[eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners

Old Strega oldstrega
Sat Nov 1 18:44:57 CDT 2008

in response to hyland, some black scholars disagree with the mainstream version of the africanus epithet.    bakhufu, rogers and leroy vaughn cite lincoln's black features and illegitimate birth from an african man and a mother from an ethiopian tribe.      without a source indict of these black scholars or disputation of their findings on exhibit, i conclude and hoe dramatically failed to answer that lincoln was the first socially constructed black president.   obama is exploiting the mainstream version of history to perpertuate a fraud on the american public regarding his place in black history which amounts to narcissism and arrogance much greater than stroube.   you'd think that someone who attended the sermons of reverend jeremiah wright for decades would know the radical black version of history and wouldn't throw it under the bus:


Lincoln, the nation's 16th president, served between 1861 and 1865. Lincoln was said to have been the illegitimate son of an African man, according to Leroy's findings. Lincoln had very dark skin and coarse hair and his mother allegedly came from an Ethiopian tribe. His heritage fueled so much controversy that Lincoln was nicknamed "Abraham Africanus the First" by his opponents.

one of the cartoons of africanus outside the proper definition of a social construction can be viewed here:

> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:02:04 -0700
> From: privethedge at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners
> To: edebate at ndtceda.com; oldstrega at hotmail.com
> If there is one thing I hate, it's poorly interpreted history. Lincoln was called "Abraham Africanus" by copperheads and democrats during the 1864 election because of his issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation - not because he was an African-American. If you're going to pontificate about history, at least get the story right!
> And...Lincoln's wife, Mary Todd, was a slave owner through inheritance. In fact...long after Robert E. Lee had freed his slaves, the slaves on the Todd plantation in Kentucky were still in bondage.
> Now..go back to your rants.
> "You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
> "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind? If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by  its collision with error." John S. Mill
>  Who said Dr. Who isn't Funny: "Rose: You Didn't Have to Kill him! Dalek: "Neither did we need him to live."
> Dalek to Cyberman: :"You are Superior to us in one respect." Cyberman: "What is that?" Dalek: "Dying!"
> --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Old Strega  wrote:
> From: Old Strega 
> Subject: Re: [eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners
> To: edebate at ndtceda.com
> Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 10:11 PM
> hoe is using the cover of rationality and sane discourse to publicly lie about
> his own arguments.
> 1) hoe never said or implied all 5 previous black presidents were slave owners.
> the archives are putting words into josh's mouth.  he never made the
> generic disclaimer:
> http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/2008-October/076656.html
> "I know those early
> Presidents looked white...and they owned slaves....but they were really
> black...see,"
> lincoln, coolidge and harding are among the 5 black presidents and they never
> owned slaves.
> 2) but hoe did make a fabulous argument that the people of abraham africanus,
> the first's time had no idea he was black.     the opposition nicknamed him
> the african but none of the people read the newspapers or had any idea.   there
> were no pamphlets disclosing lincoln's ancestry.    it was a backroom
> nickname that was in no way used by the opposition to discredit abraham
> africanus.     that's his best argument he ever made in his life.   thanks,
> hoe i now believe that obama is the first socially constructed black president.
> you haven't been elusive on this point which so friendly of you considering
> how many names i've called you.     i thought because i called you those
> names you were justified in dropping that argument and sticking to "obama
> is the first socially constructed president" according to the technical
> rules of rational discourse without losing on the flow.
> 3) my anti-black agenda is real specific.   i'm glad you're not lying
> about this like your slave owner parry.     see, i'm against all black
> puppets under brzezinski and the predominantly white council on foreign
> relations who advocate warrantless wiretapping, the expansion of the criminal
> justice system, the subversion of article 2 of the constitution, war in
> afghanistan, and faith-based initiatives.       i'm against the manipulation
> of white guilt through the simulation of a "first black president" in
> the media as a mandate for the liberal version of the police state.  the prison
> guard union which endorses obama has more black men behind bars than any other
> population.     the assumption that obama, the jail union wetdream, is
> "pro-black" because he is black is a bad assumption.   perhaps, obama
> is "pro-black middle class" like dear oprah.   republican lite is
> hardly "pro-black".   that's simpleton.  i'm sorry.  i hope i
> didn't hurt your feelings by characterizing an extremely weak assumption as
> "simpleton".     you better quit this thread.   it's entirely
> based in ad-hominem attacks.
> ________________________________
>> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:02:17 -0400
>> From: jbhdb8 at gmail.com
>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners
>> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
>> Stroube,
>> I have tried to be nice, I have tried to be mean, I have tried to humor
> you....frankly I dont really care.
>> You are basically making the Nader argument for the last 8 years...Its
> tired...I would rather have a flawed Obama then have another Bush.  You might
> not appreciate degrees of difference but I do.
>> As for the rest - you dont care what I say or dont say, if I participate,
> anything I say will get "idiot Hoe" "moron" or worse....You
> just want a foil so you can keep congratulating yourself about how darn smart
> you are.
>> You have yet to get the argument after three explanations...I am not
> denying that the former Presidents were of color....you can keep trumpeting that
> all you want...I am NOT denying that its important to deconstruct that version
> of white history...I am NOT saying that they were never slurred as "of
> color."
>> Now here are the arguments...I can go reallllllllllly slow just to make
> sure you get it this time:
>> 1. Most people who voted for them thought they were white
>> 2. You are using this to further an anti-Black agenda which is jackassery
>> 3. You are a gasbag, give nobody respect, and could care less what anyone
> says
>> Have a nice day, if I stop responding its not because I dont think the
> discussion COULD be productive with a rational human being...Its because your
> narcissism is unbeliveable,
>> Josh
>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Old Strega  wrote:
>> hoe is leaving the conversation because his argument is awful.
>> conceding that obama is the sixth black president, he goes for obama being
> the first socially constructed black president.
>> "abraham lincoln was called Abraham Africanus, the First by his
> opponents."
>> this argument has been made five times and hoe can't seem to show how
> this is not a social construction of a black president.
>> hoe wants all five of the previous black presidents to have been slave
> owners socially constructed as white but he can't muster the complete
> argument to defend that view.
>> the only argument hoe has is that the school system and the television
> have socially constructed (rewritten history) the 5 previous black presidents as
> white.    hoe has believed that history his whole life and this conviction is so
> strong that he can't hear the historical evidence which denies obama's
> presidential legacy as the first black president.
>> ________________________________
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