[eDebate] FW: From Rich Edwards (with a preface from me)

matt stannard stannardmatt
Mon May 11 22:01:10 CDT 2009


Gary has already addressed this, but Rich wrote an extensive post he asked me to forward.  I agree with his sentiment regarding how these things get brought up.  I am sorry if my unthinking reaction (can we verify this) made it any worse for anyone.  mjs
 
> From: Richard_Edwards at baylor.edu
> To: stannardmatt at hotmail.com
> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 20:33:23 -0500
> Subject: Re: [eDebate] Error in team points calculation leads to NDT outround seeding errors
> 
> Matt,
> 
> Thanks for calling this post to my attention. I do not routinely read edebate and do not have posting privileges.
> 
> Would you be willing to post the following response for me?
> 
> The report of an error in NDT seeding is based upon a misunderstanding of the NDT rule for calculating team high-low points.
> 
> The person posting the error report presumes that team high-low points should be calculated by adding together the high/low points for the two speakers. Thus, in the example used in the error report Web site, the individual high/low points for Jackson and Murray were added together for a total of 1240. The anonymous Web site says that the TRPC results sheet incorrectly presents the team high/low points for Towson JM as 1235.5 (tied with Berkeley). In fact, the 1235.5 team high/low total is correct. The Towson team was offered as an example of this alleged error with the statement that the same error seems to routinely occur for other teams.
> 
> The NDT rule calls for dropping the lowest ballot and highest ballot in order to determine the high/low point total. The total of all points for Towson JM was 1353. The lowest ballot total for the team was 55.5 and the highest ballot total was 58. When these two totals are subtracted from 1353, the high/low point total is 1235.5 (as corrected reported by TRPC on the result sheet). The seeding was properly determined.
> 
> So, one may ask, why can't you just add the high/low points for the two individual debaters and get the same total (1235.5)? How is it possible that Jackson's high low total (618) and Murray's high low total (622) adds up to 1240? The difference is completely understandable when you think about how individual high/low speaker points are calculated. The computer has to locate the lowest and highest individual points for Jackson and Murray, which may not (and often do not) occur in the same rounds for Jackson as for Murray. If you take the time to look at the sheet and add up the points, you will realize the truth that the team high-lows and the individual high-lows were correctly calculated.
> 
> Please, those of us who work in the NDT tab room do it as a labor of love and without compensation. We certainly do not object to being questioned and are happy to answer questions. If we have made mistakes, we are certainly willing to stand responsible for them. One would think, however, that we at least deserve the courtesy of having someone contact us directly to ask how we calculated the seeds before simply announcing to all concerned that errors are carelessly and routinely made.
> 
> Thanks to Matt Stannard for calling the post to our attention so that we could address the issue.
> 
> Rich Edwards
> Professor of Communication Studies
> Baylor University
> Richard_Edwards at baylor.edu
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/11/09 4:56 PM, "matt stannard" <stannardmatt at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't know if that's necessary--whoever anonymously posted this seems to have been in error.
> 
> > From: Richard_Edwards at baylor.edu
> > To: stannardmatt at hotmail.com
> > Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:48:10 -0500
> > Subject: RE: [eDebate] Error in team points calculation leads to NDT outround seeding errors
> >
> > Thanks,Matt. Could you call my cell phone at 254 744 2443?
> >
> > Rich
> > ________________________________________
> > From: matt stannard [stannardmatt at hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:19 PM
> > To: edebate at anumbersgame.net; edebate at ndtceda.com; Edwards, Richard
> > Subject: RE: [eDebate] Error in team points calculation leads to NDT outround seeding errors
> >
> > Someone want to clarify or verify?
> >
> > mjs
> >
> > > From: edebate at anumbersgame.net
> > > Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:28:50 -0700
> > > To: edebate at ndtceda.com; Richard_Edwards at baylor.edu
> > > Subject: [eDebate] Error in team points calculation leads to NDT outround seeding errors
> > >
> > > Cumulative results sheets at the NDT often misstate team points by a
> > > small amount, possibly due to a bug in Tab Room on the PC (TRPC). This
> > > has created incorrect seeding in NDT elimination rounds at least
> > > thrice in the past five years.
> > >
> > > The following seeds should have been swapped:
> > >
> > > 2009
> > > 28 Berkeley BG
> > > 29 Towson JM
> > >
> > > 2007
> > > 5 Northwestern BW
> > > 6 Southern Cal IS
> > >
> > > 2005
> > > 23 Emory CG
> > > 24 Dartmouth BeM
> > >
> > > For more details, see: http://repository.anumbersgame.net/wiki/TeamPointsBug
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > eDebate mailing list
> > > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com
> > > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate
> >
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