[eDebate] [CEDA-L] Novice at CEDA Nationals 2009

Alfred Snider alfred.snider
Tue Oct 28 13:57:19 CDT 2008


After I was CEDA president I participated briefly in CEDA governance. 
Then, I announced publicly that I would no longer serve CEDA in any 
official function because of the blatant cronyism and favoritism that 
ignored competence and hard work. I discovered that I could make more of 
a contribution to debate by working as an independent agent rather than 
as part of a formal debate organization.

The cronyism may have passed somewhat, but the latter part is still 
true, for me. Each to their own.

Tuna

Josh wrote:
> I havent been as active in CEDA as I used to be (hahahaha - cue 
> Jackie)...But my memory is that things like this used to start as an 
> amendment at a Business Meeting and then were sent out as a vote to 
> the community (if they passed at the business meeting).
>  
> Certainly have no horse in thise race (cue Tuna)....but usually we at 
> least tried Democracy first in matters such as this...CEDA is an 
> organization grouped around a tournament..its procedures and practices 
> regarding that tournament should probably be vetted democratically.
>  
> Again, not meaning to step on any toes or accidentally agree with the 
> Whaler,
>  
> Josh
>
> 2008/10/28 Shawn T Whalen <swhalen at sfsu.edu <mailto:swhalen at sfsu.edu>>
>
>
>     I'm not against the idea at all.  I am against these decisions
>     being made without the input of the full membership.  I don't
>     believe that the president has such authority, but even if he did
>     it should not be used without sharing a complete proposal with the
>     membership first and allowing time for feedback.
>
>     As I said, I support this idea generally, but this edict poses
>     significant changes that might be unpalatable to many.  For
>     example, will judge commitments be altered to ensure a pool of
>     judges for the break outs?  When will rounds be run
>     (simultaneously with other elims etc)?  How might that impact
>     pre-round coaching for teams in the elims? What is the capacity of
>     the facility hosting the elim rounds?  How much will we spend on
>     additional awards etc.?  Are there competing alternatives that
>     might recognize novice competitors but minimize the cost?
>
>     These are all discussions that the membership has been a part of
>     in the past.
>
>     Shawn
>
>
>
>
>     *"Sandoz, M L" <ML.Sandoz at Vanderbilt.Edu>*
>
>     10/28/2008 09:28 AM
>
>     	
>     To
>     	"Shawn Whalen" <swhalen at sfsu.edu <mailto:swhalen at sfsu.edu>>
>     cc
>     	"Darren Elliott" <delliott at kckcc.edu
>     <mailto:delliott at kckcc.edu>>, edebate at ndtceda.com
>     <mailto:edebate at ndtceda.com>, ceda-l at ndtceda.com
>     <mailto:ceda-l at ndtceda.com>
>     Subject
>     	Re: [CEDA-L] Novice at CEDA Nationals 2009
>
>
>
>     	
>
>
>     	
>
>
>
>
>     My memory is that the previous vote to which you are probably
>     referring
>     was to establish the support of a different category of debate -
>     Non-policy.  This required amending the resultion process and perhaps
>     points calculations.  I don't think this is the same.
>
>     -------------------------------------------------
>     Sandoz, M L
>     Director of Debate
>     Vanderbilt University
>     Email: mary.l.sandoz at Vanderbilt.Edu
>
>     On Sun, October 26, 2008 7:03 pm, Shawn Whalen wrote:
>     > I remember a day when the addition of an event at the national
>     > tournament required a vote of the membership. My how things change.
>     >
>     > Shawn
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On Oct 25, 2008, at 8:39 PM, "Darren Elliott"
>     <delliott at kckcc.edu <mailto:delliott at kckcc.edu>>
>     > wrote:
>     >
>     >> Greetings friends!
>     >>
>     >> I am pleased to announce a new addition to CEDA Nationals beginning
>     >> 2009, and something I hope will continue beyond my year as
>     President.
>     >>
>     >> It strikes me as odd that part of our mission and purpose is to
>     >> cultivate new debate programs, new debaters, and encourage and
>     >> support Novice debate, yet as an organization we do not officially
>     >> recognize Novice competition in its own right at the National
>     >> Tournament.  Many programs bring Novices to CEDA Nationals.  For
>     >> some programs, year to year, Novices may be the majority of their
>     >> program.  It seems like CEDA should make it a point to
>     celebrate and
>     >> reward Novice Debate by crowning a Champion among Novices at the
>     >> CEDA National Tournament.
>     >>
>     >> It is with that in mind that CEDA Nationals 2009 will, for the
>     first
>     >> time, offer a Novice breakout bracket, culminating in the crowning
>     >> of a CEDA recognized Champion among Novice Debate Teams.  Once
>     >> preliminary rounds are concluded, a separate bracket will be
>     created
>     >> among Novice eligible teams.  Both debaters must be eligible based
>     >> on CEDA's definition of Novice.  I will work with Tab Room Director
>     >> Gary Larson to determine the appropriate number of teams (hopefully
>     >> at least Quarters) and when the best time to begin these rounds
>     >> based on room availability and judges.
>     >>
>     >> I have engaged this conversation during tournaments throughout the
>     >> country.  Some Directors wanted a separate Novice division.  Others
>     >> liked the idea of a breakout bracket.  No one I have talked to was
>     >> in opposition of having some sort of Novice elim rounds.  For a few
>     >> programs they indicated it would be the only way they could justify
>     >> coming to CEDA in years when they only had Novices.  It seems
>     >> important to me to recognize and reward those Novices who come to
>     >> the National Tournament.  This, in my opinion, is long overdue.
>     >>
>     >> Looking forward to Pocatello!
>     >>
>     >> Sincerely,
>     >> chief
>     >> Darren Elliott
>     >> Director of Debate and Forensics--KCKCC
>     >> CEDA President
>     >> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Alfred C. Snider aka Tuna
Edwin Lawrence Professor of Forensics
University of Vermont
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