to make > > media that effects the mainstream, the focus is on using tools > > commonly avaialble to everybody, handicams and computers, and the > > colective power of the students to produce media for internet and > > local dvd distribution.While sharing a goal of bringing unheard youth > > voices into the world, the mainstream is less significant of a focus, > > not that its not a coordinate in the questions youth attempt to answer > > through media, but a more tangible goal of teaching folks the skills > > they need to use video to build support for an achievable local goal > > is thought to be a better training tool, for continued use of the > > skills to connect to real world change. If 25 students participated > > its likely that maybe 10 of them would have a job that utilized > > media,perhaps working with a community organization or a school, but > > probably likey that 20 of them would use the skills they had learned > > in work that they did toward some productive end tied to the mission > > of the training they had.> >> > Program A probably is less likely to engage in real world politics > > than program b.> > Program B is probably more likely to effect the mainstream media as a > > result of local success than program A is by a direct approach to the > > mainstream.> > Program B is more likely to teach skills that apply to day to day life > > Whereas Program A teaches skills that are useful in process(often when > > people from program a realize the futility of its mission and the > > anachronistic nature of its focus and go to program b) but very > > infrequently toward the stated goal of program a pedagogical design.> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > _______________________________________________> > eDebate mailing list> > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com> > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate> > _______________________________________________> eDebate mailing list> eDebate at www.ndtceda.com> http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
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