[eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners

Old Strega oldstrega
Wed Oct 29 22:49:10 CDT 2008


that's good.   stroube's full of himself so hoe's not lying about what he said.  

to point out a lie and a bad spin doesn't work because it requires the onus of superiority over the guy who tried to lump all the early presidents who were black as slave owners.   bad arguments should never be called bad arguments especially when a debate teacher makes a bad argument.

even better, bad arguments are not worth retracting because retraction feeds the narcissism of the opponent.

against an opponent who mixes ad-hominen with substantial argument, when you no longer have a substantial argument left resort to exclusive ad-hominem.   u michigan credo.

the potential over-hyping of the significance of obama as the "first black president" has been a completely uneducational thread brought into the discussion by a narcissist who has nothing to contribute.    we just need to go back to the story on television where the real education is happening.

the mitigated "first socially constructed black president" claim (despite evidence lincoln, coolidge and harding were also socially constructed black presidents) has not been a helpful revision for any person that reads edebate.    stroube has just been stroking himself with another self-serving racist argument based in african-american scholarship.   it would have been better to not question the media hype on edebate and allow obama the historically deceptive media version outright like he deserves.   

josh's intervention has made everyone realize stroube is wasting our time on another crazy wingnut idea about black presidential history.
________________________________
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:27:38 -0400
> From: jbhdb8 at gmail.com
> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners
> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
> 
> Once again the sound of yourself clapping yourself on the back, sooooo awesome....sooooo superior.....everyone else has an agenda....everyone else is wrong....but not strega...good old strega the good....he is the best....click click....narcissssssssssssism,
> 
> Josh
> 
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Old Strega  wrote:
> 
> hoe is using the cover of rationality and sane discourse to publicly lie about his own arguments.
> 
> 1) hoe never said or implied all 5 previous black presidents were slave owners.
> 
> the archives are putting words into josh's mouth.  he never made the generic disclaimer:
> 
> http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/2008-October/076656.html
> 
> "I know those early
> Presidents looked white...and they owned slaves....but they were really
> black...see,"
> 
> lincoln, coolidge and harding are among the 5 black presidents and they never owned slaves.
> 
> 2) but hoe did make a fabulous argument that the people of abraham africanus, the first's time had no idea he was black.     the opposition nicknamed him the african but none of the people read the newspapers or had any idea.   there were no pamphlets disclosing lincoln's ancestry.    it was a backroom nickname that was in no way used by the opposition to discredit abraham africanus.     that's his best argument he ever made in his life.   thanks, hoe i now believe that obama is the first socially constructed black president.  you haven't been elusive on this point which so friendly of you considering how many names i've called you.     i thought because i called you those names you were justified in dropping that argument and sticking to "obama is the first socially constructed president" according to the technical rules of rational discourse without losing on the flow.
> 
> 3) my anti-black agenda is real specific.   i'm glad you're not lying about this like your slave owner parry.     see, i'm against all black puppets under brzezinski and the predominantly white council on foreign relations who advocate warrantless wiretapping, the expansion of the criminal justice system, the subversion of article 2 of the constitution, war in afghanistan, and faith-based initiatives.       i'm against the manipulation of white guilt through the simulation of a "first black president" in the media as a mandate for the liberal version of the police state.  the prison guard union which endorses obama has more black men behind bars than any other population.     the assumption that obama, the jail union wetdream, is "pro-black" because he is black is a bad assumption.   perhaps, obama is "pro-black middle class" like dear oprah.   republican lite is hardly "pro-black".   that's simpleton.  i'm sorry.  i hope i didn't hurt your feelings by characterizing an extremely weak assumption as "simpleton".     you better quit this thread.   it's entirely based in ad-hominem attacks.
> 
> ________________________________
>> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:02:17 -0400
>> From: jbhdb8 at gmail.com
>> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners
>> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
>>
>> Stroube,
>>
>> I have tried to be nice, I have tried to be mean, I have tried to humor you....frankly I dont really care.
>> You are basically making the Nader argument for the last 8 years...Its tired...I would rather have a flawed Obama then have another Bush.  You might not appreciate degrees of difference but I do.
>>
>> As for the rest - you dont care what I say or dont say, if I participate, anything I say will get "idiot Hoe" "moron" or worse....You just want a foil so you can keep congratulating yourself about how darn smart you are.
>>
>> You have yet to get the argument after three explanations...I am not denying that the former Presidents were of color....you can keep trumpeting that all you want...I am NOT denying that its important to deconstruct that version of white history...I am NOT saying that they were never slurred as "of color."
>>
>> Now here are the arguments...I can go reallllllllllly slow just to make sure you get it this time:
>>
>> 1. Most people who voted for them thought they were white
>> 2. You are using this to further an anti-Black agenda which is jackassery
>> 3. You are a gasbag, give nobody respect, and could care less what anyone says
>>
>> Have a nice day, if I stop responding its not because I dont think the discussion COULD be productive with a rational human being...Its because your narcissism is unbeliveable,
>>
>> Josh
>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Old Strega  wrote:
>> hoe is leaving the conversation because his argument is awful.
>>
>> conceding that obama is the sixth black president, he goes for obama being the first socially constructed black president.
>>
>> "abraham lincoln was called Abraham Africanus, the First by his opponents."
>>
>> this argument has been made five times and hoe can't seem to show how this is not a social construction of a black president.
>>
>> hoe wants all five of the previous black presidents to have been slave owners socially constructed as white but he can't muster the complete argument to defend that view.
>>
>> the only argument hoe has is that the school system and the television have socially constructed (rewritten history) the 5 previous black presidents as white.    hoe has believed that history his whole life and this conviction is so strong that he can't hear the historical evidence which denies obama's presidential legacy as the first black president.
>>
>> ________________________________
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