[eDebate] [CEDA-L] Reply to Chief

Alfred Snider alfred.snider
Sat May 9 12:17:29 CDT 2009


I have no intention to engage your hateful tirade in any way.

It is shameful for a communication professional to conduct himself in 
this way.

Alfred Snider AKA Tuna



scottelliott at grandecom.net wrote:
> Ya know what Tuna, Fuck you.
>
> I mean seriously, this is fucking ridiculous. And with all sincerity,  
> fuck off.
>
> Let's talk about Idaho , Nationals and OU.
>
> As usual, I will state my props at the beginning. I coach at a small  
> program. I coach by myself. My budget is next to nothing. I voted for  
> Idaho and advocated for Idaho. It would have been cheaper for us to  
> drive to Oklahoma. I am frankly jealous of Oklahoma--not Jackie or his  
> program...but the entire state of Oklahoma educational system. Yes,  
> that is how poor my state is, we are so poor, we are jealous of a  
> state that is known for mud storms and tornadoes. I hope my program  
> goes to five to ten National Tournaments at the Universisty of Oklahoma.
>
> But, and, if you did not get it the first time, you don't know what  
> you are fucking talking about and, as usual, you are wrong, so fuck off.
>
> I told my team and I told my boss that there are times when you make  
> decisions for a higher purpose. Yeah, that's right, sometimes people  
> make decsions because they know other human beings will benefit. I  
> speak only for myself. But I can tell you I made an initial decision  
> to vote for Idaho State as the CEDA National Site for three major  
> reasons: 1) It is a small program-which is what CEDA is supposed to  
> recognize, so, fuck off; 2) there was an opportunity to secure the  
> long term financial stability of a regional program, what the fuck!!  
> are you retarded or crazy or high?, you pick which one, because this  
> is HUGE; and 3) it was support a region of CEDA that has been  
> ill-served by CEDA since the time of your abysmal leadership. It had  
> nothing to do with OU, and in fact, it was a counter-intuitive  
> decision. I will add, I think this was most likely the reason many  
> within the community chose to bite the collective bullet and go. So,  
> the original decision was made for very good reasons by people that  
> actually particpAte in this organization. If you don't like it, may I  
> suggest two things: 1) show up at the summer business meetings or 2)  
> fuck off.
>
> Now, in poker, we all know that you should not base your decisions on  
> the turn of the cards after the fact. But, in this case, we should  
> look at the results. I know you have been around the block for forty  
> years. i have been around the block for close to 30. The tournament at  
> Idaho State, except for the weather and  distance of rooms, was  
> absolutely awesome. It was THE model of a CEDA National TOurnament.  
> The final round literally brought me to tears. I was so proud of the  
> two teams representing CEDA. The hospitality was awesome. I was  
> fortunate enough to be on the plane back to Dallas with the Idaho  
> State benefactor,/tournament subsidizer. I and my kids  gushed, I  
> mean, really gushed, at how happpy we were about the tournament. We  
> loved it.
>
> So, you coming out from your "World's Debate" hole---what's the topic  
> of them moment, weather football should be soccer or American  
> football?---and knock a tournament that you did not fucking attend is  
> just ridiculous. And, somebody ought to call your ass out on it.  
> Ironically, it is one of the biggest critics of CEDA that is doing it.
>
> The so-called small field in CEDA was not the result of it being  
> hosted  at a Moutain region. At best, OU would have genrated maybe 30  
> extra teams. The reason f or the small field is all the fuck-ups  
> within CEDA that can be laid DIRECTLY at YOUR FEET. You Tuna, yes,  
> YOU, pushed for a merger with NDT Policy. Your fucking "House of  
> Reason" was and is a House of Cards. The direction of CEDA was  
> determined by YOUR administration. Like a douche, you have run away to  
> "World's," leaving others to clean up your fucking mess.  Then you  
> have the gall to chime in every now and then on how this organization  
> is run. Fuck you. You may have a right to criticize. But I have the  
> history and ability to call your ass out. I think it absolutely  
> ridiculous for anybody within CEDA to take your comments seriously on  
> the issue of OUR national tournamnet when you are not an active  
> memeber and you did not attend the busness meeting nor the tournament.  
> Go back to spreading your shit in Parly land.
>
>
> Scott Elliott
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Darren Elliott <delliott at kckcc.edu>:
>
>   
>> I will justify my discussion of budgets in my response to Justin.   
>> His arguments have merit and I will give them the attention they  
>> deserve by writing an appropriate post to him.  I dont think it was  
>> a pot shot or a low blow.
>>
>> As for Idaho State your all-knowing arrogance of what the right  
>> decision was regarding CEDA this year wreaks of ignorance about the  
>> process and is mean-spirited Tuna.  THIS President did not make a  
>> unilateral decision about where to host Nationals.  2 bids were  
>> brought forward.  I solicited the OU bid heavily from Jackie.  I  
>> loved the OU Nats.  Given my penchant for driving to tournaments, I  
>> supported the OU bid.  But I allowed BOTH to be presented to the  
>> Executive Council in Dallas at the summer meeting.  Were you there?   
>> Did you watch on the web?  I cant remember.  The Executive Council  
>> voted for Idaho State for a number of reasons which I am sure you  
>> couldnt care less about--afterall its all about supporting your own  
>> right?  I mean I love Jackie too and I know hes one of yours but  
>> Jesus H, dude, take off the blinders.   This was not a personal  
>> decision and Im sure it did less to erode confidence in CEDA  
>> leadership than many past decisions where programs not only didnt go t
>> o CEDA but left altogether.
>>
>> For those interested in transparency and not just in it for the fight:
>> 1. Your Executive Council voted for Idaho State for among other  
>> reasons, a ridiculous amount of financial support
>> 2.  A donor at a program who wanted the program he endowed to host  
>> CEDA so he could kick in a load of money and support
>> 3.  A Region that consistently supports CEDA in attendance but had  
>> NEVER had the chance to host the National Tournament.  Regional  
>> Diversity good judge!
>> 4.  A presentation by Sarah that should be modeled by any potential  
>> host.  Her commitment, presentation materials, and abilty to provide  
>> amenities most tournaments only dream of was very compelling.
>> 5.  Other reasons were elucidated as well and the EC was  
>> overwhelmingly impressed.
>>
>> I dont think anyone should have to justify that decision, but when  
>> someone who barely even supports CEDA anymore begins taking shots at  
>> a program that worked their asses off to provide one of the best  
>> Nationals in memory, it is annoying.  The only bad decision was  
>> those who chose not to come because it was in Pocatello.
>>
>> chief
>>
>>     
>>>>> edebate-bounces at www.ndtceda.com 05/08/09 4:58 PM >>>
>>>>>           
>> Just a couple of points.
>>
>> 1. Taking pot shots at KSU because of their budget is a low blow. Shame.
>> I notice Justin did not bring up ****.
>>
>> 2. I understand that Sarah and ISU did a great job hosting, they did
>> nice work but could not change the location, but it was a bad decision
>> to do it there, ignored a strong bid from Oklahoma with lots of
>> financial support, and resulted in a very small field. It is these kinds
>> of personal decisions that have eroded community trust in CEDA
>> presidents. Vermont did not go because of financial considerations and a
>> very young team. We would probably have gone to Oklahoma.
>>
>> 3. Spare us the humor and stick to the issues.
>>
>> Vote no.
>>
>> Tuna
>>
>> --
>> Alfred C. Snider aka Tuna
>> Edwin Lawrence Professor of Forensics
>> University of Vermont
>> Huber House, 475 Main Street, UVM, Burlington, VT 05405 USA
>> Global Debate Blog http://globaldebateblog.blogspot.com
>> Debate Central http://debate.uvm.edu
>> World Debate Institute http://debate.uvm.edu/wdi/
>> World Debate Institute Blog http://worlddebateinstitute.blogspot.com
>> 802-656-0097 office telephone
>> 802-656-4275 office fax
>>
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>>
>>     
>
>
>
>
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>   


-- 
Alfred C. Snider aka Tuna
Edwin Lawrence Professor of Forensics
University of Vermont
Huber House, 475 Main Street, UVM, Burlington, VT 05405 USA
Global Debate Blog http://globaldebateblog.blogspot.com
Debate Central http://debate.uvm.edu
World Debate Institute http://debate.uvm.edu/wdi/
World Debate Institute Blog http://worlddebateinstitute.blogspot.com
802-656-0097 office telephone
802-656-4275 office fax




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