[eDebate] FW: birth certificate goes mainstream: lou dobbs

Judson Eldredge eldredge_edebate
Mon Jul 27 16:06:56 CDT 2009


OK, just one more thing and then I'll stop beating this dead horse.  That you would refer to Obama as "an illegal" is just further evidence to me that you put almost zero thought into the meaningless little op/ed snippets you put above your cut and paste posts.
Look, even the tinfoil hat crowd that thinks he was born in Kenya doesn't go that far. He is clearly a LEGAL US citizen, everyone admits that is true even if he was born in Kenya (which he wasn't). The ONLY question is whether he meets the Article 2 "natural born" requirement. The requirement at the time of his birth is that only one parent was a US citizen residing in the US for ten years before the child?s birth (5 of which after the age of 14). His mother clearly meets this standard. Making the claim that he is "an illegal" absolutely fictitious.
The only possible argument you MIGHT have (if you misunderstood the facts and the law) would be based on some paperwork filled out by his father in Indonesia which MIGHT be construed as evidence of dual citizenship. In any case, this still would not make Obama anything other than a legal citizen of the US, not "an illegal".


From: eldredge_edebate at hotmail.com
To: edebate at ndtceda.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:07:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [eDebate] birth certificate goes mainstream: lou dobbs


Old Strega, I have been reading your plentiful posts all summer, and trying to maintain respect for them and you, but you?re basically making that impossible. I can see no reason why you would post to edebate that "Obama is an illegal and therefore not qualified to be president". You seem to have at least some of the critical thinking and research skills that debate instills, so why would you post a statement like this that any high school student with 1/2 a brain and an internet connection could debunk in minutes?
Have you even read anything about this or are you just cut and paste happy? 
As for the soldier (Major Stefan Fredrick Cook) "contesting the commander and chief's orders", as you put it.  You realize he didn't get called back to active duty or ordered to do anything he didn't want to do.  He freaking' volunteered for the duty (and I don't mean in the general sense that every soldier is a volunteer). I mean he specifically requested it. He could have simply told them he didn't want to go up until the very day of his deployment. He (and Orly Taitz, his "lawyer" who can?t even get admitted to the ABA) manufactured this to gain standing to once again file a frivolous claim about a matter that has already been adjudicated.
As for the complaint (application for injunction) itself. It is a joke, literally.  Have you even read it?  Please do, Orly Taitz esquire's interpretation of the UCMJ is complete fiction.  Not to mention it is TOTALLY 100% devoid of any evidence, or even any claims that any evidence exists.
As for previous adjudications of this matter, like the Philip Berg pre-election lawsuit, have you read any of that masterful legal pleading? At least they argued there was SOME evidence.  Of course the big evidence in that federal filing was that the English language version of wikipedia listed a different birth hospital for Obama than the Italian language version of Wikipedia.  Now that is damning evidence indeed!
As for the truth of the matter, why don't you think it?s good enough that Obama satisfy the same criteria that EVERY OTHER American citizen born in Hawaii has to meet?  He has produced the same Hawaiian certificate of live birth that everyone else does.  It has been found to be genuine and virtually every public official in the state of Hawaii that has connection to this has stated on the record that it is legit.  Not a single one disputes it. None! You realize that the birth was even announced in local papers at the time of his birth right? Seriously, just how deep and far back do you think this conspiracy goes? To me it looks like your way past Manchurian Candidate territory and getting pretty deep into the tin foil hat/straightjacket zone.
If you think President's need higher standards than other American's to prove their place of birth, then get the standard changed before the next election, but you won't need to spread any false rumors about Obama to do it.  Getting the standard changed would just be a policy debate.  That?s what we do here remember?  We debate policy here not fringe conspiracy theories that you believe are true on nothing more than faith.  I'm not trying to censor you, post what you want, but at least 1/2 a second of forethought before posting would probably do worlds of good for digging your credibility back out of the dirt.
Please apply the intelligence that you obviously have to critically analyzing your posts before you hit send.  If you do that, and you still think it?s worth saying, try to say it yourself instead of cutting and pasting someone else's stuff.  You realize this is a community of skilled researcher?s right? You don?t think we know where WorldNet Daily is if we want to go there?
Sorry if that was too harsh, but if you take it to heart maybe your advocacy might actually lead people to change something besides their spam filter settings.
P.S.  Lou "mainstream" Dobbs is a "great American".  Glenn Beck is too, and if you buy his new book (and a copy for a friend) you can save the country. Plus, Bill O'Reilly and Shawn Hannity; they are "great Americans" too; don?t forget to buy their books as well.  I just love it when they all go on Hannity together and call each other "great Americans".  They said it almost as many times as they reminded us to buy their books. It?s just like one big orgy of patriotic/consumer synergy. Sorry, I meant to say "mainstream patriotism". That?s the best kind you know, especially if you?re selling books.  Thanks goodness these dedicated ethical ?mainstream? journalists are out there keeping the Obama birth story alive, when it is ignored by the bias liberal drive-by media. They truly are ?great Americans?. Oh and don?t forget to buy those books!
P.P.S. If you can't stay off the consipracy train.  Go for Bilderberg or at least something halfway interesting that a gradeschooler couldn't debunk. This birther junk is just dumb and boring.

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:10:44 -0500
From: bobdoleable at gmail.com
To: jbhdb8 at gmail.com
CC: edebate at ndtceda.com; jvreedmore at hotmail.com; oldstrega at hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [eDebate] birth certificate goes mainstream: lou dobbs

i dont know why we are talking about this on a space were constructive discussion about the academic debate world take place. when most "reasonable and i know this asking alot of sir hates alot," people have already realized its frivolous and unfounded.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 1:55 AM, Michael Tahmoressi <bobdoleable at gmail.com> wrote:


On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Josh <jbhdb8 at gmail.com> wrote:

I have been trying to stay out of this...but the person who replaced Lou "hates immigrants" Dobbs last week spent thirty minutes de-bunking the Obama birth certificate issue before Dobbs came back and ignored it.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Old Strega <oldstrega at hotmail.com> wrote:

despite the freakout over his skepticism about obama's birth certificate, lou dobbs will remain @ CNN.  i agree with what lou is saying on TV --- obama is an illegal and therefore not qualified to be president according to the constitution.   thank god soldiers are contesting the "commander-in-chief's" orders to go to afghanistan.   BORN IN KENYA!!! 


By Matea Gold 
July 25, 2009
Reporting from New York -- CNN/U.S. President Jon Klein told staffers of "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on Thursday that the controversy regarding the legitimacy of President Obama's birth certificate -- a topic Dobbs has avidly pursued on the air -- is a "dead" story.

But in an interview, the cable news chief left open the possibility that Dobbs may continue to raise questions about why the president has not produced a long-form birth certificate. The absence of such a record has spawned rumors that Obama was not born in the United States, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

"He's got more than 30 years as a television journalist, and I trust him, as I trust all our reporters and anchors, to exercise their judgment as various stories evolve," Klein said of Dobbs, whose daily CNN program is a mix of news and opinion.


CNN President Jon Klein declares Obama birther story 'dead'
Lou Dobbs and the canard over President Obama's birth

"Certainly if there are future news pegs, then we have to take that story as it comes," he added. 

That appeared to be a step back from the stance Klein took in his e-mail Thursday, in which he wrote that CNN researchers had determined that Hawaiian officials discarded paper documents in 2001. Because of that, Obama's long-form birth certificate no longer exists and a shorter certificate of live birth that has been made public is the official record, they reported.

"It seems to definitively answer the question," Klein wrote in the e-mail, first reported by the website TVNewser. "Since the show's mission is for Lou to be the explainer and enlightener, he should be sure to cite this during your segment tonite. And then it seems this story is dead -- because anyone who still is not convinced doesn't really have a legitimate beef."

On Friday, Klein said he was not ordering the staff to drop the story.

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