[eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics

Josh jbhdb8
Fri Oct 24 01:13:06 CDT 2008


Ok, so the point you are trying to persuade us of, is....drum roll
please.....

Don't vote


Ok, got it,

Josh

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Old Strega <oldstrega at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> i'm not voting for mccain.
>
> i simply called for mccain campaign and other right wing advocates to
> introduce obama's birth certificate into the national discussion.   the
> blackout is hideous.
>
> i'm not voting.   the presidential candidates are nearly identical except
> abortion.  the neoconservatives have captured both parties.  obama is
> republican lite supporting WAR in afghanistan, TAX CUTS for the middle class
> and RELIGION via faith based iniatives.
>
> the democrats haven't truly won an election in 28 years given ross perot
> handed clinton his victory.    so the democrats decided to copy the three
> pillars of neoconservative philososphy with a half-black candidate and bring
> the anti-clinton social movements of the late 90's back into the fold of
> mainstream politics.
>
> sorry but faith based iniatitives are a gross continuation of bush and FISA
> makes obama a joke.    if you "believe" in obama it doesn't matter how much
> he votes for bush surveillance or copies his neocon pillars, because obama =
> god and there's no need to question all of the similarities to bush.
>
> that's some of what i mean by a "liberal version of the orwellian
> nightmare".   obama is an opportunist who knows the country is ready to
> switch parties but at the same time he's ready to capitalize on enhanced
> presidential powers of the previous administration, i.e. the vote for FISA.
>
> 8 years ago, i predicted that George W. Bush would reach the lowest
> approval ratings in history beating Richard Nixon.    i was proven right
> over time even though the vast majority of edebaters defended bush and
> doubted bush would beat nixon for worst approval ratings.   i said W = WORST
> president ever.  but i get no credit from amnesiacs who just want to run
> tournaments.    in the tradition of mort sahl, i will attack all
> presidential candidates.     obama is not the answer to bush.    the birth
> certificate, the FISA vote, and faith-based iniatitives are all signs that
> we are on the brink of an even more sinister, liberal version of the
> orwellian nightmare because moveon.org and the remnants of the
> anti-clintonistas have been absorbed into the mainstream of party politics.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 01:17:16 -0400
> > From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
> > To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> > CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
> > Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
> >
> > You posted a back-channel. Good job.
> >
> > Are you really willing to vote for McCain on "Israeli Insider says
> > Obama's birth certificate is bad," "Obama favors faith based
> > initiatives," and "Obama voted for the FISA compromise?"
> >
> > Faith-based bad isn't offense -- You posted a link claiming both McCain
> > & Obama support them.
> >
> > As for FISA, where is your proof that McCain will reverse Obama's vote?
> >
> > Oh...Martin's lawsuit? He's the guy who thought Obama went to Hawaii to
> > clear up his birth certificate issue. Now his website claims his father
> > is the "communist" Frank Marshall Davis.
> >
> >
> > ps -- Factcheck *is* a third party organization with absolutely no ties
> > to Obama. Annenberg funded projects are about as connected as federally
> > funded elections.
> >
> > Old Strega wrote:
> >> off one.
> >>
> >> to prove natural born citizenship, you need a fact producing entity
> further removed than a "separate organization" funded by the SAME foundation
> that obama used to work for.    you're the one that cited "conflict of
> interest" as a problem with insraelinside and now you're splitting hairs.
> the anneberg foundation funded the factcheck report that "authenticated"
> obama's birth certificate.  obama worked for a separate division of the
> anneberg foundation.
> >>
> >> you'd think that the sole report on which the case for obama's natural
> born citizenship rests could be verified by a third party completely removed
> from any affiliation with obama's past.
> >>
> >> how come no THIRD PARTY organization completely removed from obama has
> verified obama's hawaiian birth certificate?
> >>
> >> looks like typical obama incest to me.
> >>
> >> off two.  the first link you provided was to the AP INDONESIAN SCHOOL
> RECORD which does list obama's religion as ISLAM.    now, you provide
> another link about wool in sheep's clothing.   great,  you tricked me.
> nice switch.  i haven't read every israelinsider article.
> >>
> >> i don't care if obama is muslim or a stupid christian who "opposes 8
> more years of bush" but wants to keep the faith baised initiatives.  yeah,
> lacy, faith based iniatives were the only good part of the bush
> administration that we need to keep except more stupid abstinence programs
> because sex is bad.
> >>
> >> and by the way, that one sheep's clothing article doesn't exactly answer
> all of the detailed arguments that destroy the fact check analysis.
> >>
> >>
> http://pewresearch.org/pubs/971/both-mccain-and-obama-favor-expanding-faith-based-initiatives
> >>
> >> In July 2008, Sen. Obama announced his plan to establish a new,
> "reinvigorated" President's Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood
> Partnerships. "The new name will reflect a new commitment," Obama said.
> "This Council will not just be another name on the White House organization
> chart -- it will be a critical part of my administration." What exactly is
> his administration likely to do to foster government partnerships with
> faith-based organizations?
> >>
> >> bush is bad except theocratic EVANGELICAL FAITH-BASED INIATITIVES WHICH
> FISA CAGLIOSTRO OBAMA WANTS TO KEEP...great, you've moved past the ad-homs
> but where's you're defense of FISA.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >>
> >>> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:22:25 -0400
> >>>
> >> y> From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
> >>
> >>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 1. Annenberg & Obama: If you had some research, you'd realize this
> >>> argument is silly.
> >>>
> >>> Obama did not work for the board of Factcheck.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, Annenberg funds both the Chicago Annenberg Challenge & Factcheck.
> >>>
> >>> Those are separate organizations.
> >>>
> >>> How Obama's employment on the board of a separate organization creates
> a
> >>> conflict of interest is beyond me.
> >>>
> >>> Plus, the head of Annenberg backs McCain, so if anything they have an
> >>> opposite bias.
> >>>
> http://almoderate.com/2008/10/13/mccains-own-ties-to-annenberg-and-william-ayers/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2. "Obama is a Muslim."
> >>>
> >>> The Israeli Insider seems very interested in proving that Obama is &
> was
> >>> a Muslim.
> >>>
> >>> (I don't know why this is a indictment of Obama, but they seem to think
> >>> it is.)
> >>>
> >>> "Is Barack Obama a Muslim wolf in Christian wool?"
> >>> http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm
> >>> "the legacy of dissimulation about his long-concealed identity is about
> >>> to come crashing down around the ears of Barack Hussein Obama,"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Old Strega wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> basically, lacy sucks @ debate.
> >>>>
> >>>> still no defense of the many problems with fact check "authentication"
> already mentioned.
> >>>>
> >>>> the website link to "israelinsider thinks obama is a muslim" merely is
> an article citing the AP photo of his indonesian school record where he was
> registered in school as a muslim.   that's THE AP INDONESIAN SCHOOL RECORD
> that you're referring to.    you can believe he's a muslim today or not from
> that AP SCHOOL RECORD.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns06D
> >>>>
> >>>> 21 months ago: This registration document, made available on Jan. 24,
> 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the
> registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro into the Catholic
> school made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro. The document lists Barry
> Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen, born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, and
> shows his Muslim step-father listed the boy's religion as Islam.(AP Photo/
> Tatan Syuflana)
> >>>>
> >>>> don't go all in on your stupid muslim indict of the israeli insider
> destruction of the fact check analysis.    IT'S A FACT, MORON.   OBAMA'S
> FATHER LISTED ISLAM FOR OBAMA'S RELIGION ON THE SCHOOL RECORD PHOTOGRAPHED
> BY THE AP WIRE.    i think this is what debater's call a "TURN".    lacy is
> trying to indict the integrity of a website who is not so mesmerized by
> obama that they feel in their hearts of belief that even mentioning the AP
> photo is a form of disloyalty to the new savior of the american left.
> citing the AP photo and not ignoring it bolsters the perception of the
> newspaper israeli-insider.     lacy never even heard of the AP photo because
> he's high in obamaland.
> >>>>
> >>>> what are you an anti-semite?  trying to attack a jewish newspaper with
> bogus allegations that israelinsider extrapolated from the AP PHOTO SHOWING
> ISLAM FOR BARACK'S RELIGION that barack is still a muslim.     please, show
> that quote or go back to your little league ad-homs.
> >>>>
> >>>> on your second point, not so good flow boy, oohhh --- israelinsider
> insinuates that that factcheck had a conflict of interest with the BARACK
> FISA CAGLIOSTRO.   well, when they state the conflict of interest in plain
> english, you have to refute that statement to make an argument unless you're
> a novice who doesn't even know what an argument is:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> http://israelinsider.ning.com/channels/page/show?id=2018399%3APage%3A430
> >>>>
> >>>> FactCheck itself, as a project primarily funded by the Annenberg
> Foundation, hardly fits the bill of being a disinterested party, especially
> given Obama's four year stint as founding chair of the Chicago Annenberg
> Challenge, currently being investigated due to its massive withholding of
> papers which document the catestrophic failure of the project, including
> public funds wasted under Obama's leadership, and his relations in that
> project with former Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers.
> >>>>
> >>>> see, dipshit, obama worked for the foundation that confirmed his birth
> certificate.   that's what debaters who know what an argument is call a
> CONFLICT OF INTEREST.   to point that out makes israelinsider a really bad
> source.    ooohhh -- keep it up, you're making the mccain campaign look like
> a bunch of right wing wackos...good job debate boy...
> >>>>
> >>>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:02:54 -0400
> >>>>> From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
> >>>>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> >>>>> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You really have nothing better than the Israeli Insider? No wonder
> >>>>> McCain is smart enough not to make this argument.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Israeli Insider, while arguing that a "bad camera timestamp"
> >>>>> invalidates Obama's birth certificate, also believes Obama is a
> Muslim:
> >>>>>
> http://israelinsider.ning.com/channels/page/show?id=2018399%3APage%3A430
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They also think that Factcheck's Annenberg funding somehow creates a
> >>>>> conflict of interest:
> >>>>> http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13075.htm (Uh...yeah.
> >>>>> Don't go all in on that one.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Old Strega wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> maybe somebody will believe me like you believe fact check.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> let's try a different quote from the article that made you switch
> from arguing in favor of obama's birth certificate to ad hominem.   i
> thought you were capable of defending of arguments:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13075.htm
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The Annenberg Political Factcheck website has published photographs
> and an analysis of what it says is the "original birth certificate" of
> Barack Hussein Obama II. While the physical document depicted in the photos
> resemble the document image previously scanned and published by the Daily
> Kos website and Obama's own "Fight the Smears" site in June, FactCheck's
> case for authenticity and its claims to objectivity are undermined by a
> litany of process flaws, conflicts of interest and factual inconsistencies
> that raise doubts about its motives and methods of those of the Obama
> campaign....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Factcheck.org posted 9 photographs of what it claimed were different
> aspects of Obama's "Certificate of Live Birth", all in less than optimal and
> idiosyncratic lighting conditions. All of them were taken over a less than
> seven minute period on March 12, 2008 from 10:40:18 to 10:47:02 at night.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No wonder FactCheck sufficed left it a vague "spend some time" when
> the duration of the entire photography session took 6 minutes and 44
> seconds. Talk about: "Wham, bam, thank you, Obama!" Does that sound like a
> serious and thorough examination to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FactCheck will need to explain these hard chronological facts, which
> can be verified from the published photos by anyone with an EXIF reading
> tool, publically available on the net and as part of graphics software.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the embedded graphical information is correct, it means that
> FactCheck is lying about doing the photo session "recently" and may be lying
> about much more, since it would be implausible that "FactCheck" was even
> checking facts about the birth certificate in March 2008.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Factcheck may try to argue that the photographer "forgot" to set the
> correct time. But that would further illuminate the shoddy level of
> professionalism in disregarding the need for exact documentation of the
> date, a carelessness echoed in the introductory remarks of its article
> ("recently" is not a fact, especially when it is not clearly associated with
> the location of the photo shoot ? where the documents "reside" is hardly the
> same thing). If so, FactCheck would also need to show some other published
> photos published with the same camera that show an identical offset between
> the camera's time and the real time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Exactly for such reasons -- the lack of professionalism, exactitude
> and transparency concerning the provenance of this paper and the
> circumstances of the photographic session -- the reasonable demand from the
> skeptics -- who were initially made suspicious by the fact that the
> purported certificate image was published first (initially in relatively low
> resolution and only later in high resolution) in the far-left partisan Daily
> Kos blog -- has always been that the paper certificate must be subjected to
> the scrutiny of objective media or document forensics specialists, and
> mainstream journalists who can ask the hard question not just about this
> document image or that document image but examine it for themselves and
> query Obama himself about the many lingering mysteries and evasions in this
> whole affair.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It is striking, too, that Newsweek reprints the FactCheck report
> under the organizational byline without the minimal scrutiny that one would
> expect from a serious news magazine. In effect it is an advertorial serving
> the interests of the Obama campaign, not an objective piece of journalism.
> Indeed, at the end there is a credit: "Republished with permission from
> factcheck.org."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:15:14 -0400
> >>>>>>> From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
> >>>>>>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> >>>>>>> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Keep trying. Someone is bound to believe you.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Old Strega wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> you try to debate.  lose the debate.   now, losing proves your
> point.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> that's awesome.    those who take seriously obama's birth
> certificate and don't BELIEVE in the fact check report as ultimate truth
> make the mccain campaign look stupid.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> why don't you just keep typing irrelevant responses now you don't
> have a defense of the fact check report, you yourself, presented as if it
> were ultimate truth?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> you keep making the obama believers look like bad debaters.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> if you type the last word, you win even though backed out of your
> defense of fact check like a novice.
> >>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:58:46 -0400
> >>>>>>>>> From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
> >>>>>>>>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> >>>>>>>>> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Group it: You're proving my point.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Old Strega wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> when you can't keep up with the line by line, resort to sarcasm
> and group think tactics.    you sound like irving kristol.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> lacy tried to present the "be all and end all" of the obama
> birth certificate controversy.   the fact check report.    lacy was trying
> to keep up with the debate and answer line by line and then he ran into the
> second line critique of that report and he grew suddenly silent and start
> characterizing his opponent as "crazy".    this is a predictable strategy of
> the coming obama administration.  there will be those who believe in obama,
> the right-minded, and those who question obama, the wing nuts.  already
> anti-obama websites like the larry sinclair site are being shut down
> periodically by pro-obama hack squads.    believe is a scary campaign slogan
> word.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> belief supercedes argument for people like lacy as is obvious
> from his backtracking insults.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> the question is why couldn't lacy or any edebater so far keep up
> with the line by line on the obama birth certificate controversy as it is
> impacted by berg vs. obama?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> we know that the obama website has a copy of an alleged
> "authentic" birth certificate on its website but why doesn't the obama
> website have a defense of his motion to dismiss in berg vs. obama in lieu of
> submitting that birth certificate?   why is the obama website dodging the
> berg case?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> why isn't the mainstream media asking FREE PASS OBAMA about the
> berg vs. obama and the reasoning behind the motion to dismiss?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> when a candidate is given a FREE PASS on a birth certificate
> forgery that his followers believe to be true that is bad news and opens the
> door to a liberal version of the orwellian nightmare just as frightening as
> the coup attempted by the bush administration.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> When your life is on the go?take your life with you.
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> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> When your life is on the go?take your life with you.
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> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
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> >>>>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> When your life is on the go?take your life with you.
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
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