[eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners

Duane Hyland privethedge
Thu Oct 30 07:02:04 CDT 2008


If there is one thing I hate, it's poorly interpreted history. Lincoln was called "Abraham Africanus" by copperheads and democrats during the 1864 election?because of his issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation - not because he was an African-American. If you're going to pontificate about history, at least get the story right!
?
And...Lincoln's wife, Mary Todd, was a slave owner through inheritance. In fact...long after Robert E. Lee had freed his slaves, the slaves on the Todd plantation in Kentucky were still in bondage.

Now..go back to your rants.









"You may be whatever you resolve to be." Thomas J. Jackson"
"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that person that he, if he had the power, would be in silencing mankind? If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by??its collision with error." John S. Mill
?Who said Dr. Who isn't Funny: "Rose: You Didn't Have to Kill him! Dalek: "Neither did we need him to live."
Dalek to Cyberman: :"You are Superior to us in one respect." Cyberman: "What is that?" Dalek: "Dying!"


--- On Wed, 10/29/08, Old Strega <oldstrega at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Old Strega <oldstrega at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners
To: edebate at ndtceda.com
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 10:11 PM

hoe is using the cover of rationality and sane discourse to publicly lie about
his own arguments.   

1) hoe never said or implied all 5 previous black presidents were slave owners.

the archives are putting words into josh's mouth.  he never made the
generic disclaimer:

http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/2008-October/076656.html

"I know those early 
Presidents looked white...and they owned slaves....but they were really 
black...see,"

lincoln, coolidge and harding are among the 5 black presidents and they never
owned slaves.

2) but hoe did make a fabulous argument that the people of abraham africanus,
the first's time had no idea he was black.     the opposition nicknamed him
the african but none of the people read the newspapers or had any idea.   there
were no pamphlets disclosing lincoln's ancestry.    it was a backroom
nickname that was in no way used by the opposition to discredit abraham
africanus.     that's his best argument he ever made in his life.   thanks,
hoe i now believe that obama is the first socially constructed black president. 
you haven't been elusive on this point which so friendly of you considering
how many names i've called you.     i thought because i called you those
names you were justified in dropping that argument and sticking to "obama
is the first socially constructed president" according to the technical
rules of rational discourse without losing on the flow.

3) my anti-black agenda is real specific.   i'm glad you're not lying
about this like your slave owner parry.     see, i'm against all black
puppets under brzezinski and the predominantly white council on foreign
relations who advocate warrantless wiretapping, the expansion of the criminal
justice system, the subversion of article 2 of the constitution, war in
afghanistan, and faith-based initiatives.       i'm against the manipulation
of white guilt through the simulation of a "first black president" in
the media as a mandate for the liberal version of the police state.  the prison
guard union which endorses obama has more black men behind bars than any other
population.     the assumption that obama, the jail union wetdream, is
"pro-black" because he is black is a bad assumption.   perhaps, obama
is "pro-black middle class" like dear oprah.   republican lite is
hardly "pro-black".   that's simpleton.  i'm sorry.  i hope i
didn't hurt your feelings by characterizing an extremely weak assumption as
"simpleton".     you better quit this thread.   it's entirely
based in ad-hominem attacks.

________________________________
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:02:17 -0400
> From: jbhdb8 at gmail.com
> To: oldstrega at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [eDebate] hoe: lincoln, coolidge + harding = slave owners
> CC: edebate at ndtceda.com
> 
> Stroube,
> 
> I have tried to be nice, I have tried to be mean, I have tried to humor
you....frankly I dont really care.
> You are basically making the Nader argument for the last 8 years...Its
tired...I would rather have a flawed Obama then have another Bush.  You might
not appreciate degrees of difference but I do.
> 
> As for the rest - you dont care what I say or dont say, if I participate,
anything I say will get "idiot Hoe" "moron" or worse....You
just want a foil so you can keep congratulating yourself about how darn smart
you are.
> 
> You have yet to get the argument after three explanations...I am not
denying that the former Presidents were of color....you can keep trumpeting that
all you want...I am NOT denying that its important to deconstruct that version
of white history...I am NOT saying that they were never slurred as "of
color."
> 
> Now here are the arguments...I can go reallllllllllly slow just to make
sure you get it this time:
> 
> 1. Most people who voted for them thought they were white
> 2. You are using this to further an anti-Black agenda which is jackassery
> 3. You are a gasbag, give nobody respect, and could care less what anyone
says
> 
> Have a nice day, if I stop responding its not because I dont think the
discussion COULD be productive with a rational human being...Its because your
narcissism is unbeliveable,
> 
> Josh
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Old Strega  wrote:
> hoe is leaving the conversation because his argument is awful.
> 
> conceding that obama is the sixth black president, he goes for obama being
the first socially constructed black president.
> 
> "abraham lincoln was called Abraham Africanus, the First by his
opponents."
> 
> this argument has been made five times and hoe can't seem to show how
this is not a social construction of a black president.
> 
> hoe wants all five of the previous black presidents to have been slave
owners socially constructed as white but he can't muster the complete
argument to defend that view.
> 
> the only argument hoe has is that the school system and the television
have socially constructed (rewritten history) the 5 previous black presidents as
white.    hoe has believed that history his whole life and this conviction is so
strong that he can't hear the historical evidence which denies obama's
presidential legacy as the first black president.
> 
> ________________________________
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Mobile? today
> 
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