[eDebate] josh hoe on "not voting"

Old Strega oldstrega
Fri Oct 24 08:56:09 CDT 2008


THINK.   you have been using your "wisdom" about me and what goes good on edebate to skirt the issue.     being a pop psychologist myself, i think actually, in the closet, you want to participate but you're afraid of where your answers or non-answers to questions not allowed in the mainstream media might lead you.

and by the way, the edebate sheep might think i'm crazy but the berg vs. obama website that www.obamacrimes.com has got 51 million hits.    edebate is too mainstream, conservative political culture to even consider berg vs. obama worthy news.   no wonder they're buying the democrats replication of the neocon 3 pillars: WAR in afghanistan, TAX CUTS for the middle class, and RELIGION through faith based initiatives and abstinence.    they want 8 more years of a new, half black bush savior.  

is it not a problem, mr. debate social hygeine, that the anneburg foundation which obama worked for is behind the "authentication" of his birth certificate and like magic the whole mass media and BELIEVERS like you BELIEVE fact check of the anneburg foundation?

why do you believe fact check that obama was born in hawaii and not his paternal grandmother and two half-siblings that he was born in kenya?

why wouldn't obama have a true third party verify his birth certificate?   seems bit shady like rezko and all the connections to the chicago political racket.

does this not lend at least a fraction of credence to the various analyses that the birth certificate is a forgery?

if you support obama and are going to vote for him, then i encourage you to push his campaign to have his birth certificate verified by multiple third party FORENSIC EXPERTS just like a person with cancer would get multiple medical evaluations before proceeding with chemotherapy.

if you just want to believe and call those who question "crazy" and leverage the debate culture stereotypes to dodge the issue, go ahead.


________________________________
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 02:13:06 -0400
> From: jbhdb8 at gmail.com
> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
> CC: lacyjp at wfu.edu; edebate at ndtceda.com
> 
> Ok, so the point you are trying to persuade us of, is....drum roll please.....
> 
> Don't vote
> 
> 
> Ok, got it,
> 
> Josh
> 
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:37 AM, Old Strega  wrote:
> 
> i'm not voting for mccain.
> 
> i simply called for mccain campaign and other right wing advocates to introduce obama's birth certificate into the national discussion.   the blackout is hideous.
> 
> i'm not voting.   the presidential candidates are nearly identical except abortion.  the neoconservatives have captured both parties.  obama is republican lite supporting WAR in afghanistan, TAX CUTS for the middle class and RELIGION via faith based iniatives.
> 
> the democrats haven't truly won an election in 28 years given ross perot handed clinton his victory.    so the democrats decided to copy the three pillars of neoconservative philososphy with a half-black candidate and bring the anti-clinton social movements of the late 90's back into the fold of mainstream politics.
> 
> sorry but faith based iniatitives are a gross continuation of bush and FISA makes obama a joke.    if you "believe" in obama it doesn't matter how much he votes for bush surveillance or copies his neocon pillars, because obama = god and there's no need to question all of the similarities to bush.
> 
> that's some of what i mean by a "liberal version of the orwellian nightmare".   obama is an opportunist who knows the country is ready to switch parties but at the same time he's ready to capitalize on enhanced presidential powers of the previous administration, i.e. the vote for FISA.
> 
> 8 years ago, i predicted that George W. Bush would reach the lowest approval ratings in history beating Richard Nixon.    i was proven right over time even though the vast majority of edebaters defended bush and doubted bush would beat nixon for worst approval ratings.   i said W = WORST president ever.  but i get no credit from amnesiacs who just want to run tournaments.    in the tradition of mort sahl, i will attack all presidential candidates.     obama is not the answer to bush.    the birth certificate, the FISA vote, and faith-based iniatitives are all signs that we are on the brink of an even more sinister, liberal version of the orwellian nightmare because moveon.org and the remnants of the anti-clintonistas have been absorbed into the mainstream of party politics.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 01:17:16 -0400
>> From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
>> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
>>
>> You posted a back-channel. Good job.
>>
>> Are you really willing to vote for McCain on "Israeli Insider says
>> Obama's birth certificate is bad," "Obama favors faith based
>> initiatives," and "Obama voted for the FISA compromise?"
>>
>> Faith-based bad isn't offense -- You posted a link claiming both McCain
>> & Obama support them.
>>
>> As for FISA, where is your proof that McCain will reverse Obama's vote?
>>
>> Oh...Martin's lawsuit? He's the guy who thought Obama went to Hawaii to
>> clear up his birth certificate issue. Now his website claims his father
>> is the "communist" Frank Marshall Davis.
>>
>>
>> ps -- Factcheck *is* a third party organization with absolutely no ties
>> to Obama. Annenberg funded projects are about as connected as federally
>> funded elections.
>>
>> Old Strega wrote:
>>> off one.
>>>
>>> to prove natural born citizenship, you need a fact producing entity further removed than a "separate organization" funded by the SAME foundation that obama used to work for.    you're the one that cited "conflict of interest" as a problem with insraelinside and now you're splitting hairs.   the anneberg foundation funded the factcheck report that "authenticated" obama's birth certificate.  obama worked for a separate division of the anneberg foundation.
>>>
>>> you'd think that the sole report on which the case for obama's natural born citizenship rests could be verified by a third party completely removed from any affiliation with obama's past.
>>>
>>> how come no THIRD PARTY organization completely removed from obama has verified obama's hawaiian birth certificate?
>>>
>>> looks like typical obama incest to me.
>>>
>>> off two.  the first link you provided was to the AP INDONESIAN SCHOOL RECORD which does list obama's religion as ISLAM.    now, you provide another link about wool in sheep's clothing.   great,  you tricked me.   nice switch.  i haven't read every israelinsider article.
>>>
>>> i don't care if obama is muslim or a stupid christian who "opposes 8 more years of bush" but wants to keep the faith baised initiatives.  yeah, lacy, faith based iniatives were the only good part of the bush administration that we need to keep except more stupid abstinence programs because sex is bad.
>>>
>>> and by the way, that one sheep's clothing article doesn't exactly answer all of the detailed arguments that destroy the fact check analysis.
>>>
>>> http://pewresearch.org/pubs/971/both-mccain-and-obama-favor-expanding-faith-based-initiatives
>>>
>>> In July 2008, Sen. Obama announced his plan to establish a new, "reinvigorated" President's Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. "The new name will reflect a new commitment," Obama said. "This Council will not just be another name on the White House organization chart -- it will be a critical part of my administration." What exactly is his administration likely to do to foster government partnerships with faith-based organizations?
>>>
>>> bush is bad except theocratic EVANGELICAL FAITH-BASED INIATITIVES WHICH FISA CAGLIOSTRO OBAMA WANTS TO KEEP...great, you've moved past the ad-homs but where's you're defense of FISA.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>
>>>> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:22:25 -0400
>>>>
>>> y> From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
>>>
>>>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Annenberg & Obama: If you had some research, you'd realize this
>>>> argument is silly.
>>>>
>>>> Obama did not work for the board of Factcheck.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Annenberg funds both the Chicago Annenberg Challenge & Factcheck.
>>>>
>>>> Those are separate organizations.
>>>>
>>>> How Obama's employment on the board of a separate organization creates a
>>>> conflict of interest is beyond me.
>>>>
>>>> Plus, the head of Annenberg backs McCain, so if anything they have an
>>>> opposite bias.
>>>> http://almoderate.com/2008/10/13/mccains-own-ties-to-annenberg-and-william-ayers/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. "Obama is a Muslim."
>>>>
>>>> The Israeli Insider seems very interested in proving that Obama is & was
>>>> a Muslim.
>>>>
>>>> (I don't know why this is a indictment of Obama, but they seem to think
>>>> it is.)
>>>>
>>>> "Is Barack Obama a Muslim wolf in Christian wool?"
>>>> http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm
>>>> "the legacy of dissimulation about his long-concealed identity is about
>>>> to come crashing down around the ears of Barack Hussein Obama,"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Old Strega wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> basically, lacy sucks @ debate.
>>>>>
>>>>> still no defense of the many problems with fact check "authentication" already mentioned.
>>>>>
>>>>> the website link to "israelinsider thinks obama is a muslim" merely is an article citing the AP photo of his indonesian school record where he was registered in school as a muslim.   that's THE AP INDONESIAN SCHOOL RECORD that you're referring to.    you can believe he's a muslim today or not from that AP SCHOOL RECORD.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns06D
>>>>>
>>>>> 21 months ago: This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro into the Catholic school made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro. The document lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen, born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, and shows his Muslim step-father listed the boy's religion as Islam.(AP Photo/ Tatan Syuflana)
>>>>>
>>>>> don't go all in on your stupid muslim indict of the israeli insider destruction of the fact check analysis.    IT'S A FACT, MORON.   OBAMA'S FATHER LISTED ISLAM FOR OBAMA'S RELIGION ON THE SCHOOL RECORD PHOTOGRAPHED BY THE AP WIRE.    i think this is what debater's call a "TURN".    lacy is trying to indict the integrity of a website who is not so mesmerized by obama that they feel in their hearts of belief that even mentioning the AP photo is a form of disloyalty to the new savior of the american left.   citing the AP photo and not ignoring it bolsters the perception of the newspaper israeli-insider.     lacy never even heard of the AP photo because he's high in obamaland.
>>>>>
>>>>> what are you an anti-semite?  trying to attack a jewish newspaper with bogus allegations that israelinsider extrapolated from the AP PHOTO SHOWING ISLAM FOR BARACK'S RELIGION that barack is still a muslim.     please, show that quote or go back to your little league ad-homs.
>>>>>
>>>>> on your second point, not so good flow boy, oohhh --- israelinsider insinuates that that factcheck had a conflict of interest with the BARACK FISA CAGLIOSTRO.   well, when they state the conflict of interest in plain english, you have to refute that statement to make an argument unless you're a novice who doesn't even know what an argument is:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://israelinsider.ning.com/channels/page/show?id=2018399%3APage%3A430
>>>>>
>>>>> FactCheck itself, as a project primarily funded by the Annenberg Foundation, hardly fits the bill of being a disinterested party, especially given Obama's four year stint as founding chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, currently being investigated due to its massive withholding of papers which document the catestrophic failure of the project, including public funds wasted under Obama's leadership, and his relations in that project with former Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers.
>>>>>
>>>>> see, dipshit, obama worked for the foundation that confirmed his birth certificate.   that's what debaters who know what an argument is call a CONFLICT OF INTEREST.   to point that out makes israelinsider a really bad source.    ooohhh -- keep it up, you're making the mccain campaign look like a bunch of right wing wackos...good job debate boy...
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:02:54 -0400
>>>>>> From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
>>>>>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
>>>>>> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You really have nothing better than the Israeli Insider? No wonder
>>>>>> McCain is smart enough not to make this argument.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Israeli Insider, while arguing that a "bad camera timestamp"
>>>>>> invalidates Obama's birth certificate, also believes Obama is a Muslim:
>>>>>> http://israelinsider.ning.com/channels/page/show?id=2018399%3APage%3A430
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They also think that Factcheck's Annenberg funding somehow creates a
>>>>>> conflict of interest:
>>>>>> http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13075.htm (Uh...yeah.
>>>>>> Don't go all in on that one.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Old Strega wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> maybe somebody will believe me like you believe fact check.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> let's try a different quote from the article that made you switch from arguing in favor of obama's birth certificate to ad hominem.   i thought you were capable of defending of arguments:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13075.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Annenberg Political Factcheck website has published photographs and an analysis of what it says is the "original birth certificate" of Barack Hussein Obama II. While the physical document depicted in the photos resemble the document image previously scanned and published by the Daily Kos website and Obama's own "Fight the Smears" site in June, FactCheck's case for authenticity and its claims to objectivity are undermined by a litany of process flaws, conflicts of interest and factual inconsistencies that raise doubts about its motives and methods of those of the Obama campaign....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Factcheck.org posted 9 photographs of what it claimed were different aspects of Obama's "Certificate of Live Birth", all in less than optimal and idiosyncratic lighting conditions. All of them were taken over a less than seven minute period on March 12, 2008 from 10:40:18 to 10:47:02 at night.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No wonder FactCheck sufficed left it a vague "spend some time" when the duration of the entire photography session took 6 minutes and 44 seconds. Talk about: "Wham, bam, thank you, Obama!" Does that sound like a serious and thorough examination to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FactCheck will need to explain these hard chronological facts, which can be verified from the published photos by anyone with an EXIF reading tool, publically available on the net and as part of graphics software.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the embedded graphical information is correct, it means that FactCheck is lying about doing the photo session "recently" and may be lying about much more, since it would be implausible that "FactCheck" was even checking facts about the birth certificate in March 2008.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Factcheck may try to argue that the photographer "forgot" to set the correct time. But that would further illuminate the shoddy level of professionalism in disregarding the need for exact documentation of the date, a carelessness echoed in the introductory remarks of its article ("recently" is not a fact, especially when it is not clearly associated with the location of the photo shoot ? where the documents "reside" is hardly the same thing). If so, FactCheck would also need to show some other published photos published with the same camera that show an identical offset between the camera's time and the real time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Exactly for such reasons -- the lack of professionalism, exactitude and transparency concerning the provenance of this paper and the circumstances of the photographic session -- the reasonable demand from the skeptics -- who were initially made suspicious by the fact that the purported certificate image was published first (initially in relatively low resolution and only later in high resolution) in the far-left partisan Daily Kos blog -- has always been that the paper certificate must be subjected to the scrutiny of objective media or document forensics specialists, and mainstream journalists who can ask the hard question not just about this document image or that document image but examine it for themselves and query Obama himself about the many lingering mysteries and evasions in this whole affair.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is striking, too, that Newsweek reprints the FactCheck report under the organizational byline without the minimal scrutiny that one would expect from a serious news magazine. In effect it is an advertorial serving the interests of the Obama campaign, not an objective piece of journalism. Indeed, at the end there is a credit: "Republished with permission from factcheck.org."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:15:14 -0400
>>>>>>>> From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
>>>>>>>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Keep trying. Someone is bound to believe you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Old Strega wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you try to debate.  lose the debate.   now, losing proves your point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that's awesome.    those who take seriously obama's birth certificate and don't BELIEVE in the fact check report as ultimate truth make the mccain campaign look stupid.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> why don't you just keep typing irrelevant responses now you don't have a defense of the fact check report, you yourself, presented as if it were ultimate truth?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you keep making the obama believers look like bad debaters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> if you type the last word, you win even though backed out of your defense of fact check like a novice.
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:58:46 -0400
>>>>>>>>>> From: lacyjp at wfu.edu
>>>>>>>>>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] lacy and obama group think tactics
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Group it: You're proving my point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Old Strega wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> when you can't keep up with the line by line, resort to sarcasm and group think tactics.    you sound like irving kristol.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> lacy tried to present the "be all and end all" of the obama birth certificate controversy.   the fact check report.    lacy was trying to keep up with the debate and answer line by line and then he ran into the second line critique of that report and he grew suddenly silent and start characterizing his opponent as "crazy".    this is a predictable strategy of the coming obama administration.  there will be those who believe in obama, the right-minded, and those who question obama, the wing nuts.  already anti-obama websites like the larry sinclair site are being shut down periodically by pro-obama hack squads.    believe is a scary campaign slogan word.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> belief supercedes argument for people like lacy as is obvious from his backtracking insults.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the question is why couldn't lacy or any edebater so far keep up with the line by line on the obama birth certificate controversy as it is impacted by berg vs. obama?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> we know that the obama website has a copy of an alleged "authentic" birth certificate on its website but why doesn't the obama website have a defense of his motion to dismiss in berg vs. obama in lieu of submitting that birth certificate?   why is the obama website dodging the berg case?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> why isn't the mainstream media asking FREE PASS OBAMA about the berg vs. obama and the reasoning behind the motion to dismiss?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> when a candidate is given a FREE PASS on a birth certificate forgery that his followers believe to be true that is bad news and opens the door to a liberal version of the orwellian nightmare just as frightening as the coup attempted by the bush administration.
>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> When your life is on the go?take your life with you.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> eDebate mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> eDebate at www.ndtceda.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> When your life is on the go?take your life with you.
>>>>>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive.
>>>>>>> http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC.
>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> When your life is on the go?take your life with you.
>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how.
> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008
> _______________________________________________
> eDebate mailing list
> eDebate at www.ndtceda.com
> http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
_________________________________________________________________
Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008



More information about the Mailman mailing list