[eDebate] Never ending War

Pacedebate at aol.com Pacedebate
Sat Apr 11 14:19:39 CDT 2009

group all of _webb767 at gmail.com's_ (mailto:webb767 at gmail.com's)   arguments:
1) He has endorsed a system that commodifies us all and strips all value to  
2) His claims of empirical studies and qualified authors is the link, fool.  
Our authors have carefully avoided any empirical study to avoid the traps of  
western empiricism/imperialism
3) It's try or die
4) The root cause of all these problems is the system of capitalism
5) Dude, it's like you haven't debated the K since the 1990s. It's about  
your choice of methodology which is obviously flawed.
6) you dropped our envisioning of utopia, none of your indicts or impact  
turns apply.
thank you for playing.
In a message dated 4/11/2009 12:22:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
webb767 at gmail.com writes:

Never ending wars huh! Let me begin with the second hit on  google when you 
search for ?number of wars? 
Ever since the end of the Cold War, the number of wars  has been declining. 
Perhaps more importantly, the number of wars between  countries has declined 
even more. There have only been four since 1991;  Ethiopia versus Eritrea 
(1998-2000), India versus Pakistan (low level, in  Kashmir, since 1990), Iraq versus 
Kuwait (1991), and Iraq versus Coalition  (2003). There are 15-20 wars going 
on right now. The uncertain count comes  from the fact that there is a fuzzy 
line separating wars from civil disorder.  The good news is that's about 40 
percent fewer conflicts than were going on in  1991, when the Cold War ended. All 
the conflicts going on now are civil wars  of one kind or another. The worst 
of the lot are in Africa (Sudan, Congo),  with the number three position being 
filled by Iraq. Afghanistan has been in a  state of civil war for over two 
decades. Some Afghan historians would insist  that there's never been a time 
when some group or another was not fighting  inside what we call Afghanistan. 
Even the overthrow of the Taliban in 2001 was  not an "invasion" by the United 
States, but rather U.S. forces joining in an  ongoing civil war between the 
Taliban (and their al Qaeda allies), against the  Northern Alliance. A few hundred 
American commandoes and other specialists, a  few dozen bombers, were all 
that was sent to the Northern Alliance, and that  was all that was needed to 
overthrow the increasingly unpopular Taliban.  Why the decline in wars? Part of it 
has to do with the fact that so  many of the wars of the past few decades 
were the rough edges of  decolonialization, and the after-effects of World War II 
(and World War I,  which led to the breakup of the Ottoman empire.) When 
empires fall apart, they  rarely do so quietly. The demise of the Russian empire 
in 1991 has led to  fighting in Chechnya, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia and a few 
other places you  hardly ever hear about. And then there was the competition 
between the two  superpowers. The Soviet Union was, after all, technically 
dedicated to  world wide revolution and the triumph of communism. The United States 
was  opposed to that. Both superpowers ended up supporting numerous rebel  
organizations, or the governments that fought them. With the end of the Cold  
War, all that stopped.  The end of the Cold War, and several  decades of 
economic and political experimentation by many countries, made it  clear that 
democracy, and market economies, were the road to prosperity. That  meant the rule of 
the people, and the law, began to replace tyrants and  centrally controlled 
economies. Rebels now had a more difficult time getting  any traction. Most of 
the wars going on now are based on long time ethnic  or religious disputes. 
The Islamic terrorists get a lot of attention, but  they are very small change 
compared to the threats encountered in the past  century. Islamic terrorists 
don't even have a country to base their operations  in, and are constantly on 
the run. But the Islamic terrorists are part of many  of the ethnic and 
religious conflicts that form the basis for so many existing  wars. 
The article is a little rough admittedly, but I think the  most important 
point is pretty clear. Which begs an interesting question  Jackie?What planet do 
you live on? Seriously? 
This article is just about the number of wars since the  cold war. Nevermind 
that the bloodiest conflict in history was fought before  we had the bomb?and 
then? abra kadabra?superpowers don?t want to fight each  other anymore. 
Realism is a failed ideology?!?!?! 
Yeah I have got a better idea, lets all sit around and read  Nietzsche all 
day and see where that gets us. Perhaps we can structure the  international 
order around the ubermensch or we can sit around and think about  our feelings 
(ontology?etc.) all day?. I wonder where we would be  then?hmmm?.wait?that?s 
right?Nazi Germany. You like to scoff at the  old..wft..Heidegger was a Nazi 
argument?and yeah?its pretty crappy?but  seriously?. 
What is more is that the only reason any of us get to  participate in this 
activity, fly all over the country, stay in nice hotels,  etc. Is because we 
live in the wealthiest country on earth?period. We generate  the excess wealth 
necessary. We pay the big bad government taxes, and they  give it to the 
university that employs you Massey. Yes, other countries have  debate. It is not like 
NDT/CEDA debate. Nobody does it like we do it?and its  because of?.aircraft 
carriers, capitalism, and the pharmaceutical companies.  Capitalism makes it 
possible baby!!! You call it  exceptionalism?.I call it?reality. There is not 
a better place to live, and  there is no where any of us would rather be. If 
you do want to leave?you  can?because?wait?that right?you are free to. 
Perhaps I have been brainwashed. Maybe debate has twisted  my mind in ways I 
can?t understand, and I will probably never recover. Andy  Casey once told me 
I was an automaton?some sort of robot that worships the  bomb?true. Despite 
this, I am confident that most signs point to, and the  preponderance of peer 
reviewed work in almost every field would suggest,  things aren?t that bad. 
(peer reviewed as in?no?not Ward Churchill). This is  not the Soviet Union. Yes 
recession, yes Iraq, yes poverty, yes hunger?..there  are plenty of problems 
to concern ourselves with. All the more reason to?I  dunno?talk about them.  
?Re arm ourselves? ?No more realism?? ?new files? ? but  then where would 
you be Jackie. I mean, if no one researches the topic, where  are you going 
to get your link. What would you do without people like me.  Jackie, we live in 
a world that has walls and those walls  need to be guarded by men with guns. 
Who's gonna do it? You? Russell? The  automatons of this community have a 
greater responsibility than you can  possibly fathom. You wine about our ontology 
and your curse our ethics; you  have that luxury. You have the luxury of not 
knowing what we know: that  nuclear weapons, while awesome, also probably saves 
lives and that their  existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, 
save lives. You need  people like me Jackie. You don't want to talk about the 
topic because deep  down in places you don't talk about at cocktail parties 
you want me on that  wall, you need me on that wall. We use cards from 
Mearsheimer, Mead, and  Khalilzad. We use them as the backbone of a life trying to 
defend something.  The damned resolution. To you its little more than a punch 
line. I have  neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who 
rises and  sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom God provides (his 
capitalism) and  then questions the manner in which he provides it. I would 
rather you just  said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you 
just  ...well...read the same argument again next year. Either way, I don't give 
a  damn what you think we need. 
Oh?and you have the UQ?.You?have the UQ?.that?s cute. Look  Jackie I don?t 
blame you for having no Idea where the UQ is. You lost the UQ a  long time 
ago my friend. You just didn?t notice because while you and the  other hippies 
were busy playing with your ontologies?me and the other neocons  stole it out 
from under your nose. This world isn?t changing Jackie. And if  those walls 
come down we are bringing the rest of you down with them. The  oceans will boil, 
the mountains will tremble, and the masses will live in  fear. We will nuke 
the land, pave it, and put a giant American flag above the  shopping mall. That?
s the world we live in. That?s the world you live in  Jackie. Ignore it if you 
want?it will just make it that much easier. 

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