[eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners

Josh jbhdb8
Wed Oct 29 22:52:55 CDT 2008


You got me narcissist, you are soooooo smart,

Josh

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Old Strega <oldstrega at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> that's good.   stroube's full of himself so hoe's not lying about what he
> said.
>
> to point out a lie and a bad spin doesn't work because it requires the onus
> of superiority over the guy who tried to lump all the early presidents who
> were black as slave owners.   bad arguments should never be called bad
> arguments especially when a debate teacher makes a bad argument.
>
> even better, bad arguments are not worth retracting because retraction
> feeds the narcissism of the opponent.
>
> against an opponent who mixes ad-hominen with substantial argument, when
> you no longer have a substantial argument left resort to exclusive
> ad-hominem.   u michigan credo.
>
> the potential over-hyping of the significance of obama as the "first black
> president" has been a completely uneducational thread brought into the
> discussion by a narcissist who has nothing to contribute.    we just need to
> go back to the story on television where the real education is happening.
>
> the mitigated "first socially constructed black president" claim (despite
> evidence lincoln, coolidge and harding were also socially constructed black
> presidents) has not been a helpful revision for any person that reads
> edebate.    stroube has just been stroking himself with another self-serving
> racist argument based in african-american scholarship.   it would have been
> better to not question the media hype on edebate and allow obama the
> historically deceptive media version outright like he deserves.
>
> josh's intervention has made everyone realize stroube is wasting our time
> on another crazy wingnut idea about black presidential history.
> ________________________________
> > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:27:38 -0400
> > From: jbhdb8 at gmail.com
> > To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners
> > CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
> >
> > Once again the sound of yourself clapping yourself on the back, sooooo
> awesome....sooooo superior.....everyone else has an agenda....everyone else
> is wrong....but not strega...good old strega the good....he is the
> best....click click....narcissssssssssssism,
> >
> > Josh
> >
>  > On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Old Strega  wrote:
> >
> > hoe is using the cover of rationality and sane discourse to publicly lie
> about his own arguments.
> >
> > 1) hoe never said or implied all 5 previous black presidents were slave
> owners.
> >
> > the archives are putting words into josh's mouth.  he never made the
> generic disclaimer:
> >
> > http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/2008-October/076656.html
> >
> > "I know those early
> > Presidents looked white...and they owned slaves....but they were really
> > black...see,"
> >
> > lincoln, coolidge and harding are among the 5 black presidents and they
> never owned slaves.
> >
> > 2) but hoe did make a fabulous argument that the people of abraham
> africanus, the first's time had no idea he was black.     the opposition
> nicknamed him the african but none of the people read the newspapers or had
> any idea.   there were no pamphlets disclosing lincoln's ancestry.    it was
> a backroom nickname that was in no way used by the opposition to discredit
> abraham africanus.     that's his best argument he ever made in his life.
> thanks, hoe i now believe that obama is the first socially constructed black
> president.  you haven't been elusive on this point which so friendly of you
> considering how many names i've called you.     i thought because i called
> you those names you were justified in dropping that argument and sticking to
> "obama is the first socially constructed president" according to the
> technical rules of rational discourse without losing on the flow.
> >
> > 3) my anti-black agenda is real specific.   i'm glad you're not lying
> about this like your slave owner parry.     see, i'm against all black
> puppets under brzezinski and the predominantly white council on foreign
> relations who advocate warrantless wiretapping, the expansion of the
> criminal justice system, the subversion of article 2 of the constitution,
> war in afghanistan, and faith-based initiatives.       i'm against the
> manipulation of white guilt through the simulation of a "first black
> president" in the media as a mandate for the liberal version of the police
> state.  the prison guard union which endorses obama has more black men
> behind bars than any other population.     the assumption that obama, the
> jail union wetdream, is "pro-black" because he is black is a bad assumption.
>   perhaps, obama is "pro-black middle class" like dear oprah.   republican
> lite is hardly "pro-black".   that's simpleton.  i'm sorry.  i hope i didn't
> hurt your feelings by characterizing an extremely weak assumption as
> "simpleton".     you better quit this thread.   it's entirely based in
> ad-hominem attacks.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:02:17 -0400
> >> From: jbhdb8 at gmail.com
> >> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> >> Subject: Re: [eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners
> >> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
> >>
> >> Stroube,
> >>
> >> I have tried to be nice, I have tried to be mean, I have tried to humor
> you....frankly I dont really care.
> >> You are basically making the Nader argument for the last 8 years...Its
> tired...I would rather have a flawed Obama then have another Bush.  You
> might not appreciate degrees of difference but I do.
> >>
> >> As for the rest - you dont care what I say or dont say, if I
> participate, anything I say will get "idiot Hoe" "moron" or worse....You
> just want a foil so you can keep congratulating yourself about how darn
> smart you are.
> >>
> >> You have yet to get the argument after three explanations...I am not
> denying that the former Presidents were of color....you can keep trumpeting
> that all you want...I am NOT denying that its important to deconstruct that
> version of white history...I am NOT saying that they were never slurred as
> "of color."
> >>
> >> Now here are the arguments...I can go reallllllllllly slow just to make
> sure you get it this time:
> >>
> >> 1. Most people who voted for them thought they were white
> >> 2. You are using this to further an anti-Black agenda which is
> jackassery
> >> 3. You are a gasbag, give nobody respect, and could care less what
> anyone says
> >>
> >> Have a nice day, if I stop responding its not because I dont think the
> discussion COULD be productive with a rational human being...Its because
> your narcissism is unbeliveable,
> >>
> >> Josh
> >> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Old Strega  wrote:
> >> hoe is leaving the conversation because his argument is awful.
> >>
> >> conceding that obama is the sixth black president, he goes for obama
> being the first socially constructed black president.
> >>
> >> "abraham lincoln was called Abraham Africanus, the First by his
> opponents."
> >>
> >> this argument has been made five times and hoe can't seem to show how
> this is not a social construction of a black president.
> >>
> >> hoe wants all five of the previous black presidents to have been slave
> owners socially constructed as white but he can't muster the complete
> argument to defend that view.
> >>
> >> the only argument hoe has is that the school system and the television
> have socially constructed (rewritten history) the 5 previous black
> presidents as white.    hoe has believed that history his whole life and
> this conviction is so strong that he can't hear the historical evidence
> which denies obama's presidential legacy as the first black president.
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> When your life is on the go?take your life with you. Try Windows Mobile(R)
> today
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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