[eDebate] john bolton is the phantom menace

Kevin Sanchez let_the_american_empire_burn
Fri Jul 10 04:57:27 CDT 2009

http://www.ndtceda.com/pipermail/edebate/2009-July/079146.html :
"...of course there's no definitive evidence of the CIA soft coup in
the weeks following the election...".

good, we agree. hammond, erlich, and i are proud to have you back
on team reality. thanks for a vigorous discussion.

p.s., for the record, i didn't engage in "doctoring the evidence", nor
did i "misquote" hammond:
- those are spurious charges, which jack would retract if he took any
care in what he writes.

i also didn't drop the argument from circularity, despite jack's claim
that i did so; i responded to it specifically, and by name, right here:
- noting that simply saying there's a lack of evidence does not qualify
as a defense of anybody. i'm glad jack now agrees with my rationale.

nor did i imply that western media coverage has been impartial or in
any way attempt to "purify the TV headlines" - quite the contrary:

- "given the predispositions of the mass media outlets we're discussing,
they were inclined to believe [mousavi's] supporters and mousavi above
ahmadinejad and his supporters." the explanation provided by their bias,
however, diminishes the necessity of an orchestrated hoax.

nor am i guilty of "dismissing hammond". i'm in complete agreement with
him - except that i prefer the term 'plausible' to 'likely' (as 'likely' to me
connotes 'probable', not merely 'consistent with past history') and i go
a step farther than him, not simply affirming iranians' right to peaceably
protest, but also affirming their revolutionary courage in itself. despite
the fact that i join erlich in criticizing those who nominalized this mass
protest as inauthentic, he did misrepresent hammond and should have
retracted his characterization when his error was exposed in good faith.
(i guess some people would rather persist in error than surrender their
bullshit rhetorical posture. ...seems there's a bit of that going around
these days.)

p.p.s., on a personal note to jack, please do not put quotes around
statements i don't make. the sentence "i'm not defending the CIA
because the CIA was not involved" is yours, not mine - yet you attributed
it to me. that's a misquote, which is a practice i know you to oppose.


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