[eDebate] smoking iran editorial -- financial times

Old Strega oldstrega
Sat Jun 27 14:09:49 CDT 2009

i think we're coming to an end on this thread.   mucho appreciando.
1) a new article describing the extreme difficulty of the vote fraud (best documented by the Rothschild sitting Chatham House) without there being hundreds of 1000s of witnesses.   the absence of interviews with vote fraud witnesses means that the western media is shrouding the rather transparent iranian election system in mystery as if it were zimbabwe or something.   

If this information is near accurate, it would appear that large scale fraud is extremely difficult, if not impossible, without creating an extensive trail of evidence. Indeed, if this election was stolen, there must be tens of thousands of witnesses -- or perhaps hundreds of thousands - to the theft. Yet there are no media accounts of interviews with such witnesses.Is it possible that, in most of the country, the procedures outlined above - followed in previous elections - were abruptly abandoned, with ballot boxes whisked away before anyone could count them at the precinct level? Again, many of the more than 700,000 people involved in the electoral process would have been witnesses to such a large-scale event. Given the courage that hundreds of thousands of people have demonstrated in taking to the streets, we would expect at least some to come forward with information on what happened.Rostam Pourzal, an Iranian-American human rights campaigner, told me that it is common knowledge in Iran that these are the election procedures and that they were generally followed in this election. Professor Marandi concurred, and added: "There's just no way that any large-scale or systematic fraud could have taken place."
2) your most recent position is the most compelling to me so far given the weakness of every, single western media angle on the election.   the only problem i can see is that ahmadinejad won by the same margin of victory last time.   but then again, the protests were not there.     the interesting question becomes: will the movement ever reach critical mass in the future and swell beyond the students and educated?   probably not, if the US remains at war on both borders and national security remains the dominant political issue in iran.   sanctions will strengthen the hardliners.
3) another turn -- blowback -- obama and US gov't pretense that the election was stolen undermine diplomacy and weaken the position of the opposition groups misrepresenting them as disenfranchised:

But from the point of view of promoting more normal relations between the United States and Iran, avoiding a military conflict, and bringing stability to the region, the truth as to the more narrow question of whether the election was procedurally fraudulent may be relevant. If in fact the election was not stolen, and Washington (and Europe) pretend that it was, this can contribute to a worsening of relations. It will give further ammunition to hard-liners in Iran, who are portraying the whole uprising as a conspiracy organized by the West. (It doesn't help that the Obama administration hasn't announced an end to the covert operations that the Bush administration was carrying out within Iran). More importantly, it will boost hardliners here - including some in the Obama administration - who want to de-legitimize the government of Iran in order to avoid serious negotiations over its nuclear program. That is something that we should avoid, because a failure to seriously pursue negotiations now may lead to war in the future.

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